The Myth of PMS

[Bliss Sage]

Not sure where to put this. Since I think the concept of PMS is most interesting to consider in how it plays out within relationships, I'll put it here.

Social factors not hormones cause PMS, post-natal depression and menopausal stress

The Truth About Premenstural Syndrome - Myth Or Real?

premenstrual syndrome: Definition from Answers.com

The reason some women get severe PMS while others have none is not understood. PMS symptoms usually begin at about age 20-30 years. The disease may run in families and is also more prone to occur in women with a history of psychological problems. Overall however, it is difficult to predict who is most at risk for PMS.

[James81]

I am laughing really hard at the fact that your second link was written by a man.

I kind of buy into *some* of what the first link says though.

[Angela]

... in fact the pressures of being 'superwoman' are more likely to blame, says a leading expert.....unhappiness as a biomedical condition.

"...PMS and PND are essentially a form of repressed rage women feel rather than a medical illness. Our research has shown that their distress often stems from women trying to do too much for everyone - except themselves," says Professor Ussher....women feel compelled to be the 'good wife, mother and emotional nurturer of others'.

"It's a form of self-censoring. Women feel that they are expected to cope with the gamut of responsibilities - including their job, partner, children, extended family, housework etc - without complaint.

Ich don't theeeenk so. At age 11, when PMS struck me so hard that at times I could barely function, I felt no pressure to be superwoman, no compulsion to be a good wife, mother, or emotional nurturer, and no expectation to cope with responsibility of any kind without complaint.

I would agree that stored-up emotion exacerbates PMS, though.

[cylon]

This doesn't explain girls with cramps. The first time I dealt with this was a high school girlfriend. She was just in pain. She didn't have any responsibilities.

Anyway, I wonder what the male version of stress is called.

[carenkh]

I used to believe PMS was made-up; it was women out of touch with their bodies, women who had been made to feel ashamed of menses, etc. Then I had kids, and the hormonal changes made PMS very real for me. Until I was aware of what was happening, it felt like I was going crazy... anger for no reason, despair, etc. for several days. Until my period started, then magically everything was all better! I know that underlying emotions, beliefs, etc. play a part - but I no longer believe PMS is a myth.

[cylon]

To me it seems like it's trying to say having children isn't a natural thing for women. Their bodies are designed to have babies. That's why the pain stuff happens in the body.

[Angela]

And I'm sorry to be nitpicky, but I find that spelling the word "premenstrual" incorrectly in the title of an article on premenstrual issues just sort of undermines one's authority in the matter.

(but that may just be my pms speaking.)

[MidasGirl]

Well, from personal experience I'd have to say lots of stress and a crappy diet do not help PMS. But I think we simply can't refute the fact that there are different chemical changes happening in the body at different times during a woman's cycle. It's a question of how well your body is prepared to handle them. For me forexample, if I tend to have low iron and must load up on iron throughout the month or I'll look completely drained around my periods. Many people comment and ask me what's wrong with me as my eyes look so tired.

So what does the evidence actually show? During PMS women will experience certain physical symptoms, including cramps, breast tenderness, and water retention, and of course these physical symptoms can make some women feel grumpy or unhappy, just as pain can make men feel grumpy or unhappy. But emotional symptoms associated with menstruation – notably, irritability and depression are rare.

This was written by someone who obviously never had periods. And to imply that men are (emotionally) better than women at handling physical pain? Laughable. He hasn't been near a sick man has he? A toddler handles physical sickness better than a grown man, moodswise IMO.

Does it need to be said that women and men don't produce the same reproductive chemicals, or at least not same levels.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

A toddler handles physical sickness better than a grown man, moodswise IMO.

Right.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by carenkh

I used to believe PMS was made-up; it was women out of touch with their bodies, women who had been made to feel ashamed of menses, etc. Then I had kids, and the hormonal changes made PMS very real for me. Until I was aware of what was happening, it felt like I was going crazy... anger for no reason, despair, etc. for several days. Until my period started, then magically everything was all better! I know that underlying emotions, beliefs, etc. play a part - but I no longer believe PMS is a myth.

