Porn and Relationships

[CasBit]

Most men masturbate even in sexually fulfilling relationships. Some much more then others. Porn is just a convenient masturbation tool. If it wasn't porn it would be fantasies about your friend or a co-worker. Simple as that.

[Dani]

What is worse, porn or a fantasy in his mind?

Both are exactly the same. Using an image for sexual stimulation.

As was pointed out above, masturbation is usually used as a release of energy.

I have had partners who enjoyed (and often encouraged) watching porn together, and a few who even enjoyed -making- it together and watching it later.

If you are uncomfortable with him watching other women in porn then make some with you and him together for him to watch.

You don't have to be objectified in it either. There is nothing wrong with a man or a woman enjoying their sexuality and enjoying the experience.

Also as mentioned above about the rape fantasy, I have long believed that the rape fantasy was a direct result of the social sexual repression of women in western society.

In my experience women want to be sexy, want to be sexual, want to enjoy the sex at least as much as the man does, but do feel objectified, or slutty if they act like that. When they imagine being raped, it isn't their choice to have the sex, so they aren't to blame and so don't have to feel guilty and dirty for having sex. It relieves them of the perceived responsibility.

I know lots of guys who also have their own version of the rape fantasy with a dominating woman, because their values (i.e. men just want sex, but women don't. Which makes men bad, bad people!) make them feel like they are always forcing or convincing their partners to unwillingly have sex with them. They want a woman to take control to relieve them of the burden of guilt for having sex.

I went through this myself, when I first became sexually active, because of my upbringing and I ended up getting dumped by girls because -I- wasn't putting out. (to put it crudely) It took me a couple of years to sort out that belief and open my sexuality up.

I think it's a pretty sad state when we are so entrenched in our guilt about sex that we want other people to force us to do it so we can enjoy it without guilt.

Back onto porn. I can only speak from my own experience on this. I tend to only use porn in two circumstances,

1. My partner and I are sexually incompatible for some reason. In almost every instance it has been because she had lots of guilt hang ups (see above) so sex became more like a chore than a pleasurable experience.

2. I have no current partner, and I have no other strong purpose in my life. As was pointed out, Napoleon Hill talks about the transmutation of sexual energy, and he is spot on. When I have a driving purpose going, I pretty much forget sex even exists. When I have no purpose it's a struggle not to think about it all the time, as there is nothing else to fil my mind.

If you are so made so strongly uncomfortable by porn, and the apparent objectification of women. I am guessing, (without knowing any better) you may possibly have some hangups about actual real sex too.

Do you feel guilty if you want it? Do you make your boyfriend jump through hoops to get it? Do you make him feel like he is the one who wants it and you have to suffer through it for him? Do you want it, or do you actually suffer through it?

I have had different girls put me through these, and it drove me straight to porn because it was far more enjoyable a time. But when I am with a girl who is as keen or keener than me, I forget which folder the vids are in...

[sallyfrieldam]

Hi everyone.

Please help me to understand what people think when they say porn. As a female I look at porn to try and learn about sex. What I see is violence, not sex!! I would love to be wrong. If people see porn that isn't violent please let me know it exists so my faith in this modern day version of sexuality can be restored!!

Some females can orgasm through vagina penis intercourse, some females can't. Every female can orgasm through their clitoris (the penis and the clitoris are the same organ, the different sex hormones of the female or male foetus cause it to either grow into a penis or a clitoris) I have looked at porn and it concentrates on the mans penis and ignores the woman clitoris.

People say porn is sex. When i look at porn it seems to be totally about the mans pleasure and nothing to do with the womans pleasure. It seems to be about the mans belief that he must be violent and humiliate the woman (pulling her hair, calling her horrible names, seeking small very young looking females, tieing them up, putting a mans bodily fliuds on the woman, submissive females etc etc etc).

If i am wrong folks please let me know. The reason I think this is just the stuff i see when i look at porn.

Also, I believe in being truthful about our intentions. If my boyfriend said "I am monogamous" but masturbated to the thought of seuxal interactions with other people I would say he was lieing. I would say he enjoys the thought of polygamy, and I would question why he was in a monogamous relationship. I would not shame him or devalue him. But if my desire was for monogamy and he was happy as he was and didnt wish to change I would conclude that we were not suited.

