Marriage - What's the point?

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

...
All these labels of blankets and right and wrong and marriage and polyamory and all that don't matter. What matters is, who here is in love with their life and doing what they want to do? If that's you, then keep going!

At least one duck that understands me!

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Plato

People who live in awareness of danger tend to be the least fearful people.

A coward dies a thousand deaths, a hero dies once.

Somebody said that. It's quite good I think.

Living in fear is totally different of awareness of danger, no?

I think Heinlein wrote something like: 'A hero is not somebody who knows no fear. A hero fears, but does it anyway.'

[Plato]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Living in fear is totally different of awareness of danger, no?

I think Heinlein wrote something like: 'A hero is not somebody who knows no fear. A hero fears, but does it anyway.'

I've thought of a better example for you.

Jesus. He was fully aware of how cruel people can be. He never denied it. Jesus' whole message was that by embracing the possibility of people hurting you without resistance, you experience heaven. Be meek and gentle in the face of attack.

I think he was grossly foolish, but hey, that's a side note. The point I'm making is the only true Christian died on the cross. Everybody else takes the title Christian (or nowadays, just the value system of Christianity) without actually living it.

It digusts me.

Sure there are a few counter examples, but they are the exception. Most people are intellectually dishonest.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Plato

...
I think he was grossly foolish, but hey, that's a side note.

Why would that be foolish? He inspired millions of people to be their best. Not a bad result in my book.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Why would that be foolish? He inspired millions of people to be their best. Not a bad result in my book.

My argument is not with Jesus. He was great. Not because of his values, but because he created them.

What followed him was a monstrosity of lies (the idea of Hell and original sin - thanks a lot St Paul you assh0le), stagnation and depravity.

[gigij]

Originally Posted by Plato

I find it very tiresome seeing all these people who aren't aware of Dionysus.

Wow - pretentious much?

[Plato]

Originally Posted by gigij

Wow - pretentious much?

Hey, you're almost there.

If you admit (to yourself) that you're attacking me purely because you want to hurt me, that would please me. While you pretend to be objective the distaste will remain.

[gigij]

Originally Posted by Plato

Hey, you're almost there.

If you admit (to yourself) that you're attacking me purely because you want to hurt me, that would please me. While you pretend to be objective the distaste will remain.

Well I will admit, to you and myself, that I have no desire to please you. Therefore lets just leave it at mutual distaste.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by gigij

Well I will admit, to you and myself, that I have no desire to please you. Therefore lets just leave it at mutual distaste.

Aha, so close! Ok, then we'll leave it that.

[willnesbitt]

Since you seem to really not understand, ns123, let me help you. Here is the original post that started the thread. Note how I'm asking for people's opinions and perspectives not the definitive answer. I'm not saying that marriage is good or bad, but merely asking for opinions. I like to hear what others have to say in case there may be an angle I haven't considered - good or bad. If I believed marriage to be stupid, then I would say that I don't believe in marriage and that it is stupid.

So, no, there is no code to be cracked in my post. Thanks for offering your opinion on marriage...they are greatly appreciated. Did that answer your question or do you still have questions about my questioning marriage? Again, please refer to my original post. What I typed is what I meant. I have no need to beat around the bush - as you somewhat eloquently assumed.

Originally Posted by willnesbitt

I've been thinking a lot about marriage lately. Not necessarily about getting married myself, but about the institution of marriage and its purpose.

What is the purpose of marriage? Is it what a couple is supposed to do because they have been together for a certain length of time and have had sex and really enjoy being around each other everyday? Is it the logical next step...a requirement for relationships? Is it just so you can have sex without going to hell (according to Christianity)?

Why get married? Does the marriage license and the ceremony seal the deal and guarantee a long-lasting relationship? Does God require a couple to take the proper steps before he blesses their union?

These are just some things I've been wondering and was hoping to hear some other opinions/perspectives about the matter.

Look forward to your responses.

[Daffy Duck]

Another way to think of marriage is like a project.

In business with a project, you have estimates, objectives, goals, agreements, etc. People enter it with an objective and goals they want to achieve with it. And just like a business project, it requires committment and discipline to follow through and make it a success.

Many successful people in the Personal Developent field are married; Steve Pavlina, Jack Canfield, Brian Tracy, and I'll even include Will Smith because he talks a lot about personal development. There are many others that marry and there are many that never marry as well.

That's all there is to it. Marriage is no more "secure" than staying single is. Anyone can look at the divorce rate and figure that out. You have to have a commitment to growth. You can't just get married and give up personal development. That won't work.

[marinik]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Another way to think of marriage is like a project.

