Is lesbianism a choice?

[siryessir08]

It's pretty much established that many gay guys are born that way. They were simply never attracted to girls.

Were lesbians born that way though? All the lesbians I know (4, so far) had relationships with men in the past that they enjoyed, and they were attracted to men (at least at the time, and 3 still did occasionally enjoy a male).

Then they experimented with an intimate relationship with another girl, and decided they like girls better.

So the lesbians I've talked to all made the choice to be gay.

Just curious.

[MidasGirl]

My take on this (and this would include redgarding gay men as well) is that there is a continuum. There are people that are 105% homosexual/lesbian, they couldn't be attracted to the opposite sex if their life depended on it.

Then the sliding scale goes all the way down to the percentages where some might consider sex with the opposite sex, but they are really just not that impressed by them. Then it goes all the way down to people that are heterosexual but wouldn't mind trying it out with same sex. This is where bi-sexuality lies.

Then of course there is the 0%, or 100% heterosexual where they'd punch you if you even insinuated they hook up with the same sex. I've seen men that were happily married to women but were interested in gay sex (most famous case is Ted Haggard), and I've seen heterosexual women that had no interest in having a relationship with a woman but didn't mind hooking up just for fun.

[drakecatz]

It seems these days there is a lot of just trying the opposite sex for the fun of it.

In general, I think lesbians are born lesbian. It can veri in the amount of time it takes to "own" that or not. And all the lesbian women I know did try it with men first, out of social pressures. They were not confused by it.

[MiBeloved]

I think it is a complex issue since all sorts of influences come into play from the time a person is born.

How about taking it case by case?

[aabbcc]

Originally Posted by siryessir08

All the lesbians I know (4, so far) had relationships with men in the past that they enjoyed, and they were attracted to men (at least at the time, and 3 still did occasionally enjoy a male).

Sounds to me like these women are bisexual, not lesbian.

[Dreamline]

I agree it's complex but I know many more gay men that were definitely born gay, than gay women. Most of the women I know that are lesbians, no longer interested in men at all, turned that way after many failed relationships with men.

I'm grateful my life has never been sexually complicated.

Jennifer

[MiBeloved]

Originally Posted by Dreamline

Most of the women I know that are lesbians, no longer interested in men at all, turned that way after many failed relationships with men.
I'm grateful my life has never been sexually complicated.

Jennifer

Failed relationships with men seems to be one of the big factors in many cases. Do men understand the relationship needs of women or are men stuck in their own narrow perspective?

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by MiBeloved

Failed relationships with men seems to be one of the big factors in many cases.

Aren't you mixing up cause and effect here? It might as well be that those relationships failed because the women are lesbian.

Do men understand the relationship needs of women or are men stuck in their own narrow perspective?

Yes, and vice versa (change men to women and women to men in the sentence).

I know some lesbian women too. Some were clear quite young they were only interested sexually in women. Others found out later. Usually because of cultural pressures: homosexuality was taboo and therefore not an option.

That also goes for men BTW. I know a man who was married, raised kids, then finally divorced and acknowledged his gay side.

[Dreamline]

Originally Posted by MiBeloved

Failed relationships with men seems to be one of the big factors in many cases. Do men understand the relationship needs of women or are men stuck in their own narrow perspective?

Or are women really bad at choosing appropriate mates?

Jennifer

[MiBeloved]

Originally Posted by Dreamline

Or are women really bad at choosing appropriate mates?

Jennifer

Might be combinations of these factors.

[panda0920]

It can be a choice. A lot of women I know, who are lesbians, have had one or two, maybe more bad relationships with men and think 'Hey a woman is more compassionate, I'll be more safe over there'.

They actually have bisexual tendicies, not truly being a lesbian.

Lesbians are like gay men, born that way.

It could make the choice to be with a man, but that doesn't mean I'd like it or ever want it. I was just born with the attraction to females, not men.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by Dreamline

Or are women really bad at choosing appropriate mates?

Jennifer

Huh? Surely there are as many women in successful relationships as there are men, and there are as many men who have had 'unsuccessful' (by which I mean 'relationships that have ended for whatever reason') relationships as there are women. It's kind of a statistical given.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by Dreamline

I agree it's complex but I know many more gay men that were definitely born gay, than gay women. Most of the women I know that are lesbians, no longer interested in men at all, turned that way after many failed relationships with men.

I'm grateful my life has never been sexually complicated.

Jennifer

I think that a lot more women are bisexual than men, or at least more women are aware / open of their bisexuality than men, which kind of makes sense. Like it's much more of a big deal if a guy dresses like a girl than if a girl dresses like a guy. Plus a 100% hetrosexual female is perfectly aware of how attractive another woman is, but a 100% hetrosexual male, usually doesn't know how attractive a guy is.

and so I'm guessing this would be why you think more women are lesbian by nurture rather than nature. Just a theory though..

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by MiBeloved

Failed relationships with men seems to be one of the big factors in many cases. Do men understand the relationship needs of women or are men stuck in their own narrow perspective?

Do even women understand clearly their own relationship needs?

It's not that easy really

[MiBeloved]

Originally Posted by brendannz

Do even women understand clearly their own relationship needs?

It's not that easy really

I agree that it is a complex issue.

[pyrogen]

OK, I'll step out on a limb and be the token bisexual.

First of all, throw out anything you learned from gay men. I pretty firmly believe that gay men didn't "choose" it any more than straight men choose what "type" they are into.

I think that men and women are so different in their sexuality, that it's not possible to learn anything about lesbians from studying gay men. It is just way, way, way too different. Women are not men.

