Porn and Relationships

[Chemgirl]

Hi. Thanks to everyone that has posted here, it has helped me because last week I found out my bf had been looking at girls in their underwear on the net. The kind of thing you see in fhm. I took it really badly, I was devastated because he always said 'I don't need to look at other girls, you are the only one for me' and I felt it was all a lie.

We talked about it because I knew I couldn't forget what I had seen and he was really understanding of how I felt. I was scared he would just say 'I'm a man and it's natural' but he really knew how betrayed I felt. We are trying to work things out and since I confronted him he his trying so hard to earn my trust.

My problem at the moment is I can't quite let go. I can't be naked in front of him at the moment because I feel inadequate compared to the pictures I saw, and we used to be naked every moment we were home. I still wonder if he thinks of them when he kisses me and we have sex, even though he said he never did before I had to ask. I know I am very insecure about myself, especially my looks and I have really low self esteem, which just got lower. I know it's mostly about how bad I feel about myself - if I had better self worth and less doubts about how someone like him could love me I would be able to forget it easier.

Does anyone have some advice, I'm scared I will never heal and I will always compare myself to the pictures I saw and feel I'm not enough for him. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[Dr Gonzo]

Originally Posted by Chemgirl

Hi. Thanks to everyone that has posted here, it has helped me because last week I found out my bf had been looking at girls in their underwear on the net. The kind of thing you see in fhm. I took it really badly, I was devastated because he always said 'I don't need to look at other girls, you are the only one for me' and I felt it was all a lie.

You are attempting to get validation that you are attractive from outside, from your boyfriend. This will never satisfy you and you will always feel insecure unless you learn to feel attractive from within, without anyone else needing to do anything to reassure you. There is a way to learn to do this - it works every time, it will not be easy, but you can do it if you really want to change.

We talked about it because I knew I couldn't forget what I had seen and he was really understanding of how I felt. I was scared he would just say 'I'm a man and it's natural' but he really knew how betrayed I felt. We are trying to work things out and since I confronted him he his trying so hard to earn my
trust.

You "confronted" him - with what? The accusation that he has a normal, natural sex drive?

I think this guy is fool for trying to suck up to your insecure attitude. I'm sorry if this offends you - I don't say it to be abrasive, I say it because I think you have something to learn from this. I'm sure he's great in other ways, and I'm sure he has your best interests at heart, but he's inadvertently reinforcing your insecurities, and in the long term that will only make you unhappy.

Instead of him supporting you in your insecurities, he would serve you better by forcing you to confront the reasons why you feel so threatened by something so insignificant as this.

My problem at the moment is I can't quite let go. I can't be naked in front of him at the moment because I feel inadequate compared to the pictures I saw

If you want to change stop this now. You know that whiny little voice in your head that says "He doesn't love me", "he thinks I'm ugly", "he thinks I'm fat" and similar things? Here's what you do: When you hear that voice, immediately hear another stronger more confident voice say "shut the ************ up" - then you get naked and do what you were afraid of. You have to confront this - head on. No half measures.

I still wonder if he thinks of them when he kisses me and we have sex, even though he said he never did before I had to ask.

No, I don't expect he does think of them, but if you keep acting so insecure, wierd and un-sexy he is bound to start looking for other women who know how to treat a man.

I know I am very insecure about myself, especially my looks and I have really low self esteem, which just got lower.

Well you know what they say about rock bottom - the only way from there is up.

I know it's mostly about how bad I feel about myself - if I had better self worth and less doubts about how someone like him could love me I would be able to forget it easier.

Here's my advice. Download some pictures of what you consider to be attractive men and women in various states of undress, maybe download some video porn which you like. Watch it with him. Honestly share between you what you find attractive or exciting about the men and women in this porn. When a negative or insecure feeling comes up do your "shut the ************ up" drill in your head and focus again on what is exciting about it, and how you can enjoy turning each other on and giving each other pleasure.