In business with a project, you have estimates, objectives, goals, agreements, etc. People enter it with an objective and goals they want to achieve with it. And just like a business project, it requires committment and discipline to follow through and make it a success.

Many successful people in the Personal Developent field are married; Steve Pavlina, Jack Canfield, Brian Tracy, and I'll even include Will Smith because he talks a lot about personal development. There are many others that marry and there are many that never marry as well.

That's all there is to it. Marriage is no more "secure" than staying single is. Anyone can look at the divorce rate and figure that out. You have to have a commitment to growth. You can't just get married and give up personal development. That won't work.

Yes my dear but you need both partners "owning" the business thinking and doing the same - developing, growing - taking care of the project. Sometimes one is ahead and "pulls" the other and then the other way around. But if one just stop and does not want to budge for years no matter what you do or try... communicate... well then a lot can happen.

[Daffy Duck]

Oh yes, of course, everyone involved in the project needs to do their part, just like in business, or the project will suffer. Sometimes a team member just needs to be removed or even fired if they're not doing what they're supposed to do.

[drakecatz]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Sometimes a team member just needs to be removed or even fired if they're not doing what they're supposed to do.

I know of a "squad" that "fires!" Actually, I know of two!

[JoeGoldfarb]

Two married woman posted their reasons for marriage in this thread that has been dominated by Plato and Daffy. Ns123 made a public commitment through marriage and Dreamline didnt offer a reason merely stating she and her man had a bond and so they got married. That is not a reason. She states there was no outside influence which is obviously false because marriage is an outside cultural artifact.

I found this thread interesting. The only point to marriage appears to be legal and financial reason. Love bonds can exist without a traditional, passed down cultural ceremony that serves no purpose other than to create social validity by conforming to cultural views.

I do have a question though that may merit it's own thread. Does the concept of Oneness conflict with the purpose of marriage?

[Aleksander Krstic]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Are you suggesting marriage isn't a fulfilling relationship?

There is some research that suggests married people are usually better off than those who cohabitate. I can't remember if I ever read anything comparing married people to serial monogamists/polygamists in specific. I'd expect their levels of happiness to be comparable to those who are happily married. A fulfilling relationship is a fulfilling relationship.

I wouldn't trust "research" that much.

[tintin]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Other than for legal rights recognition, none at all. You can commit to a person, forever even, without the need for one. Commitment is from the heart, not a piece of metal on a finger.
I just think marriage really complicates a situation when you want to get out(having been there I know). You are literally at the mercy of the other person to behave themselves. And if you're the one that wants out and they don't, what is their motivation to behave themselves?

Who is to say how I feel about someone now, even if I love them like hell, is how I will feel about them in 10 years? I certainly hope so, but as a realist, I know anything is possible. Humans--our nature is a need to cage ourselves!

That said, I may choose to cage myself one of these days -- and I want it to look like this: (I think weddings are dumb, but this one blew me away)


YouTube - JK Wedding Entrance Dance


..

uh i liked this one too




YouTube - JK Divorce Entrance Dance

[ar81]

Originally Posted by willnesbitt

I've been thinking a lot about marriage lately. Not necessarily about getting married myself, but about the institution of marriage and its purpose.

What is the purpose of marriage? Is it what a couple is supposed to do because they have been together for a certain length of time and have had sex and really enjoy being around each other everyday? Is it the logical next step...a requirement for relationships? Is it just so you can have sex without going to hell (according to Christianity)?

Why get married? Does the marriage license and the ceremony seal the deal and guarantee a long-lasting relationship? Does God require a couple to take the proper steps before he blesses their union?

Why should we get a stable job instead of working whenever we want, wherever we want?

If married with the proper person, marriage becomes an aid for personal growth and mutual support. You may find ocasional sex, but you won't find ocasional growth and mutual support so easily.

Also, family gives kids a sense of emotional stability (if not disfunctional).

Disfunctional families and relationships belong to the realm of mental health. It happens when non happy people get together.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by tintin

uh i liked this one too




YouTube - JK Divorce Entrance Dance

Bwaaaa ha ha ha.........That was truly hilarious.....

[LifeFirst]

Originally Posted by Plato

Nobody has ever needed to hurt you to save themselves. Hope it stays that way because you certainly can't count on morals to hold the person back.

Obviously in day to day life there is not strong enough motivation to break the social hypnosis of morality, but when reality slams home in the form of serious fear... it all goes out of the window.

And now I think about it, Anne Frank's statement is totally meaningless.

