Relationship Drama Tonight

[roxyruby]

I talked to my boyfriend on the phone saying I will be on msn waiting for you, he said Ok he'll just have dinner and watch tv while he's eating dinner

About an hour later I'm on msn and I phone him up. He says he'll come on soon. 40 minutes later he comes on msn and I tell him I'm feeling sad/hurt cause ive been waiting for him and i feel sorta unimportant.

he says there was something really good on TV that he just had to finish watching then talks about what he was watching on TV.



this makes me more sad, If it was the other way around, I would come on msn asap for him, he is way above TV etc to me, but it seems like the value difference is alot smaller for him

he also says he wishes he could do both (watch tv and talk to me)

This furthur makes me angry/sad because this seems to me like to him me and watching TV have the same level of value and interest to him

I explain this to him saying oh no I want u to continue watching TV if that is being yourself, it just makes me hurt

he gets annoyed, i came on here to talk to you he says

he says why are you trying to make me feel bad, you're trying to make me feel guilty

he says I never knew you were so controlling

This is a real stab to my heart and I feel even more low, angry and sad

I say something like I would never want to be like that so you can always break up with me because id rather be alone than be like that to someone

he says it sounds like you want to break up with me

he tells me shouldn't you change yourself instead of breaking up with someone

CHANGE! I thought, what have I done wrong? I realized I have not gone about things in the best way obviously since it caused bad emotions in him and I apologized

I tried to be as rational as I could throughout and say sorry where I felt id said something wrong or incorrect

But I need a different perspective. Was I doing something wrong? Was he doing something wrong? were we both? was it a misunderstanding?

Would love someone to give their opinions

[Angela]

He didn't do what you want him to do, and you made that mean that you are worth less and are less interesting than what he chose to do.

Then you behaved as if that's "The Truth." You explained to him that you want him to continue to watch tv if that is being himself, but that it hurts you if he does.

He heard you explain to him that *shouldn't* continue to watch tv, he *shouldn't* be himself, because that all means that he is hurting you, and that is something he definitely *shouldn't* do. He heard you manipulating him -- trying to get him to do what you want him to do, because you want him to do it. He also heard your big fat lie.

And then, because you were feeling hurt and reactivated, you really went into manipulation territory: "You can just break up with me because I'd rather be alone that be like that to someone."

I can see where he'd get pretty irritated by that, can't you? Can you hear the passive aggression in that statement? If someone is behaving in a way that doesn't work for you, it's your responsibility to do something about it, not his. And you don't really want to be alone rather than be how you're being, because you're being how you're being, rather than being alone. So it just occurs as an ultimatum. Yuck, right?

And all of this comes from habitual old pain, and how it gets reactivated. It's as if your unconscious mind is LOOKING for ways to reactivate your old pain belief about yourself (which probably sounds something like "I'm worthless" or "I'm uninteresting") that you decided a long time ago, when you were itty bitty, and something happened and you made this decision about yourself so that you'd be able to cope -- an itty bitty person doesn't have a whole lot of resources available to her, and she copes as best she can.

And now you're a grown-up, and you can, if you choose to, access more mature and powerful inner resources. You can notice that you have everything you need in order to feel good all the time, regardless of what your boyfriend or anyone else says, thinks, or does.

Wouldn't it be nice to reclaim that infinite power?

[roxyruby]

Thanks for that, I see what I've done and I feel really bad about it! I decided after to not go that way again in "arguing" and i was already in a bad mood which is a major cause for me getting into a fight with him so maybe I should have told him I can't talk right now and gone somewhere to calm down before I talked to him so a fight wouldnt start. i Don't wanna talk to my boyfriend for a while cause of the pain even though I prob should but I'm already feeling realy down on myself and I know he'll be angry at me and will keep saying what I've done wrong & also cause I feel so bad and feel like I'm not good enough now or something

Calming down afterwards I realized we are both just human beings and I should just enjoy time with him and not focus on imperfections or whatever!

I know maybe I have some deep bad beliefs about myself I do know that I have struggled with very low self esteem though atleast I think it is Alot better than it used to be haha

thanks for your opinion I really appreciate it cause I reallyy needed a 3rd person perspective

[RT Wolf]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

I explain this to him saying oh no I want u to continue watching TV if that is being yourself, it just makes me hurt

Why don't you just ask him to change?

