What more could us guys do for you girls?

[Andy4]

I've been involved in quite a few relationships, hopefully I'd like to think I'm getting better at them. If I'm honest if I'd've been my partner in some of them then I would've wanted to stangle me.

I will admit that I do have a few issues but I am genuinely trying to improve.I personally think being able to make people smile, laugh and have a good time is important.

I'm a fervent Bolton Wanderers fan but good luck to Manchester United against Barcelona next Wednesday. Hope all the Man U guys and gals have a great time in Rome and bring the trophy back to the U.K

Have a great weekend

Lots of love, Andy.

[jaamkie]

The number one thing guys can do is to treat me as a human first, woman second. When coming from a base of respect and connection as fellow human beings, generous chivalry and open sexual interest can be VERY appealing in a man; but the same actions can also be a slimy turn-off when accompanied by a condescending macho attitude.

Treat me as a partner with complementary skills and a shared objective of happy companionship; appreciate my better traits and my efforts at self-improvement, but don't pretend I'm perfect or expect me to fill every void in your life. Find what is really important and start down a path pursuing those values/goals, then relax and stop worrying about other imperfections. From easygoing confidence, open up and fearlessly share your life with me.

[Andy4]

wow, jaamkie,

That's complex, but hey, you women are, I really do love women in every way, and I mean that, I love being around female company, maybe because I was brought up in a very male environment. Dont get me wrong I still love my buddies a lot.

I treat women, men, prospective partners, everyone I meet exactly the same and I do mean that, nothing phases me, my heart may beat a little faster when I come across someone I really fancy but You'd never know it. I'm always a mate first and then if it progresses then so be it.

We share a passion for self improvement, Dont be too hard on your man , none of us are perfect. I've enjoyed chatting with you.


Take care.

Andy.

[polyfulcrum]

Use your Big Boy Words! I know that women are just as bad about this, so lead by example. If you want something (time to hang with your mates, for example), say so. If you dislike something (not into interior decorating?), don't go along to humor us. If you notice something that you like about your partner (I really like the way she treats my Mum.), verbalize it, rather than just thinking it in your head. If there is an issue that is bothering you, don't wait for us to notice that you're upset about something and pry it out of you, even if it's something that is our fault, and especially if it isn't.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by polyfulcrum

Use your Big Boy Words! I know that women are just as bad about this, so lead by example. If you want something (time to hang with your mates, for example), say so. If you dislike something (not into interior decorating?), don't go along to humor us. If you notice something that you like about your partner (I really like the way she treats my Mum.), verbalize it, rather than just thinking it in your head. If there is an issue that is bothering you, don't wait for us to notice that you're upset about something and pry it out of you, even if it's something that is our fault, and especially if it isn't.

Yes, that would be nice! Let go of the scorecard in your head and be fully self-expressed rather than swallowing your feelings. If you find yourself believing that women (or a particular woman) "always" or "never" does such and such, examine that belief for truth -- really, no exceptions? These universals are such an excellent way of robbing a relationship of freedom. (And, as polyfulcrum mentioned, it's not just men who do this -- women can be in the same boat.)

[Rose of Cairo]

I don't see how your post relates to the thread title, but to answer your question,

What more could us guys do for you girls?

you could stop thinking in "guys" vs. "girls" and just treat everybody as a unique person.

[James81]

The real answer to your question is for you to STOP thinking in terms of what you can do for HER, and start thinking in terms of what you can do for yourself.

Because when you start thinking in terms of what you can do for women, you are qualifying yourself TO women (i.e. putting her up a little higher than you rather than on equal footing).

Women aren't complicated (that's a huge myth) when you understand what drives them.

Thing is, though, is to stop thinking in terms of what you can do for her. Do what feels right (not what you think will make her happy, because when you do what you think might make her happy you are doing things for her to please her and not because you truly want to do them for her). See her as complimentary to your life (as she SHOULD see you to hers) and not as your entire world or as someone you constantly have to please. Hone into situations where you need to comprimise, of course, but don't comprimise everything and lose your manhood to her.

I think women really just want men to be men, something that seems lost in our society. I don't think she wants you to be this touchy feely metrosexual man (which is touted by the media and entertainment industries). I think she just wants you to have a passion and let that passion radiate to all areas of your life. Don't do things because you feel compelled to do them. Do them because you WANT to do them. If you find yourself not WANTING to do them with her, then you are not compatible and need to find a woman you WANT to do them with.

