how do you get a guy to become interested?

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by James81

I find someone who is authentic and congruent very sexy. I find fake and manipulative people a complete turn off.

Totally. Me too.

[lonelyfella]

Originally Posted by James81

Oh, I never said it didn't work.

It's just manipulative and self-destructive. That's all.

Okay, you have to explain to me why it's manipulative. She's not manipulating a guy who isn't interested in a relationship into sticking around because a guy who isn't interested in anything other than sex won't stick around. It doesn't increase the chances of those guys getting into a long-term relationship, it eliminates them completely.

Now there probably will be some guys who will REALLY want to screw her and are patient enough to wait, but they won't be manipulated into a relationship. They'd most likely leave shortly after they have sex.

Originally Posted by ssandra

You should respect your ex-gf more, not less, because she owns up to her sexuality. She knows what she wants, and knows how to get it.

Why is having sex (early) equal to loss in respect?

Why would she gain more respect if she had waited? I truly am asking, because I do not understand.

If it is a mutual understanding on the first few dates that it's a purely sexual encounter, then no, I wouldn't lose respect for a woman who has sex early. She has a sexual need that needs to be filled, he does too, and they're both attracted to each other. Cut the BS and get straight to it, nothing wrong with that.

Now in the case of my ex, I knew early on that she wasn't in it for just a purely sexual experience. She wanted something long-term. I on the other hand, wasn't thinking long-term at that moment. Then we slept together after the third date.

I could have easily not called her back and she would've been crushed. However, I did see some potential and I'm not mean enough to do something like that so I continued seeing her. It actually lasted over a year before I ended it.

The reason I lost a bit of respect for her is because she left herself so vulnerable. If I was a jerk, I could have easily used her and left her feeling worthless.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by lonelyfella

Now in the case of my ex, I knew early on that she wasn't in it for just a purely sexual experience. She wanted something long-term. I on the other hand, wasn't thinking long-term at that moment. Then we slept together after the third date.

I could have easily not called her back and she would've been crushed. However, I did see some potential and I'm not mean enough to do something like that so I continued seeing her. It actually lasted over a year before I ended it.

The reason I lost a bit of respect for her is because she left herself so vulnerable. If I was a jerk, I could have easily used her and left her feeling worthless.

So; let me refrase so I am sure to understand you correctly.

A person who is sure enough of themselves to leave themselves vulnerable deserves less respect than somebody who is closed of for at least 3 months before being vulnerable?

Is this what you are saying?

The fact that you could have been a jerk and used her does not mean she is to be respected less... it means that the potential jerk potentially should be respected less...

[James81]

Originally Posted by lonelyfella

Okay, you have to explain to me why it's manipulative. She's not manipulating a guy who isn't interested in a relationship into sticking around because a guy who isn't interested in anything other than sex won't stick around. It doesn't increase the chances of those guys getting into a long-term relationship, it eliminates them completely.

Now there probably will be some guys who will REALLY want to screw her and are patient enough to wait, but they won't be manipulated into a relationship. They'd most likely leave shortly after they have sex.

It's manipulative to the guys who are worth a damn (the ones who will actually stick around), not to the ones who will hump and dump. In fact, she's being more real and authentic with the guys who will use her than with the ones who won't.

Why? Because at any time where SHE wants to have sex, has been willing to have sex in the past, and chooses not to have sex to encourage a particular outcome (seeing if a guy will stick around), that's the definition of manipulation.

And I just don't understand why a girl would do it. If a girl will sleep with someone on a first date, but purposely holds off on other guys to see if they'll stick around...well, that's just not congruent. I mean, it's one thing if she holds off on ALL guys for a while to see if they stick around (that's not manipulative because it's congruent and consistent)...but to sleep with guys she's not interested in, but hold off on the ones she IS interested in? There's no consistency there and it just screams "Me using sex is a tool to build a relationship" despite whether she thinks it's there to weed guys out or not.

[lonelyfella]

Originally Posted by ssandra

So; let me refrase so I am sure to understand you correctly.

A person who is sure enough of themselves to leave themselves vulnerable deserves less respect than somebody who is closed of for at least 3 months before being vulnerable?

Is this what you are saying?

The fact that you could have been a jerk and used her does not mean she is to be respected less... it means that the potential jerk potentially should be respected less...

Yeah but don't you see, if she waits for 90 days (that number is just an example btw), she leaves herself much less vulnerable because the guy who waits is serious about a relationship. So she won't be crushed and feel used if he leaves right after because mostly likely, that won't happen.

And yes, the jerk who does sleep with her and never calls back, does deserve less respect. That's why I refer to him as a jerk.

And honestly, to me, it's not a big deal if she sleeps early with someone she cares about. I wouldn't say I would lose a lot of respect for her, just be a bit disappointed that she didn't safeguard herself from potentially being used. I will, however, gain more respect if she does set a standard where the guy waits. As I mentioned about my ex, it wasn't one of the reasons I broke up with her, and if things were going great, I'm sure it wouldn't have affected the relationship.

