Would you rather be needed or wanted?

[polyfulcrum]

My spouse is experiencing a mild withdrawal from our relationship because he doesn't feel as "needed" as he used to. This is a difficult place for me to be in, as I feel as though I am being penalized for being more emotionally healthy, rather than being appreciated for the personal progress I've made.

Having spoken with a number of men, they describe an attraction to the "White Knight" role, of saving a woman who needs help. I don't need him the way I used to, but I _want_ to be in a relationship with him even more, as he's done a lot of self-improvement that I greatly admire as well.

Is there a way of expressing this difference that would be impactful to those of you that desire being "needed" by your partner(s)? This seems largely like semantics to me, but I am open to finding another way of looking at it.

[SimonaRich]

You cannot control your partner, so if he thinks that he is not needed, let him go. He is living in his dramas, maybe he is at this stage of personal development.

It is great that you are okay with who you are, and if you remain this way and not stress yourself out because of his behaviour, he will either come back or you will attract even better partner.

When you are happy with who you are, you attract people that are happy with who they are. As you are happy with yourself and your partner is not, he does not resonate with you anymore. So maybe you are better of giving him space and you may attract someone that resonates with you more.

[seeker5]

Since you guys are polyamorous, maybe he needs to develop with a relationship with someone who "needs" him? Maybe that way he wouldn't need to feel "needed" by you and you two can continue the evolution of your relationship?

[yossarian]

This is masculinity, masculine instinct. When you act like you don't need him, he feels less masculine, and finds you less feminine.

Solution: Allow yourself to need him, and allow him to feel needed. Express appreciation for the things he does for you. Tell him you need him. Is that so bad? Is that dishonest? If it wasn't for him, you would have certain "needs" in your relationship unfulfilled.

Marriage, the Fascinating Way, By Helen Andelin talks a lot about stuff like this and has all kinds of relationship advice.

[Rose of Cairo]

When I tell a guy "I don't need you", it is a compliment. It means "I don't need you in any way, yet I want to spend my time with you. Isn't it awesome how attractive you must be to me and how I love you so much!".

I also see it as a compliment when someone says "I don't need you" to me. It means the same: he doesn't need me, yet he wants to spend his time with me, hey damn, how cool! To me it means that he is genuinely interested in me and has fun spending time with me, as opposed to being attached to me out of neediness.

I personally see guys who want to be needed as having a self-esteem issue. They're looking outside for the validation they lack inside.

I also think needing someone isn't healthy and that we cannot love unconditionally someone whom we need. But that's just me.

As for your question, Polyfulcrum, I don't know. Maybe you could try to explain to him that wanting him without needing him is even better in your eyes than needing him?

Or maybe you could ask him how he feels when he feels needed by you, as opposed to when you don't need him. What does it give him exactly? Once he knows what he's looking for, maybe you two could work out a way to make him feel this way without you needing him.

Dunno. Good luck!

[RT Wolf]

Most people want to be wanted and to feel valued and valuable. Sometimes people mistake being needed for being wanted. Did your spouse have a person in their background who was dependent on them? Perhaps his mother and/or father? Was his parents' dynamic one of co-dependency? He/You maybe interested in reading Getting the Love you Want by Harville Hendrix.

It reminds me of a story I read in Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay (good book), I think. Maybe it was in Feel the Fear...and Do It Anyway. It's about a woman who was married and stayed at home for a while but then went back to school. Her husband had been supportive of her going back to school and referred to her as "his little student" or something else seemingly innocuous but really not good. After school, she decided to get back to the work force and maybe start her own business and her husband completely changed. He felt threatened by the new force growing within her and wanted her to stay in that role he was used to.

If if you have a conscious relationship with a conscious person, talk to him about it. Perhaps he does feel valued and important if you need him. Perhaps that's not such a great thing to base his sense of value around.

Maybe this will help? Codependency & Recovery from codependent relationships

Good luck! Please keep us updated on your progress.

[roxyruby]

Wanted.

I wouldn't want to be needed because then how would my poor boyfriend cope if I had to go away for a long period of time or died or something.

