Violent sex

[siryessir08]

My fiance told me today that she wants to sleep with other people.

I asked her why, and she told me our sex is unsatisfying.

Once upon a time she had an abusive boyfriend, and she admitted that she kind of missed the sex. She wants violent sex. She called me a vanilla.

Naturally, I told her I couldn't trust any guy to have violent sex with her.


So about an hour ago I gave her what she wanted. I pulled her hair, scratched her till she was practically bleeding, choked her, and slapped her around while having sex.

I've never seen her enjoy herself so much.

Do I have a right to be concerned? I've looked up masochism and apparently it's not a psychological disorder anymore, but is it possible to grow much as a masochist.
The idea of submission, and in doing so, being punished, hurt, and humiliated just doesn't seem to resonate with peace, love, and personal power.
To me it appears to resonate with fear, dependence, and possibly self-loathing.

The only way it seems that I can sexually satisfy her is now is by abusing her in the bedroom.

So...what do you guys think I should do?

Should I:
1. Slap her around in the bedroom from now on
2. Tell her she's ****ed up, and that it's her problem
3. Take her to a psychologist
4. Let her sleep around
5. Dump her ass and pawn her engagement ring, and give her the annoying cat
or
6. Other

[Daffy Duck]

How do you feel? It sounds like you're not happy about it.

What do you think you should do? If you were a wiser version of yourself, what would you say?

[siryessir08]

I saw her phone buzz after posting this and saw she had a new text, from someone I don't know. Turned out to be a "trainer" she had been talking dirty with all day, and was planning on seeing tonight.

We haven't had any problems for a year now, and all of a sudden shes killing my trust, and telling me I don't satisfy her in bed.

I feel....confused and flustered.

I'm really not sure what to make of everything.

If I were wiser....I still have no clue.

[Indiana]

Wait, how do you know who the text was from and what it said?

[MidasGirl]

Well, be thankful at least for one thing. All this is being revealed before you tie the knot, as it was going to come out anyway. She's doing you a favor.

Obviously there's a whole world out there regarding sadomasochism. Whether it's "normal" or not I guess depends on who is looking at it. Do the masochists think it's not normal? You'd have to ask them.

But why would you want to be with someone you are obviously so sexually incompatible? If it is absolutely necessary to do certain things for a person to get pleasure, and you feel completely put off by those things, I think that is just an obvious 'not gonna work'.

Perhaps you are the one who needs to see a shrink. Seriously. To have them work with you to determine if this is something you can live with in marriage.

The other thing is that people can die from this stuff if taken to extreme. And there's a chance you don't know what extreme she may want to go. She's already got you choking her. (Google "David Carradine masochism").

Methinks someone is just honest enough with you and you need to now need to be honest enough with yourself and her. Plus she's dirty-sexting other men? Are you ok with that?

[aggie]

i agree with midas girl...are you ok with this...i don't understand how you can be engaged to someone and not be concerned about this sudden revelation and turn of behavior.

if you love her enough to try to make this work...you would both have to agree to some kind of counseling.

i personally hate that word vanilla when it is used to describe sex that is not in some way kinky or dirrrty.

it also seems to be of popular opinion that woman like the bad guys these days....well maybe some do.

it takes all kinds...as a woman i enjoy being "taken" from time to time...but you are talking another kind of animal...it takes all kinds, but there is nothing wrong with being a nice guy and a gentle lover. someone could definitely appreciate that.

[Cheshire Cat]

I had an ex who preferred similar 'games' when it came to sex. I thought it quite strange at first that he really got into playing the submissive and that he liked being humiliated and abused even more so. Though I tried, I couldn't bring myself to go as far as he wanted because I've always associated sex with love and for me, it didn't feel right to treat anyone we love like that... I now believe that his self-esteem issues might have had something to do with his fetishes. Anyhow, I think that if you're not comfortable with providing the sort of intimacy your partner requires and you also don't want anyone else to give her what you can't, then I don't see how the relationship can continue unless you two can talk it through and work out a compromise? Your happiness matters as much as hers. Good luck!

