He wants me to emigirate and drop everything

[chrystall]

About a year ago, I was doing an internship in the States and met this lovely guy. I though really nothing more than a summer fling of it at first, but when the time came to say goodbye, neither of us could. I've never felt this easy and comfortable with anyone in my life, and we have an amazing connection, both emotionally and physically. He's said, several times, that he wants to marry and I feel this may be the love of my life.

Thing is, I live in Europe, a ridiculous 8 hour flight and 7 hour time difference away.

His proposition was at first that he come and see if he could find a job in my country for a while. We've done a few visits over the year, the mandatory parental meetings etc. Last month, he announced that it would not be possible for him to try this, due to personal responsibility to family, job situation, the fact that my country just doesnt feel like home (based on a 2 week trip) etc. I kind of get his point, he's an immigrant in the country already (altho a national) and immigrating once again is never fun. I've tried suggesting meeting halfway, picking neithers country, and starting afresh together. He turned that down too, due to responsibilities to parents. I'm not thrilled about moving to the States, I have family, friends and career here. We discussed this, and in order for us to continue, I said I could reconsider moving.

I'm hurt of course, for him not even giving it a shot and of course wondering, is this a sacrifice I'm willing to make. I'm very close with family, so picking up and leaving would be a huge sacrifice on my behalf. My career is picking up, and it's a career I could not continue in the States. I feel like he's willing to give in very little leeway for me on any significant things. He says that if I do move, he'll do everything to make me happy, and I'm sure he would. I'm just not sure it would be enough. All these fights we've had about the future have made be doubt will I ever be the number one in his life, which I really need to be, if I am to give everything up.

Also, a 30 year old man that has never lived more than a 30 minute drive away from his parents strikes me as odd. Another aspect, why I was pushing for us trying out another country, new for both of us, is because I feel he's too emotionally dependent in his parents. He just claims that I don't understand the relationship. And he's right of course, I don't. I like his parents but they are exactly the kind that will be butting in all the time. And he runs when they call for help. I will always be number 2 to needs of them. My parents have had a very dificult relationship due to the same reason, so I wouldn't want to repear their mistakes.

He is a good man. Sensitive, responsible, caring and affectionate. When we're together, I have not a worry in the world. Most of our views on life match, save him being a little more conservative.

It is my decision that will make or break us and I'm lost. My definition of love is putting the other persons need ahead of your own, but I can't be the only one doing it. Am I being too demanding or is there a way out here? Any and all ideas are much appreciated.

[spirit4711]

I suggest making a list of scenarios and write down and discuss with each other:

- you go live with him

- he goes live with you

- you move together to a new country

- you have a long distance relationship

- you end the relationship

- you change the relationship into friendship

- ...

For each of the scenarios, you both write down:

- what do I gain?
- what do I lose?
- what remains the same?

It might give you both clarity.

You write that you feel he's not moving at all, only 1 scenario seems possible for him. Maybe that stays that way. Don't get lost in beliefs like 'true love means ...'. Just find out together if your relationship should continue and in what way.

[MyEyeIsOpen]

Hey, listen to yourself. I hear two main complaints:

1) You feel like maybe this is uneven because he expects you to drop everything for him, yet he won't do the same for you. Work that out!

2) He may be too dependent on his family. You're worried about being #2? Work that out as well.

Good luck!

[ssandra]

Like the person before me, I feel it is not as much about the moving that you worry, but more about the relationship with his parents he has and if he loves you enough.

Figure that one out first, after you can make a more informed decision.

Another option is to move to the USA, but to another city (state) than where his parents live.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by chrystall

It is my decision that will make or break us and I'm lost. My definition of love is putting the other persons need ahead of your own...

Hi, Chrystall, and welcome to the forums.

I started to reply when I realized that I'm operating on an entirely different assumption of love -- I don't think you do your partner any favors by putting their needs ahead of your own. I think satisfying and fulfilling each person's needs are his own responsibility, and you do more for the relationship by taking care of your own needs, while honoring and supporting the other person in doing so for himself. If you start off your relationship by subjugating all of your needs to his, you are 100% responsible for the pattern that will likely set quickly in stone.

