Your opinions about Mr. Johnny Soporno please

[MinglewoodBlues]

I'm opening this thread to find out opinions people have about J.Soporno's philosophy, belief system, strategy, what ever you want to call it. This is for people who really took the time to watch his seductive reasoning videos. People who actually listened honestly, maybe took notes whatever.

Now he seems honest as he claims. He seems to genuinely believe he's "giving the straight dope" as he says. But is he none the less saying many things that have no actual real world truth? This is my question. Because I find it hard to believe that women are as receptive as he claims to the kinds of things he approaches them with. I have been in this world close to the same amount of time that he has and I have never seen any evidence of women being so easily good to go for "RIGHT NOW" sex the way he would claim is some how normal everyday nature. I don't really buy it. Sure there are instances at times maybe. But he is trying to give some paradigm of WOMEN CRAVE SEX AS MUCH AS MEN AND ARE QUITE NORMALLY IN THE MODE TO WANT IT. This is extremely hard to believe without some evidence.

The other thing is how much he refers to knowing or hooking up with people in porn or the sex industry. Does this count as everyday situations between everyday men and women? I kind of think not.

I do think he gives a lot of practical and good advice. Men and women being friends before or during being lovers. Great! This is a kind of common sense approach that many "experts" would advise. More common sense things like getting a woman's guard down. Of course very true. Creating an environment where the stupid tensions of a battle of the sexes, or men and women being some "other" mentality is eliminated. Absolutely agree with many of these points.

So tell me. What do you think? How much do you think Soporno is right? Or does your B.S. meter go off at all from some of what he says?

[Angela]

You want us to talk about Johnny in front of his back?

He is a member of these forums, you know; you could be totally straight and address him directly. Do you not trust yourself to recognize what works for you? Must you check with others before you're willing to believe or disbelieve? All these people out here can give you their opinion, but they can't tell you what is true for you -- and that's what Johnny has done here in the forums: expressed what is true for him. He's not preaching any dogma of Ultimate Truth. Whether it's true for you is your business, and you are certainly free to discuss opinions with others.

Just like any other member here, you are free to use any of what they say that works for you, and even to challenge something you don't buy. But to suggest that what he says is B.S. (by presupposing that in your question) and to address such a question to others rather than to the man himself? That strikes me as rather disrespectful of another member.

[RT Wolf]

Have you considered your belief that there's no women like that out there is limiting your ability to find them?

Article on that here: Believing is Seeing | How to Make Money Doing What You Love

Question is, are you more interested in being right, or in getting your goal?

About Soporno, I just know he's got an AWESOME name.

[MinglewoodBlues]

Angela, your response suprised me. I don't know what you are upset about. I'm not here to talk behind someone's back. Not gossiping. Just asking for opinions that's all. I have no ill opinions of Johnny at all either. I don't have any intention of being offensive. Don't know where your reaction comes from or why.

[Savage]

My personal opinion is that Johnny is a genius in this field.

I spent many hours with him and Violet in person this year (back in January) and sat in for a couple days during one of his workshops. He and Violet came over to our house as well, and Erin and I spent a lot of time talking with them.

I hung out with him and some of his students and fellow teachers for a few days when they came to Vegas. Johnny and I had one conversation that lasted nearly 8 hours straight.

I would also find his material hard to believe if I hadn't seen it myself. It's so counter to our social conditioning that it really takes a while to digest and assimilate. Fortunately I had the chance to talk to a woman he approached and to get the straight story from her, which matched everything Johnny had said.

It definitely takes a while to get your head around his ideas. I've been gradually applying some things I learned from him, and so far the results have always been positive. It's been a real eye-opener to see how easy it is to openly communicate with women about sex, for instance.

Johnny's ideas have helped me become much closer with my female friends. I feel I understand women much better than before, especially the social challenges they must deal with. Even my relationship with Erin has improved as a result.

There are definitely some differences between women in how they'll react to these ideas. I find that the most open and aware women react very positively to it, and fortunately those are the types of women I choose to have as friends. I'm not sure how very close-minded women would react.

How well these ideas work in real life depends heavily on your attitude and whether or not you're congruent when you communicate. If you expect a negative reaction, you'll probably manifest one.

