Trying to date a really insecure girl

[fballer11]

Recently I have been "spitting my game" at this one girl who has pretty bad self esteem. She says comments that are ridiculous.

Many girls do this to get compliments, but my friends and I are pretty sure she really thinks these destructive thoughts.

And she's a hottie too.

According to Steve, I should become more confident myself, something I need to work on. But I find the "work on yourself" thing only really works effectively if you spend lots of time with that person.

any tips?

[ScottLee]

My question is: why are you wanting to spend time with an insecure girl?

[Matthew Shea]

Exactly. If she's stuck in a self-destructive cycle, let her go. That's not a problem that you, as a casual suitor, are equipped to deal with. Her parents, close friends and relatives would be in a much better position to effect a change in her. If you're genuinely concerned, mention the issue to either a good friend of hers or a trusted adult, such as a counselor or teacher. Let them raise the issue if they share your concern.

[StarFish]

I must agree with Matthew, unless you're a close friend there isn't a lot you can do. Even if you are a close friend, it isn't your job to make her a secure person. So you may want to pursue other chicks because she could become, as I've seen it put here, toxic.

[Angela]

One thing you might want to remember about dating people who have low self-esteem: they don't want to belong to any club that would have them as a member!

Whatever you to do to prove to her that she's worthy, it will never be enough. In fact, it will be proof to her that something's wrong with you for trying to convince her of her own value. Then, staying with you will be more proof to her of her own lack of value, which she requires, so she'll marry you. Your children will look up at you both with awe and disgust, but they'll probably carry your process on, one way or another. And so on. One day you'll look up and wonder how you ended up in this incredible cycle of mayhem. Maybe you'll think to yourself, "I only ever wanted to help her!"

Is it possible that you derive a sense of your own value from making others see theirs?

[ticktockclok]

Ehh... dump her.

[Trina]

So, since you don't like the insecure part I am assuming you only want to date her because she is hot (correct me if I am wrong). Is the way she looks worth dealing with the drama, because there is nothing you can do to change her self esteem if she doesn't want it. People need to find confidence in themselves on their own or it isn't real. I wouldn't bother. Looks are important, but personality is more important.

[edwardmccaughan]

I've been hitting the same problem too, low self esteem girls who end up being more hassle than they're worth and trying to help them not working.

But I refuse to accept that the only answer to a situation is "give up and get as far away as possible"

especially since that would mean writing off about 75% of the population as useless to me-guys, girls, old, young, pretty, ugly, I get the hottest, toughest, smartest people tell me they're shy around stangers all the time.

I have more than my own fair share of messed up emotional problems, but I have people who help, that if they hadn't told me the truth I would be a hell of a lot worse than I am now.

To start with better question might be "how do you convince someone to listen to the help you're trying to give them when they don't want to listen?"

How do you get someone to listen when they refuse to believe its their problem? ("why do these things keep happening to me?", "Men are all bastards" "girls never sleep with nice guys))

[Angela]

Originally Posted by edwardmccaughan

To start with better question might be "how do you convince someone to listen to the help you're trying to give them when they don't want to listen?"

How do you get someone to listen when they refuse to believe its their problem? ("why do these things keep happening to me?", "Men are all bastards" "girls never sleep with nice guys))

Still another question: "Why do I want to convince someone to listen to the help I'm trying to give them when they don't want to listen?"

It might be time for you to rethink who exactly has the problem.

[edwardmccaughan]

:-p

But yeah, I think I know what you mean. The faults we see in other people are usually the ones we have ourselves and all that.

I want to help because they very rarely manage to deal with their problems by themselves. Its not that what I tell them is wrong (it might be, it might not be. but given that what they tell themselves is already wrong, at least it'll be a change of scenery), they just run away from their problems instead of dealing with them (and a hundred

Why do I think it has to be me that does it?

Because:
1-no one else will do it
2-I'm a nice person
3-I'm very very stupid.

2 and 3 combine to cause me no end of grief. No good deed goes unpunished ;-)

[elainevdw]

Originally Posted by edwardmccaughan

I've been hitting the same problem too, low self esteem girls who end up being more hassle than they're worth and trying to help them not working.

But I refuse to accept that the only answer to a situation is "give up and get as far away as possible"

especially since that would mean writing off about 75% of the population as useless to me-guys, girls, old, young, pretty, ugly, I get the hottest, toughest, smartest people tell me they're shy around stangers all the time.

I have more than my own fair share of messed up emotional problems, but I have people who help, that if they hadn't told me the truth I would be a hell of a lot worse than I am now.

