Porn and Relationships

[Caveman Joe]

This is a long thread, and I'm going to be honest and say that I haven't read more than the first page and a half. That said, here's my view of porn in a nutshell:

1. I love and respect my girlfriend enough to want to make love with her, rather than simply using her as a way to get sexual release. I don't want to have sex just to get off, I want to have sex to be close with her, to show her in a very intimate way that I love and adore her.
So, fantasising (and sometimes porn) gets involved if all I want is a sexual release; I don't think it's fair on anyone involved in a relationship that's supposed to be so loving and intimate to have sex simply for the sake of satisfying a biological function.
A friend of mine summed it up quite succinctly while we were both working in a shop. She said to her boyfriend "If you want to make love with me, come and get it. But if you just want to use me for a wank, there's some porn downstairs."
I think this comes down to a discrepancy between what your heart and your mind both want, and what your testicles want. (during a very chaotic period in my life about a year ago, I came up with the theory that the head can reason twenty years into the future, the heart can reason about a month into the future, and the testicles only concern themselves with the next half an hour - and the lower down your body you go, the dumber each part gets, but the louder each part shouts. Your head knows what's best for you, but uses very calm, quiet words, trying to win you over with logic. Your heart thinks it knows best, and talks a little louder, sometimes drowning out your head. Your testicles sit and gibber like the village idiot, occasionally screaming "WANT SEX NOW!" at a couple of hundred decibels.)

2. 99% of porn is bloody awful. The other 1% either knows that it's ridiculous and plays it up, or takes itself seriously as an art form and pulls it off (not an intentional pun, I assure you) perfectly. The former category includes films such as Alice in Wonderland, which is a 1970's pornographic comedy musical based on the work by Lewis Carroll - how much more beautiful is the world now that you know about this?! It's hilarious, fun, and knows it's absolutely ridiculous - and is not afraid to take full advantage of that fact, poking fun at both itself and the porn industry in general, with some very catchy tunes. The latter category includes those wonderful old Victorian erotica novels, as well as such conteporary works as Alan Moore's "Lost Girls." Here's an interview with the author where he shares his views about porn:
Alan Moore | Interviews | SCI FI Weekly
So not all porn is destructive, degrading, objectifying or insulting!
I don't think porn is a problem to society in and of itself - but bad porn is. The best sort of porn is where everybody is empowered and enjoying themselves, and that sort of porn does exist. The problem is that it's being drowned in the bog-standard garbage that takes up 90% of the Internet.

Hope this helps.

Oh, yeah, I had a point in here somewhere - Original Poster, it's possible that your boyfriend looks at porn because (and I'm going to trigger the profanity filter here, but it's an important word with important meanings attached and I'm using it in its appropriate context) he would rather make love with you than ************ you. He wants his attention to be on his heart, rather than his testicles. That's my interpretation, anyway.

[sallyfrieldam]

Hi Mad101daN

I’m really sorry about the situation with your boyfriend. Do you have anyone around you that you can talk to about it? You are not alone, other people go through this awful situation too. Whatever happens please remember that your feelings count and they do matter. It is very politically incorrect for anyone to say that they dislike their partner using porn. Its almost like we live in some kind of sexual dictatorship where all females have got to be happy with their male partner masturbating to young girls. If you get people attacking you because you don’t like what he is doing please remember that this is still a free world and you are entitled to your feelings and you don’t need to fall in line with what other people are telling you to think and feel.

I really hope things work out for you. Best wishes!

[sallyfrieldam]

Hi Caveman Joe

You said "The best sort of porn is where everybody is empowered and enjoying themselves" I wish so much that this was the kind of stuff on the internet!!! I would be one happy woman!!! I also wish it was socially acceptable for women to be sexual (instead of being called slags, sluts, easy, asking for it (if raped) dirty, whore, slapper, etc etc)

I think every type of relationship is valid just as long as it suits everyone involved. I prefer a monogamous relationship where i dont regularly maturbate to the thought of other men, and if i am dating someone, to date a man who prefers to think of me rather than other people.

I also wish women had the equivalent pornagraphic material available to them that men have, and also for every hot woman you saw on tv, or in a magazine, there was an eqauivalent truly hot guy (not some old man) Then it would be totally equal because women would be able to do what men do.

[Michael Chui]

The problem is that men (and women) exist who are turned on by the sorts of things you find disgusting. That's the only reason such porn exists; why build a product with no market?

[DoAnyOfYouExist]

You need to work on you and your insecurities and stop worrying about porn. This thread proves to me once again that planet earth is the insane asylum of the universe.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by DoAnyOfYouExist

This thread proves to me once again that planet earth is the insane asylum of the universe.