I notice that after meeting Johnny and exposing myself to these ideas, I started attracting different types of women into my life, women who would feel very comfortable talking about sex in casual conversation. I imagine that my old beliefs had been repelling such women before. When you drop your shields, new people can flow into your life more easily.

[ns123]

I dunno him, but I have checked out his website a while back - as well as just now. I cannot attest to the man, but I do have an opinion of his website.

I do not find his website to be very appealing to me, and I dunno if that says anything about me or not. I don't think I'm a prude... but usually the prudes are the first to tell you that!

The layout, colors, and design of his website seems to cater to the pick up community (not in a positive way) though his content seems to be genuine and very personal development oriented.

So my impression of him is a bit of mixed. I find his content worth exploring but am a bit turned off by the design, layout, and color scheme of his advertising.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by MinglewoodBlues

Don't know where your reaction comes from or why.

Sorry, I thought I was pretty clear about why I was reacting the way I was:

...to suggest that what he says is B.S. (by presupposing that in your question) and to address such a question to others rather than to the man himself? That strikes me as rather disrespectful of another member.

My opinion is that suggesting that what someone has to say is b*llshit by asking others if they think it's b*llshit strikes me as disrespectful.

I may be a little sensitive to the issue of respect and b*llshit today.

[RT Wolf]

It's like asking someone "have you stopped beating oyur wife yet?"

See how even in this little way, you presupposed waht you were wanting/expecting to hear, then did things to get that sort of answer? Angela, of course, saw through that and responded to your underlying assumptions.

[Andy4]

Minglewood,

I to have not yet read any of Johnny's work yet but I will.I must support what Angela says and that is if you have a problem with someone's philosophy then you should tackle them directly.

However I think you meant well when you made this post,but it as obviously provoked a lot of reaction,not always a bad thing but when the founder and a senior moderator come out in defence of another member it should alert you to the fact that you may have unwittingly said the wrong thing.

All I can say is that I work In a particularly dangerous industry and I would not have survived as long as I have without being a mediator and a diplomat.

All I would say for future reference is to be careful of who you comment about without knowing exactly who they are.

Both Steve and Angela are expressing both courtesy and diplomacy in their replies to you.It wasn' a bad post and it got people' s attention but I would personally leave it at that.

Take care.

Regards,Andy.

[Daffy Duck]

I don't know much about Soporno or his material, but from what I've seen on the forum, he seems like a good guy. It would be fun to meet him. It'd be fun to meet a lot of people from here.

As mentioned, some women are very open to talking about sex. I have a new friend in particular where, after barely meeting each other, we felt so comfortable that we talked about all sorts of things, including sex. Sometimes you just "click" with a person, ya know? And I have other friends I've known for years that are not very comfortable with the sex subject, and that's perfectly fine too. I've also known people who seem to only think and talk about sex, which is quite boring after a while to me.

[Cameron Teone]

Hey Minglewood Blues,

I am not sure if you’re asking just for the sake of genuine curiosity or if you’re looking for something that is applicable for YOU personally. I am going to assume it’s the latter.

Before I get to that, I should probably establish that I am not some random dude just hypothesizing about dating theory. I have been around the teaching side of things since about 2003.

I have watched quite a bit of the seductive reasoning videos you speak of, and to top that, I’ve heard the theory on numerous occasions from Johnny himself. I’ve hung out with him in Vegas and LA. I’ve also spent countless hours hanging with people like “Mystery” and the ilk (Neil Strauss and all the characters included.) back in the day. (Back in the being 2004, 2005). I know their systems back and forth. (I’ve even worked and helped teach for some these guys when I stared.)

I personally have taught over a 100 guys doing “Field Workshops” where I was instructing guys how to approach, interact and attract women live in the field, (Bars, clubs, coffee shops, restaurants, booksores, you name it…)

So here is what I’d tell you:

There are various tips you can learn from every person. Some of Mystery’s stuff is completely whacky, but then he has some good points that you can learn. What becomes of paramount importance to YOU is to realize WHAT TYPE OF WOMEN YOU WANT TO ATTRACT IN YOUR LIFE.