I think that in many cases, lesbianism is a choice. For possibly 50% of women who identify as lesbian - no, I can't back up those numbers, it's a casual observation among people I know. This still leaves a lot of people who knew from the time of puberty and have *never* been attracted to men, ever - google "Kinsey Scale", these people are the Kinsey 6s. But that still leaves a lot of people who *did* choose.

I think the following:

1) Women's sexuality is more fluid than men's. In general, not just as it relates to gender.

You see this at work just in "type". Women are willing to bend "type" more where many men are very set on a specific physical type - she (or he) has to be blonde, a redhead, big boobs, small boobs, six pack, beer gut, smooth, hairy, et cetera - the person can be otherwise perfect but many men just *cannot* step outside of their physical type. This is practically burned into their "love map" in their deep subconscious.
Whereas women are able to be more flexible about what they can fall in love with. Women respond to a different set of subconscious cues and are less "visual". Many happily married women (most?) report that the man that they ultimately married was NOT their physical "type"... because we respond to other cues than appearance and anatomy; we respond to voice and smell more. And women's "type" often shifts with time. Men tend to remain pretty set in what they like.

2) Women's sexuality is more fluid about gender, too - because women are more fluid in general.

More women are genuinely bisexual than men. I've seen this over and over. Also, most bisexual women, "shift" with time in terms of what they like. This is true for every bi woman I know. One can be more attracted to men one year, more attracted to women the next year. This has happened to me. In my teens, I was mostly into guys. Then in my twenties, mostly into girls. Then my ex went through a gender change (to male) and I realized I was still attracted to him. Then I started noticing men more, after we split up. Many bisexuals (especially if we're not wired to be poly) are sequential, not concurrent. We're attracted to both genders *over our lifetime* but not necessarily *at the same time*.

3) Many *serious* bisexual women will choose *lesbian* mates rather than try dating other bisexuals


For good reason. Many women who openly identify as "bi" are either already in a relationship with a man, are polyamorous, are swingers, are "bi-curious"/experimenting or just like to have sex with women without romantic expectations.

4) Therefore, many bisexual women turn to the lesbian community - where conformity pressure is very strong.


A bisexual woman who is *at that time* more romantically inclined toward women, will often just outright identify as lesbian, because the lesbian community is even *now* not very accepting of anyone who identifies as bisexual. Bisexuals are seen as poor commitment risks because at any moment we "might go back to men". Cashing your chips in with the gay community is not just a choice related to sexuality, it is tantamount to joining a religion or a political party sometimes. You can meet partners without joining the gay community, but it's harder, and many gays/lesbians will tend to seek out the gay community when they first come out.

So, a bisexual woman who "feels lesbian that year" will just tend to say she's a lesbian.

[siryessir08]

That is another thing I've noticed.

Most women are, to some degree, bisexual.

Many men are not even open enough to honestly ask themselves whether another male is attractive or not.

Women on the other hand, are very open about such things. Most girls I know have made out with another girl at least once before.


Would anyone agree that women tend to look past physical appearance (and genitalia) more often than men? That simply connecting with another human being that they are compatible with, regardless of gender, is important?

I mean...gender is only skin deep (maybe a few more inches in certain areas of the body). In fact, gender is almost a superficial characteristic of a human being when developing an intimate relationship with them.
I have a guy friend that I've bonded so deeply with that I've found myself attracted to him at times.

[MidasGirl]

I suspect that in a couple more generations, more and more (hetero) women will go in and out of male/female relationships as it becomes less and less of a taboo.

They did an article about this recently in O magazine btw.

Why Women Are Leaving Men for Lesbian Relationships - Bisexuality - Oprah.com



..

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by siryessir08

That is another thing I've noticed.

Most women are, to some degree, bisexual.

Many men are not even open enough to honestly ask themselves whether another male is attractive or not.

Women on the other hand, are very open about such things. Most girls I know have made out with another girl at least once before.


Would anyone agree that women tend to look past physical appearance (and genitalia) more often than men? That simply connecting with another human being that they are compatible with, regardless of gender, is important?

I mean...gender is only skin deep (maybe a few more inches in certain areas of the body). In fact, gender is almost a superficial characteristic of a human being when developing an intimate relationship with them.
I have a guy friend that I've bonded so deeply with that I've found myself attracted to him at times.

I think generally, men are shopping for the best design package,, and women are shopping more for the best contents.

As well, I think a male is more turned on like a light switch, and with a female there are so many more factors involved, and it's generally more complicated, and subject to change.

Like, a male will be attracted to a girl, and still be interested in the contents, but his overactive imagination may imagine that the girls really sweet when she hasn't really done anything to demonstrate that to him, he's put her on a pedestal already.. Ideally this isn't how we should behave, but I suppose it happens..

I think women can be shallow / superficial in other ways.. like for example gold diggers.. At the same time I don't think all guys want barbie dolls, and all girls want shallow millionaires

[mirandaom]

Everything is a choice. Sometimes we choose it before birth and sometimes after. But even if you're born gay, it was still a choice.

[James81]

I don't think it's a choice. But I also don't think you are always born that way either. I think environmental factors play into it. And I mean things that happen at a very young age (think birth to 2 years old here) that influence sexuality.

[alexb5784]

I've been with both sexes, but when it comes to long-term relationships, I prefer women (I'm a girl). However, a guy I was friends with last year, really made me question my preferences. If he hadn't bee involved with someone else, I would have defintely dated him.

Now my sexuality scale is leaning more towards gay, which is comfortable for me. I just concentrate on the person and how they treat me. And of course, sexual attraction is important. When I'm attracted to men, it's most physical, but with women it's physical and mental.

Some people are 100% gay and aren't interested in the opposite sex. I can't say that I'm 100% though.