[funchy]

Be honest. And that includes being honest with yourself: what do you really want? really need? Are you in the relationship for the right reasons? How can your partner know you & be respectful of your feelings/beliefs if you're not being honest about them?

Communicate. Sometimes this means saying difficult things. Always communicate with your partner with respect and consideration, even if you're angry or hurt, no matter if they're male or female.

Listen (not just with your ears, but with your whole mind and body). This makes not just talking but sexual interactions, intimacy, and pretty much everything better.

Understand that in any relationship, there will be times where work is needed. You only get out of the relationship what you put into it.

Appreciate. Be thankful for what the person brings into your life. Sometimes make an extra effort to tell/show them your appreciation. Life is short, so don't get caught in a relationship-rut or take your partner for granted.

And I think you get a +1 for just asking this question in the first place. Why not just ask your partner "what can I do for you tonight?"

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

...
you could stop thinking in "guys" vs. "girls" and just treat everybody as a unique person.

So true! As a man, I always cringe a bit when I see topics like this. Just be yourself, respect her as you want respect yourself.

Every woman will tell you something different in what she values in a man, and vice versa.

There's a nice saying: 'be the friend you want to have'. Paraphrased one could say: 'be the lover you want to have'. Don't make it more complicated.

[MissVlo]

Different women want different things but in my case, I want a man who takes me into consideration at all times, who listens to my opinions, and isn't afraid to give verbal assurances of continuing love, along with frequent acts of tenderness. Women need constant reassurance from our partners because we are more fragile and delicate emotionally, a lot of men don't seem to understand that and for some reason seem to think that the more you ignore the woman you're interested in, the more she'll want you.. lol! I once came across some guy who said.. "If you like a girl, never tell her! Never give her flowers or show her how you really feel. If you do, she'll lose interest!"

That couldn't be farther from the truth. The "macho" approach may work on immature high school girls but if you really want to have a meaningful, lasting, and satisfying realtionship with a woman, giving and receiving love without fear is the way to go.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by James81

The real answer to your question is for you to STOP thinking in terms of what you can do for HER, and start thinking in terms of what you can do for yourself. Because when you start thinking in terms of what you can do for women, you are qualifying yourself TO women (i.e. putting her up a little higher than you rather than on equal footing).

Isn't part of a good relationship being willing to give freely? (male or female)

How does it make you less of a man by being giving and considerate? If she's treating you the same way, I guess I don't see what the problem is.

By your logic, would women who think of their partner's needs be putting him up above her? What prevents a stalemate: where everyone should never think of the other and we should all be selfish and self-centered ?

Women aren't complicated (that's a huge myth) when you understand what drives them.

What do you think drives them?

I think women really just want men to be men, something that seems lost in our society. I don't think she wants you to be this touchy feely metrosexual man (which is touted by the media and entertainment industries).

What does it mean to be a "man"? Everyone I meet seems to have a slightly different definition. (I've noticed people also can't seem to always agree on what it means to be a "woman" or the roles of either in a relationship)

Is it more important to be a "manly" man or to be a giving loving partner? Why can't one be both?

[Andy4]

Thanks Polyfulcrum,

Verbalising genuine compliments is important. Again, nice comment about speaking up about what's on your mind, from both partners perspectives, good post.

Thanks, Angela. No scorecards, I agree but personally I believe that this is more of a female thing than a male one? Talking to each other is vital, Thanks.

Funchy,

What can I say?

What a beautiful person you are, sorry I would've said woman but I might offend some other pc members. I really hope you get what you want out of this life, I know you give all you can to others, you're not judgemental, to me you are natural, honest and a brilliant person to know. Keep doing what your doing and You'll get your reward in the end. Lots of love. Andy.

Rose,

I agree, we are all people, not specifically men and women and I am a big advocate of this belief and that is exactly how I live my life but come on if you don't like the term 'guys and gals' think of it as partners, whatever, does it really matter, as for the post not relating to the thread? Read it again a bit more carefully this time and then maybe you'll get it?

James,

If a man or a woman's biggest crime is putting their partner on a pedestal then so be it. If more people did this then there would be a lot more great relationships out there.

Spirit4711,

good quote, nice one.