Talking about needing eachother however, can be a very sweet thing, and communicates how much you love eachother and how close you are so it can be a beautiful thing too

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

When I tell a guy "I don't need you", it is a compliment. It means "I don't need you in any way, yet I want to spend my time with you. Isn't it awesome how attractive you must be to me and how I love you so much!".

Seems you're just shifting the goal posts though.

Now instead of him saying, "You're only with me because you need me!" he can say, "You're only with me because I'm attractive!" or "You're only with me because I'm funny!" or "You're only with me because I'm quirky!"

Whatever it is that brings you together with someone can be seen in exactly the same way. Why value funniness, quirkiness, complementing personalities, or attractiveness? Why not value ability to provide, for instance?

Just because you need someone does not mean that you don't like them. Just because you need someone does not mean that you don't love them.

There is a biological instinct in men to be attracted to women who are vulnerable and need them. This is the desire to serve. You can try and modify the goalpost away from physical or emotional need over to "attractiveness" or "personality" or whatever, but all you're doing is moving the goalpost away from what is biologically inborn in humans over to something that is more artificial and less powerful, less bonding.

Humans instinctively want to pair-bond. Pair-bonding is a biological relationship where the man and woman both love each other, but they also need each other to fulfill certain needs. The mutual fulfillment of needs brings them closer.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Why not value ability to provide, for instance?

I don't know - why would I?

There are many things I value in men, but ability to provide is not one of them. It's just not important to me. I don't know why, maybe that's just how I am?

There is a biological instinct in men to be attracted to women who are vulnerable and need them.

Really? I don't really believe that. There are enough guys who are attracted to strong, independent women. And that's good for me, because I find being treated as a vulnerable little thing quite boring.

This is the desire to serve. You can try and modify the goalpost away from physical or emotional need over to "attractiveness" or "personality" or whatever, but all you're doing is moving the goalpost away from what is biologically inborn in humans over to something that is more artificial and less powerful, less bonding.

I'm not "trying and modifying" anything. That's already how it naturally is for me.

[Bradshaw]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

There are enough guys who are attracted to strong, independent women.

Oh, more than enough!

[polyfulcrum]

Updating:

We spent a wonderful evening relaxing together and talked about want versus need. The response was pretty spot on with what I was hoping for. He feels that the urge to be needed is more of a social construct than a desire that should be fed. He doesn't want me to "dumb myself down" emotionally so that he can feel needed. Rather, the intent is to consciously move towards finding being wanted even more gratifying and significant than being needed used to be.

Yossarian, please don't hijack this thread. The viewpoints you offer have just enough truth to them that I'm sure some will overlook that there is very little personal choice available in the model you present. We are not victims of our biology. Misogyny is one thing, but you also undercut what men are capable of.

Having been in a relationship for over 15 years (since I was 18!) with the same man, I can say that I have a deep and abiding love for him that goes far beyond romantic, past the New Relationship Energy that so many crave. We are both capable of change and choosing what form that takes, so course-corrections are part of the scenery.

[yossarian]

There's no hijack here. I was staying perfectly on topic and addressing your question. I'm not just gonna silence myself just because you ask politely, lol.

[Holistic Star]

I've been in a relationship where I was 'needed' and it was stifling and oppressive.

I'm in a relationship where I am not needed and it's great!


I couldn't be in a relationship where the guy wanted me to be vulnerable and needy. That's just f'ing creepy.

[ssandra]

I need to feel wanted, my husband needs to feel needed...

For me it is ok. I don´t need him in the sense that I would die if he would go, but I do "need" him, because I want to.

When he says that he needs me, I translate "I want you" because I know that he is strong enough to live without me.

We could argue days and days about this issue (we are both extremely stuborn) and get into giant fights about it, but it just isn´t worth it for us...

So; I´ll tell him I need him (translating it into wanting in my head), he makes me feel like he wants me and everybody is happy!

One of my only favority dr.Phil quotes regarding relationships: "would you rather be right, or be happy!"

