Porn and Relationships

[Farryn]

I'm sorry but this is going to be a muddled and long post because I'm really upset right now while I'm writing it:

I just discovered that my boyfriend looks at internet porn, and I absolutely hate it. It makes me feel wretched and undesirable.

I HATE feeling like my looks are the most important thing about me. I hate living in a society where looks and sexual satisfaction take priority over real people and real feelings. I hate it that I feel pressured to be beautiful all the time. I hate feeling like I'm not enough for him. It breaks my heart that so many women have to deal with this issue. I hate it that women are seen as objects, and I hate it that women have to accept this dynamic every day.

I was going to break up with my boyfriend over this but girlfriends and family reminded me that all men look at porn and that I should just accept it. Because, they said, it doesn't have anything to do with me or with how he feels about me. It doesn't mean that he doens't think I'm beautiful.

So fine. I decided to try to spice things up for him that night (assuming that I wasn't enough previously)... but I ended up drinking too much wine and getting really upset. Then he was thinking about breaking up with ME because I got very upset and wasn't very nice to him.

Where do I go from here? I don't like porn. It makes me feel bad about myself, our society, and it makes me feel sorry for women. But I'm reading the Power of Now right now and maybe I'm just supposed to accept what IS and not fight my current situation. Maybe it's not a big deal that he looks at porn. I ended up telling him that I didn't mind that he watches it but I DO!! Now I feel like I can't bring it up... He wants us to both focus on finding happiness outside of the relationship because of this (with friends etc) so that this sort of thing won't be such a big deal and make me so unhappy.

What the heck? Shouldn't porn be left out of relationships (watching it by yoruself, I mean)?? or is that too much to ask?? Or am I just way too insecure?

[Farryn]

I would NEVER ask him not to watch it because I think that's controlling... I just wish he would stop because he cares about me... Or I wish that it didn't bother me

[Cron]

I think it is natural to look at erotic pictures, films and stories.

I think porn has become something else for many people. Something compulsive and damaging.

The time for porn comes to an end when you are in a steady relationship IMHO.

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by Farryn

I just discovered that my boyfriend looks at internet porn, and I absolutely hate it. It makes me feel wretched and undesirable.

Have you asked him why he looks at porn? What you've said sounds like you're assuming all the reasons he's doing it without actually asking him. I doubt it has anything to do with finding you unattractive or undesirable. Although that is the first thing women usually assume based on what I've seen, so your reaction is pretty normal. Porn is actually a complex issue I think. It becomes habitual, and like any habit it's very difficult to break. It may also be encouraged by his male friends.

Once I had a friend who was in a long term relationship (a couple of years) and he still looked at porn. His girlfriend was aware of it, and I could see that she wasn't happy about it but apparently she didn't try to get him to stop. I couldn't understand why he needed it since he was in a very good relationship, but since I've never been in a relationship myself yet I have no personal experience that I can use to explain it.

All I can say is that you should talk to him about it to find out his reasons for looking at porn. I think that it wouldn't be too far fetched to say that most men look at porn to some extent, but if it really bothers you there's no reason why you can't tell him that. There's also no reason why he can't stop looking at it, especially if he truly cares about you and knows that it hurts you.

[Erock]

I think it's really interesting seeing posts about porn and sex from men and women's points of view. As a 17 year old male, let me tell you that, at least from my personal experience, men are addicted to masturbating, not porn. I honestly feel it is because we, as men, have failed to learn how to circulate and control the immense sexual energy we are given. And because we have spent so many years just releasing it day after day, it becomes impossible to sustain. We don't need the pleasure of sex, but the release of all of the energy that comes with ejaculation.

Because most men's systems cannot sustain this energy, women become a tool or an object. That is why men objectify women so much. The better looking a woman is, the faster they can release, and so she is more valuable in a man's mind.

Now, what is the solution to this? I think men need to curb the addiction to ejaculation. If they did, women would not be treated as objects, and men would be much better lovers (last much longer). They wouldn't need to look at porn, or have sex every day or two. They could also use this energy for more productive means. Napoleon Hill talks about this and he calls it Sexual Transmutation, or using sexual energy for things other than sex. David Deida talks about how men need to learn to circulate their sexual energy, and I think this is really true.

Anyway, I can understand why you are offended, but realize that your boyfriend is like 99% of other men, and I guarentee you the reason he looks at porn is not because he doesn't like you, but because he is addicted to the release of energy.

[Karma Police]

Is it the porn that's causing you to suffer, or your feelings and thoughts about it? You cannot change your boyfriend, you can only change yourself.