You're not really putting up effective boundaries. For example, you don't seem to have a hard boundary at when you feel like you're not being valued.

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

Why don't you just ask him to change?

You're not really putting up effective boundaries. For example, you don't seem to have a hard boundary at when you feel like you're not being valued.

I was confused, because I was suspecting that maybe he wasn't actually doing anything wrong, and I wasn't sure if he was actually doing anything wrong.

I did feel devalued but wasn't sure if this was self esteem related and because of me already feeling down about some other issues.

Also I am afraid asking him to change will start a fight and he will like me less.

If I Did put up an effective boundary and asked him to change though, what would I do if he didn;t change and kept doing the same thing?

[Angela]

Roxyruby, I just clicked on your sig link, and I had to laugh, because you have posted all this great advice for others on this very matter!

So, when are you going to notice that everything you think you are saying to others is just you talking to the mirror? When will you be willing to listen to what your unconscious mind is trying to get through your thick skull?

You've got all the resources you need... do you think it's time to powerfully access all your inner resources now?

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

Also I am afraid asking him to change will start a fight and he will like me less.

Yep, you run that chance. Choice time. What's more important to you? Peace and a not satisfactory relationship that's making you feel less worthy? Or a deeply satisfying relationship with (sometimes) a big fight?

Fighting is not so bad in itself. It can clear the air too, or should, actually.

If I Did put up an effective boundary and asked him to change though, what would I do if he didn;t change and kept doing the same thing?

If you set a boundary, you have to be willing to keep that boundary. Otherwise don't set it in the first place.

BTW, you can ask someone to change, but he's not obliged to. I find it much more empowering to change my own behaviour, and see how the other person responds to that. Plus, you can initiate! You don't have to wait for him!

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by Angela

Roxyruby, I just clicked on your sig link, and I had to laugh, because you have posted all this great advice for others on this very matter!

So, when are you going to notice that everything you think you are saying to others is just you talking to the mirror? When will you be willing to listen to what your unconscious mind is trying to get through your thick skull?

You've got all the resources you need... do you think it's time to powerfully access all your inner resources now?

Thanks Angela...this post confused me because I wasn't quite sure exactly what you were saying..

what is my unconscious mind trying to tell me?

Hehe I understand about my link... Yes I know , I guess it is easy to read and write the advice and quotes intellectually and believe them, I suppose some times I have been caught up in other things and the sort of old way of thinking of yourself comes up.

I found some really nice self-worth affirmations I might print out and try reading to myself every day.

I also read the quotes on my site and listen to empowering/positive songs which often helps a lot and puts me in a better frame of mind and more healthy attitude.

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Yep, you run that chance. Choice time. What's more important to you? Peace and a not satisfactory relationship that's making you feel less worthy? Or a deeply satisfying relationship with (sometimes) a big fight?

Fighting is not so bad in itself. It can clear the air too, or should, actually.



If you set a boundary, you have to be willing to keep that boundary. Otherwise don't set it in the first place.

BTW, you can ask someone to change, but he's not obliged to. I find it much more empowering to change my own behaviour, and see how the other person responds to that. Plus, you can initiate! You don't have to wait for him!

Thanks for that! Yes things are mostly fine and enjoyable with him, usually a fight only happens If I get into a bad mood first. I think If my own self esteem was improved there would probably be a lot less issues. He is usually the one that tells me I'm crazy for having low self esteem & makes me feel a lot better by bringing me back up to healthy positive thoughts

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

...
I think If my own self esteem was improved there would probably be a lot less issues.
...

How about using active language? Nobody can improve your self esteem but you.

Try it out. Say it out loud as you wrote it here.

Then say: If I improve my self esteem I will experience ...

Notice the difference?

[James81]

I'll echo everything Angela said. She's right on the money.

Let's look at the facts:

1. You told him you would be WAITING for him to come MSN, instead of establishing a SPECIFIC time to come on MSN. So, there's your first mistake. You would have a leg to stand on IF you had said "Hey, why don't you get on MSN at X o'clock?" and worked out a time together to which you can get on MSN.