If you want I can point you to a number of resources which will really help you - drop me a PM and I will send you the links.

Gonzo

[Dr Gonzo]

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

Dr. Gonzo,
I disagree with a LOT of your advice.

Good. I expect a lot of people will.

You really believe this is a healthy sex drive?

I don't care what anyone wants to do as long as it's between consenting adults. Wanting to look at naked girls seems healthy enough to me - I can't think of any straight guys I know who don't like looking at naked girls - can you?

Also, you appear to be prescribing porn.

I am.

What are the benefits?

Perhaps she might stop being such a sexually inhibited neurotic bag of nerves.

As a result of this, she would have more success in her relationships with men, less stupid unnecessary emotional drama, higher self esteem and may stop having an unnatural and rather odd aversion to pictures of people in the natural state of undress in which we were all born.

Gonzo

[Dr Gonzo]

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

Dr Gonzo,

I have some questions about your last post but first...

What is a pervert to you? What is perversion to you?

Thanks

I don't find it a useful label at all. I don't think it's useful to label any behaviour between consenting adults as abnormal, since there is no standard for what is normal, everyone is turned on by different things, and I wish them all the best in their varied, wierd and wonderful forms of sexual gratification.

I guess if I had to use the term for anything it would be for non-consentual sex, or sex with minors.

Gonzo

[smallstar]

Cheers,

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

People can do what ever they wish.

This is a great quote, let us analyze the whole situation a bit more from a different viewpoint.

Every relationship bases on an agreement and has its own rules, which may, or may not, cover certain things like watching porn. In this case, it was most probably not explicitly defined in the agreement that watching porn would violate the rules of the relationship. The man implicitly thinks that it is his right to watch porn, whereas the woman implicitly thinks that he should not do it. Thereas, what we have here is a conflict.

1) Global rules do not apply here. Do not have other relationships, other men or other pairs as a guideline, and do not use them as arguments. You should do what you think is best for your relationship, and ignore what "boys" or "feminists" say.

2) Consider the costs of a) yourself accepting the fact that the man watches porn, b) him giving up porn partially or completely, c) him being forced to accept your terms, but however continuing his practice in secret. Consider the impact of each choice to both of you individually, and the strain that is caused to the relationship by each choice.

3) Negotiate. Do not batter the other party with your ethics or morality unless you want to end up in choice c). Do not threaten unless you really feel this is a deal breaker. If you absolutely want him to accept, offer something sweet and sexy in return. If you want compensation, ask him for something similar. Go for win-win, and do not settle until both parties are happy.

Have a Dark day,

-SS

[annie]

I'm not trying to get into the middle of this conversation...I'm just throwing in my own 2 cents.

I'm pretty good about reading energy.....and I can tell you without a doubt that people that view pornography regularly have a much lower energy. It's really quite a shame because I know several men that are "addicted"....After reading lots of studies, they have proven that 7 exposures has the potential of addiction.

I'm just curious how many men out there view pornography and it conflicts with their integrity and they wish like crazy they could break the habit.

I'm really curious. Who looks at porn because it's an addiction and wishes to break that addiction?

[Angela]

Hmm. Y'all seem to be mostly talking about visual porn, especially photographs of women. But there is so much more in the etheric! My favorite is erotic or just plain dirty literature -- for some reason, what arises in the words turns me on more than looking at photos (which also works for me.) Either way, I see it as kind of a favor I can do for Danger Man -- it revs up my engine ahead of time so he can just start driving.

Would the OP be as disturbed if her lover was reading porn, as opposed to watching videos or magazining? It's possible that his imagination might conjure a fantasy creature that is even more impossible to live up to than the 19 year old airbrushed and anal-bleached porn star. Would that make the OP feel less threatened? Amazingly, I agree with Dr. Gonzo that a pornshare and letting go of the inner talk is a good idea to help dissipate the anxiety and heat up the relationship. (I would recommend acknowledging and letting go of the threatful little voice ("thanks; see ya"), as opposed to telling it to "shut the *** up", just because sometimes the little voice is "fed" by a response that has emotionally charge.)