Most dating advice is geared towards certain demographics, a certain target audience. What archetype of woman do you desire? You looking to meet “Club chicks” who are out in nightclubs getting drunk every weekend? You looking to meet someone ambitious and driven? You looking to meet someone whose primary goals include getting married and raising a family? You looking to date someone who is a stripper or in the Porn Industry?

Please bear in mind that there are underlying principles that help a guy become more attractive. An obvious example of that is possessing true confidence. I say true, because most people pretend to be confident, which is a far cry from actually having a high self-image of oneself.

Getting past the foundational points, different dating coaches will suggest different “Philosophies” and “Tactics.” These are based on their experiences and the type of women they have dealt with.

So to bring this full circle, go with your instinct. If you happen to be watching VH-1 and see Mystery parading around with party women looking for a good time in clubs, then realize that a lot of what he preaches “Negs, etc” and the way he dresses is designed for that particular environment. Apply that same mindset to other dating “Gurus,” Johnny included.

Cameron

[Cameron Teone]

To address this particular question more specifically:

I have been in this world close to the same amount of time that he has and I have never seen any evidence of women being so easily good to go for "RIGHT NOW" sex the way he would claim is some how normal everyday nature. I don't really buy it. Sure there are instances at times maybe. But he is trying to give some paradigm of WOMEN CRAVE SEX AS MUCH AS MEN AND ARE QUITE NORMALLY IN THE MODE TO WANT IT. This is extremely hard to believe without some evidence.

You seem to have a limiting belief that women don’t want or like sex. I don’t have any scientific studies to show you so take my response as anecdotal and experiential.

Women like sex just as much as men and probably enjoy it more than we do, once they actually learn HOW to enjoy it. Watch a woman have 20 to 30 orgasms [or more….] in less than an hour firsthand and you’ll change your mind very quickly about women not wanting sex. Does that mean you can approach any woman in the street and tell her: “Hey, I am good to go, and I think so are you. Let’s go to the back of my van.”

Probably not a good idea. It’s really easy for an average looking, or (even less than average looking) woman to find a guy who is willing to have sex with her. There’ll be volunteers from here to Timbuktu lining up to give her a ride. It’s much more difficult for her to find a guy she likes who is worth seeing.

Having said that, I’d add that depending on the circumstances and the type of woman, and where she is in life, you’re going to find that, yes, you can meet a woman and find yourself in bed with her 2 hours later. Heck, you may even find yourself in some club, you’re both tipsy, and you find yourself getting intimate with a woman in a bathroom 20 minutes after meeting her. It happens. Does it mean a guy can walk into a bar and replicate this every single night? No.

It happens on occasion and on those occasions, it still depends on the 3 factors I mentioned:

*The Circumstances,
*Type of woman,
*Her psyche,

It’s not all women just as it’s not all men who’d even want to do something like this.

(Btw, I suppose there is a 4th factor, which is that the guy ought to know how to approach and attract a woman. I mention the above accounts with that presupposition in mind.)


I don’t know if that answers your question or makes it more complicated for ya. Like I said, I don’t have scientific studies. Just relaying my personal experience, and observations of a lot of guys I’ve hung out with throughout the years.

Take care
Cameron

[cacheborn]

I agree with Angela. It is as if we are all at some party, including Johny and you are asking everybody's opinion, referring to Johny in the third person when he is present. perhaps, a better way could have been focussing on the issue instead of the person. For instance, you could discuss, "do women really want sex as much as men do?"

I have watched first four of Johny's videos and I must way they were extraordinary. They have many ideas that are hard to digest. IMO, the best way to find out if it works is try it out yourself.

[RT Wolf]

You may also be interested in the Real Social Dynamics - Blueprint Decoded. It's got great reviews here from trusted individuals: Blueprint Decoded Appreciation Thread

That is an itneresting question though, do you refer to someone in the third person before they enter a thread themselves? Or do you just assume they're reading and are present? Cause you never know whether someone'll be reading a forums much.

[ilrein]

I have attended one of Johnny's seminar when he was hanging in Toronto. He's become one of my favourite seduction artists, and he has had a significant influence upon me.