It's like by doing this, you are effectively signing a "contract" that says that you are willing to put your needs 2nd. In the future, when it's time to make choices together in your relationship, it's likely that you'll be expected by him and his family to honor that contract, and continue to subjugate in favor of his needs. If that's ok with you, I'd say go ahead and move to the U.S., marry him, find a new career, and figure out a way to handle or let go of resentment.

I'm using the word "needs" here the way you are -- that is, to mean "preferences."

Because what you're talking about here are not needs at all, but really preferences! If we were talking about real needs, it would make sense, I think, to consider making sacrifices. But you are really talking about weighing out your preferences vs. his.

If I were you, I'd ask my beau to brainstorm with me and find a 3rd, unknown alternative, one in which you can both have your most important preferences satisfied and fulfilled. I'm not a fan of compromise, so I wouldn't suggest compromising -- by which I mean ignoring a value or principle. But if you can both distinguish which points are very strong preferences, like values and principles, and which are less strong preferences, I think that's a good start for loosening up your thinking and being flexible in finding a solution that will have both of you feeling really good, strong, and congruent about beginning a new life together.

in the meanwhile, on your own, you might want to take a bold look at this, "I'll always be #2 to the parents, and I don't want to repeat the mistakes of my own parents." It sounds like there may be a limiting belief in there that could be having more influence over you than you are consciously aware of. (I say that because when you resist a pattern, like not wanting to repeat someone else's pattern, or being resigned, there's usually some old decision you made about yourself that is running you beneath your conscious awareness. Shedding light on it allows you to recognize the learnings available out of the decision and to release the old negative decision and resistance -- then you're free to generate something new that works better.) I think if you just do this, you might find you're able to come up with new, inventive solutions.

[chrystall]

Angela, I think you are absolutely right. Happiness should come from within yourself, and not others. I'm lost here and I think I kind of lost that guiding principle I've had this far in my life because I thought I had found something extraordinary. I think I'm, little by little, letting go of that feeling. I'm fighting between reason and heart here. And for someone whose been a very rational person thus far, always looking out for my own good and now I'm in a place where I haven't been and I'm finding it difficult to navigate. You need someone to remind you of that every once in a while, so thank you.

Spirit47111, thank you for the matrix. We're meeting face to face in a couple of weeks and, being the nerd that i am , I will be there with paper and pencil to discuss our options.

I've always valued this relationship because it's been more honest and communicative (maybe due to the distance) than the ones I've had so far, so I really need to practice what I preach.

Thank you also ssandra and MyEyeIsOpen. I think, albeit it all, I want to make this work, not at any price, but to give it a good shot at least. Fear is a powerful emotion and fear of letting go and going to the deep unknown maybe even more so. Discussing thing like this is hard over skype and when we're together, it seems so easy that you forget to deal with the difficult stuff. But I can't lose myself in the process, I'm sure it will come back as anger and hate. And no relationship should be that.

Wish me luck.

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by chrystall

...
Wish me luck.

No way!

I do wish you strength to follow your heart...

[themaster]

Originally Posted by chrystall

My definition of love is putting the other persons need ahead of your own

This is your problem right here.. as others have stated.. you don't really believe this or you wouldn't be having this dilemma.. always choose what's best for you.. not others.. (this is a selfish universe) meaning this definition/belief is a limited one.. abandon it and join the unlimited potential..

Here some basic questions.. maybe they'll help you sort it out..
Can you not see your relationship working at a distance?
Can you not create if you have too.. his parents and him moving?
Can you not just replace this guy with another locally, I mean really is the market that bad or you just want to force it to work?

your own writing shows you have this decision all worked out.. you are just running around intellectualizing it rather than flowing with your guidance.. your guidance has told you.. you’re comfortable in the area you’re in.. and flexibility on the relationship or creating within it/or anew is required

(ohh.. yes I'm high as a kite on the wisdom that is my favorite teacher)

[newsbone]

Originally Posted by chrystall

I've never felt this easy and comfortable with anyone in my life, and we have an amazing connection, both emotionally and physically. He's said, several times, that he wants to marry and I feel this may be the love of my life. .

