Opinions on non-coercive parenting?

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by carenkh

If you're interested in exploring that thought, you might want to read Punished by Rewards by Alfie Kohn.

Like I said, this type of parenting - which is VERY mindful and "conscious" - has required a whole paradigm shift on my part. We're all much happier people.

And what do you know? In a nice bit o' timing, an unschooling friend posted this article about teenagers who were not coerced into cleaning. No mom-made consequences, no rewards... whattaya know?

Actually, I'll get the book, thanks. Not so much because I think I'll be drawn into unschooling but because I believe in educating myself from all angles and use what works for me. Right now I'm struggling to make sure my 10 year old going on 15, stays within the confines of appropriate websites when she reads and watches Japanese anime, which she lives and breathes. Forget parental control software and all that, doesn't work for a lot of sites.


As for your blogpost, I enjoyed it. so do your teenagers keep clean rooms or do they just clean every once in a while?

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

I'm not sure I have a theory of it, just some ideas. One, I might take him out into the water and let him go for a few seconds, so he could experience the danger first hand. Two, I might just give him swimming lessons so it wouldn't be so dangerous anymore. Three, I might get him a pet frog so the motivation to go over there could be removed. There are probably some others.

He had swimming lessons at that point (you start at around 5 in the Netherlands with that, but he couldn´t yet swim well) And besides.. what are you doing while he has swimming lessons, but does not yet know how to swim?

We always were catching frogs in the summer holidays, we know how they look, what they feel like etc. He just wanted to get dirty and do whatever he wanted...

He has been in the water almost his whole life, including in the deep end almost drowning when playing with my dad to show how dangerous it was...

He just didn´t see the danger at that age. I mean, he would when you would point it out to him, but he would also forget it within seconds!

That is where I think my mom did the right thing in scaring him so he wouldn´t do it again. I truly believe she has saved his life doing that.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Which is why it requires that a parent develops the sharpest "influencing skills" they can muster.

That sounds a bit like manipulation to me, with the same aim as the coercion.

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Effective consequences and rewards have to be part of parenting though. Why? They are part of life.

It seems like if consequences and rewards are part of life, the parent doesn't need to do anything. The person will experience those results from life itself, directly.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by carenkh

At 5 years old, if he had shown a propensity for doing that? I would never NOT take him across the street. Any time he expressed an interest in going across the street, I would go.

My darling little brother never "expressed" an opinion.. he´d see something shiny and he would run! The mood would strike him and he would go. No asking, no telling etc. My mom would go with him almost always when he would ask... he just wouldn´t think to ask, because that takes time. And he wants it NOW!

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by jamesbiz

Imagine how your kids will fare when they have to interact with people who grew up completely opposite of them?

I'm not sure this has anything to do with parenting strategy. Doesn't everyone encounter people who have different beliefs?

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Yes. Like take him there, and tell him he has freedom to jump in the water if he so chooses. Let him jump in and feel what it's like to almost drown. Be ready to jump in and save him. I guarantee you that would stop him. Then take him for swimming lessons so he learns how to swim safely.

Even if (and with him that would have been a big IF, I cannot count the times he fell through ice almost drowned and yet went on it again and again) my mom would have done that.. what would you have done about the road?

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Now of course at a younger age, you do have to not let your kids run around unsupervised. First off, who lets their 5 year old child be out there alone in front of a busy street? They don't even know when to jump in the street and when not to, no matter how much you teach them to look both ways.

The busy street was 2 blocks away, we had a very nice little park right in front of the house where he was allowed to play. There were always moms or older children watching us. But my brother had this nack of running away whenever they would not look for even 2 seconds!

[ssandra]

Another funny story about my baby brother from hell... (just kidding, i´m his big sis, i´m allowed to )

One time we were all shopping. My brother was always running ahead from us in the big mall which my parents didn´t like.

They decided to teach him a lesson so he wouldnt do it anymore. (after having talked to him about the dangers, asked him to stay close etc.)

We were hiding while he was ahead again... pretending to be gone. Did it scare him? Did he ever do it again? No and Yes.

It didn´t scare him, he couldn´t care less... He has always done it so my mom resorted to always holding him eventhough he wanted to walk free (while he was yougn of course).