[jkmuller]

Farryn, despite what some people will tell you, it is not your fault you are upset about this. I understand your situation from the opposite perspective - the man's. I was in this very situation years ago and I can tell you that

• Not all men look at porn or even masturbate
• It is not "natural" to look at porn
• You should not feel guilty for being upset

In addition to feeling bad about yourself and your body (which as other people have said, is not really why he looks at porn) you might be feeling an enormous lack of trust in your boyfriend. He has been deliberately, I'm sure, keeping this from you. He is probably feeling a mixture of shame, anger, and lack of control over his addiction. The most helpful response to him may not be anger, this might just encourage it and separate you two further.

Maybe he wont have the willpower to stop looking at porn, and maybe you wont be able to stay in the relationship if he doesn't. If you do want to stay together know that it might take a lot of work and arguments to get him to stop. He might even want to stop but at this particular point not have the willpower. I can at least tell you from one man's perspective, that it is possible to work through this problem and solve it.

[Baltar]

Originally Posted by jkmuller

Farryn, despite what some people will tell you, it is not your fault you are upset about this. I understand your situation from the opposite perspective - the man's. I was in this very situation years ago and I can tell you that

• Not all men look at porn or even masturbate
• It is not "natural" to look at porn
• You should not feel guilty for being upset

Regarding masturbation: it's worth noting that men need to either have sex regularly OR masturbate. Regular ejaculation is required for healthy prostate function. Long term lack of it causes prostate muscle atrophy, prostate inflammation/tissue damage, and possible increased risk of prostate cancer. Unfortunately we have a fairly primitive reproductive system that's "always on" regardless of whether we want it to be on or not.

[Matthew Shea]

Sally, I get the feeling that your view of sexuality includes much more spirituality and love than most other people. Porn's appeal comes from sexuality's basest aspects. It is meant to appeal to people, primarily men, looking for a release, not for love. It's true that a lot of men like to think of themselves (however unrealistically) as the male lion in charge of all the females in his dominion, ready to dominate them as soon as the time is right. That's the appeal of porn. It's not meant to be violent, but it is meant to appeal to a certain aspect of sexuality that you may not be in touch with. Personally, I can tell you that some of the best sex comes when you just throw all your preconceptions and inhibitions out the window and just pretend you're a couple of wild animals doing what comes naturally. That raw passion can create a very strong bond in its own right and result in a fantastically pleasurable experience.

Finally, masturbating to porn or a fantasy is MUCH different than having sex. These things, by their very definition, are not reality. They're an escape from reality and should not be viewed as compromising a monogamous relationship unless they turn into an addiction. At the end of the experience, reality will set back in and the fantasy will be history. The real people, however, will still be there, unaffected by a fantasy that normally has nothing to do with them. Women who claim men should not do these things if they're involved in a fulfilling relationship don't understand the "always on" nature of men's sexuality. We can be in the middle of nearly anything at any time, see an attractive woman and immediately get distracted by sexual thoughts. Unless you're prepared to satisfy every one of those whims and sexual thoughts, don't try to hold him back. Take comfort in the fact that it has nothing to do with you as a woman and that it doesn't necessarily mean he feels unfulfilled in the relationship.

[sallyfrieldam]

Hi Matthew. Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I really understand what you mean by having an always on sexuality. Females have that too. I also totally agree with what you was saying about the raw passion and base sexuality, I enjoy all these form of sex. All these things I am totally for. As a single person I could easily get distracted by gorgeous guys.

The thing that bemuses me is the violence in porn. Why the name calling, why the ignoring of womens pleasure, why the desire to dominate? People try and tell me these things are intrinsict to sexuality and my real experience says that I can enjoy sex without violence.

I just wanted the original poster to know that there is a world where a man can love a woman sexually and it not involve him thinking about and maturbating to the thought of other people. I think it is reasonable to want to be with someone who loves you in thought and deed.