2. He told you that he would come on AFTER eating dinner and watching some TV. And that's EXACTLY when he came on.

3. You then got impatient and CALLED him, therefore pressuring him to get on when YOU wanted him to get on, and not when he told you he was going to get on. This, basically, is clingy behavior. And a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR turn off. No guy wants a girl pressuring him to give her attention all the time.

And then you reinforced that behavior by making him feel guilty and manipulating him when he DID get on to talk to you. Imagine how much better things would have been if you hadn't rode him about doing his thing when he came on, and instead just had a good MSN convo? Instead of drumming up this manipulative fight, you would have probably made a connection somewhere and moved your relationship forward (if even just a little bit), but instead you have taken it a little bit BAKCWARD and to boot you've frustrated HIM.

Stop looking at things in terms of what is more important to him. You know that OBVIOUSLY some stupid TV program isn't more important than you are. Deep down you have to realize that. Somebody who DOES make it more important than flesh and blook interaction with their girlfriend is really truly rare. His manner of thinking is that the TV program has a specific time frame in which he can watch it, and if he chooses to do something else during that time he'll miss it. You DON'T have a specific time and you can enjoy each other whenever you want. So, for the love of Pete, let the man watch his TV program in peace.

Instead, focus on the reasons why you are trying to manipulate him. What insecurities do you have that are making you act this way? What fears are driving you that you feel like you are in competition with everything else, and even something as simple as a TV program?

The problem here is with you, not him. And I don't say that to make you feel bad. Or make you feel guilty. Just want to open your eyes and encourage you to face these insecurities and fears so that you can have a HEALTHY relationship, and not one that is based on competition and manipulation.

[Andy4]

Roxy,

You could never be unimportant.

I must admit I did find the conversation a bit strange.Us men can be a bit thick and insensitive at times.How did the pair of you turn a conversation on msn into a breakup situation?.That's mad.However you are right to be a bit miffed but dont get so emotional,dont let it show.

Personally I think that it is important for the woman to retain control of the relationship especially in the early stages,once you both get comfortable with each other the power balances out.

If you suffer with low self esteem you must deal with this.Its a lot easier than you may feel.You sounded so bubbly and happy when you posted me on your birthday,and I'm sure you've had a couple of really big posts that I've seen.You are likeable and popular!

Start small about what you like about yourself and your confidence will begin to grow.Your on the right side of things because people prefer modesty to conceitedness.

Make him/them chase you,dont be with anyone who doesnt worship you,believe in yourself and others will follow.Talk is cheap,but dont settle for second best you deserve better.Your boyfriend mentioned control,yeah if he wants to be with you he needs to win your favour,if he doesnt measure up then move on.

Respect true love and romance are vital.Stuff the T.V.

Good luck with all this,relationships are never easy.


Regards,Andy.

[pianoperformer]

Originally Posted by James81

I'll echo everything Angela said. She's right on the money.

Let's look at the facts:

1. You told him you would be WAITING for him to come MSN, instead of establishing a SPECIFIC time to come on MSN. So, there's your first mistake. You would have a leg to stand on IF you had said "Hey, why don't you get on MSN at X o'clock?" and worked out a time together to which you can get on MSN.

2. He told you that he would come on AFTER eating dinner and watching some TV. And that's EXACTLY when he came on.

3. You then got impatient and CALLED him, therefore pressuring him to get on when YOU wanted him to get on, and not when he told you he was going to get on. This, basically, is clingy behavior. And a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR turn off. No guy wants a girl pressuring him to give her attention all the time.

And then you reinforced that behavior by making him feel guilty and manipulating him when he DID get on to talk to you. Imagine how much better things would have been if you hadn't rode him about doing his thing when he came on, and instead just had a good MSN convo? Instead of drumming up this manipulative fight, you would have probably made a connection somewhere and moved your relationship forward (if even just a little bit), but instead you have taken it a little bit BAKCWARD and to boot you've frustrated HIM.

Stop looking at things in terms of what is more important to him. You know that OBVIOUSLY some stupid TV program isn't more important than you are. Deep down you have to realize that. Somebody who DOES make it more important than flesh and blook interaction with their girlfriend is really truly rare. His manner of thinking is that the TV program has a specific time frame in which he can watch it, and if he chooses to do something else during that time he'll miss it. You DON'T have a specific time and you can enjoy each other whenever you want. So, for the love of Pete, let the man watch his TV program in peace.

