Who pays for the date?

[Zoomorphic]

Hi, everyone.
This is my first relationship with a guy. I don't know much about dating and relationship. Need a bit of advice on this one.

I have been dating this guy for almost 2 months now. We've been casually going out. At the beginning, he paid for all the dates and now recently for the past few dates he stops paying for me. I m a bit disappointed. I dont know why. I dont expect him to pay for all the dates but i would prefer him to pay for the majority of the dates. Am I wrong to expect him to pay for me all the time?
For the past few dates when we are about to pay. He said he needs to go to the cash machine to get more money and that he has enough to pay for his meal only and searching through pockets to find it.
I don't like that in particular, when he asks me to hang out at the weekend and then didnt bring enough money. I dont know if he's doing that to avoid paying. Its not like he has no income.

I dont know what to do now. I really dont know financial dealing in a relationship. I m so embarrassed to ask my friends.
At the moment, I m starting to lose interest in him because i think that he's not very generous and that money is more important to him. Am i wrong?

Also, 2 weeks ago, on Valentine's day I was expecting romantic dinner or maybe he'll plan something nice.
He has no plans for me that day and didnt bring me roses except a box of chocolate and we stayed home. He asked me what i wanted to do on V-day when he arrived but i thought he would plan that special day for me. I was so devastated on V-day because I had never been out on V-day before and knowing that this was my first V-day and that he may be my first boyfriend even if we havent official declared so. My V-day turned was nothing special and memorable.


I dont know what to do now. Should i Dump him?
Am i wrong to have expectations??
Should i date other people instead, I do have few other guys who have been interested in me. I m afraid it may run into the same confusion and uncertainty again.

I would appreciate to get some input from men and women.
I m 23 years old and i want a successful relationship. I cant sleep and its midnight now...

[Elenny]

Talk to him honestly about the problem. That is the most direct way of solving this. Everyone on this forum can give you advice, but the solution will only arrive after you discuss your concerns with him.

Some guys are very good at hiding money problems. So maybe he wants to spend time with you and get to know you better, but he can't afford to go out on dates.

Then you have two options. Dump him and move on to someone else, or come up with a more affordable way of spending time with him.

But this is something you definitely needs to address, because it will not go away on its own (unless he dissapears from your life).

[RT Wolf]

Have you made your expectations to him clear? Have either of you talked about how you'll handle splitting the cheque? Dija tell him that you wanna do something special for V-day and want him to organize it?

As a guy, if a girl expected me to pay for the majority of the dates, I would probably dump her. For one, if I'm paying for her, then I'm doing it as a gift and out of my genorisity, not so that she can get free meals. If she doesn't recognize it as generosity and instead sees it as her right, we've got a problem. Different people handle things differently, so the point is to talk about these things.

The first thing to do, though, is talk to him and ask him waht his expectations are. You can tell him what your expectations are and then discuss things. It's not just you in the relationship.

[Lauxa]

When I was dating, I remember spending a lot of dates hanging out at one of our places, cooking or watching tv or just talking. The point of a date is to get to know one another not to spend lots of money. There's lots of free or cheap stuff you can do on dates. Discuss it with him.

[JackTP]

To be honest I see no reason why a man at your age should pay for you.

This isn't the 1950's.

With equal right comes equal responsibilty.

He is obviously tired of paying for you.

[angies]

what is your financial position? did you ever offer to pay for dinner? I think the other posters are right, may be he thinks you are using him, high maintenance and sick of paying for you. If you confront him with the question, be prepared for the truth. It can break you up.

[openeyes]

When I go out with someone, the focus is on getting to know/spending time with them, not spending money on them (or having it spent on me). The height of formality was usually meeting up for coffee, then if we were enjoying each other's company we'd walk across the street to the local arboretum, sit on a bench and talk more, or climb a tree For what little money was spent, we each paid for ourselves and it was never a question. I didn't try to provide any sort of deceptive excuse for only covering myself, it just didn't come up. If a girl was turned off by that, I'd rather her not want to go out with me again than have her always expect me to pay. I want an equal partner, someone who can initiate/take care of things as much as I can, not a dependent that always needs me to lead and foot the bill.