[Shaden]

A lot (most) men when they see an attractive woman think of sex with her.

A lot of (most) women go to great lengths to make absolutely sure they are attractive. So who is to blame here; the man thinking the sexual thoughts or the woman encouraging such a response.

It's a rhetorical question. That's just how we work as a human race; ultimately we're geared towards procreation. Woman decorates self, man feels attracted to woman, procreation occurs, baby is born, woman cares for baby. Or at least that's how it used to be. Fortunately we've evolved as a society to the point where the woman and the man cares for the baby (a vast improvement I think)

[Angela]

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

Angela ... But seekers of "enlightenment" don't care about what they like or believe unless it's the Highest Truth. You don't appear to be concern with that, and that is the way is 'should' be.

What is OP?

*************

LoveWisdom, you are right. I am utterly unconcerned with anything you or anyone else tells me is the way it 'should' be. Maybe I'm a little more rejective when being lectured, but that's my problem.

As far as I'm concerned, the way it is is the way it should be, because it is the way it is.

OP = Original Poster

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

But think for a minute. This person (woman) is a real person, she has dreams, hopes, fears, likes, dislikes, problems, opportunities, etc. She not a "object" for self gratification.

My favorite porn actress is a freshman undergraduate majoring in Communications. Her stage name is Evelyn Lin. I can't say more about what I know because the general taboo against pornography has made it so that she's worried her involvement will affect her chances of getting a more mainstream job in the future.

One of my chief annoyances with people who denigrate porn is their inability to recognize that the women involved are not merely objects of male gratification. You're objectifying them just as surely as men who jerk off to them do. Prostitutes may generally have little choice, but pornstars generally do.

I discovered this forum last Saturday and spent all night reading this thread. Take a look. Evelyn weighs in herself.

Evelyn Lin - Snowman's Raincoat Reviews Forums (Yes, there are revealing pictures of her in this thread.)

A different actress, Mia Rose, is from Alaska. She started Whores of Warcraft, and is in the porn industry because she enjoys rough sex and can get plenty this way. And she gets paid for it. She reports having had no problem with using the fact that she was a pornstar to get into a WoW guild.

These women don't seem to feel degraded over the fact that thousands of men masturbate to their images. Why should the men who do feel shameful at doing so, when that's the entire point of the enterprise?

Alternatively, take a look at 3-14-07 “Strip Club King” of Tampa | Wallstrip (a few explicit images, no revealing images). Not pornography: this is strip clubs. The reason behind his success, he claims, is because he "open sources" his business. The women choose many of their conditions (it's been a month since I watched it), and they like working for him.

Many of the talent in the porn industry, both male and female, are there because they like sex and they can get paid for it here. The producers and distributors make money off the people who enjoy watching and being aroused and inspired by it. The only losers, in this situation, are the people who think porn has a negative effect on its viewers, and the people they convince to think the same way.

Originally Posted by annie

I'm just curious how many men out there view pornography and it conflicts with their integrity and they wish like crazy they could break the habit.

It did during high school, during which I confessed to a school authority and my pastor. I don't quite remember how the transition went or what initiated it, but viewing porn no longer conflicts with my integrity.

Perhaps ironically, this thread is firming and strengthening my belief that there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

What is OP?

Forum shorthand for "Original Poster" or "Original Post". Refers to either the person who made the first post, or the first post itself, respectively.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

I wasn't "lecturing" you at all. How did you come to that conclusion?

LoveWisdom, I'd like to invite you to review your posts in this thread, and look to see that your tone could be construed as "lecturing" throughout. Perhaps you don't mean to be pedantic, and perhaps I am overly sensitive to pendantry. But take a look.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by LoveWisdom

But it's not going to lead to advanced awareness. That is the way it is.