If you were in love with a woman and every day she looked at images of men that were better looking than you, richer, stronger, more manly and mastrubated to those images, would you be happy?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by sallyfrieldam

If you were in love with a woman and every day she looked at images of men that were better looking than you, richer, stronger, more manly and mastrubated to those images, would you be happy?

Yikes! It's hard to imagine many men not being put out of sorts by walking in on THAT scene!

Fortunately, many women's imaginations are quite vivid, and it's not necessary to actually have a photograph of George Clooney or Richard Dawkins in front of us at the crucial moment. We work from memory!

[mtrimpe]

I believe porn is just an immature way of dealing with your sexuality.

I used to be addicted to it myself when I was younger and I remember what that was like. I think I'm the youngest person ever to have had an internet-porn-addiction. I started around 13 years ago when I was 12 and the internet wasn't even available to the public yet, so I know what it's like. I've since learnt to deal with it and control myself, but I know what it is to be truly addicted to it.

I now have a boyfriend who watches porn a lot. At first I found it really hard to accept, but since then I've learnt to deal with the whole emotional effect it has on me. A few days ago however, I had a tough talk with my boyfriend and he responded by watching porn for 8 hours straight while I was at work the next day. After finding out about that, I realized that besides from any emotional problems I might have with it, my main problem is that it is immature and a waste of time.

It just really reminds of this problem I have with eating. I have real trouble eating big meals, I forget it a lot of the time and when I do eventually eat I really feel the need to eat so much fastfood so fast that my stomach hurts. I also often find myself snacking lots and lots of junkfood to still some hunger, only realizing after the fact that I'm really hungry for vitamins and that the junkfood doesn't help.

So if you take away all the emotional attachments, porn is like fastfood and good sex is like a healthy dinner. So the real question is, do you want to be with someone who eats fast food all the time and doesn't take care of his diet? I don't know ... maybe, but it's probably not so nice if he prefers a few candy bars over the three-course meal you've prepared for him

[Dani]

Originally Posted by sallyfrieldam

Hi Matthew. Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I really understand what you mean by having an always on sexuality. Females have that too. I also totally agree with what you was saying about the raw passion and base sexuality, I enjoy all these form of sex. All these things I am totally for. As a single person I could easily get distracted by gorgeous guys.

The thing that bemuses me is the violence in porn. Why the name calling, why the ignoring of womens pleasure, why the desire to dominate? People try and tell me these things are intrinsict to sexuality and my real experience says that I can enjoy sex without violence.

I just wanted the original poster to know that there is a world where a man can love a woman sexually and it not involve him thinking about and maturbating to the thought of other people. I think it is reasonable to want to be with someone who loves you in thought and deed.

If you were in love with a woman and every day she looked at images of men that were better looking than you, richer, stronger, more manly and mastrubated to those images, would you be happy?

I am guessing you have a very limited sampling, or got it all from the same source.

For fear of inciting wrath about their masogonystic society, I bring evidence piece 'A' Japanese Porn. A large percentage of Japanese porn -starts- with the girl being given an orgasm.

Evidence 'B' ... Gay porn would by that same rule be men degrading men.

Evidence 'C' Home porn. Usually this is fairly normal sex, with both partners having a good time.

As for the name calling etc. I have had women -ask- me to call them names and get a little rough.

As for violence, one ex partner used to leave bruises on me. Another would often make my back -bleed- with her nails. So it isn't just in the movies.

Taking the statement 'I don't like volence in sex' and extrapolating it out to 'all women therefore don't like violence in sex' is a bit of a stretch.

[Erki]

I have never understood why is there so much exposure of male genitals in porn. Porn is usually watched by men and why should a straight male like me want to gaze another guy's penis is beyond me.

[Michael Chui]

This is getting ridiculous. There are a lot of beliefs floating about with little to no evidence backing it. What if I said this?:

"We're also sure that imaginative men engage in wanton exposure to porn by walking down the street. And by watching television. May your bubble be opaque and dreary, with but one alablaster angel lighting the way."