It is good anyway that you can talk to him about and that you are on the same page about this (not about the wanting vs needed, but about what you both want of it in the future).

[polyfulcrum]

The more we talk about it, the more I realize that it isn't just semantics. There is a big difference between being with someone because you _want_ to, and because you _have_ to. Perhaps this is colored by being poly, as the idea of personal choice is fairly key! Obligation is a poor reason to be partnered to someone.

Being in a relationship by desire, instead of necessity, is a big difference. I am very excited to be in a space where I feel maximally motivated by choice and desire, and minimally motivated by need or fear. Being able to communicate that more effectively with my spouse has helped him feel more excited by that as well.

[yossarian]

Associating need with fear is a mistake. "Need" means someone is fulfilling your needs, not that without them you would die, or should fear to lose them.

It's like owning a car. You need the car, but do you fear to lose it? If you fear losing your car, having your car stolen, whatever, the FEAR ITSELF is the problem, NOT the need. There is nothing wrong with needing a car.

The same applies to relationships. Just because someone is filling a need in your life does not mean you are a slave and does not mean you should fear losing them. If you lose them, you'll adapt, find someone else, or whatever.

Being attached to independence is itself an attachment. The "need" to always feel totally independence is based on fear, and fear is the delusion.

[polyfulcrum]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Associating need with fear is a mistake. "Need" means someone is fulfilling your needs, not that without them you would die, or should fear to lose them.

It's like owning a car. You need the car, but do you fear to lose it? If you fear losing your car, having your car stolen, whatever, the FEAR ITSELF is the problem, NOT the need. There is nothing wrong with needing a car.

The same applies to relationships. Just because someone is filling a need in your life does not mean you are a slave and does not mean you should fear losing them. If you lose them, you'll adapt, find someone else, or whatever.

Being attached to independence is itself an attachment. The "need" to always feel totally independence is based on fear, and fear is the delusion.

I don't need the car, I want the car. The car makes my life easier, but I could do without it if I had to. It would be less convenient, consume more time to get from point A to point B, but it could be done.

In the same way, I don't need the relationship. I want the relationship, not because I am so independent that I avoid being entangled with others (quite the inverse!), but because it enhances my own growth, and provides me with opportunities to nurture and give to those I love.

Just out of curiosity, what practical experience do you bring to this discussion? I'd love to hear how your relationship(s) have been working out with the ideas that you share. There are so many ways that relationships work, and I'm always open to hearing about practical application of theory.

[seeker5]

Yossarian,

There's a difference between having certain needs fulfilled by someone compared to needing that person. For example, you can have have the need to have sex, and someone in particular can fulfill that need of yours. However it doesn't mean you need that person, it just means that person is fulfilling one of your needs.

On the other hand, if you need a person, it can mean that you need them to validate your self-worth, your view of yourself. If that person leaves, or you feel that person may leave you, then you go crazy because you sense a huge attack to your lack of self-worth if they leave you.

You can grow out of needing that person to validate you because you've gained your own validation. However, you can still choose to fulfill your need (or desire) for sex with that particular person. So while you may still choose to fulfill some of your needs or desire through that person, it doesn't mean you need them. It becomes a choice, whereas when you needed that person to validate you, it wasn't a choice.

[yossarian]

It seems like the definition of need has many definitions. I wonder which definition the OP's boyfriend was referring to? Maybe he wants to be "needed" in the same way a car is "needed" which we all seem to agree is ok.

What kind of neediness is NOT ok? Apparently needing a car to get to work is not really need, that is want. Likewise, needing a husband to pay for groceries is also not really need, it's want. Even though the husband buys you groceries, that doesn't mean the person is needed, since if the person was gone you could just get a job and buy your own groceries. As seeker said, just because a person is fulfilling a need doesn't mean they are needed.

So given the above ideas, what separates want from need? At what point are we just debasing the language?

Can someone give an example of what you guys mean by "needed"? I can't think of any "needs" anymore now that you've included absolutely everything under "want" AND separated "fulfilling a need" from "needing the person".