Do you agree?

No. I do not.

[Dr Gonzo]

Originally Posted by Angela

Hmm. Y'all seem to be mostly talking about visual porn, especially photographs of women. But there is so much more in the etheric! My favorite is erotic or just plain dirty literature -- for some reason, what arises in the words turns me on more than looking at photos (which also works for me.)

I agree - Although I said earlier that men tend to be more visual than women, I personally find erotic literature more of a turn on than pictures or video, but I do think there is a definite male/female trend towards men preferring visual porn and women preferring to use their imagination and I think there's an evolutionary basis for this.

Amazingly, I agree with Dr. Gonzo

I am equally horrified

Gonzo

[Angela]

LoveWisdom, it is not your problem, it is mine entirely.

Michael, Evelyn Lin is adorable! If she were your lover, do you think you would have any qualms or discomfort about what she does for a living, or do you think you would be completely at peace about it?

Gonzo --

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Angela

Michael, Evelyn Lin is adorable! If she were your lover, do you think you would have any qualms or discomfort about what she does for a living, or do you think you would be completely at peace about it?

I did fantasize about it a little. I'm "at peace" with very few things, but I wouldn't mind it at all. For one thing, her sex drive is clearly higher than mine; I'd much rather she get paid for exercising it in an environment that has a strong reason to be safe from STDS than to pick up random partners at a bar or end up frustrated. But I'm also polyamorous, which probably helps.

[dulaney0330]

to the OP:

I definitely agree with you. My boyfriend has looked at pornography (like most guys) since he was a teenager, but he and I both agree that is it not something that is good for both of us, and he has been "clean" for almost 8 months now. From my own personal viewpoint, my lover should not be viewing other naked women and acting out on that arousal...I should only be the one doing that (and the same for him). Oh, but I guess that is too "old fashioned" nowadays!

I will never understand why people are ok with their loved ones looking at other naked women (or men)...but I guess I do not need to. I am satisfied that my boyfriend is very loyal to me, not just in a physical sense, but also in a mental one.

I am one lucky woman!

[Michael Chui]

A friend of mine (bisexual male) posted this on his blog recently. I thought I'd share it.

Gay Porn For Girls

[ken nubo]

Farryn, get over it. Let your BF jerk off to porn, it's healthy. especially if it's furry p0rn.

[levelek]

Originally Posted by Farryn

I was going to break up with my boyfriend over this but girlfriends and family reminded me that all men look at porn and that I should just accept it. Because, they said, it doesn't have anything to do with me or with how he feels about me. It doesn't mean that he doens't think I'm beautiful.

Wow. I am flabbergasted that nearly everyone is agreeing with the advice that your friends and family gave you. The part about it having nothing to do with you is probably true. HOWEVER, it is NOT true that all men look at porn; and certainly not that you should accept it if it bothers you!!
None of my close male friends look at porn, and neither does my long-term boyfriend. They all have seen porn, of course - as have I - but they do not feel the need to do that/they feel it's beneath their dignity/it's degrading (to them!). Granted, they are a very small minority, but men like this exist! If you are deeply disturbed by porn, the man who loves you should understand this and stop using porn, or else this relationship will have damaging aspects.

I recommend you go to hugoschwyzer.net and look at his posts on porn...

And whatever you do, do not do things that you feel deeply uncomfortable with, just because you think this might please your boyfriend!

I hope this is resolved well...

[dulaney0330]

Originally Posted by levelek

Wow. I am flabbergasted that nearly everyone is agreeing with the advice that your friends and family gave you. The part about it having nothing to do with you is probably true. HOWEVER, it is NOT true that all men look at porn; and certainly not that you should accept it if it bothers you!!
None of my close male friends look at porn, and neither does my long-term boyfriend. They all have seen porn, of course - as have I - but they do not feel the need to do that/they feel it's beneath their dignity/it's degrading (to them!). Granted, they are a very small minority, but m