[Matthew Shea]

Originally Posted by sallyfrieldam

The thing that bemuses me is the violence in porn. Why the name calling, why the ignoring of womens pleasure, why the desire to dominate? People try and tell me these things are intrinsict to sexuality and my real experience says that I can enjoy sex without violence.

I just wanted the original poster to know that there is a world where a man can love a woman sexually and it not involve him thinking about and maturbating to the thought of other people. I think it is reasonable to want to be with someone who loves you in thought and deed.

If you were in love with a woman and every day she looked at images of men that were better looking than you, richer, stronger, more manly and mastrubated to those images, would you be happy?

I'm not sure I agree that name calling equates to violence in that it's basically an extension of dirty talk, not necessarily a belittling of the recipient of the name calling, although on the surface it may appear that way. In other words being called a slut might be belittling on the surface, but, for the woman, it may have implications beyond the negative connotations we associate with the term. For example, you can choose to focus on the connotation of vast sexual experience and the ability to please beyond what most women would be capable of, implying that the man sees the woman as a valuable sexual partner. This would stroke her ego in a convoluted sort of way and create additional sexual excitement. It has to be done right, though, using words and phrasing that maintain an air of fantasy, taking care to avoid something that will hit home in such a way as to truly cause offense.

Regarding porn not focusing on a woman's pleasure, that's true technically, but all the films I've seen try their best to give the impression that the woman is receiving pleasure, whether she is or not. Essentially, I'm saying that the man's impression is that the woman is, in fact, having a pleasurable experience. Whether or not that's realistic is beside the point. In an ideal, real situation, the man would indeed pay more attention to the woman's pleasure and the woman, in turn, would guide him and ensure that he interacts with her in such a way as to foster that pleasure. On the TV screen, however, none of that translates into the excitement porn is intended to create, so it's not addressed other than to make sure the actress goes out of her way to ensure the male viewer thinks she's really having a good time and reaching climax.

Regarding loving someone in thought and deed, I think, for most people, a sexual release can indeed be completely separated from their relationship with their real-life partner. Masturbation, including porn or fantasies, does not necessarily imply that a person's relationship is deficient.

Finally, I wouldn't be threatened by the thought of my wife getting her jollies to a picture of some hot stud, but, then again, I don't think I'm typical here, nor am I married to a typical woman (she encourages me to masturbate, BTW). I won't get too detailed, but I can say with certainty she really has no interest in self-pleasuring, not that she doesn't ooh and aah over a hot guy from time to time. As far as I'm concerned, if I can ogle attractive women, there's no reason she can't do the same with attractive men. I would be much more concerned if someone was hitting on her in a real life scenario.

Originally Posted by Angela

Yikes! It's hard to imagine many men not being put out of sorts by walking in on THAT scene!

Fortunately, many women's imaginations are quite vivid, and it's not necessary to actually have a photograph of George Clooney or Richard Dawkins in front of us at the crucial moment. We work from memory!

Men are the same way. Speaking personally, I certainly have never needed visual aids, although sometimes I choose to use them.

Originally Posted by Erki

I have never understood why is there so much exposure of male genitals in porn. Porn is usually watched by men and why should a straight male like me want to gaze another guy's penis is beyond me.

The penis is acceptable in that A) you can't have heterosexual relations without it and B) it is being used to penetrate the woman. I would argue that the penetration itself is a source of great excitement. That's not possible without the male organ. Take the woman away and the penis becomes something we don't want to see anymore because it won't be used to commit the act that we're really interested in seeing.

Originally Posted by Michael Chi

This is getting ridiculous. There are a lot of beliefs floating about with little to no evidence backing it. What if I said this?:

That's no reason we can't still discuss the issue.

[Erki]

Originally Posted by Matthew Shea

The penis is acceptable in that A) you can't have heterosexual relations without it and B) it is being used to penetrate the woman. I would argue that the penetration itself is a source of great excitement. That's not possible without the male organ. Take the woman away and the penis becomes something we don't want to see anymore because it won't be used to commit the act that we're really interested in seeing.

To a degree I agree with you, although I don't find watching penetration that exciting. Man squirting sperm on woman and receiving oral sex is even less exciting and I don't get why I should watch it(I don't).