To start with better question might be "how do you convince someone to listen to the help you're trying to give them when they don't want to listen?"

How do you get someone to listen when they refuse to believe its their problem? ("why do these things keep happening to me?", "Men are all bastards" "girls never sleep with nice guys))

Perhaps the reason you're only finding hot but insecure girls is because you're slightly insecure yourself, and want someone who will always need you because you can "save" them from themselves?

If you keep looking and working to attracts hot, confident girls, it will happen. There are plenty of us out there.

Honestly, I have to agree with the majority of posts here. I find insecure and indecisive people really frustrating/annoying and limit my time around them as much as possible. This is in contrast to my teens, when I was slightly needy and surrounded myself with even needier people who wanted me in their lives to help them with their problems.

Granted, I have to give props to my boyfriend for kicking me out of the habit of being needy and self-destructive. But as a mature adult (not an emo teenager) with the choice of what kind of relationship you're getting yourself into, why would you choose a project when you could choose a partner?

[edwardmccaughan]

you're only finding hot but insecure girls

Sadly, this isn't limited to just sexual relationship (or hot girls for that matter). But that is one of the main contexts I'll admit.

is because you're slightly insecure yourself, and want someone who will always need you because you can "save" them from themselves?

Yeah, I'm fairly certain you're right on that one. I made the mistake of trying to help someone without an invitation (they had "why do these things keep happening to me" on their msn screenname. I called them on it.). The resulting conversation was......educational.

If you keep looking and working to attracts hot, confident girls, it will happen. There are plenty of us out there.

You're not the first person to tell me this and its something I'm coming to realise myself. The only problem is the insecure people seem to hugely outnumber the insane ones (so called normal people are usually anything but) and so far have always been somehow unavailible (have long term relationships, are 40 year old guys or have been dead for 2000 years) although at least then they made great friends.

I'd like to find something a bit more proactive that sitting around twidding my thumbs until the right girl comes along.

(ok, so I keep switching between the boy-girl relationship context and just general friend context. I never said I'd be coherent)

Honestly, I have to agree with the majority of posts here.

its getting a little surreal. Everything people tell me or other people here is stuff that's been appearing elsewhere in the mistakes I make in day to day life.
*shakes fist at the sky* damn you tao!

Thanks guys

edward

[edwardmccaughan]

actually, I just remembered a good example-that what you see in other people is really a reflection of yourself issue.

I was going to say that exact thing to a girl the other day who was bitching about how another girl was such a ♥♥♥♥♥, but didn't since I couldn't think of a good way to casually drop an hour long physcology lesson into the conversation and I knew what reaction I'd get if I did.

Even when you tell me I'm doing it I can feel myself getting that same reaction, wanting to argue and be right all the time even when I know you're right. Except one valuable thing I've learnt is when to listen to other people (as long as I know I can trust they're right) even if it hurts to listen.

anyway. no particularly coherent point there either. Well, thats the interent for you...

[stacey]

We don't exactly live in a perfect world, but yet people are always trying to find perfection. Isn't that funny? Why do people complain so much about things they cannot control or change. Move on or stick with it. Either way, make a decision and deal with it. If being at peace is more important than being right then, fine. If you feel that being right is more important than being at peace, great. Maybe you are one of those people that believe being right is just as important as being at peace and that's okay too. My advice, life is too short to worry about it, but you have to make a decision about what's more important for you!

[Erock]

You obviously don't want a relationship, and that's okay. Society trys to tell people that seeing someone based on looks alone is wrong, but it's not. The important thing though is that she is aware of this too. If she thinks the relationship is more then just a good time, and you don't, that's some serious trouble, especially with an insecure girl.

Two options:

1. You are completely honest. You just want a physical relationship, nothing more.

2. You let her go. You are a high quality guy who wants a relationship, and looks alone are not enough for you.

Good luck
Erock




Looks are important, but you my friend, are a high quality guy, and looks alone are not enough.

[elainevdw]

Originally Posted by edwardmccaughan

You're not the first person to tell me this and its something I'm coming to realise myself. The only problem is the insecure people seem to hugely outnumber the insane ones (so called normal people are usually anything but) and so far have always been somehow unavailible (have long term relationships, are 40 year old guys or have been dead for 2000 years) although at least then they made great friends.

Keep in mind that you're only perceiving your own social circle. It's kind of weird, but as you start changing aspects of yourself, you might notice that there are new people around you who exhibit those same behaviors you've been focusing on personally.

I think it actually works both ways. You can either become more confident, and then you find more confident people around you. Or, you find a way to surround yourself with confident people, and you in turn become confident.