[siryessir08]

I saw the text because we were laying in bed together and her phone started vibrating, and you can read the texts from the front screen of her phone. Besides, we're allowed to go through eachothers phones, we don't believe in keeping things hidden...until recently i guess.

Our relationship is so much more than sex. We're perfectly compatible except for the sex aspect of our relationship. I'm not really upset because I realize she was simply scared of what my reaction would be. I am somewhat disappointed in her about the sexting...I told her she can't sleep with other guys a couple days ago when she asked me. I did tell her I'd think about letting her sleep with girls.

She doesn't really understand. She is not physically posessive of me at all, and tells me I can have sex with anyone I want. She simply doesn't want me to build emotionally intimate relationships.
In her mind, she wants to do the same thing. She wants purely physical relationships with others while keeping me as her intimate relationship.

I'm pretty confident I have to marry this girl. It feels like there's outside forces keeping us together. Also, she's the only person I've ever known that I could raise children with, and, generally our growth as human beings is exponential as long as we're together.

To top it off now, she does not want to have sadomasochistic sex with me at all, as she associates me with "stability and safety," which doesn't mesh psychologically with the domination she desires.

Still not sure how to handle this.

[Daffy Duck]

This is what I see happening. You two will break up, or you will enter into an open relationship where you're both free to sleep with whoever you desire.

Just think clearly about what you want. Don't betray yourself. Best wishes to you man, I feel for you. If I ever had a fiance come up to me and suddenly wanting me to start abusing her during sex, I'd probably feel very surprised and confused as well. Things will work out. Keep your head up!

[Beuford]

or buy some toys

[drakecatz]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by aggie

it also seems to be of popular opinion that woman like the bad guys these days....well maybe some do.

Right on aggie! And I would say "most don't." And it's so true what you said about this being dangerous. How do I know? it's a very strong feeling!

I like to think I'm somewhat "hip," but when I read this earlier today I turned into one big prude! Shock, gasp,omg, and judgmentally,.... Disgust! There's a part of me that wants to throw a blanket around your shoulders and walk you gently out of the house. I'm not kidding!

If I were you I'd break this engagment. There are many girls looking for a great guy who wants tender loving lovemaking. The soft staring into eachothers eyes kind with murmured words of I love you. Playful and fun too!

Thank god you're not married yet. I'd hate to see you go down this dark road. Of course it's your life, but you clearly don't want to do this. So don't!

[MidasGirl]

Drakecatz, this seems to be a psychological situation. What the OP described is obviously sexual masochism --which has been documented for centuries.......and apparently it is more common with men than women. So this isn't the typical "just want a bad guy" deal. Masochists only get pleasure through extreme pain. If you read up on it, the BDSM peeps are trying to get it to not be considered a disorder. Apparently it only goes downhill from when the person starts exhibiting those behaviors.

My take on it is: obviously there are people out there happy to be sexual sadists. If you aren't one of them, then you are wasting a masochist's time.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by siryessir08

...
Still not sure how to handle this.

How does she feel about the whole situation? Does she see it as a problem? If so, how will she solve it?

What I get is that she wants to stay with you, but wants her sexual needs met in different ways than you can or want to provide. Is this something new? How long have you been together?

[Plays With Life]

The masochism is about wanting to push the limits of sensation .. to have someone take you to a place you couldn't get yourself, because the sensations are so overwhelming that you couldn't stay in control. It's about wanting to explore those intense levels of sensation. There might be ways you could do that with her that are not so dirty and abusive. Like, some intense toys. Taking someone into those places can be an intimate and tender experience, too, it doesn't have to be violent. I could give you some specific suggestions if you PM me.

I wasn't sure when I read your post if it's that she wants to get into more intense physical feelings .. or if she wants to be degraded .. or if she just wants more Enthusiasm during sex. Like the saying, "If you're not breaking a lamp, you're not doing it right." If you're willing to make it more enthusiastic, or more interesting by doing things like sex in public places, maybe ask her if that would do it for her. Tell her you don't like degrading her, but there might be other things you're willing to explore and try out.