Is that why you're here?

[sallyfrieldam]

DoAnyOfYouExist

You say "You need to work on you and your insecurities and stop worrying about porn." Who are you referring to? Farryn, Mad101daN or me, or all 3 of us?

Are you saying that everyone with an opinion on porn is insecure? Are you saying that everyone with an opinion on porn is worried?

Are you also saying that we should stop discussing relationships on a relationship discussion board?

[Michael Chui]

Sally (and others):

This write-up was utterly fascinating. (And it helps that Moore is a very... loose... writer.) Quite worthwhile.

MAGPIE » ALAN MOORE ON PORNOGRAPHY

[sallyfrieldam]

Michael, does the writer of the article explain why women do not have the equivalent pornographic material that men do? It amazes me that people who say porn is part and parcel of human nature seem to ignore the fact that it written for men and men's pleasure. Surely half of all the humans on earth are women?

The old arguement that women are not sexual does not match with the way women behave today. I read a forum where hundreds of women talk about how much they love sex, i attended a school for 11 to 16 year olds with approx 500 girls, and in my year as we got older it was obvious that we all had an interest in sex.

[Dating Specialist]

Originally Posted by sallyfrieldam

Are you saying that everyone with an opinion on porn is insecure? Are you saying that everyone with an opinion on porn is worried?

I think there could be a chance that people with an opinion against porn is because they are insecure in themselves, especially towards their looks and how well they perform under the covers.

Also, it could be due to a social conditioning and family brought up, that porn is "uncivilised" or "crude", and people with a good upbringing shouldn't watch things like that.

Also, there are people who view making love as something beautiful among lovers, where love is really present and not just purely having sex where no feelings are involved. Therefore, porn turns such people off, and naturally so!

Maybe what we should look at is the underlying reasons why men are watching porn (if it's to satisfy certain bodily needs) when they are already in a relationship and having regular sex with their partners?

Could this be in the same arena as men having affairs when they have a good relationship with their wives? Hmm...

[Anima]

Hello Farryn! I'm glad to see that you've made progress throughout this thread, particularly in your own life. It's especially heartening to hear that you have aligned more with your inner vision and your inner intuitive and emotional messages of what is right for you. Great stuff! And you've taken ownership of your lack of communication with your boyfriend, so that you can make improvements with that type of thing in the future. It seems you have grown a lot in regards to this situation. Good for you!

I want you to know that you have my full support on your personal path a process. I am with sallyfrieldam on basically every point (sallyfrieldam, you are awesome!). Of course you must follow your own inner path to happiness, no matter what is 'normal' and acceptable in our society. The keys to your happiness are within you at all times.

A few things to keep in mind:

1)We live in a society where it is "normal" to have disorders, imbalances, and addictions, including to sex and pornography. It is the general human condition in our western world at this time. However, if you are of the small minority of 'smart' people who are looking to outlet your potential, you are on the path of detaching from the 'norms'. Remember, those who are self-actualizing and who become self-actualized are exactly those who detach from the norms and from the negative cycles that remain in place for the majority. We work on ourselves in order to transcend our issues and to unfold. It might not be easy to follow the inner voice, and you might not find the majority of people share similar beliefs to you many times, but in terms of pursuing your potential and considering 98% of people don't, it's a good thing when you are on the individual minority path! You're on the right track!

2)While in our society, it is normal--although unhealthy--to have addictions, disorders and imbalances, when these conditions are at play in our individual selves, it shows where we are not self-actualized. We have progress to make in terms of overcoming our issues and actualizing our potential. Therefore a possible active sex addiction (if he regularly partook of his online porn behaviour at a degree where it was causing issues in his life) can be indication that your boyfriend has issues to yet overcome. Of course this is a relative thing, since the vast sweeping majority has some form of imbalance or another to overcome. From caffeine addictions, to workaholism and porn addiction. Most of us are working on one issue or another. Therefore it comes down to what you are willing to accept. Are you willing to accept someone who for example by your own standard drinks too much? Or who plays video games obsessively? Are you willing to accept someone who uses drugs to numb themselves? Which of your standards do you feel strongly about, and which ones are you willing to make compromises on? By answering these questions for yourself, you empower yourself from within. If you are empowered from within, as you answer such questions and find, say, that a certain boyfriend, or potential boyfriend is not for you, you utilize the principle of natural selection. By releasing what does not work for you, you quicken the process of finding who and what IS right for you. It's a wonderful system, based on honouring your own Self.