But at the moment, it sounds kind of like you enjoy the psychology of it (even though it's simultaneously frustrating). Have you considered getting a degree in psychology and becoming a therapist? That might fulfill this need of yours without you having to surround yourself socially with needy people -- just professionally.

Also, though it's satisfying to think that nobody is "normal," I disagree. That sort of outlook may even be part of the trouble you're having. If you don't believe anyone is truly well-adjusted, and that normal-seeming people are really insane beneath it all, then maybe you'd rather pursue insecure people because they're the lesser of the two evils?

Originally Posted by edwardmccaughan

its getting a little surreal. Everything people tell me or other people here is stuff that's been appearing elsewhere in the mistakes I make in day to day life.
*shakes fist at the sky* damn you tao!

LOL, I wouldn't classify this as a mistake. As you said about your MSN conversation, consider it "educational." I would guess that most of us who are giving you this advice have had such educational experiences in the past ourselves. For me, such relationships were worthwhile for a time, just ultimately unsustainable, because I realized I wanted more than that particular dynamic, the saved-savior sort of partnership.

[zkhan10]

i haven't read everyone's replies on here fully, but the person above me has a fair enough answer.
however, i believe that if you really do care about that person, regardless of anything you will always do what's best for them, as well as you, and the relationship. Use your best judgements and choice of words. Best thing to have is a positive, yet agreeable attitude to an apapropriate extent. Remember to keep your head out of the box at all times and don't let her shove words down your throat. Don't let her make you what she wants to see you as, but show her it's ok to be who you are. Or just don't let her get rubbed off on to you. Regardless of you, yourself being insecure or not, everytime she says something out of line, or puts herself down, and when you know for a fact that it's not true, remind her that we are only people.
We see(or like to) what we want to see, when we want to see.
There's no one, and nothing that can be done about it but just us realizing it oursef. We are our obstacles.
Lol sorry, if i said anything that didn't make much sense, it'd late, and i'm heading to bed.
good luck to y'all.



p.s. don't listen to all those people saying ohh dump her blah blah, and it's not your problem, and let her deal with her problems and stuff. If you care about a person enough, you'll do whatever it takes. Alotta people might disagree with me and say, that's not what love is about, and this isn't what love is about. You know, if we take everything out of it, then what DO we have left to define love as....nothing? yea meaning if there's no one, or nothing good enough to define love, then we might as well make belief that what all we know is what love is. Just because something isn't true, doesn't mean we can't believe in it. But then again, i'm not even sure this is a romantic relationship...or it is iunno. it prolly is, i'm just sleepy. k night. ....i just wrote a whole story. sigh.

[Cavelier]

I found the girl of my dreams, minus her incredibly deep insecurities. I was strong and confident I could take on the world. I knew that she would see things differently after I relentlessly reassured her that she was great. I loved that girl for four years. Got married. But in the end it didn't matter. When she got "triggered" by anything that made her think of her insecurities she would break down. Eventually attempting suicides in the most sincere ways. My inner strength dwindled and I became as insecure, if not more so then her. She stopped believing in our love and stopped trusting me. She lost respect for me one day when I switched rolls with her and asked her for reassurance.

We divorced and my ex-friend took her. He's using pot and alcohol to fix her.


I realized that Even though she had everything i wanted in a woman, it was doomed from the beginning. I had to walk on egg shells to avoid her triggers. and even then it didn't matter. No one changes unless they want to or their role in life changes.

Now i spend my time doing what i have to to be a confidant person, trying not to think about what went wrong with the love I had.

In retrospect I would've realized she needed to get it out of her system before committing with her.

[ssandra]

From another perspective...

When I met my husband I was beyond insecure. I had panic attacks whenever I had to interact with people I didn't know, or had to do something new.

He was extremely secure, and kep reassuring me how he thinks I am pretty, perfect, wonderful etc.

One thing that has helped me very much is that he never enabled me. He didn't walk on eggshells or was careful. When he hurt my senstive feelings he told me to get over it.. Sounds harsh; but it worked...

Another thing that was key to this is that I was willing to change and work on it. Without that; nothing would have happend.

[brendannz]

I wouldn't say low self esteem a thing that should prevent you from dating her, I think everybody has issues of some kind and also over-inflated self esteem can cause a lot of destructive behaviour as well.. I think being humble is a good quality..

But from what you've siad it sounds like you want to date her because she's a hottie (but you didn't say much about it)

I think, just realise that you cannot change people, and it's rude to try. So the insecure/ stupid things she says out loud, how do they affect you? knowing that she's not going to change? Well she might change, but you won't be able to change her..