A chick is bizarrely fascinated by PUAs

[cylon]

Originally Posted by pyrogen

The fact that over the course of history women worked on themselves and their game but men pretty much just showed up, was a source of frustration for so many women, and finally it's turning around.

Male-bashing drivel.

[pyrogen]

I stand by the "no last minute dates" rule early in a relationship. Later on it can be a little more flexible but also in a relationship, later on, the person starts to become more a regular part of your life and less of a "date". At THAT stage it's ok to do some last minute things.

Many women have been in the situation of being a "booty call" or being at the guy's beck and call but never knowing if they were actually going to see him one weekend from the next. Nobody wants to be in that situation. It's not just a guy/girl thing. If a woman did that to me - wouldn't make plans, it was all at her convenience - I'd dump her too. A man or woman who will make plans a few days in advance has respect for their partner and has a schedule that requires they make plans. They don't just let their life happen by accident. They create their life.

And the times I HAVE broken all of them, I ended up not being treated right. Most women have had the experience of 1) having some guy we were really really hot for who treated us badly because they could do ANYTHING and 2) some guy we weren't that into, who actually treated us well.

It's not because of some mythic "OMGBadBoyzzz!" appeal or because we're masochists. It's because when we have low self esteem, we get bit by the sex bug, we let them get away with anything and everything. It's the same as a guy getting oneitis then getting doormatty and handing his nuts to the woman on a platter.

Having rules for how we are to be treated - and how we behave - has helped women in my other community actually get with men THEY LIKE and have good relationships with them. They fall in love but they still remain the man's dreamgirl, and they fall in love with men who love them. They don't go all doormatty.

And women who let a man lead, DO show interest, in a way that keeps men wanting to keep trying. We just don't show interest in a *masculine* way. "Mars and Venus On A Date" by John Gray really goes into this.

[cylon]

I can imagine the guy with genuine interest calling you, asking you out on short notice, and you giving him that entire speech. And then him heading off to Barnes & Noble to the "Mars & Venus" section so he could learn why he screwed up by asking you out.

Actually, you'd forget the rule and go out with him if you liked him. These are all just words on a screen, not what any of us actually DO in the moment.

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by cylon

I can imagine the guy with genuine interest calling you, asking you out on short notice, and you giving him that entire speech.

Actually, you'd forget the rule and go out with him if you liked him. These are all just words on a screen, not what any of us actually DO in the moment.

Not too many high value women actually have that kind of free time, and high value men KNOW this.

[cylon]

But it's business! He's going out of town. It was unexpected. He just really wanted to see YOU before he headed out because he thought you guys were hitting it off. He saw you as easy going and down to earth.

Do you actually tell him "I'm sorry, I'm a high value woman. You should know this. It is so rude for you to assume that I am not doing anything tomorrow night."

Two ships passing in the night. It breaks my heart.

[pyrogen]

No, actually, that's not what I'd say at all. I can be firm and stick by my guns without being bitchy about it. "I'd love to, but I already have plans tomorrow..."
Anyone really interested will try to nail me down for another time. It's worked that way every time. If we already have a rapport and I've already been doing receptive flirting, they aren't going to take my being busy on short notice as a brush-off.

[cylon]

Well at least you're flexible. I'll give you that.

It's good to know that if you have high interest in the man, and he has high interest in you, and you both know it, that you will avoid seeing him just to not to break your rule.

I guess in a case like that, he'd wait for you to contact him since you turned him down.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cylon

Bummer for that guy who really liked you, but you weren't flexible enough to date him because it wasn't four days notice.

Onto the next guy.

(Actually I think if you really liked the guy, all your rules would be broken)

Bummer for the girl who really likes you, Cylon, who might be a really great match for you but she's a bit shy or has a don't look-to-talk rule and takes more than five minutes to relax with you and let you know, or she is young and thinks that if you don't offer to buy her a drink (or something) that means you're not interested, and you dismiss her as uninterested in you.

Quelle tragique! On to the next girl.

[cylon]

Her loss!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cylon

Her loss!

Yes. Yours, too.

[cylon]

I'll survive.

But not in this thread!

[fitx3]

Originally Posted by cylon

I'll survive.

But not in this thread!