Imagine women are in a cage. That doesn't let them move freely, breathing is difficult, and they feel alienated from everyone else. Johnny gives you the key to this cage, bringing women freedom through YOU. "Sexual emancipation for women" as he puts it.

He simply decimates monogamous thinking, explains societal traps in detail, and creates new mindsets to approach women with (literally and metaphorically).

Sometimes the best is education is what we unlearn.

[Scorpio]

Everything I've heard about Johnny Soporno indicates to me that he's a total creep. His general ideas may be useful if applied by someone else. I actually have no problem with polyamorous concepts or lifestyles. But as a person Johnny Soporno seems scummy and the farthest thing from someone I'd want to emulate.

Everything about how he looks, moves, speaks, writes and acts immediately, instinctively strikes me as creepy. I feel it in my bones.

I heard he often shows pictures of his penis, or random girls sucking on it, to people within minutes of meeting them (according to an instructor named Sinn in the seduction community) Creepy and inappropriate beyond words.

Barry Kirkey, a comedian in the seduction community, who interviews all kinds of outlandish guests from that scene on his podcast, and who is no stranger to offensive content, refused to interview Johnny Soporno on moral grounds, because he heard a rumor about something despicable he did from a reliable source.

He works in the porn industry. That alone doesn't bother me, but I've heard a lot of his 'game' involves leveraging his position (possible career advancement) to get sex from the girls in it. Big deal. On the whole these are pretty damaged women too. What works on some messed up 23-year-old who has no standards in who she'll sleep with because she's been so used by men all her life wouldn't necessarily apply to all women.

A lot of guys in that industry seem to go creepy because the girls in it don't react to creepiness from men the way a normal female would. It's a financial thing partially. If the guy who could make you money in the future is being creepy to you, you just roll with it. That encourages them to get even worse.

I don't what else to say. Every shred of my being sees this guy as a total sleazeball. It's common sense to me. It surprises me that some other people don't see what blatantly jumps out at me.

I know Steve could care less, but him endorsing this guy makes me doubt his judgment more than anything, even if he still is a pretty smart guy on the whole.

[pterodactyl]

This is one of the most hideous things I've read this weekend:

"Imagine women are in a cage. That doesn't let them move freely, breathing is difficult, and they feel alienated from everyone else. Johnny gives you the key to this cage, bringing women freedom through YOU. "Sexual emancipation for women" as he puts it."

If this is an accurate reflection of what is being promoted, I have no desire to learn anything else related to this Johnny Soporno person and his ideas. I am genuinely perplexed as to why Steve Pavlina wants to be exposed to these kinds of people and their ideas. I would not ever want to expose myself, and by default, my spouse and children, to them.

[Savage]

@Scorpio: Seems odd to form such a strong opinion of someone without getting to know him face to face.

Having met Johnny myself, I can see underlying seeds of truth in almost everything you wrote, but IMO they've been forced through a different lens... like someone ran them through the "telephone game."

For example, Johnny trains pornstars on how to give better blowjobs, so the pics and videos are essentially demos of what he's able to teach women to do. I can imagine that some people would be uncomfortable with that, in which case he can safely rule them out as potential consulting clients.

If you try to judge someone without taking time to understand their POV, you'll make the mistake of interpreting their actions through your perspective instead of theirs, which leads to all sorts of inaccuracies.

It's sort of funny to hear you describe Johnny as creepy. The vibe I got from him was nothing like that, but from the outside looking in, I can understand how someone would get that impression. Johnny lives pretty far from what most people would consider normal.

[Aleksander Krstic]

My intuition tells me he is talking the truth.

[NeoRio]

Just popping on here to voice an opinion. I speak as someone who, although completely detatched from the whole seduction community in real life, has followed its fortunes over the net for the past 10 years or so.

That out the way, lets get down to brass tacks.

Originally Posted by MinglewoodBlues

But he is trying to give some paradigm of WOMEN CRAVE SEX AS MUCH AS MEN AND ARE QUITE NORMALLY IN THE MODE TO WANT IT. This is extremely hard to believe without some evidence.

Johnny's giving the straight dope. If you hear him out and listen to what he says about a woman's sex life - you'll note that he goes into detail about the lengths that women go to in order to hide their promiscuous activity... and how we, as men, tend to buy into this silly idea that women don't crave sex as much as we do. Therefore, I'm not surprised that you don't believe a word of what he's saying. Women have done a damn good job of hiding the truth. To be fair, they've had to.