MissVlo,

Again, spoken from the heart, 5 posts in, wow, another California girl, keep posting.


Thanks guys, great answers, the thing I learnt most but not the only thing was to communicate more. Thanks a lot for all your replies,

Take care, lots of love, Andy.

[James81]

Originally Posted by funchy

Isn't part of a good relationship being willing to give freely? (male or female)

A good relationship is about both give and take. You can't meet someone else's needs until your own needs have been met.

Originally Posted by funchy

By your logic, would women who think of their partner's needs be putting him up above her? What prevents a stalemate: where everyone should never think of the other and we should all be selfish and self-centered ?

You misunderstood what I was saying.

Originally Posted by funchy

What do you think drives them?

The same thing that drives men.

Originally Posted by funchy

What does it mean to be a "man"? Everyone I meet seems to have a slightly different definition. (I've noticed people also can't seem to always agree on what it means to be a "woman" or the roles of either in a relationship)

Is it more important to be a "manly" man or to be a giving loving partner? Why can't one be both?

I could fill a book about what it means to be a man. Some of it would be accepted, and some of it would be conrary to the myths that are perpetuated in our society today. In fact, I'm thinking of doing a series about being a man on my blog. Keep an eye out because that's the next subject I intend to jump into (hopefully, assuming I don't get distracted by some other subject between now and then).

There's a differenct between being a giving, loving partner and putting the partner's needs ahead of your own. When I saw the title of the thread, "What more can men do for women," it certainly has that "hue" of supplication to it. (i.e. here is how I read it: "What MORE could men do for woman?")

Originally Posted by Andy4

James,

If a man or a woman's biggest crime is putting their partner on a pedestal then so be it. If more people did this then there would be a lot more great relationships out there.

Nah, putting your partner on a pedastal seems to be the way a lot of relationships are failing these days. Mainly because it doesn't feel "real" to have someone worship the ground you walk on.

[MissVlo]

Thanks Andy!

I'm actually from Portugal though.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by James81

A good relationship is about both give and take. You can't meet someone else's needs until your own needs have been met.

But if you're waiting for your needs to be met first, before you give anything, that isn't give-and-take.

The same thing that drives men.

But what is that?

There's a differenct between being a giving, loving partner and putting the partner's needs ahead of your own.

But that's what true love is: putting the other person ahead of one's own immediate needs. If the other person loves you back, he/she should try just as hard to meet your needs. IMO in a good relationship, you can't keep score.

When I saw the title of the thread, "What more can men do for women," it certainly has that "hue" of supplication to it. (i.e. here is how I read it: "What MORE could men do for woman?")

Would you have raised the same concerns if this was a woman posting asking what more she could do for men?

Nah, putting your partner on a pedestal seems to be the way a lot of relationships are failing these days. Mainly because it doesn't feel "real" to have someone worship the ground you walk on.

I think that you and I must have different ideas of what this means. There's a difference between freely giving vs being emotionally dependent. A person can seek to do more for their mate without being an annoying puppydog. This isn't about a pedestal. I think it's about being willing to surrender part of yourself to meld with someone you love.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by funchy

...
Would you have raised the same concerns if this was a woman posting asking what more she could do for men?
...

Don't know about James81, but I would. It comes over as needy (at least to me).

[James81]

Originally Posted by funchy

But if you're waiting for your needs to be met first, before you give anything, that isn't give-and-take.

See that's the thing...you can't meet someone else's needs until you FIRST meet your own needs. Of course, we are taught that it's selfish for us to put our own needs first by our society, but that's pretty much just a delusion that we tell ourselves. Of course our first drive is to help ourselves. Embrace that, and then look beyond it when your needs are met to reciprocate.

Originally Posted by funchy

But what is that?

Hunger, sex, love, emotions, etc.

Originally Posted by funchy

But that's what true love is: putting the other person ahead of one's own immediate needs. If the other person loves you back, he/she should try just as hard to meet your needs. IMO in a good relationship, you can't keep score.

No, that's what the dogma of today tells you that true love is: putting other people ahead of yourself. That only creates resentment when you aren't getting your needs met, but you are still giving of yourself. It's called overextending yourself, and it's a surefire way to create resentment, bitterness, frustration, etc.

Some people think of that as selfish. But there's nothing selfish about meeting your own needs. What is selfish is having your needs met and STILL demanding more.