Keep reading and practicing the Power of Now. It may be this challenge is needed to teach you acceptance of your circumstances and your feelings. You may still decide to end your relationship, but let this teach you acceptance.

[Dharma]

This is about you, not your boyfriend.

When you see your boyfriend looking at porn, you think:
I absolutely hate it.
It makes me feel wretched and undesirable.
I HATE feeling like my looks are the most important thing about me.
I hate living in a society where looks and sexual satisfaction take priority over real people and real feelings.
I hate it that I feel pressured to be beautiful all the time.
I hate feeling like I'm not enough for him.
It breaks my heart that so many women have to deal with this issue.
I hate it that women are seen as objects.
I hate it that women have to accept this dynamic every day.
[porn] makes me feel bad about myself, our society, and it makes me feel sorry for women.

The porn just reminds you that you are the one pressuring you to be beautiful all the time, that you see yourself as an object, that you feel you're not enough, that you do this to yourself everyday and you hate it but you see no other way of doing it.

And the more you hold it in, the more pressurized you get and later blow up at your boyfriend.

Yeah, you need to practice acceptance of self. Can you look in the mirror and say "I love me, now"? That might be something to practice even if it sounds corny. A lot of your focus is on what you're not, not what you are.

they said, it doesn't have anything to do with me or with how he feels about me. It doesn't mean that he doens't think I'm beautiful.

Absolutely! Do you ask him to tell you how beautiful you are? (What? You shouldn't have to ask? Get over that one. If he doesn't tell you that means you don't want to go there. )

Do a reality check with him: "Hey boyfriend, I feel like I'm not beautiful enough when you look at porn. Does looking at porn mean you don't think I'm beautiful?" It doesn't have to be a big thing... if you think he might be sensitive since the argument with him, tell him your working on this issue and you need to do a reality check for yourself.

[cylon]

I think we should move towards a world where women don't feel objectified, and men don't feel ashamed for being turned on all the time.

[mtrimpe]

@Erock: It's funny to see that 'a 17 year old male' gets it SO right.

@Farrin: Your man is releasing sexual energy he cannot contain within himself or release with you, emphasis on cannot! It's as simple as that.

A solution that's guaranteed to work:

1. Read Paul Hoch's "White Hero, Black Beast" to understand the causes of male sexual difficulties far more precisely than 99% of the men and women in this society. (OK, that's not really necessary but it's one of the books in my 'Must Read For Everyone In Western Society' category)
2. Say the following to your partner: "You agree to no longer masturbate or watch porn and I agree to always make myself available for fulfilling your sexual desires, deal?"

[tropicality]

Originally Posted by Erock

I think it's really interesting seeing posts about porn and sex from men and women's points of view. As a 17 year old male, let me tell you that, at least from my personal experience, men are addicted to masturbating, not porn. I honestly feel it is because we, as men, have failed to learn how to circulate and control the immense sexual energy we are given. And because we have spent so many years just releasing it day after day, it becomes impossible to sustain. We don't need the pleasure of sex, but the release of all of the energy that comes with ejaculation.

Because most men's systems cannot sustain this energy, women become a tool or an object. That is why men objectify women so much. The better looking a woman is, the faster they can release, and so she is more valuable in a man's mind.

Now, what is the solution to this? I think men need to curb the addiction to ejaculation. If they did, women would not be treated as objects, and men would be much better lovers (last much longer). They wouldn't need to look at porn, or have sex every day or two. They could also use this energy for more productive means. Napoleon Hill talks about this and he calls it Sexual Transmutation, or using sexual energy for things other than sex. David Deida talks about how men need to learn to circulate their sexual energy, and I think this is really true.

Anyway, I can understand why you are offended, but realize that your boyfriend is like 99% of other men, and I guarentee you the reason he looks at porn is not because he doesn't like you, but because he is addicted to the release of energy.

You hit it right on the spot. You may be interested in this website: ENERGY WORK: Helping males to understand & use their Sexual Energy. ....I personally practice it and the benefits are obvious. Though this site is tailored to men - I think it could still be done with women the same way.. I may be wrong though - you'd have to try it out!

In fact - Farryn, I would recommend you have your boyfriend study and practice what is on that website, it will make your sex way better and he will probably look at porn less... That is if he can control himself in order to practice what is on that site.

[Michael Chui]

I do know a number of couples who watch porn together and recommend videos, stories, pictures that they like to one another. I suspect that some of them might experiment with some of the things they see within their own relationship: it's certainly a method to discover insight into your partner's sexual appetites, whether such discoveries are good or ill.