You are caught between two hard choices putting a side your career and family in favor of the love of your life or putting a side your love for the sake of the family and career. Do you follow your heart or your mind, do your feelings or intellect play any role in your decision making as far as matters of the heart are concerned? This is not an impossible decision if the two of you choose to put your feelings before your minds, but unfeasible if you decide to use your minds.

Originally Posted by chrystall

His proposition was at first that he come and see if he could find a job in my country for a while. We've done a few visits over the year, the mandatory parental meetings etc. Last month, he announced that it would not be possible for him to try this, due to personal responsibility to family, job situation, the fact that my country just doesnt feel like home (based on a 2 week trip) etc. I kind of get his point, he's an immigrant in the country already (altho a national) and immigrating once again is never fun. I've tried suggesting meeting halfway, picking neithers country, and starting afresh together. He turned that down too, due to responsibilities to parents. I'm not thrilled about moving to the States, I have family, friends and career here. We discussed this, and in order for us to continue, I said I could reconsider moving. .

Both of you are somehow tied to your families, friends, countries and jobs no wonder you are soul mates and a perfect match for that matter. One has to let go or you will lose what you share and treasure. The choice as to who should do that must be based on pros and cons, merits and demerits of both your preferences.

[SimonaRich]

He is definitely too dependant on his parents. Just try to think what it would be to live with him for a year, if he runs to his parents as soon as they need him. Do you really want to always stay in connection with them?

Also it is not fair that you should move to states and he does not even consider moving to your country. It was fair for you to suggest moving to a totally different country, that would be very equal. However he turned that down so that shows that he thinks that his opinion is more important.

Really consider if you want to be in such relationship, because if you get stuck with him in the states and realise that it is not what you want, it would be a hassle to move out.

[Brutha]

I'm hurt of course, for him not even giving it a shot and of course wondering, is this a sacrifice I'm willing to make.

Basically you feel hurt because he's not giving it a shot but you have problem yourself with giving it a shot as well?

[inverse Paranoid]

Originally Posted by chrystall

I've always valued this relationship because it's been more honest and communicative (maybe due to the distance) than the ones I've had so far

Comparing this relationship relative to your previous relationships is a reasonable course of action. But I would also encourage you to imagine and compare it to your ideal relationship.

It sounds like you've found someone who syncs up a lot with what you're looking for, and this guy really stands out when compared to other men you've dated. But if you decided to break up with him you would not be "trading him" for someone the past you would have attracted. You'd be breaking up with him for the opportunity to meet someone who the current you would attract.

Whatever decision you make will have both short term and long term ramifications. You can probably estimate what it might be like to stay with him in both the short and long term; so I'm going to focus on illustrating what it might be like to break up with him so you have something to compare it to.

Since you like reasoning things out I'm going to use formulas and language that speaks to your rational mind to help you reason things. It sounds like you're already pretty in tune with your heart so I'm going to focus on what's really at stake from a rational perspective so that your mind can better weigh your options. The final decision I would really recommend making with your heart/intuition, though.


Short term ramifications of breaking up with him:

(Obviously you'll experience something close to what you're used to experiencing after a breakup in the very beginning. But since that's such a temporary state, focus on how life might be like after those feelings have subsided.)

C = Current guy (factoring in the current situation and all the consequences of that)
A = Average guy you would attract now that might be a candidate for a long term relationship. (Don't factor guys you might start a relationship with but realize you aren't a match for fairly quick, the possibilities and potential unpleasantaries of that can be factored into B)
B = How much you enjoy the beginning stages of a relationship relative to how much you would enjoy continuing on with your current guy.

A - C + B = S (Short term difference.)