Man, this is still going on here? Cylon, I think you enjoy a little bashing don't you? Maybe you should be looking for one of those ladies dressed in tight, shiny, black clothes! Might give you something else to do!

[cylon]

Originally Posted by fitx3

Maybe you should be looking for one of those ladies dressed in tight, shiny, black clothes! ;

Let me guess, you're wearing tight, shiny, black clothes.

[fitx3]

LOL Actually I am. But it's spandex for the gym.....not the stuff you are thinking of silly guy! I said that because I think you enjoy it when a woman puts you in your place and so far all these women who have been going back and forth with you HAVE. And you continue and continue and....

[cylon]

You're just made I wouldn't buy you a drink. Now you see why!

[fitx3]

I've been made?

How about if everyone just went to happy hour and bought each other drinks with a handful of quarters? You are permitted to walk away after five minutes of conversation so that we all think you are "THE MAN" and we all agree not to accept dates with anyone within 4 days?

[Angela]

Have you guys/girls heard of this newish trend of speed-eye-contact-dating, where women line up in one line and men in another facing the women, and you spend 3 minutes gazing into one another's eyes to feel the connection? Like speed dating, except no talking, just Being With.

The four hour workweek guy did a blog post about his experience with it; sounded wonderful!

I think that sounds like a fun alternative to this whole "filtering" thing.

[fitx3]

Wow! No, I think I would bust up laughing during the whole process. I'd be asked to leave the building.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by fitx3

Wow! No, I think I would bust up laughing during the whole process. I'd be asked to leave the building.

Yeah, I think it would take something to really be present and not retreat into our habitual was of coping with really being present with someone (like giggling or getting antsy, etc.).

Just Being There, and allowing yourself to go deeply into the eyes of another person. Wouldn't that be a great way to experience another human being, and get a real feel for them?

[cylon]

Originally Posted by fitx3

I've been made?

How about if everyone just went to happy hour and bought each other drinks with a handful of quarters? You are permitted to walk away after five minutes of conversation so that we all think you are "THE MAN" and we all agree not to accept dates with anyone within 4 days?

"Mad". That was obviously a typo. Being made would mean you have just become a member of the mafia.

Look I'll make you a deal, if you think of me as "THE MAN" in scare quotes, I'll think of you as "A WOMAN" in scare quotes.

Because right now it's not looking so good for you.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by cylon

Her loss!

Cylon, I think it's interesting that when it's the woman sticking by her TR guns and cutting off her options at possible love, as a matter of her principles, it's a bummer that "breaks your heart" but when it's you (or, I guess, any man) sticking by his guns and cutting off options at possible love as a matter of principles, (because of a woman who may not be able to sufficiently express her interest in you within the five minute time limit) then it's "her loss" -- which sounds to me like you're emotionally unaffected (or maybe a little snitty).

What's the difference? Why unaffected or snitty when it's the guy doing the cutting, and a heartbreaking bummer when it's a woman who does the cutting?

[cylon]

Originally Posted by Angela

Cylon, I think it's interesting that when it's the woman sticking by her TR guns and cutting off her options at possible love, as a matter of her principles, it's a bummer that "breaks your heart" but when it's you (or, I guess, any man) sticking by his guns and cutting off options at possible love as a matter of principles, (because of a woman who may not be able to sufficiently express her interest in you within the five minute time limit) then it's "her loss" -- which sounds to me like you're emotionally unaffected (or maybe a little snitty).

What's the difference? Why unaffected or snitty when it's the guy doing the cutting, and a heartbreaking bummer when it's a woman who does the cutting?

I don't think I've ever been called "snitty" before. I actually had to look that one up.

I think it's like fit girl said, I just like being called names and put in my place by women. There is no other explanation for me being in this thread. Even now, as I type this I'm like "what the hell are you doing? Stop!"

I quit smoking a month ago yesterday, I am all over the place. On the one hand it is releasing all this good energy I can't contain but it also makes me cranky.

Like I'm going to end the battle of the sexes on a discussion forum, by myself. Like there is a battle of the sexes to begin with?

I've seen the light. Goodnight and good luck.

[RT Wolf]

I love this thread. It's hilarious. In a bittersweet way, because it's just a microcosm of the problems men and women have.