[Erock]

Originally Posted by tropicality

You hit it right on the spot. You may be interested in this website: ENERGY WORK: Helping males to understand & use their Sexual Energy. ....I personally practice it and the benefits are obvious. Though this site is tailored to men - I think it could still be done with women the same way.. I may be wrong though - you'd have to try it out!

In fact - Farryn, I would recommend you have your boyfriend study and practice what is on that website, it will make your sex way better and he will probably look at porn less... That is if he can control himself in order to practice what is on that site.

Hey thanks for the site. Yeah, I've definately struggled with this, and there should be more resources on the topic, because most guys are completely in the dark. I mean, it's not like it's an external drug that you can quit using, it's your own body that's demanding it, and I have definately had times where I feel helpless.

[Mitja]

Originally Posted by Erock

I honestly feel it is because we, as men, have failed to learn how to circulate and control the immense sexual energy we are given.

I believe we can put an end to it. I recommend reading Awaken Healing Energy Through the Tao Cultivating Male Sexual Energy by Mantak and Maneewan Chia. I have a translated copy, but can't find the original on the net with that exact title. The closest one is this: Taoist Secrets of Love: Cultivating Male Sexual Energy.

I also recommend this book although I haven't read it myself yet.

[Jill]

Like Michael Chui mentioned, I would suggest that you perhaps look at it with him. Maybe find some that you both enjoy.

If that's completely distasteful to you, you might want to think about why that is. There's nothing inherently *wrong* with porn nor masturbation. And there's no reason, imo, to curb either of them if it's not conflicting with other aspects of your life. (Or in this case, your bf's life.)

If your bf was not having sex with you because he was too busy with the porn, that would be a concern that you might want to get to the bottom of.

[Eli]

Farryn:
I have felt pain in my life with certain situations so I can say that I feel your pain. It could possibly be something a bit deeper than just a so called passing fancey that he is going through. It may be an addiction and if so he needs some sort of help that you cannot give him and if it truely pains as you say it does then this is pain you carry for years to come if you stay and he does not get help or just stops doing it. No woman should have to contend with computer porn if do not wish to. It sounds asthough your heart is in the relationship completely but you can't make something work that will not. It also sounds like he is a manipulater of sorts. If he says he wants to break-up because of the way you feel then do so for your own happiness.........Peace.......Eli....good luck...

[Farryn]

Thanks for the replies ... Karma police and Dharma, your replies made me cry because I felt their truth. I don't want my pain to continue and even though I wrote this post hoping to hear some people agree with me, I know that if they agreed, it would only increase my pain and my belief that I have some right or identity in that pain.

As for the posts on male sexual energy (this might be my pain talking, but whatever): I feel like that's an excuse men use to cheat, stare at women, objectify them... etc. I don't see how men and women are that different sexually - that men have some need to release their sexual energy in ways that are demeaning to women but women don't need to do that to men. It angers me.

I haven't said a word to my boyfriend since the night I got really upset about the porn. I've been trying not to resist reality and not to judge myself or bring past hurts into the equation. I've been happy for the most part but sometimes it's a bit of a fight with myself.

Just now for instance. I'm at his place, his MSN is on, and one of those porn emails popped up. I had to move away from the computer and work soooo hard not to let that same pain resurface. He came in the room and asked what I was doing. I told him. He held me and told me to let it go. He tried to give me some of his 'positive' energy (as he said).

I was able to let it go but part of me still doens't want to. Now I want to ask him if it's an addiction, I want to ask him ... so many things! I worry that I'd get lost again in my negative emotions if I started to talk to him about it.

Now I keep wondering: If he cares about me and sees how much it hurts me, shouldn't he stop watching it??

[Farryn]

I forgot about that: I think I'd find it difficult to watch porn with my boyfriend. I believe that sexual stimulation ect should come from your partner, not strangers (again though: is that just my identity talking??) ... so I'd find it difficult.

Are some women okay with watching porn with their men?? I'm sure there are... But I wonder if it's because they are trying to please the man or if they actually enjoy watching it. I see porn as objectifying women, but maybe other women don't see it that way??

What about the fact though that a man's erect penis apparnetly can't be shown in a magazine etc... ??? Isn't that proof that it's not equal and that only women are objectified?? I almost think that both should be objectified (since it will never be corrected for women) then this would be an easier subject to deal with (for me at least)!!