As for him not planning an exotic valentines date, why didn't you? I love it when a girl gives me chocolates

[magi13]

i usually pay for the date. it's because i want to go out with my love one. unless she invites me to go somewhere it's a given she's the one that's going to pay for the date.

i don't know about you guys, but you should talk about it before going to dates to have a common ground. :3

[Holistic Star]

I don't agree that the guy should pay for the majority of dates. I would expect to pay roughly half. That might mean going halves on a date, or pay for half the dates each.

That said, dates don't have to be expensive. Cooking each other a nice meal, going to the cinema, or out for a couple of drinks. It doesn't need to break the bank.

You might want to look at where your expectations come from that a guy should pay the majority of the time? Are those expectations serving you right now? Are there other more helpful thoughts that make you feel good about yourself, your bf and your relationship?

[magi13]

I guess money is no issue to me, sorry for my previous post.

^^, why not have a date where you guys go on a picnic, or hike over a hill, or something which involves physical activities.

Even going to one's own parent's house and introducing each other to the parents.

i remember once, every date i'd go to, i'd ask the person i wish to be with, to introduce me to her parents so i can take them out on a date (the parents) to get to know them.

This is just me, but i believe it's best to get to know the family you may get to spend your entire life with. if you don't like the family, then you can move on. this should always be a factor that you should include in a relationship.

[ns123]

Why don't you just have an honest conversation about the paying thing? If you can't do that, it doesn't look promising.

Funny personal story: In my family we always fight over who pays the bill, meaning, we don't like the other person to pay. But the general rule is, who ever invites, pays, but of course, both sides always "insist" on paying the bill, but the inviter ends up doing it. I dunno the purpose of the "fight" but it's almost like a game.

When I dated my husband, he was unaware of this. So I ended up paying, all the time. One day, I stopped "fighting" and he paid. And the bill was high, but I had already paid for about 3 dates by this time. So we both decided to do the I pay this time, you get it next time. It was the easiest solution for us. So talk about it, it may be easier and simpler than you think.

[Baka Karasu]

Perhaps without realizing it, you hit the key issue in your initial post: expectations.

"I dont know why. I dont expect him to pay for all the dates but i would prefer him to pay for the majority of the dates. Am I wrong to expect him to pay for me all the time?"

I encourage you to consider where those expectations came from. We live in a highly gendered society with clouds of gender related expectations that are sold to us (quite literally- look at any TV commercial) and that we are "expected" to comply with. If you comply with them you are reinforcing and replicating them. If you do not you are resisting and perhaps changing them. One of the oldest is men displaying their power and resources in mating rituals like "dating" by paying for stuff and giving gifts to women.

Those who responded who suggested more (and more direct) communication are quite correct I think. I would urge you both to share with each other exactly what your expectations are, and not just those related to money.

In general, if you have expectations of others (and of yourself) it is helpful to examine them and consider where they came from and if you really want to meet that expectation.
Any expectation of you or of others is essentially a yes or no question ("will you or won't you meet this expectation?"). For highly socialized people who are unable to detect and resist socialization processes, the answer will almost always be "yes". Often the answer should be "no". (Sometimes the answer should be "HELL NO!!" ;-)

[Brutha]

Why do you want that he pays for the dates?
Is it about the money involved or about wanting to know that he loves you and cares for you?

Different people have different expectations. There are guys who are more conservative and have no problem with paying for dates with a girl and there are guys who think that a girl should pay for her own meals.
That doesn't mean that one cares more about the girl but simply that they have different cultural ideas about having a relationship.

Different country also have different cultural preferences. While it might be normal in the Philippines to ask someone you date about meeting their parents it's not something that happens as fast in the West in most relationships.