Agreed. The problem with those kinds of assertions is that it can be taken too far. My friend's ignorant ex-husbnad for example, decided she was faking all of her pregnancy cravings and gave her a real hard time about it. He told her he didn't see why simply being pregnant should make her want to eat certain things she wouldn't otherwise crave. Oh wel.....probably why he's her ex.

I don't dispute there is an emotional component to PMS. But it probably plays a very small part. And just cuz certain women don't get PMS symptoms does not mean those who do are making it up. It'd be like me, who hasn't ever got depressed saying that those who are depressed are making it up. (well, there are people who say that!)

[Holistic Star]

Hey Midasgirl, you might want to edit your post so that is refers to 'some men' not being able to handle a cold.

Those arguments against sweeping generalisations cut both ways.

[cylon]

That's what I like to see, a little non-generalizing enforcement.

Many guys I know (including me) will try so hard to not show they are sick that they actually end up worse off than if they would just stay home or relax.

"No I'm fine" "But your arm is cut in half" "I'm good, I'm good don't worry"

[Holistic Star]

Ah now you see, my H does go down heavily when he has a cold. In fact one time when he had one, he phoned me up saying he thought it was SARS! which made me

Fortunately he doesn't get ill often, but when he does - I sure know about it!

Cylon - your post reminded me of the Black Knight in the Holy Grail!
It's just a scratch, merely a flesh wound.

YouTube - Tis but a scratch Monty Python Holy Grail

[Holistic Star]

ooops sorry, back to PMS.

Well 20 years of experience at approximately 13 times a year so lets say 260 experiences) leads me to conclude that water retention, bloatedness, additional hunger, cramps, need for additional sleep, raised body temperature, spots are certainly not in my mind!

I do have to say that when my diet is cleaner my symptoms are reduced. But even then, you sometimes get a curveball one that knocks you for six when you aren't expecting it.

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

Cylon - you must be like the Black Knight in the Holy Grail! It's just a scratch, merely a flesh wound.

YouTube - Tis but a scratch Monty Python Holy Grail

Lol, yeah I'm afraid it can be that way.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

Hey Midasgirl, you might want to edit your post so that is refers to 'some men' not being able to handle a cold.

Those arguments against sweeping generalisations cut both ways.

I know, actually I don't mind editing it to say "my man". But I'm sure most women who've lived with "a man" will relate. For my man having a cold/flu is like a ticking time bomb. Touch and die. And this is a man that can take out most of his training mates in an MMA match up.

[Andrew Brunelle]

I am no expert here because I'm a man, but I did read that women on the raw foods diet 100% didn't get periods or PMS anymore. It could be just a few exceptions or it could be for a good percentage of the population, but I have no idea. Perhaps all of that is merely your body detoxifying itself from all the processed and cooked foods most the world eats.

But I have no idea for sure. It's just a theory.

[James81]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

A toddler handles physical sickness better than a grown man, moodswise IMO.

See? Now that's just as narrow-minded as the article that says PMS doesn't exist.

[James81]

Originally Posted by cylon

That's what I like to see, a little non-generalizing enforcement.

Many guys I know (including me) will try so hard to not show they are sick that they actually end up worse off than if they would just stay home or relax.

"No I'm fine" "But your arm is cut in half" "I'm good, I'm good don't worry"

"It's just a flesh wooooond."

lol

[Rose of Cairo]

For many years PMS has been very real for me. After switching to raw foods, it completely disappeared though. Not only did my very heavy PMS symptoms disappear - the extreme pain and extreme bleeding during my periods disappeared as well.

I don't think I suddenly felt less pressure to be a superwoman when I went raw.

The most interesting fact is that I went back to cooked food a few weeks ago. Guess what I got? Heavy period, heavy bleeding, and heavy PMS before that. For the first time since the beginning of my raw journey.