The truth of it though: I don't want to be upset anymore. I want to let it go. I don't want to ask him to work on things and I don't want to have to work so hard to improve our sex life or to evalutate his. I want to let it go. It feels better to let it go even though it's scary (I came to the realization that it felt better to let it go after feeling so much joy reading the posts from Karma Police and Dharma mentioned earlier). Is it okay for me to let it go?? Or am I ignoring a possibly huge problem in our relationship??? Or a huge indication that he doesn't care about me???

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Farryn

I don't see how men and women are that different sexually - that men have some need to release their sexual energy in ways that are demeaning to women but women don't need to do that to men. It angers me.

They aren't. Plenty of women have a similar need to relieve themselves sexually and aren't above using fantasizing to heighten arousal in the absence of a partner. Have you ever read a romance novel? Sure, it works differently, because men and women are different, sexually, but the essential mechanic is the same. And by that same token, plenty of men do not view porn or fantasize.

I think that the men and women who happen to both like watching porn have less problems watching it together. If that's not for you, then it's not for you.

Originally Posted by Farryn

I've been happy for the most part but sometimes it's a bit of a fight with myself.

That sounds like the crux of the problem.

Originally Posted by Farryn

Now I keep wondering: If he cares about me and sees how much it hurts me, shouldn't he stop watching it??

So that he ends up fighting himself and being forced to constantly choose between you and his porn? I would offer this question as a different perspective: why shouldn't you start watching it because you care about him?

I want to hasten to add that I'm definitely not suggesting it, but it's an equally valid question.

Originally Posted by Farryn

Are some women okay with watching porn with their men?? I'm sure there are... But I wonder if it's because they are trying to please the man or if they actually enjoy watching it. I see porn as objectifying women, but maybe other women don't see it that way??

In some of the cases I've heard of, the man was treated to some bits he had neither expected nor really wanted to see.

Does porn objectify people? Yes, of course it does. The purpose of pornography is to increase the arousal of its viewers. People are generally not aroused by the nuances of legal strategy, even if it offers an in-depth view of people. Arousal stems from sexual display, imagined or real.

There is, for instance, an incredible amount of gay porn on the Internet. Does it objectify women? That's a really hard case to make. Standard hetero porn objectifies the men as much as the women: the men typically don't even have names. Is it really the women being demeaned?

Porn is a lens. When you watch it, people become sexual creatures, interested only in sex of one kind or another. Other details are either props or irrelevant. You put it on, you take it off.

I say this because the problem you seem to be facing does not appear to be the porn itself, but the way you look at it. I went and found this on Wikipedia:

Pornography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Farryn]

Thanks, Michael That sounds good to me. You're right in that women aren't the only ones objectified by porn. I guess I was focusing on a majority and running with it... but I failed to notice the other types of porn.

I love it that you turned the question around to me (why shouldn't I watch porn for him??). That made me laugh and realize how it's unfair and unrealistic to expect him to stop because he cares about me (I wouldn't start watching it just because I care about him - I wouldn't enjoy it at all). I feel uncomfortable with the idea of him stopping for me because it's restrictive of who he is. I want to be in a relationship where each of us is free to be exactly who we are.

That link was an eye opener too!

[smallstar]

I'm lucky to have a fianceé who watches porn even by herself sometimes. She is wise enough to realize that all men watch porn (as she says), and confident enough to know that I'd never compare her with porn. If she catches me watching it by myself, she can get my full attention in about .5 secs with a right word or gesture. One more reason to thank the world for me having her.

What are you afraid of?

If you'd like to have more sex from him, then just take it. Tease him about the MSN picture, tease him more and give in only after he agrees that you are more beautiful, and matter more to him than all the 10000000 porn pics in the world. If you are afraid of him really prefering someone else he sees in porn over you, you either need to get real, or to get a new man. If you are really unsure, ask a serious, direct question. Don't pressure him or force him to quit, just ask him for the information.

In other words: either him watching porn is just a symptom that something is wrong with your relationship (don't blame the symptom, blame the cause) or it's just harmless way of self-release and you have nothing to be afraid of (you also look at foreign men sometimes, don't you)?

If you are still not comfortable, just ask him to be more discrete with his porn. As a good man, he will understand.

[mtrimpe]

Farryn, I know that you might think that I don't 'get it', but I am a man and so is my boyfriend and I definitely do get it. I've also been the one lying in bed in terrible anguish wondering what it says about me, wondering why he can't spend that same energy and arousal on me, feeling the pressure to be more beautiful, more willing, more ... just more. I also went through the exact stages you're going through right now, pretending to be OK with it and even