3) The problems of objectification, epitomized in pornography are rampant in our society within the human condition in the western world. Since a mere 2 percent of us are self actualizing/ized, the majority must keep their imbalanced nature in place with the imbalances of one kind or another. What this does is it keeps the majority out of touch with their real power, or potential. It keeps them operating within the veils of illusion, living the unexamined life. The by-product of this is desensitization. Human beings look at each other and don't see one another. We miss out on the beautiful depths of the human spirit within each person we come across. This is all the more noticeable in relationships, where we overlook who our partner IS, all the while numbing ourselves with the porn fixation, the drinking habit, or any other behaviour that we've taken up to keep ourselves separate from our Selves. You sound like you are taking the initiative in your life, towards self empowerment. You have every right to ask that the primary relationships in your life include others who are willing to listen to, look at, and hear the voice of yourSelf. You are entitled to have your deepest emotions heard and accepted, even if it's not easy wading through the truth of the situation at hand, including when those deepest inner signals can sometimes seem "bad". Good, bad or indifferent, those signals are the Truth, and the truth is of the utmost importance for you on your path. When you are ready to attract a partner and sustain a relationship with someone who respects WHO you are, including your truth, and who is willing to work with you, negotiating on the negotiable issues, and who can accept the non-negotiable ones you hold, then that person will enter your life. You don't need to accept someone who is desensitized or who expects you to sacrifice your feelings and your voice for them. You deserve someone who is willing to accept the value of your feelings, and who accepts the value of their own, and who is willing to compromise between two valid perspectives. By waiting for the person who is sensitized you align with that resonance, and you take a major step in attracting that person to you, like a magnet!

Again, keep up the great progress, Farryn! I support you in knowing the key to your happiness is in hearing, valuing and communicating your own needs at all times! I've enjoyed hearing all the great and thoughtful contributions in this thread, everyone!

[Anima]

Originally Posted by Dating Specialist

I think there could be a chance that people with an opinion against porn is because they are insecure in themselves, especially towards their looks and how well they perform under the covers.

Sure, this is a distinct possibility. The question is how does one deal with that insecurity? Should one ingnore their feelings? Should they pretend to feel differently than they in fact do? By doing either of these, the individual increases their insecurity, because they are not securing who they are. The way to increase security is from within. The more we listen to, accept and continue to validate who we are, which includes our genuine thoughts and feelings, the more secure we become. The more we pretend to feel otherwise, in order to make others happy or to fit a "role" we think is good, the more insecure we become. The more we lose touch with our amazing potential deep within.

I have yet to meet a human being who does not have insecurities about their appearance or their performance in life, sexual or otherwise.

[Dating Specialist]

Originally Posted by Anima

Sure, this is a distinct possibility. The question is how does one deal with that insecurity? Should one ingnore their feelings? Should they pretend to feel differently than they in fact do? By doing either of these, the individual increases their insecurity, because they are not securing who they are. The way to increase security is from within. The more we listen to, accept and continue to validate who we are, which includes our genuine thoughts and feelings, the more secure we become. The more we pretend to feel otherwise, in order to make others happy or to fit a "role" we think is good, the more insecure we become. The more we lose touch with our amazing potential deep within.

I have yet to meet a human being who does not have insecurities about their appearance or their performance in life, sexual or otherwise.

You're right Anima, security comes from within. Loving oneself is definitely the way to go.

To fit into a "role" to make others happy doesn't give us security. In fact it makes it worse, because it makes us feel that the true us is inadequate, and we have to be someone else to fill in those shoes.

So, we shouldn't ignore those feelings of insecurity. Rather, we should work on them. There are several ways. Maybe to quote one, we can look at when we have such feelings of insecurity? What are the catalysts? If it's due to the way we look, how can we improve it? If it's due to our work performances that indirectly leads to low confidence and hence insecurity in other areas of our lives, what can we do to change it?

Hope this clarifies Anima. And btw, I'm not a fan of porn either

[Anima]

Originally Posted by Dating Specialist

You're right Anima, security comes from within. Loving oneself is definitely the way to go.

To fit into a "role" to make others happy doesn't give us security. In fact it makes it worse, because it makes us feel that the true us is inadequate, and we have to be someone else to fill in those shoes.

So, we shouldn't ignore those feelings of insecurity. Rather, we should work on them. There are several ways. Maybe to quote one, we can look at when we have such feelings of insecurity? What are the catalysts? If it's due to the way we look, how can we improve it? If it's due to our work performances that indirectly leads to low confidence and hence insecurity in other areas of our lives, what can we do to change it?

Hope this clarifies Anima. And btw, I'm not a fan of porn either

I agree that these questions along with any others we find relevent can help us get to the bottom of what the situation is about for us.