Originally Posted by funchy

Would you have raised the same concerns if this was a woman posting asking what more she could do for men?

Sure.

Originally Posted by funchy

I think that you and I must have different ideas of what this means. There's a difference between freely giving vs being emotionally dependent. A person can seek to do more for their mate without being an annoying puppydog. This isn't about a pedestal. I think it's about being willing to surrender part of yourself to meld with someone you love.

I think we fundamentally disagree on what makes a healthy relationship. I don't think you need to "surrender" anything, nor do you need to "meld" with someone you love. A relationship is about taking an already happy, complete, and whole person and matching them with another already happy, complete, whole person, so that they become something greater than themselves by being together.

But too many people see relationships as a reducing of self, and then melding together with someone else to become "one." I would much rather take two wholes and become "two" because, well, two > one.

[Andy4]

James,

Firstly,when I Praised you on the other thread I was not being sarcastic. If this is the way you took it ala "Ha ha, thanks mate " then you are wrong, I'll repeat, it was a great post and I love quotes, Especially the Rocky one, adventive and brilliant.

Now, down to business, If putting your partner first is supplication, that is your belief not mine and hopefully not the belief of the majority of red blooded males and females on this planet.

I'd die for my partner and my stepboys, What true man or woman wouldn't?

You use the phrase, your phrase "nah," I dont agree etc, etc. this language is not only pompous, dismissive and disrespecting but childish, You've been on this forum a couple of months now and have made some really good contributions, why spoil it.

I can kick off and be agressive with the best of them, not only on a forum where it's easy to be brave but face to face when it reallly counts but one thing I rarely do is disrespect a person's oppinion, because they are entitled to it.

A lot of what you say I agree with, eg. you must take care of yourself in order to then help others, I really have got a soft spot for you, believe it or believe it not but I think your delivery needs work.

Chill out, have some fun and respect your co-membrs oppinions. Take it from one who has learned the hard way, it can take years to repair unnecessary comments, even if you truly think a person is an *******, smile and keep it to yourself, A woman once said to me, when I stop caring about you I will stop arguing with you, I ignored her and that woman walked, clever me.

Regards, Andy.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by James81

A relationship is about taking an already happy, complete, and whole person and matching them with another already happy, complete, whole person, so that they become something greater than themselves by being together.

But if you're already happy, complete, and whole, what is all this talk about waiting for "needs" to be met before giving the partner special attention? If you're complete, you should have no urgent needs to need them to fill first.

I think maybe you see the giving as finite and sometimes an effort? I see it more like a well, something I give from a little every day, and never run out of.

I don't see it as a desperation. It's not done out of some fear the guy will leave if I don't bend over backwards to be his maid and concubine. It's more like I want to set the relationship up to be as giving as possible, both ways. Nobody has to give if they don't want to. But when something special is given freely in a relationship, it means more than any flowers or jewelry.

But too many people see relationships as a reducing of self, and then melding together with someone else to become "one." I would much rather take two wholes and become "two" because, well, two > one.

I think you and I have similar ideas about relationships, but perhaps we're approaching it from different directions.

I don't think it makes me any less of a person if I do more for others. They don't own me. I am still my own person. They still need to respect me and treat me fairly.
There seem to be two choices: I can hold out and give my affections to my partner, one begrudging drop at a time, when he 'earns' it. Or I can do what my man needs & enjoys each day, because he's worth it and because it makes me happy to see him happy. It doesn't cost me anything to do these little things for him, at most just a little of my time.

I feel like one of the problems in modern relationships relates to time & priorities. Everyone I know plops down in front of the TV (or Playstation, Internet, or a case of beer) every night after work. Is this how I want to spend all of my free time? What if instead of wasting that 25 minutes zoned out in front of a TV show, I spent that time doing something nice for my partner? In that 25 minutes, I can give a partner an awesome back rub, listen a bit better to them talk about their day, work on a better home-cooked meal, or pleasure him in (adult) ways. It costs me nothing but a few minutes that I'd just waste watching re-runs. The guys I meet seem to come to realize that when a woman they like & respect goes the extra mile to keep him happy, the guy usually softens up a bit and him giving back comes easier. I've also noticed that if I put a guy in a good mood when he first gets home from work, he naturally is more receptive when I want to go to do something I enjoy, such as going to bed early for a bit of naughty time. People are so stressed out nowadays. I know how hard men can work at their jobs. Even if my partner wanted to focus on us, it might be hard until he can relax a bit. So why shouldn't I do something for him to help him relax and feel good?