Instead, focus on the reasons why you are trying to manipulate him. What insecurities do you have that are making you act this way? What fears are driving you that you feel like you are in competition with everything else, and even something as simple as a TV program?

The problem here is with you, not him. And I don't say that to make you feel bad. Or make you feel guilty. Just want to open your eyes and encourage you to face these insecurities and fears so that you can have a HEALTHY relationship, and not one that is based on competition and manipulation.

+1

Said everything I was thinking. I just didn't know how to put it nicely.

[RT Wolf]

Even the best couples have arguments. In fact, it's the sign of a healthy relationship to have disagreements, the difference between the relationship that lasts and one that doesn't, according to the work of John Gottman (who claims to predict whether a relationship with over 90% accuracy over 7 years) is HOW they fight.

In fact, if you don't fight, that might be a sign that one or both are suppressing issues for fear of disagreement.

BTW, I don't think it's either-or. I don't it's a question of whether you can improve your self-esteem or whether he can change. It can be both.

Other than that, I agree mostly with whatever else has been said, especially Angela and James81.

Good luck, sinora!

[roxyruby]

Thankyou spirit4711, RT Wolf, pianoperformer, Andy4 & James 81, I really appreciate your perspective on things and helping me to see what really happenned.

I realized while i was talking with my bf that i should have asked him what time he'd be on & actually told him that

i guess its only rarely that something like this happens

i stuffed up and wish i realized what i was doing, i didn't want to hurt him, but i really believed at the time & was paranoid that he was caring less about me and he wasn't seeing me as special and important

& yes, I regularly work on improving my self esteem

Thanks Andy4 for the compliment i cant deny i realy enjoyed that & it made me smile

[roxyruby]

Well my boyfriend must have sent me a really long email last night before he went to bed. I really wasn't expecting it. He said sorry and it was full of love and understanding and empathy.

Here is a picture he put into the email



He says I am his world and how important and special I am I emailed him back of course saying sorry as well & everything i had been thinking afterwards

[Parthon]

Just as an aside. I'm guessing your boyfriend is also a pretty interesting guy. The trick about interesting guys is that they have many interests. It's not that you are more important than any one of them, but that he needs a varied mix of all kinds of experiences to keep himself from getting bored.

If you imagine yourself as the most delicious and superb chocolate icecream ever, he would always like you over all other icecreams. But he wouldn't be able to eat it all the time, because he'd get sick of it. It works the same way with people much of the time. If he had constant contact with just you, he'd get bored, no matter how awesome you were. The trick is to do interesting things together.

If you could imagine the kind of guy that did do everything you wanted, when you wanted it, if he didn't watch TV or have any activities that distracted him from paying you attention and in general was just a lump during the time he wasn't around you, he'd be a very boring person. The sort of person that would be extra devoted and all over you even when you didn't want it, you would probably call clingy, and dump him quick smart.

Accept your boyfriend for the multifaceted interesting individual he is.

[roxyruby]

Just as an aside. I'm guessing your boyfriend is also a pretty interesting guy. The trick about interesting guys is that they have many interests. It's not that you are more important than any one of them, but that he needs a varied mix of all kinds of experiences to keep himself from getting bored.

If you imagine yourself as the most delicious and superb chocolate icecream ever, he would always like you over all other icecreams. But he wouldn't be able to eat it all the time, because he'd get sick of it. It works the same way with people much of the time. If he had constant contact with just you, he'd get bored, no matter how awesome you were. The trick is to do interesting things together.

If you could imagine the kind of guy that did do everything you wanted, when you wanted it, if he didn't watch TV or have any activities that distracted him from paying you attention and in general was just a lump during the time he wasn't around you, he'd be a very boring person. The sort of person that would be extra devoted and all over you even when you didn't want it, you would probably call clingy, and dump him quick smart.

Accept your boyfriend for the multifaceted interesting individual he is.

You're absolutely right and I agree with everything you said. Thankyou!

[spirit4711]

Originally Posted by roxyruby

You're absolutely right and I agree with everything you said. Thankyou!

Have you told your boyfriend already how interesting he is to you?

[roxyruby]

Originally Posted by spirit4711

Have you told your boyfriend already how interesting he is to you?

na i havent will have to aye!