[Matthew Shea]

Erki, our uniqueness is what makes this life so challenging at times, but makes it so wonderful at others. The intent of my last post was purely to foster understanding. If I achieved that, I've achieved my goal. I would never presume to make anyone accept, much less get excited about something they previously have not, but I do hope they would at least understand the reasons that someone else may feel differently and accept that they have the freedom to do as they please, so long as they're not causing harm to others. In my opinion, in sex, virtually anything is acceptable so long as both partners are completely consenting and understand of the consequences of any actions they may take. There are some notable exceptions to that (bestiality, pedophilia, etc), but if both partners can get into a particular act and can derive excitement from it, no one should stand in their way.

[Amit]

I don't mean this as a personal attack on you but I think it's a real shame that you feel that way about porn. In all my past relationships, all my partners have been very open about porn and we've often watched it together and it has probably even spiced things up a bit. IMHO there is nothing wrong with porn or masturbation, In fact, it's something that you can both do together, masturbate each other while watching porn or try different things.

Personally I think there's nothing better than when a couple can share that level of intimacy without any embarrassment or shame. Just recently I got hold of the lovers guide DVD. Even though I don't have a girlfriend but I do have a friend and we both love having sex together and so we're both going to watch this DVD together to get some new ideas.

As a suggestion, why don't you surprise him one day and ask him to show you some of that lovely porn he enjoys so much. I think it will really help you both get more connected! Best of luck sweety!

[theknightwhosaysni-NI]

Originally Posted by Farryn

I HATE feeling like my looks are the most important thing about me. I hate living in a society where looks and sexual satisfaction take priority over real people and real feelings.

Obviously YOU are the one that gives too much importance to your look. And you're stressed about that.
I'd say be sure you are a nice person regardless of your look. BE SURE of that, because you are.

[Michael Chui]

I didn't suggest that we should stop discussing it; I was pointing out that the arguments were becoming absurd because people were taking their own, singular experiences, generalizing it to the entire population of humanity, and then making moral judgments based on these already-skewed notions.

Pornography is any representation of human sexuality with the intent of eliciting arousal. This is the definition.

Nothing about this suggests objectification, violence, degradation, nor does any of it require specific actions in the representation. A partial-nude shot technically qualifies as pornography more than some painfully explicit videos, if for no other reason than it's better at causing arousal in the viewer.

I don't really care that certain people clearly have no idea what porn is. I don't have a whole lot of exposure to South American culture; that's fine. What annoys me is that these same people feel perfectly fine condemning the practice.

Walk down the street with a video camera rolling and catch anyone who looks sexy with the expectation that someone will view it later to masturbate: you've just made porn. This is, by the way, legal.

[Keith]

My thoughts, for what they're worth:

#1: NO, the guy watching porn doesn't mean that your sexual relationship is deficient. Sex is good for an intimate bonding experience and masturbating to porn is good for a quick and easy physical release.

#2: Porn is not "an immature way of dealing with your sexuality". The "fast food vs good food" analogy is close, but a better analogy might be a gourmet meal vs a sandwich. One's designed to be a meaningful experience that you set time aside for, and the other is a way to meet your needs in a quick and basic manner. There's nothing wrong with either approach, and both have their place in your diet.

#3: Yes, "pornography" just means "something that's designed to arouse you" and doesn't intrinsically carry connotations of objectification, degradation etc. But the majority of porn, especially the easily available stuff (I'm looking at you, Internet) is objectifying at the very least.

#4: Your brain knows that porn is fantasy. The relationship between the porn you watch and your real interactions with members of your preferred sex are about as interrelated as the last hollywood blockbuster you watched and your real life. ie. Minimally, if at all. Of course if you constantly immerse yourself in anything it'll shape your thoughts to some extent.

[EDIT]
#5: Farryn, have you considered just asking (in a non-judgemental manner) why he watches porn? It seems to me that a lot of the problem here is that you don't know his motives and you're assuming bad ones. Everyone in this thread can speculate and generalise, but only he knows whether his use of porn reflects how he feels about your relationship. (I speculate "No", BTW).