If you ask me, PMS is a physical thing. It's easier to talk about psychological factors than to address the real causes: the crap we ingest.

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by James81

See? Now that's just as narrow-minded as the article that says PMS doesn't exist.

Looks like I touched a sensitive nerve. Ok, some men handle sickness a little better than toddlers do.

It was meant to be funny, but I guess it wasn't. Oh well.....need to work on my internet humor skills.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by James81

See? Now that's just as narrow-minded as the article that says PMS doesn't exist.

I don't think so, not necessarily at least. A toddler hasn't had as much time to store up negative emotions as a grown man, so her "feeling bad" isn't all piled up with inappropriate or unwarranted emotion. Toddlers WANT to feel better because they're generally not as loaded down with limiting beliefs and old pain as a grown man is. Toddlers are like dogs in that way -- dogs don't usually lean into their pain -- they'll do their best to play and have fun even in the midst of awful sickness, again because they're not loaded down with ghostly old pain.

The same is true for women, of course, but one advantage women generally have is that we are encouraged to tap into external resources, like talking about our feelings with our friends, so that we can (again, generally) get the learnings and let go of the old negative emotions; whereas men, as cylon pointed out, are somewhat more likely to "suck it up" -- both illness and negative emotion. So when they get sick, it can feel more devastating to a man. Plus there's the whole "mom" thing, which doesn't have to be a "superwoman" thing, but moms will work through their pain because they are compelled to care for their children -- no time off for sickness. But men will tend to just go ahead and Be Sick -- they'll give themselves permission to just really go for it, stay in bed, allow themselves to be waited on (something many moms find a bit uncomfortable).

Of course I'm talking in broad generalizations, but it's a generalization I think many women here (moms especially) will recognize. I think it would be great if the habitual gender roles eased up and balanced a bit, and it looks to me like they are doing so, as more and more kids are being raised by conscious parents:

Men could be encouraged to express their negative emotions with friends, get the learnings, and let go of the no-longer-needed negative emotion, and thereby build more health and vitality into their bodies; and

Women could be encouraged to give themselves permission to just go ahead and Be Sick when they're sick -- rest, allow themselves to be taken care of, and forget about everybody else's wellbeing while they heal themselves. (and that includes going to bed when PMS feels debilitating, free from some clown's judgement that their pain is not "real" -- in the same way that men don't need women nagging them about "faking it" or "milking it" when they don't feel well.)

[Indiana]

Having been on the Pill for most of my adult life, I went off it about eight months ago and it has been quite a shock.

My skin has gone nuts, and it's particularly noticeable around my period. And I have really noticed mood changes. Several times I have found myself feeling unreasonably and unusually irritable - like, actually thinking, "My god, why is my wick so short at the moment?!" and then a day later my period turns up. (I haven't been closely monitoring my cycle so never really know when to expect it).

Much as I'm not that keen on going back to artificial hormones, if things haven't evened out after a year off, I will seriously consider it.

[cylon]

When men get sick it can bring out the nurturing, feminine aspects of the women they are with, which is extremely rewarding. This is probably why some guys milk a cold. They get pampered and it's the one time they aren't expected to be strong and tough. So it's the context.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cylon

When men get sick it can bring out the nurturing, feminine aspects of the women they are with, which is extremely rewarding. This is probably why some guys milk a cold. They get pampered and it's the one time they aren't expected to be strong and tough. So it's the context.

Yes, that's so.... and that's one of the ways it would be nice for things to balance out -- for women to give themselves the chance to enjoy being nurtured when they don't feel well, and to enjoy the nurturing aspects of the man in their life -- to feel like she can count on him to keep the kids quiet, to bring her something yummy to eat, and to stroke her head or give her a nice orgasm when she's got cramps* -- as opposed to being impatient and judgmental with her. It would be nice if women also had this one time when they're not expected to be strong and tough, and to take care of everyone else's well-being ahead of her own.