If your boyfriend has another idea about a relationship than you you can talk with him about it and either you find common ground or you don't and therefore leave your relationship.
There isn't a right cultural norm. The thing that matters are your norms and the norms of your partner and whether you are willing to accept the results of following your values.

Since we don't know where you live and the people around you we also can't tell you how likely it is that you will find a guy that also shares the idea that it's his responsibility to pay for the date.

[Amandaaa]

I think it all depends on where you are in your relationship, how serious you are...how well you know each other... and what both of your views are on modern gender roles.

I've never dated a guy who wasn't a hopeless romantic... so they've always done all the traditional things, like making the first call, picking you up, opening your car door, paying for everything, choosing the restaurant, making the reservations, dropping you off at home, pursuing you, etc. (Basically: just leading the way and taking charge.) I like guys who have traditional roots, and enjoy being chivalrous.

Me and my current boyfriend have been together for 8 years, and he still insists on paying for everything every time we go anywhere together. He won't even let me pay for a $5 Blockbuster movie. Even if we just stop at a gas station so I can get gum and a drink, he insists on getting it for me. And I think that every true gentleman should offer to pay...

But at the same time, as a girl, you should try to make it easier on him by demonstrating your independence, too. Like, if we're out to dinner, I always order water and something small off of the appetizer menu. I don't order a $40 entree, dessert or $10 drinks. It's polite to be a cheap date-- especially in the beginning. (I just think it's rude to assume that the guy wants to pay that much for your meal when he's still getting to know you. It's not really about the food, anyway-- you're just trying to spend time together.) So never order the most expensive things on the menu, unless you're planning on throwing some money in, too.



As a general rule, I think that in formal dates (where you're meeting each other for the first time, or you're going to a fancy restaurant), the guy should pay. (But you should always offer.) And in casual settings, where you're just hanging out, but you're not officially "boyfriend/girlfriend"... the girl should buy her own stuff- and maybe offer to get his stuff, too.

For example: if you're hanging out with a guy that you've had a crush on for a long time, and you both have mutual friends, and you've known each other for a while...and you hook up some nights, but there aren't any "labels"... then you're still in that gray "friend" area, where he wouldn't be expected to pay for anything. Once you move into an official boyfriend/girlfriend "relationship," he should offer to pay for most of your outings. But once you move into a serious, long-term relationship, the chivalry becomes two-sided, and the girl should step up as often as the guy does. The longer you've been together, the more two-sided it becomes. If you've been together for a few years, then everything should be relatively equal. (e.g., I just bought my boyfriend $200 tickets so we could go to a football game together.)




It's possible that this guy isn't interested in a serious relationship with you right now, and that's why he's keeping you at a distance by separating the finances. But it's also possible that he really does like you, and he's just in a tight money situation... and doesn't have the funds to support a girl who expects him to be her checking account.




(But on the bright side, there are a lot of things that you can do together for free. It doesn't cost money to hang out on the couch and watch movies.... or to go to a friend's party, or to go to the beach, or to go boating, or hiking, or whatever. 80% of my relationship has been free from the very beginning... You just have to be spontaneous together.)

[StellaBlue]

I don't expect guys to pay for me when we go out. I almost always offer to pay or split. I think two people should give equally in all aspects of a relationship, or at least as equally as they can. It would be a bit different if he was very wealthy and wanted to go to expensive restaurants that you couldn't afford...

That being said, the problem I do see is that he seems not to be upfront with you about how he feels. The whole making excuses when it comes time to pay would ring a bell for me. I wouldn't like that and that, to me, would be a much bigger issue than the money itself.

[Yellow]

I think you are expecting too much. One person paying for majority of the dates is wayyy too much. It is him AND you in this relationship. It sounds like you are expecting him to do all the work. I would agree that I like the idea of my bf treating me well on Vday and it sort of being MY day (which it isn't but I'd like to be treated specially), but from the post it seems like you are expecting HIM to take charge and take care of you, which should go both ways.