Honestly, it sounds to me like you guys aren't compatible for a relationship. You want different things.

[MiBeloved]

I suggest that you decide whether you want to help her to change these tendencies or not. If you want to help then it will take a tremendous amount of time and emotional energy. If you are unwilling to do that, then you should opt out of the relationship and release her to fate.
Your Solution # 3. Will work only if you are there to help her and to direct her in following the advice that is assuming that the psychologist is competent and experienced enough to handle this. Many of them don’t know anything but they have their degrees and are licensed to help others even though their recommendations lead nowhere.
Your solution #4 is crazy because you will be stressed by her actions in this way and then you have to worry about contacting sexually transmissible diseases.
Solutions #’s 1&2 are no good because then you will be taking yourself to her level and there is the likelihood that you may assume this type of behavior yourself, either needing to give or to accept sex related violence. Right now you are doing this to act a part according to her needs bur if you keep doing this it might become your obsession. Many us who smoked cigarettes casually to be cool, ended up as nicotine addicts and then the smoking was a must not a causal trend.
Your solution #5 is the best but it has the defect of meanness and callousness which cannot be recommended because she is one of us, a human being and she is in our world community and therefore if we damn her, then we do in effect damn ourselves, because she is part of the whole humanity.
Thus let us use #5 with a little tweaking as follows:

5. Dump her ass but do so with compassion and with concern. Begin the concern by not pawning the ring. Instead try to sell it to another couple and split the proceeds between you and her or give her all the proceeds if you can. You may also if you are attached to it and want to give it to some future partner, buy out her part of the ring which is to pay her 50% of what it is worth.
It does not matter if you bought the ring. The point is that you gave it to her in good mood and she accepted it and intended to honor what it meant. So it is no longer your property even though you purchased it (if that is the case).
Give her the annoying cat.
Leave an opening, don’t shut her out completely, because she might need your council and just your contact from time to time, but don’t leave an opening that is so wide and so invasive that her negative needs begin to affect you after splitting up.
Remember one thing, that if you dump her ass is a callous vicious way or in a resentful way, then it means that our humanity as a whole will be no better for it. If there is a disease in one organ of the body, it will affect the whole body so the body has nothing to gain by doing anything to increase that disease. And it is not like she can be cut out of humanity by surgery. Humanity has to live with her, so if you can help her after the split up, that would be appreciated.

Masochistic or other deviant sexual behaviors are not really deviant. In fact they are deviant only in reference to our self-righteous religious ideas. These behaviors are part of the range of possibilities in Nature. There will never be a time when these behaviors will be eliminated from human life on this planet. But that does not mean that we should not come to terms and reform ourselves from these behaviors.
We should make every effort to do so.

[Erin Pavlina]

This is actually a reason some people go polyamorous. To get a certain need filled outside the relationship, while keeping their primary relationship intact. If she needs violent sex and you aren't comfortable giving to her, she could go outside the relationship to get it, while maintaining a healthy relationship with you. But that's something you both need to discuss and be okay with. If monogamy is more important to you, and this need is very important to her, then one of you is going to have to do something you don't want to do or you'll have to break up.

[aggie]

maybe i am too old or just too out of it...but it seems so contradictory....let her do what she wants outside a relationship and come back for a "healthy" relationship with you. which to me, makes it sound like what she is doing isn't healthy... and if the cause can be explored thru counseling or therapy, it would seem it is not just some different twist that people naturally have or wake up with one day.

that aside what scares me is that you feel this is the only person you could raise children with...please don't. what adults do...not fair to bring children into a situation like this.

[drakecatz]

Thanks for the info MmidasGirl.. Sigh. This whole thing is very upsetting to me. I quoted this line so the OP would read it again.

Yes sir no sir 08 , Sounds very milltary to me. Or possibly it's about your dad?...

I read your other thread, and you said your parents don't like the girl you're engaged to. Did they tell you why? Maybe your parents are hard to deal with, but as we get older, sometimes looking back we find they were right.