One prevelent problem in our society is that we've generally been taught to stifle our emotions. We've been taught to overlook them and to rationalize everything. What happens is that we repress our emotions. The go unconscious. That means we act them out all around us in our everyday activities, and yet we overlook this. Even though we repress and deny them, others can see our emotions seeping into everything.

How do we resolve this problem? We begin to accept and feel our feelings. When we give ourselves permission to feel our feelings, they move through us and we release them. We receive the message from them via the experience of emotional energy. Do they feel good? Do they feel bad? By giving our feelings a name we process them as verbal/logical memory in our brains. ie: "When my boyfriend looks at porn, I feel sad". By processing and feeling our feelings and by putting them into words, we increase our intuitive wisdom which empowers us to find solutions to the problem at hand. By doing this two things happen:

1) We let go of denying our emotions (denial), ignoring them (ignorance) outside of our awareness where they cause us problems. We ACTivate and fine-tune our emotional intelligence

2)We are able to now connect our emotional intelligence with our logical and intuitive intelligences. This synthesis dramatically increases our perception of "reality", fueling us productively in all avenues of our lives.

The fact of the matter is when we have unprocessed emotion regarding an issue, it prevents us from optimally using logic and intuition in solving our problem, so based on the patterns most of us have been taught, we perpetuate dysfunctioning cycles. So, again, I love the idea of going over the logical content of our "issues", especially when we integrate it with our other intelligences as well! It's very potent!

[Anima]

Understanding the Law of Attraction, the path for me with any issue is clear.

First I take the time to attune to myself and my emotions, which provide the only direct feedback as to how my environment is affecting me. I feel my emotions, and I name them, processing them verbally as memory. I continue to give myself permission to feel them as fully as necessary, releasing them to my highest good. I allow myself to get comfortable with them. Eventually, they pass, sometimes in seconds, other times, it's longer. I will know one of two things. Did the emotion feel good or bad?

If I feel good, great! I'm on the right track. If I feel bad, I recognize an opportunity to create what I DO want. Am I in a relationship involving porn, and am very unhappy about it? I want to then focus on what I want to create. Maybe I want to resolve this problem with my boyfriend and I focus on that. Or maybe I recognize my boyfriend is not right for me. I focus on creating the relationship and situations I DO want to create.

At no point in this theoretical process do I deny who I am, what I feel, or what I want. In order to use the law of attraction to my best interests, I focus on what I want to expand, whether it's my own self-love, inner security, mutual relationship, or the seeking of a new relationship that meets my needs.

Once I clearly define what I choose to create more of, my intuition, my emotions and my logic operate as the tools in bringing my dreams into my experiential reality.

[Natasha]

I agree that if you "have a problem" against porn, that you probably need to fix your own insecurity issues.

Of course, then the question becomes "How?" I am not an expert, but maybe take bellydance, burlesque, or stripping classes. Choose which suits you: Bellydancing, being sensual, but not sexual; burlesque being playfully and theatrically sexual; and stripping being overtly sexual.

I personally enjoy both bellydance, and burlesque, although I probably prefer burlesque, because there are not as many rules, and it allows for more self-expression. And let me say that I am happily married in an extremely healthy relationship: My husband is fine with me performing in public, or blues dancing with other guys. He hates to dance. I am fine with him watching internet porn. I don't want to have sex every night. We both are respectful towards the opposite sex, and all.

Why does this work? Because we trust OURSELVES and EACH OTHER.

[Michael Chui]

*dryly* If you're talking about insecurities, then you should definitely read Moore's article. He lumps the United States and England together, and then contrasts it with other societies.

Sally:

Why ask me? Why take four words, "Alan Moore on Pornography", and ask a series of questions that clearly shows you haven't even clicked the link?

[sallyfrieldam]

Hi Michael,

I read the link. It was very long. I asked you the question because I couldnt see where the author spoke about women having modern pornographic material (male hotties on tv, magazines, internet etc etc as often as we see female hotties ). He does say that porn is intrinsic to humans. Females make up 50% ish of humans therefore I was curious. Does he mention it anywhere?

In the UK we have tons of magazines like Nuts, Loaded, FHM, Maxim, that feature atttractive young females in bikinis etc. If porn is intrinsic to humans where are all the magazines featuring hot taunt, scantily clad young male bodies?

By the way, i do think looking at pornified pictures of the opposite sex is intrinsically pleasurable for most people. If not for our wonderful sexual drive there probably would be no humans!!!

[Aphrodite]

My hubby doesnt look at porn, but being together so long we have had moments over the years. so we looked together.

rather than get upset - go get out a soft porn movie, the lesbian ones are okay and not as gross and watch them together.

why not.