[Angela Leeds]

Originally Posted by Angela

Have you guys/girls heard of this newish trend of speed-eye-contact-dating, where women line up in one line and men in another facing the women, and you spend 3 minutes gazing into one another's eyes to feel the connection? Like speed dating, except no talking, just Being With.

The four hour workweek guy did a blog post about his experience with it; sounded wonderful!

I think that sounds like a fun alternative to this whole "filtering" thing.

Sounds interesting. Do you know where he experienced it? I wonder if there would be a way to market to a wider bunch of prospective attendees in such a way that they wouldn't get freaked out by the idea of "just being with".

Am imagining that I might just get a few blank stares if I brought it up in my neck of the woods. *grin*

[edith]

I was just pondering what an amazing thing it is to try to get to know someone for relationship reasons, rather than just being friends. You'll want that person to be "right" for you in so many more ways that the filtering by using rules and principles is quite important...so many more pitfalls, too. No wonder people want to have some guidelines. You headed toward intimacy with this person. When you let you guard down, will you be sorry? Sure - we want to protect ourselves.

But the problem lies, I think, when people cling to rules once they're in the relationship because then it's about thoughtful consideration of another person and your individuality and their individuality and seeing them as an archetype "women" or "man" doesn't make for getting closer to that person.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Angela Leeds

Sounds interesting. Do you know where he experienced it? I wonder if there would be a way to market to a wider bunch of prospective attendees in such a way that they wouldn't get freaked out by the idea of "just being with".

Am imagining that I might just get a few blank stares if I brought it up in my neck of the woods. *grin*

San Francisco. That is an excellent place to meet people who are open to adventures like this! I love San Francisco.

Read about it here at Timothy Ferris' blog and here, a guy who formalized the process of "eye gazing parties".

[JSB]

Originally Posted by Angela

Have you guys/girls heard of this newish trend of speed-eye-contact-dating, where women line up in one line and men in another facing the women, and you spend 3 minutes gazing into one another's eyes to feel the connection? Like speed dating, except no talking, just Being With.

Sounds like a great way to cut through the artificial persona and get to know someone quickly; I think the nature of the event would be a filter in itself.

Were there any comments on the types of people who showed up at these events? I'm thinking lots of passionate, open, sincere folks mixed in with some very disturbing creeps, but that's just my assumption.

[Angela Leeds]

Seems to me that "rules" on either side of the equation can help to cultivate an awareness of self-respect as well as a road-map showing the way to what one really wants, during a stretch when one's intuition and experience are evolving to be better guides. As that evolves, and one can instantly "see" who's a good fit, who's not a good fit...and as one just naturally acts in a self-respecting way and doesn't waste time with those who are on a different vibe...then the rules don't matter in the least.

They seem like a temporary support, or a technique that could be useful at some point on the continuum. But then there are "grades" after that where one learns how to engage without all of that. Rules help find one's way through a foggy mass of prospective partners, while experienced awareness & intuition help one leap more efficiently "boulder-to-boulder" from one good relationship to the next.

Just my take from where I'm looking at things...

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by Angela Leeds

(Rules) They seem like a temporary support, or a technique that could be useful at some point on the continuum. But then there are "grades" after that where one learns how to engage without all of that. Rules help find one's way through a foggy mass of prospective partners, while experienced awareness & intuition help one leap more efficiently "boulder-to-boulder" from one good relationship to the next.

Absolutely. I outlined in one of my posts that there's a zen approach and a tactical approach. Most people just starting out have too much anxiety and neurosis to possibly be able to do the zen approach - it involves completely letting go of all intention (including marriage and babies) and taking things one moment at a time. We get really good at the tactical approach and master our inner game, then if we're still single by the end of all that we're sufficiently empowered to do zen approach. That's my theory/take on things.



In the TR community I'm in, so much more focus is on Inner Game than on the actual rules - the theory is that if you are already a CUAO then the stuff that's the meat of the rules comes easily. But some of us have to slavishly follow rules to get to that point. I'm into just being a CUAO for its own sake whether I'm dating or not!

[Angela Leeds]

Oh dear... I may have to put my urban dictionary cap on...*grin*

Lessee...TR is The Rules. What's CUAO? And your source for the term "Inner Game"...is that an Eben Pagan thing? Sorry...out of a lot of these loops.