What did they say about her?

I think most everyone on this forum has given you good advice. I think you need to read up on this subject, and I'm not talking about some weird site with god knows what.

Is this girl older than you?

Keep posting, and pay attention to those knots in your stomach.

[drakecatz]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by aggie

maybe i am too old or just too out of it...but it seems so contradictory....let her do what she wants outside a relationship and come back for a "healthy" relationship with you.

I'm older than you aggie, and I totally agree!!! This doesn't seem possible to me either. If this makes us "old and out of it," fine with me.

[James81]

She just told you that she wanted to explore relationships outside of the relationship, and you just found out that she was already trying to do it?

That, obviously, says she didn't really care what you were going to say. She just wanted to tell you to alleviate herself of any "guilt" or wrong-doing.

Do you want to marry someone who doesn't care what you have to say?

Do you want to marry someone who isn't congruent with who you are in the bedroom?

Do you want to marry someone who needs some guy to treat her like **** to make her happy? do you realize what that means you'd have to become to make her happy?

Answer these questions, and I think you'll know what you need to do.

I think you already know what you need to do.

[joylangtry]

Originally Posted by siryessir08

...I told her she can't sleep with other guys a couple days ago when she asked me. I did tell her I'd think about letting her sleep with girls.

Sooo.... she's your possession?

[drakecatz]

Wow James81! Your last post was excellent! I'm too upset about this issue to even think of something really good to advise. Thanks!

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by joylangtry

Sooo.... she's your possession?

I can see how his words make it sound possessive, but I think he's saying if you sleep with someone else (which she always has the choice to do), then our relationship is going to have major problems.

If I tell someone, "You're not allowed to punch me in the face," that doesn't mean they are my possession. I'm just setting a healthy boundary for them. Besides, if they even try, they're going to regret it.

[aggie]

this is something i am having a difficult time understanding...this notion that if you set any guidelines, boundaries, even restrictions on what you will or won't do in life or tolerate from people..it makes you some controlling less than enlightened human being. like there would be something wrong with you if you didn't let someone do something that could harm or humiliate you in some way and undermine your beliefs or feelings.

Jesus turned the other cheek...but he didn't take any unecessary s**t either, (and i am not talking about what he endured on his spiritual mission either) and he doesn't expect us to!

[siryessir08]

Thanks for the clarification Daffy.

And all of you, you've given me some very helpful advice and a lot of perspectives.

I've been engaged to this girl for about 8 months (dated on and off for 4 years), and to be honest our sex has been pretty stale for awhile.

This hasn't really bothered me...I really don't care much about sex. For me, it's just like...I need a sexual release at least once a week and that's that.

But apparently this has been festering in her for a long time, and she's been embarrassed to bring it up.

I've decided that our primary relationship is too important for me to give up, but I feel very uncomfortable about the idea of her being thrown around in the bedroom by creepy sadistic guys.

If it comes to that, so be it...they are nothing but emotional hurdles that someday I need to get past anyway. I realize that setting boundaries around the use of her physical body is a form of possession to an extent, but it's still an emotionally sensitive area for me at this point of my life.

So for now I'll try to exhaust additional options. I like Plays With Life's advice. There isn't any way to change the way she feels about sex. Regardless of whether or not I enjoy sadistic sex now, it can be learned. If she's enjoying it, it will cause me to enjoy it too. I could experiment with other options too, like the use of toys and public sex, as they might give her the same adrenaline rush she's looking for.

I just wonder if engaging in sadistic sex could have a negative effect on my consciousness. I guess if I'm doing it out of love it wouldn't, regardless of what I'm physically doing, right? It's all about intention, correct?

[joylangtry]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

I can see how his words make it sound possessive, but I think he's saying if you sleep with someone else (which she always has the choice to do), then our relationship is going to have major problems.

If I tell someone, "You're not allowed to punch me in the face," that doesn't mean they are my possession. I'm just setting a healthy boundary for them. Besides, if they even try, they're going to regret it.