Trust me, when you have success with women, you won't be angry at them for not having sex with you. You'll be angry at them for using YOU for sex, and then lying and coming up with excuses to never see you again!
Finally, and eventually, you'll stop being angry about it and realise that it's a wonderful problem to have!

Now, will all women be able to emancipate themselves as he suggests? No way hosea. Some women are much more secure being trapped into societal constraints, and simply can not and will not free themselves from them. Women have discovered this loophole in the sexual cartel that enables them to have sex with many guys under the cover of a relationship, so no-one thinks that she's a *gasp* SLUT. When they want a new guy, all they have to do is start a fight over nothing with their partner, blame the man for not being "good enough", and then hook up with another guy in another relationship. Some women are quite happy playing the serial monagomy game, without even realising that they're playing it, and won't want to stray from a tried-and-true formula - despite how much damage it can create in order to protect her reputation. Personally I've never thrown people I care out of my life, so it always irks me when women find excuses to do it to men.

What's important is that YOU understand what's REALLY going on, because that will preapre you for anything. I personally would never bring up seductive reasoning with women unless they're having relationship problems and they actually want to ask me to help them understand what's going on.
Ones who are happy playing their serial monagamy game are still fun in bed - but now I don't have those silly pointless "formal relationships" or the pointless arguments. The woman moves on and we have an "understanding" instead.

The other thing is how much he refers to knowing or hooking up with people in porn or the sex industry. Does this count as everyday situations between everyday men and women? I kind of think not.

Well I believe that they are real women doing porn in the videos, so I guess SOME women simply love to **** recreationally and have the enjoyment of being paid for the effort. That said, given some rather visual evidence, it's quite possible to believe that YES, women do love to have sex, and not just wiuth one guy. Sorry to ruin everyone's madonna-whore complex. What's more, if you're a man who enjoys having sex -- why not hook up with people who enjoy the same things?

Ever noticed how the camera is always on the woman during porn and that the guys are more or less sideline to the woman's enjoyment that gets captured on film?

I really don't think Johnny gives two shats if anyone thinks he's creepy or whatever. I'm pretty sure he's happy with his life. Personally I think it's pretty cool to have set up a life whereby you get paid for women to go down on your scholng - and enjoy it.

[James81]

Originally Posted by MinglewoodBlues

But he is trying to give some paradigm of WOMEN CRAVE SEX AS MUCH AS MEN AND ARE QUITE NORMALLY IN THE MODE TO WANT IT. This is extremely hard to believe without some evidence.

Women don't crave sex as much as men. THEY CRAVE IT WAY MORE THAN MEN EVER WILL.

Yeah, you read that right. Society, however, has deemed that women are "sluts" for wanting sex, and as such they can't be open about their sexuality for fear of that dreaded "S" word. So yes, you better believe it's true.

I just don't think they want it in the same ways that we, as men, do.

******

As for Johnny S's advice? I believe he's just like anybody else...I take what he says with a grain of salt until I try it for myself and see if it works. Obviously, though, seeing as how has a website and is making money from giving relationship advice or whatever, he has to assert it as if he is a guru on it or people wouldn't be as apt to buy it.

But here's the deal...instead of asking US what we think about his material, why don't you try the things he says and verify them through experience? Well, at least the advice he offers here for free. There's no way in heck I'd pay exhorbitant fees just to find out what I already know: that nobody can really teach you how to be good with women, you have to learn it for yourself through trial and error, experience, and failure. It's that simple. You go out and try 50 new things, then come back and ask for advice on what you did wrong in the things that failed.

It's 80% "field" work and 20% head knowledge.

[Fullcrum]

I love Johnny. End of story.

His authenticity, his natural approach, all of his stuff is gold. I like his focus on sex.

[inverse Paranoid]

Originally Posted by MinglewoodBlues

Angela, your response suprised me. I don't know what you are upset about. I'm not here to talk behind someone's back. Not gossiping. Just asking for opinions that's all. I have no ill opinions of Johnny at all either. I don't have any intention of being offensive. Don't know where your reaction comes from or why.