Maybe I've been overly fortunate in that I've met people willing to give back and not take advantage of my kindness? I just feel that if I am in a state of giving & sharing with my partner, it seemed to create a positive atmosphere where he tends to give back to me, often exceeded all my expectations.

[ns123]

What more can guys do for girls?

Well, it depends on the guy and it depends on the girl. But if I'm the girl, and my husband is the guy... he could give me more massages. But not if you're just any guy... cuz some guys don't give good massages.

But if I'm the girl, and you're just any guy off the street, a friendly smile and hello as we pass by is a good start. It always feels good to see a smile and a nice hello.

[Andy4]

Hi ns123,

Yeah, smiling is very under rated and it's easy to do, If you ever pass down our way I'll give you a friendly smile and a hello.

Take care, Andy.

[marinik]

You can be a complete person. When you are complete you treat me with respect and as an unique human being. You give your best - as all I do to you. You do not complete me but compliment me as a partner.
Be my my partner in life, my lover, my husband, the father of our kids, my friend.... I don't need you to make me whole, I need you to enjoy life with me and try new things and build together.

[Andy4]

Good post again, marinik.

It's interesting, a lot of people are comming up with similar things. Similar things they want from a relationship.

I've stated before I believe trust and attentiveness are vital, not just to intimate relationships but to all relationships.

Take care,

Andy

[ns123]

Originally Posted by Andy4

Hi ns123,
Yeah, smiling is very under rated and it's easy to do, If you ever pass down our way I'll give you a friendly smile and a hello.

I grew up in the midwest and when I was a child-teenager, I would take evening walks with my mom. Every one we passed by smiled and said hello. It was very nice. Most of the people we smiled and said hi to, we never met before. There were a few regulars on our walking route and that always felt like home.

Now I live in Texas... in a very large city. I always smile, some times they smile back... but not always. I do miss the smaller town feel. But no one says hello any more. Even me.

[Angela]

Hello, ns123!

[xoxo]

well I can think of quite a large list of answers for this question hahahaha
In my long and short term relationships what I have enjoyed the most from my boyfriends was surprises of romance. Little things that just showed me I was appreciated and loved whether it was a love note when I woke up or a planned date for after work, it really made a difference.

[Andy4]

Hi ns123,

I'm the same, I moved from a smallish town to a big city, it takes some getting used to, but you keep smilling and saying hello, it's nice and thougtful, Smiling and laughing is so powerful and makes a person approachable.

Angela's post was a typical example, short and sweet, a little tongue in cheak maybe but it said it all and confirmed my point, and its easy to do it, and even though its a fleeting exchange it makes both of you feel good.

Xoxo,

Keep writing your list, the more you ask for the more you get.

A couple of years ago, approaching Easter bank holliday my wife kept mentioning DIY jobs she wanted me to do. After a while I just said, listen I'll never remember all these jobs just do me a list.......!

I got my list and then some, the magna carta had nothing on her list believe me , we all live and learn! but she got all her jobs done, and I finally got out for a holliday beer about 8pm on bank holliday Monday!

Liked your post.

[ballhit2]

Be her best friend
Be her compass
Be her comedian
Be her masseuse
Be her confidant
Be her sex slave
Be her cook (sometimes)

Fix her car
Fix her computer
Call the plumber to fix her toilet

Kill bugs (or let them outside if you read Steve's article about that and resonate with it)

Date her friends (if she's poly)

DON'T FIX:

Her Debt
Her Hair
Her Problems with her Ex

[Andy4]

Nice one Bh2.

We English see our German friends and colleagues as focused, good at football/penalties!. You build the best cars on the planet, shame on us. But sense of humour, no. Have you got British parentage?

Seriously, great irony, you sound like you've had a relationship or two.

They (girls) fall out with us over something that's their fault, they blame us to high heaven, sulk for two days, WE apologise and then everything is fine and dandy again.

And you thought us English knew nothing about the fairer sex.

WE are learning fast.

Especially when there is no footy on TV.

If we play you in the next world cup, we will hire another Russian referee, I promise.

Regards Andy.