Yes, but Daffy, if someone punches you in the face, they are punching you.

Maybe I shouldn't have dipped my big toe into this thread, but here I am.

I think there is a whole lot going on here that is mostly about our social conditioning and constructs. I think I'll just agree with Erin's comment and go away now.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by joylangtry

Yes, but Daffy, if someone punches you in the face, they are punching you.

Indeed, and if someone lies and is unfaithful, they are cheating on you.

I like the idea of making and keeping promises. I like dedicating myself to honesty. This has worked very well for me in my life.

I think I'll just agree with Erin's comment and go away now.

Aww, well, I appreciate your comments.

I agree it is good to look at our own beliefs. Do I believe in this because I want to or because society has taught me to? I think all of us have encouraged the OP to examine himself and figure out what he really wants. This is the best course of action, to me.

Originally Posted by siryessir08

I guess if I'm doing it out of love it wouldn't, regardless of what I'm physically doing, right? It's all about intention, correct?

Maybe. Many people have done something in the name of Love that negatively affects their consciousness. I guess it all depends on you.

[aggie]

if you even entertain any questions that engaging in this behavior may have a negative effect on your consciousness...then you ought to pay attention to the warning sign!...if you really expect a marriage and children from a relationship like this you are opening yourself and your children to a world of hurt and possible dysfunction in the future....

[Zas]

Originally Posted by siryessir08

I just wonder if engaging in sadistic sex could have a negative effect on my consciousness. I guess if I'm doing it out of love it wouldn't, regardless of what I'm physically doing, right? It's all about intention, correct?

It could have a negative effect, but so could sex in general or even food, you know?

At the same time, it can also be an intensely spiritually deepening experience- Exploring extremes with a partner. There has to be a strong and solid foundation of trust and respect to be able to be at a place where you can say, "I will fearlessly provide you with all the stimulation you need and it will not threaten who we are because we understand the solidity of our connection at an even deeper level." And it's not just about "needed" stimulation always- Sometimes its just seeing where two people can go in an "icing on the cake" way.

There are so many levels to a connection with someone- Being a lover, being a friend, being someone who challenges, being an inspiration, being a business partner, etc. . . . This is just one more.

You said, "generally our growth as human beings is exponential as long as we're together" and I promise that this situation could easily become a part of it. Whether it's by opening up and exploring this part of you ((maybe start with more gentle teasing and denying scenarios and work up to the physical stuff; or get her to try on a more dominating role so she can show you the appeal?)) or by opening up and letting her be with other guys ((you can work into this too by starting with more aggressive girls or choosing the particular men with her or being there with her when it happens or deciding together that this guy can push her around but it's just about the sensations and they're not to remove any clothing or have sex.))



Anyway, if something sort of frightens me or unnerves me (and not in a "masked gunman breaking into my house" survival sort of way, obviously) I'm really drawn toward figuring out why it is making me defensive. Usually I realize I'm just seeing it from a perspective of alarm rather than one of understanding. There's a lot of room for both of you to grow here (separately and as one) if you both feel the path would be worth it.

[ssandra]

If you truly want to learn more about this, and about what might be what she is thinking I would advice you the book: "screw the roses, send me the thorns".

This is a very good basic book that can learn you anything that you want to know before making the decicion.

Having been in your girlfriends situation various times, I think she handled it wrongly. But it is understandably. The feelings that she is having now even only online with other people are probably so much more intense than she has ever felt before.

Communication is the key. She might not be able to tell you why she feels what she feels (it has NOTHING to do with abuse or low self esteem! It is just the same thing as being gay or or liking oral, or liking your neck kissed), but she will feel better about having you to talk to about what she likes, dislikes etc.

Very important is that you agree on a safeword!! Agree on a word (and DEMAND from her that she has that with anybody else she plays with) that means STOP without having to use the word stop.
Telling people to stop can be a turnon if they don´t. Therefor you need this word. People who do not respect this word are rapists.

Good luck. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask here or in a PM.