*little known but very effective remedy

[James81]

Originally Posted by Angela

I don't think so, not necessarily at least. A toddler hasn't had as much time to store up negative emotions as a grown man, so her "feeling bad" isn't all piled up with inappropriate or unwarranted emotion. Toddlers WANT to feel better because they're generally not as loaded down with limiting beliefs and old pain as a grown man is. Toddlers are like dogs in that way -- dogs don't usually lean into their pain -- they'll do their best to play and have fun even in the midst of awful sickness, again because they're not loaded down with ghostly old pain.

The same is true for women, of course, but one advantage women generally have is that we are encouraged to tap into external resources, like talking about our feelings with our friends, so that we can (again, generally) get the learnings and let go of the old negative emotions; whereas men, as cylon pointed out, are somewhat more likely to "suck it up" -- both illness and negative emotion. So when they get sick, it can feel more devastating to a man. Plus there's the whole "mom" thing, which doesn't have to be a "superwoman" thing, but moms will work through their pain because they are compelled to care for their children -- no time off for sickness. But men will tend to just go ahead and Be Sick -- they'll give themselves permission to just really go for it, stay in bed, allow themselves to be waited on (something many moms find a bit uncomfortable).

Of course I'm talking in broad generalizations, but it's a generalization I think many women here (moms especially) will recognize. I think it would be great if the habitual gender roles eased up and balanced a bit, and it looks to me like they are doing so, as more and more kids are being raised by conscious parents:

Men could be encouraged to express their negative emotions with friends, get the learnings, and let go of the no-longer-needed negative emotion, and thereby build more health and vitality into their bodies; and

Women could be encouraged to give themselves permission to just go ahead and Be Sick when they're sick -- rest, allow themselves to be taken care of, and forget about everybody else's wellbeing while they heal themselves. (and that includes going to bed when PMS feels debilitating, free from some clown's judgement that their pain is not "real" -- in the same way that men don't need women nagging them about "faking it" or "milking it" when they don't feel well.)

I walked around Walmart with pnuemonia, buying my own medicine. I also cooked and took care of myself for 4 days while I was laying on what felt to be my death bed.

Not all men milk a cold or make it seem like the Grand Canyon of sickness.

that was my point.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by James81

I walked around Walmart with pnuemonia, buying my own medicine. I also cooked and took care of myself for 4 days while I was laying on what felt to be my death bed.

Not all men milk a cold or make it seem like the Grand Canyon of sickness.

that was my point.

Yes, I got your point -- that's why I was so careful to use the word "generally" so much in that post.

You implied that MidasGirl is "narrow-minded" because of her remarks, but I just wanted to point out that that's not necessarily so. It looks like she was generalizing, too, just without all the eggshell-walking. She may be narrow-minded, but not necessarily.

[James81]

Originally Posted by Angela

Yes, I got your point -- that's why I was so careful to use the word "generally" so much in that post.

You implied that MidasGirl is "narrow-minded" because of her remarks, but I just wanted to point out that that's not necessarily so. It looks like she was generalizing, too, just without all the eggshell-walking. She may be narrow-minded, but not necessarily.

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that Midasgirl was narrow-minded. I was saying that that one thing she said was a narrow-minded opinion. (splitting hairs, but I don't want to insult her )


(unless she's into that kind of thing )

(lol)

[Angela]

Originally Posted by James81

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that Midasgirl was narrow-minded. I was saying that that one thing she said was a narrow-minded opinion. (splitting hairs, but I don't want to insult her )


(unless she's into that kind of thing )

(lol)

Yes, that's true. Thanks for pointing that out.

(and what I said about not necessarily being narrow-minded still applies to the remark, not just when used about a person herself.)

(She said, joining in the hair-splitting. )

[James81]

Originally Posted by Angela

Yes, that's true. Thanks for pointing that out.

(and what I said about not necessarily being narrow-minded still applies to the remark, not just when used about a person herself.)

(She said, joining in the hair-splitting. )

Ha ha.

(who am I?)

(I dunno, who are you? Am I you? Are you me?)

(We are penguins, and we are monogamous)