Long term ramifications of breaking up with him:

I = Your ideal guy
C = Current guy (factoring in the current situation and all the consequences of that)

I - C = R (Room for improvement)


M = Average man that you're likely to attract now and in the future that you would deem "marriage material."

C - M = W (What's really at stake to lose.)

If M > C, then you'd be selling yourself short to leave.

If not, then you're saying that the current guy is more likely to be a better match for you than someone you'd possible marry in the future. In that case, use this sliding scale.

M ---------------------- I

Wherever C lands on this scale will give you a good visual analysis of what you're really risking vs what you may stand to gain.


The wildcard variable:

Originally Posted by chrystall

My definition of love is putting the other persons need ahead of your own, but I can't be the only one doing it.

It sounds like your current guy is a match for having a wife that puts his needs above of hers. If this is something you truly want then you're in a good situation. If this is something that, deep down, you don't really want, then you have a few options.

1) Keep this belief, and stay with the current guy or be a match for attracting future partners who expect this in their significant other.

2) Change this belief, and allow current guy to react to it. You'll either redraw your relationship on different terms or decide that you're not such a good fit for each other now that you've changed. Plus, you'll become a match for attracting men who don't expect their woman to put them first in the future.


A final word on imagining your ideal relationship:

At first glance it may sound like your ideal guy would be impossible to find (that or you're being too realistic with who you'd love to be with). But that's just because you're used to dating the people you've dated and haven't consciously calibrated your RAS (Reticular Activating System) to start looking for what you'd really like.

The more you experience different qualities of a relationship, the easier it'll be to discover and name what you really want, and the more attainable that ideal someone will seem. Especially if you look at this from an abundance viewpoint where you're not "giving up" someone who was a close match for you, but using what you loved about them to help you find what you really want.

View it like a game of hot and cold (loose description here if you're unfamiliar with it). You'll know when you're getting closer or when you're straying away based on how much "hotter" or "cooler" a relationship feels, and eventually it'll be a series of hotter and hotter relationships until you find the one that's perfect for you.



Best of Love in whatever you decide!

Josh

[James81]

Quite simply: This sounds like an issue of incompatibility for several reasons....

1. The main reason being the distance in which neither one of you really WANT to close the gap. It would be different if one of you actually wanted to live in the other's country, but it's not that way at all. You both have strong ties that are binding you where you are, and for either of you to give that up will create a rift of resentment within the relationship.

2. Your number one theme seems to be that you think he's too emotionally dependent on his parents. I'm telling you straight up, in blunt terms, that this is an issue that will not only cause problems in your relationship, but has the full force of power to completely rip it apart. I've seen it happen time and again. Some people are closer to their parents than others. (btw, a 30 year old man who has never lived more than a half an hour away from his parents is not in any way shape or form "odd." I'd say that probably describes like 80% of the people who are out there)

Relationships that START with a long distance phase are very hard to keep together. The reason is that you don't truly get to know one another until you are able to see each other on a regular basis (physically see each other....there is a huge difference between online interaction and real life interaction, and one of the KEY elements missing from your relationship is the consistent physical intimacy).

From an outside perspective it seems so obvious that you two are incompatible and either one of you abandoning your life to see what happens seems like an awfully big risk to undertake. If it fails, then what? Do you stay in a country you don't want to be in because moving back would be equally as large an upset in your life?

Relationships are not about sacrifices like this. This is an unrealistic sacrifice to make for a relationship, especially knowing just how many other men out there would make an equally good match for you and they are all right there in your own backyard if you can find them. Healthy relationships and healthy love is not about sacrificing your own needs for another person. It's about radiating the love that already exists within and for yourself and sharing that love with someone who is in a similar state with you, joining yourselves together, and then growing your love together from that point.

I won't say to "break up with him" advice (although it's what I'm thinking). I'll just say to think it through, decide what you truly want to do, and then do it.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by James81

Relationships that START with a long distance phase are very hard to keep together. The reason is that you don't truly get to know one another until you are able to see each other on a regular basis (physically see each other....there is a huge difference between online interaction and real life interaction, and one of the KEY elements missing from your relationship is the consistent physical intimacy).