Conclusion: some kids are just really really short term thinkers, and 2 minutes thinking ahead is already too much. Those children you have to protect against themselves by setting clear bounderies.


(of course, all this is my opinion, I respect everybody who thinks differently and would never judge them for doing so. I just have a different opinion,that´s all)

[Plays With Life]

BTW, thanks to everyone for some really interesting discussion so far!

[drakecatz]

Being forwarned is being forarmed. I don't get this. So the 2 year old learns the stove is hot by frying their fingers?

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by drakecatz

Being forwarned is being forarmed. I don't get this. So the 2 year old learns the stove is hot by frying their fingers?

Isn't that how you learned it??

My original question about being taught was about being taught behaviours. That's different than being shown things about the world.

[jamesbiz]

Originally Posted by drakecatz

Being forwarned is being forarmed. I don't get this. So the 2 year old learns the stove is hot by frying their fingers?

You know how I learned to not put metal things into the wall sockets? I was told not to do it. Worked like a charm.












Oh wait, I did it anyways and got shocked and learned to never do it. I guess the electricity fried my brian

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

That sounds a bit like manipulation to me, with the same aim as the coercion.

Influencing is not the same as manipulation. The two approaches are worlds apart. Unless you think influencing an adult is also the same as manipulation. In which case it would be a point I just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Heck, even you expressing your views here about this issue is an attempt at influencing. Maybe not consciously, but it is. Even if its "this is how I do it and I just want to share so that those who feel inclined can choose to do the same", that is still an attempt at influencing. So using your definition then, you are manipulating the people reading your opinions who may wish to try what you do.

It seems like if consequences and rewards are part of life, the parent doesn't need to do anything. The person will experience those results from life itself, directly.

If you say so. If it works for you, keep doing it.

Added:

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

I don't have kids of my own, so I can't speak from extensive experience. This is generally the way I interact with children in my life though, and it's always seemed to work fine.

BTW, I just re-read your first post and saw this part. Never mind. You are speaking from theory, not experience. Easier said than done. When you're doing it, and still have these opinions, I'll pay attention. And no, just interacting with other peoples' children does not equal raising one. Just ask all those people who think raising a dog is the same as raising a child, until they get the rude shock when they finally have kids. At least if you worked at a day-care it'd have more weight.

That said, I'm not putting your general ideas down. Some of it is good.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Influencing is not the same as manipulation. The two approaches are worlds apart. Unless you think influencing an adult is also the same as manipulation. In which case it would be a point I just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Heck, even you expressing your views here about this issue is an attempt at influencing. Maybe not consciously, but it is. Even if its "this is how I do it and I just want to share so that those who feel inclined can choose to do the same", that is still an attempt at influencing. So using your definition then, you are manipulating the people reading your opinions who may wish to try what you do.

I'd say not, because I don't have a particular objective in mind. I don't have something I'm trying to make people do or not do; there's no succeed or fail. I'm just putting something out there, then seeing what happens.

I generally do think that adults manipulate each other way too much. ie, try to control each other's behaviour.

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

If you say so. If it works for you, keep doing it.

Well what do you think about it? Does it not work that way? I'm not doing it any way right now, just thinking about it.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

Added:BTW, I just re-read your first post and saw this part. Never mind. You are speaking from theory, not experience. Easier said than done. When you're doing it, and still have these opinions, I'll pay attention.

Right. Do you have children?

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

Right. Do you have children?

Yes.

[Plays With Life]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

And no, just interacting with other peoples' children does not equal raising one. Just ask all those people who think raising a dog is the same as raising a child, until they get the rude shock when they finally have kids. At least if you worked at a day-care it'd have more weight.

Right, I certainly wasn't saying that. That's why I put that line in my original post. I'm not trying to convince anyone to do things this way - so I don't think there is a weight aspect to the ideas - they're just ideas. They're not even opinions I hold. Just an interest in the approach. I'm curious about what people think about them, from both sides.

[drakecatz]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Plays With Life

Isn't that how you learned it??

No. I was shown not to touch dangerous things.

Being a parent is all about showing and teaching and love. If we didn't do all that, the kids would be running amuck like out of control little cave people.

[kedzer]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/15/health/15mind.html?em