But I think you are asking the right question about your expectations. Even though, I disagree with how you assumed it should work, it will be best to discuss it with him. He may be willing to do it or you may find good reasons for not holding that expectation anymore.

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by StellaBlue

I don't expect guys to pay for me when we go out. I almost always offer to pay or split. I think two people should give equally in all aspects of a relationship, or at least as equally as they can. It would be a bit different if he was very wealthy and wanted to go to expensive restaurants that you couldn't afford...

That being said, the problem I do see is that he seems not to be upfront with you about how he feels. The whole making excuses when it comes time to pay would ring a bell for me. I wouldn't like that and that, to me, would be a much bigger issue than the money itself.

Yeah I agree with StellaBlue. If he's not willing to be upfront about it, then there's a problem there. You might as well take power and exersize it and be upfront and have a discussion about your expectations.

That includes your expectations of Valentines Day. You know, not all women believe the same thing as you about Valentines Day. Some women want nothing to do with Valentines Day as well, feeling it is a manufactured holiday designed to sell stuff. I dated one woman like that, and I did absolutely nothing different on Valentines Day with her because I knew her expectations (which I shared in - I don't like Valentines Day as it's too artificial for my taste anyway).

So, that's something to discuss with him - with any guy you're dating in truth - what your expectations are and find out what his are to see if you guys can have (or come to) mutual expectations and all that good stuff.

[robc]

Originally Posted by Zoomorphic

Hi, everyone.
This is my first relationship with a guy. I don't know much about dating and relationship. Need a bit of advice on this one.

I have been dating this guy for almost 2 months now. We've been casually going out. At the beginning, he paid for all the dates and now recently for the past few dates he stops paying for me. I m a bit disappointed. I dont know why. I dont expect him to pay for all the dates but i would prefer him to pay for the majority of the dates. Am I wrong to expect him to pay for me all the time?For the past few dates when we are about to pay. He said he needs to go to the cash machine to get more money and that he has enough to pay for his meal only and searching through pockets to find it.
I don't like that in particular, when he asks me to hang out at the weekend and then didnt bring enough money. I dont know if he's doing that to avoid paying. Its not like he has no income.

I dont know what to do now. I really dont know financial dealing in a relationship. I m so embarrassed to ask my friends.
At the moment, I m starting to lose interest in him because i think that he's not very generous and that money is more important to him. Am i wrong?

Also, 2 weeks ago, on Valentine's day I was expecting romantic dinner or maybe he'll plan something nice.
He has no plans for me that day and didnt bring me roses except a box of chocolate and we stayed home. He asked me what i wanted to do on V-day when he arrived but i thought he would plan that special day for me. I was so devastated on V-day because I had never been out on V-day before and knowing that this was my first V-day and that he may be my first boyfriend even if we havent official declared so. My V-day turned was nothing special and memorable.


I dont know what to do now. Should i Dump him?
Am i wrong to have expectations??
Should i date other people instead, I do have few other guys who have been interested in me. I m afraid it may run into the same confusion and uncertainty again.

I would appreciate to get some input from men and women.
I m 23 years old and i want a successful relationship. I cant sleep and its midnight now...

Did you read that part specifically (you wrote it):
"...I dont expect him to pay for all the dates but i would prefer him to pay for the majority of the dates. Am I wrong to expect him to pay for me all the time?"

1. You don't expect him to pay for all the dates.
2. You would prefer him to pay for the majority of the dates.
3. Then you ask if you are wrong to expect him to pay for you all of the time

So which is it? You don't expect him to pay for all the dates, you expect the majority of them to paid for by him, you expect him to pay for you all the time?

I'm wondering if you are indecisive with other things you do together?

FYI - it's boring when a guy has to pay all the time. When do you invest in him? A guy should not be expected to pay for all the dates or the majority of them. Women earn as much as men do, there's no reason why a woman shouldn't be expected to chip in or pay for dates.