Actually, long distance relationships do not have a different break up rate or pattern from in person relationships (there is such a thing as a center for study of long distance relationships, and they've researched this )

The long distance situation only exacerbates your problem, but the fact that your parter sets ultimatums, is uncommonly close to his family, that you feel that your interests are opposites... would exist in person too.

Many smart things have been said so far. In your situation, I would give expatriation a try, but knowing nothing of your personality, I'll outline my conditions for doing so:

Not uprooting myself permanently before giving living together a good try
Not going if I didn't have anything else than him to look forward to (I love travelling so I'd be grateful for the exciting opportunity, but if it's not your case, be aware that your partner will NOT fulfill all your needs)
Not putting myself in a situation where I'd be completely dependent on my partner - have a work visa, your own sources of entertainment, your own network of friends, transportation means etc.

[James81]

Originally Posted by aelle

Actually, long distance relationships do not have a different break up rate or pattern from in person relationships (there is such a thing as a center for study of long distance relationships, and they've researched this )

I take research on the study on relationships with a grain of salt.

The difference between LDRs and regular relationships is a very key component that you can NEVER EVER have in a LDR:

Physical intimacy

No relationship, no matter how strong, can withstand a long-term lack of physical intimacy. I don't think we need a study to tell us that...it's common sense.

[tintin]

Originally Posted by aelle

Not uprooting myself permanently before giving living together a good try
Not going if I didn't have anything else than him to look forward to (I love travelling so I'd be grateful for the exciting opportunity, but if it's not your case, be aware that your partner will NOT fulfill all your needs)
Not putting myself in a situation where I'd be completely dependent on my partner - have a work visa, your own sources of entertainment, your own network of friends, transportation means etc.

thats good practical advice there!


anyway ,i detest the word 'sacrifice'
if thats the angle im going into a relationship with then i can only imagine the crap that lies ahead.
not for what he would do to me but in the name of the 'huge -life-altering-sacrifice i made' -what all "I" would be subjecting him to!
being a victim is not a good place to start.

[chrystall]

anyway ,i detest the word 'sacrifice'
if thats the angle im going into a relationship with then i can only imagine the crap that lies ahead.

That is true, but sacrifice is what it is, if you give everything up. And that is what I fear too, giving over and becoming resentful. I'm not putting all needs ahead of your own, but am able to compromise to some extent.

Basically you feel hurt because he's not giving it a shot but you have problem yourself with giving it a shot as well?

Well, I've proposed a few alternatives, e.g. locating in a third, neutral country. I'm not completely unwilling to relocate either, not if I have a decent job because being a housewife would not be something I could take.

(btw, a 30 year old man who has never lived more than a half an hour away from his parents is not in any way shape or form "odd." I'd say that probably describes like 80% of the people who are out there)

Really? Maybe its just my country then, or certain parts of Europe in general. Here it would be more likely to be something like 90 per cent didnt live that close

Relationships that START with a long distance phase are very hard to keep together. The reason is that you don't truly get to know one another until you are able to see each other on a regular basis (physically see each other....there is a huge difference between online interaction and real life interaction, and one of the KEY elements missing from your relationship is the consistent physical intimacy).

True that, but the difference here is that we didnt really start with a long distance phase, but did have a rather intensive 3-4 months of dating beforehand. So the foundation was made face-to face, not online, thankfully. But, while I do not really recommend LDR's to anyone, they do offer an opportunity to grow, really communicate and figure out wheter yo do not just love this person, but actually like them as people, exactly due to the lack of physical intimacy.

Ps. since last post, we've had a discussion and he suggested that his demands might be unreasonable too, no iniative from my side. I'm no way an innocent and frail female, I can very well stand my ground if I need to. Maybe its a chance to grow, for both of us. So, we'll see how it turns out.

Thanks all for chipping in on this one.