Originally Posted by James81

It's manipulative to the guys who are worth a damn (the ones who will actually stick around), not to the ones who will hump and dump. In fact, she's being more real and authentic with the guys who will use her than with the ones who won't.

Why? Because at any time where SHE wants to have sex, has been willing to have sex in the past, and chooses not to have sex to encourage a particular outcome (seeing if a guy will stick around), that's the definition of manipulation.

And I just don't understand why a girl would do it. If a girl will sleep with someone on a first date, but purposely holds off on other guys to see if they'll stick around...well, that's just not congruent. I mean, it's one thing if she holds off on ALL guys for a while to see if they stick around (that's not manipulative because it's congruent and consistent)...but to sleep with guys she's not interested in, but hold off on the ones she IS interested in? There's no consistency there and it just screams "Me using sex is a tool to build a relationship" despite whether she thinks it's there to weed guys out or not.

But she's not manipulating the guy who cares to stick around though. If he truly cares, he would stick around regardless and I'm sure his feelings toward her won't increase if he waits either.

The purpose of the wait is just to safeguard herself from sleeping with a guy who will use her when she has strong feelings for him. When women (well, most women) have feelings for a man and has sex with him, it ceases to be referred to as simply "sex" and it becomes to them "love making". Now for a guy she's not interested in but is attracted to, she will have sex with him and probably not feel a thing when they don't speak afterward. But if she is interested and has feelings for a man and she makes love to them, she will be crushed afterward if he doesn't call back. In this instance, she's giving her body and heart to him and he treats her like just another quick lay.

So it's not some silly game she's playing to get the guy more interested in her. It's meant to protect herself and her feelings for giving her whole self (body and heart) to a man who doesn't appreciate her. A man who truly cares will understand that and he will wait. He will wait impatiently, but he will still wait because he feels she's worth it.

[James81]

Originally Posted by lonelyfella

If he truly cares,

Bingo!

The language of manipulation.

"Hey, I'm not willing to take a risk, so, instead, what I'm going to do is hold back to protect myself. If YOU truly care about me, then you'll accept me holding back from you."

By using this to weed out guys, she's manipulating the few guys that might actually care.

Granted, they'll probably stick around, but that doesn't make it any less manipulation.

[lonelyfella]

Is it a bit selfish to hold back and not take a risk to protect herself?? Probably... but I still wouldn't call that "manipulating".

Also, another purpose of the wait (which is more important now that I think about it), is to see whether he really is the right man for her to give her whole self to. You can't tell enough about a man through the first few dates, you have to spend weeks and even months with him. Only then can you see his true personality.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by lonelyfella

I wouldn't say I would lose a lot of respect for her, just be a bit disappointed that she didn't safeguard herself from potentially being used.

A person having sex when they want to have sex doesn't sound like "being used", to me.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by lonelyfella

Yeah but don't you see, if she waits for 90 days (that number is just an example btw), she leaves herself much less vulnerable because the guy who waits is serious about a relationship. So she won't be crushed and feel used if he leaves right after because mostly likely, that won't happen.

And yes, the jerk who does sleep with her and never calls back, does deserve less respect. That's why I refer to him as a jerk.

And honestly, to me, it's not a big deal if she sleeps early with someone she cares about. I wouldn't say I would lose a lot of respect for her, just be a bit disappointed that she didn't safeguard herself from potentially being used. I will, however, gain more respect if she does set a standard where the guy waits. As I mentioned about my ex, it wasn't one of the reasons I broke up with her, and if things were going great, I'm sure it wouldn't have affected the relationship.

I think it is really sad that this type of double standard still exists today (I bet you´d never say to any of your male friends to wait, otherwise he might feel used?)

People who tie repect to the having or not having of sex when it comes to women (men as well, now I think about it, only usually the other way around) are people who still don´t get it. Sex is just physical excersise* that you do with 2 or more people (or even alone )

It changes when you start to love somebody, yes. But that doesn´t mean that you cannot have sex before that happens!

Ultimately it is your choice.. if you saw her as dating material, why didn´t YOU wait?? Do you respect yourself less for this?


* I´m still looking for a gym to join, next to my workouts at home

[James81]

Originally Posted by ssandra

* I´m still looking for a gym to join,

I have my own private gym.

[songwriter]

well, it really depends on how that guy is and what does he like...

if it was me I would worry if you're really more mature than your age. If you showed me that, maybe with some deep conversation or so, that would do.

But every guy's different.

[Plays With Life]

Some guys also like "girlishness" and immaturity in a girl.

[songwriter]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

Totally. Me too.

Actually everybody is turned-off by that...
I guess! sometimes I wonder when someone breaks up and says "he/she was so manipulative..." yet they spent months or years together... so maybe not... for some is not a turn-off at all, yet they complain about it...

[Plays With Life]

I actually find a criminal, seductress approach to the world very sexy in a woman