"Good at heart" could mean anything:

That people prefer pleasure to pain?
That people really do hold good intention towards others? Well a lot of good that is if they kill you anyway.

If I'm being mauled by a mad dog, the fact he "loves me really" isn't much of a consolation.

The world you live in must be something.....you sound like a puppy in a den of lions.

[Mogget]

I very recently got married... for us it boiled down to wanting to have a formal celebration of our declaration of commitment to each other and our relationship. We have also been nicely conditioned to find getting married to be a logical "next step" given our level of commitment, and a socially important ritual.

We enjoyed the ceremony, symbolism and party very much but as yet there indefinable x factor that is "being married" has not emerged - we continue very much to be the same couple we were before.

[weblily]

What is he main purpose of marriage, i think to make the relationship between two persons as such in a two family. but altimate result is to satart a new life with your life partrner is not so easy.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by jwilkins

Hi there,

When I got married, I remember it being the happiest day of my life, and I remember thinking that I felt more secure that my partner was in it for the long haul, and felt special because he was choosing to give me his name. This is just my opinion.

I have friends whose family were from the Netherlands. A few years ago there was a family reunion of all the members of this family from all over the world. My friend Lamoine was there with her live in boyfriend.

She was embarrassed when she learned that all the couples would be introduced. After the inroductions were complete she shared her fear of judgement with a group of the family who resided in the Netherlands.

They were startled that this would be an issue for her and said the only reason two people should get married was if they planned children. Other wise it was optional.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Gene

...
They were startled that this would be an issue for her and said the only reason two people should get married was if they planned children. Other wise it was optional.

I can imagine their surprise. Except in very religious circles (or royalty ) nobody cares much if you're married, live together or are single. We're pretty tolerant (sometimes indifferent).

I am curious where her judgment came from though?

[AthenaMarina]

"being able to live in the same country"
This is why we married rather than just continuing to live together.
Although we did and still do love each other. Very much. Plus he is religious so he felt a bit better about being married than just as they say living in sin.
I would have preferred to just continue living together if it was not for these things. I hate the stupid expectations on you once you are married. Like oh you MUST want kids (uh, no!) and you must change your name if you are a woman (uh, no!) and you must follow pre-scribed gender roles e.g. the woman does the cooking. Again uh no, none of those things apply in our marriage and my colleagues think it's strange & they wouldn't if we were just living together. Plus people think your parents must know about the relationship if you are married. So I would have preferred to stay just living together but I felt i didn't really have that choice at the time. We would not have been able to live in the same country if we had not married. And couldn't bare to be apart. Having said that we ARE happily married & I am happy I married HIM & he me. But I found out that I am someone who is quite happy living with someone without needing to be married. I never thought I would be but I found I was, I am. People assume I am in a more traditional relationship than I am in just cos I'm married though & I hate that. Had I a choice i.e. could we have kept living together stayed in the same country & NOT needed to be married I would not have married, ever.
I never even had a wedding and I'm quite happy about that too. Sometimes I think I want one usually I think I'd rather us spend the money on travel - which we both LOVE!

[dulaney0330]

to keep the man tied down!

[DerekH]

There is no point to marriage. It is just another way for the ego to identify with new roles. Not all marriages end up that way but it is certainly the majority.

Marriage has evolved into nothing more than a consumer niche market. Women are so in love with the idea of marriage that they are willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a ceremony that doesn't really solidify anything.

It is nothing more then the illusion of security.

I say it is an illusion since 50% of marriages fail in the U.S. Personally in my family, 4 of 6 marriages have failed. 1 that has succeeded are my parents and the other is my uncles. I really wouldn't say that my uncles marriage has succeeded since I haven't seen him in about 2 years and I haven't seen my cousin who is a year and half years old now. They only live about 20 minutes from my house. Its quite amazing what a wife will do to a husband since I used to see my uncle a few times a month.

I am currently in my third serious relationship with an awesome girl. I have been very clear with her that I will not propose a marriage to her. I feel like a marriage creates a false sense of entitlement over a woman and I would much rather win my girlfriend over day in and day out. I would never want to take her for granted.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

I can imagine their surprise. Except in very religious circles (or royalty ) nobody cares much if you're married, live together or are single. We're pretty tolerant (sometimes indifferent).

I am curious where her judgment came from though?

Her father was a fundamentalist minister and professor of divinity at one of the "name" fundamentalist universities in the states. Even though she was the family rebel who left home young and lived a life her parents disapproved of she was surprised when the family in The Netherlands were so much more liberal and loving than her birth family in the states.

Her grandfather had immigrated to the states and her assumption was that all people from the old country believed as her father believed.