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

It's like asking someone "have you stopped beating oyur wife yet?"

See how even in this little way, you presupposed waht you were wanting/expecting to hear, then did things to get that sort of answer? Angela, of course, saw through that and responded to your underlying assumptions.

FWIW, I didn't detect any real gossip or prejudice in what MinglewoodBlues wrote in the original post. Sounded to me like a skeptical guy looking for opinions from both camps.

I could see how others could read it differently though.

Originally Posted by Scorpio

Everything about how he looks, moves, speaks, writes and acts immediately, instinctively strikes me as creepy. I feel it in my bones.

I got just the opposite vibe. I was incredibly surprised by him within the first five minutes of watching Seductive Reasoning 101. His authenticity and compassion just seemed too ooze through his every word. And I came into it with negative connotations around his name.

If I ever immerse myself in the seduction community, Johnny will probably be the first place I start.

[izza]

Originally Posted by Angela

You want us to talk about Johnny in front of his back?

He is a member of these forums, you know; you could be totally straight and address him directly. Do you not trust yourself to recognize what works for you? Must you check with others before you're willing to believe or disbelieve? All these people out here can give you their opinion, but they can't tell you what is true for you -- and that's what Johnny has done here in the forums: expressed what is true for him. He's not preaching any dogma of Ultimate Truth. Whether it's true for you is your business, and you are certainly free to discuss opinions with others.

Just like any other member here, you are free to use any of what they say that works for you, and even to challenge something you don't buy. But to suggest that what he says is B.S. (by presupposing that in your question) and to address such a question to others rather than to the man himself? That strikes me as rather disrespectful of another member.

Johnny Soporno's ideas are pretty unusual by "normal" standards. I think it's neither disrespectful nor unwise to post a thread asking what other people think.

Originally Posted by MinglewoodBlues

I'm opening this thread to find out opinions people have about J.Soporno's philosophy, belief system, strategy, what ever you want to call it. This is for people who really took the time to watch his seductive reasoning videos. People who actually listened honestly, maybe took notes whatever.

Now he seems honest as he claims. He seems to genuinely believe he's "giving the straight dope" as he says. But is he none the less saying many things that have no actual real world truth? This is my question. Because I find it hard to believe that women are as receptive as he claims to the kinds of things he approaches them with. I have been in this world close to the same amount of time that he has and I have never seen any evidence of women being so easily good to go for "RIGHT NOW" sex the way he would claim is some how normal everyday nature. I don't really buy it. Sure there are instances at times maybe. But he is trying to give some paradigm of WOMEN CRAVE SEX AS MUCH AS MEN AND ARE QUITE NORMALLY IN THE MODE TO WANT IT. This is extremely hard to believe without some evidence.

I have given his speech to a number of women. I've done it in a lot of different ways, using different approaches, emphases, sometimes saying more and sometimes saying less depending on my mood in the moment. I have not been in a mode of looking for sex right away, so I'm not surprised that hasn't happened yet.

That said, every woman I know has found the ideas at least interesting or compelling, I have a few converts. I have to say, Johnny really helped me find how I want to live my life. And I really like this notion of sexual friendship.

The other thing is how much he refers to knowing or hooking up with people in porn or the sex industry. Does this count as everyday situations between everyday men and women? I kind of think not.

I know a few escorts and they really appreciated what I had to say. Then again, so did some of the most "cartel oriented" people I know. The more prudish a girl is, the more I find she appreciates what I have to say.

I do think he gives a lot of practical and good advice. Men and women being friends before or during being lovers. Great! This is a kind of common sense approach that many "experts" would advise. More common sense things like getting a woman's guard down. Of course very true. Creating an environment where the stupid tensions of a battle of the sexes, or men and women being some "other" mentality is eliminated. Absolutely agree with many of these points.

True, some of this stuff has been approached in a slightly different way.

So tell me. What do you think? How much do you think Soporno is right? Or does your B.S. meter go off at all from some of what he says?

I think it's brilliant. I have a really hard time explaining it to people - it's so different. It's been a bit frustrating at first that it takes so long for me to explain who I am. But I'm figuring it out.

Izza