Plus he is investing you all of the time. Where is his return on this investment? You expected valentine's day to be something special & romantic that he planned. If he's been doing all of the investing in all of your dates thus far, it's quite possible he thought maybe you would show some gratitude and plan a great valentine's day to show him that you appreciate the fact that he's been footing the bill while you've been dating.

It's actually a smart thing he's doing. He's trying to determine if all you're interested in is a meal ticket. If he stops paying for the dates, he'll find out if you're genuinely interested in him or his wallet. If it's the latter, he'll find out soon enough because you are thinking about dating other people - that's how I would think about this and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this type of thinking.

Another thing to consider is this. If he is expected to pay for all the dates and it's just something you expect him to do all the time, is he allowed to expect sex after every date because you expected him to pay for every date? Is that a fair expectation for him to have of you or would you consider that manipulative & controlling for him to expect something from you for what he's doing.

During all of this time of thinking about your expectations (and probably being transparent about it, either vocally or in the way you carry yourself or respond), did you consider his expectations from all of this dating?

It is evident that this is the first time you've been dating someone, it's a very immature way of dealing with people. Maybe he's just trying to be nice to you and not be honest that paying for you all the time is boring him, he may be looking for a way out.

I would say talk to him, get it out in the open - you are just dating, you aren't married. If you can't be honest with each other at this stage of the game and aren't willing to change, how much better could it get?

If this came out that I was coming down hard on you, don't look at it that way, look at it that someone is being honest with you about how you are acting.

[pyrogen]

Who pays for the dates?

It depends upon whether or not you are following a traditional relationship model. No model is bad or good, it just depends upon what you want. I am gathering that you are following the traditional model of being the keeper of the feminine energy (the one who is cherished) while he is the keeper of the masculine energy (the one who makes things happen).

What bothers me here is that suddenly he reverted into selfish behavior after dating him... suddenly stopped paying for you, without even a conversation about it.

I think women are perfectly justified in having men pay for dates. We pay to date too, just not with money. Men do not spend nearly the amount of money just to look good so they get asked in the first place. It all evens out in the end.

I've been in a number of kinds of relationships - ones where I paid for everything (they usually expected to be the recipient of the cherishing energy, it goes with that dynamic), ones where they did, and ones where we went dutch.

I feel I've been treated best *on the whole* - in areas having nothing to do with money - from the men who paid.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to reciprocate here and there especially once you're IN a relationship. This can be done in a far more romantic and cherishing way than splitting the bill. He can pay for something here and there, you can plan "free" things and make dinner for him. It's the energy that counts, not the money. But the way he is handling things makes it sound like his interest is waning. After a few months he should still be chasing you.

You're not wrong to have the expectations you have. You SHOULD have expectations; it's healthy to have expectations.

[ShiningLight]

Any self-respecting guy would not want to pay ALL the time for a girl who is not even WILLING to OFFER to pay.

Sounds like your boyfriend is starting to realize his own respect for himself.

Do you want a boyfriend or an ATM machine?

[TDRock]

Originally Posted by Zoomorphic

We've been casually going out.

the end. It's unrealistic to have expectations from a casual relationship no matter how long it's been going on.

If he's just a cash cow to you, he'll use you as a 'trick' until he's tired of you and moves on. Sounds like that may be what's happening. Always best to start relationships as human beings first and then see how things go.

[Eric Roosevelt]

Originally Posted by ShiningLight

Any self-respecting guy would not want to pay ALL the time for a girl who is not even WILLING to OFFER to pay.

Exactly. I'd be willing to pay for the first few dates perhaps, but I certainly wouldn't make it a habit. Very few guys actually want to give up their money. Although if that's how some people decide to do it, I really don't see a problem with it.

I think you should toss a coin before every date to make it more exciting...

Or just go the boring way and pay for every-other date.

[robc]

Originally Posted by pyrogen

Who pays for the dates?

It depends upon whether or not you are following a traditional relationship model. No model is bad or good, it just depends upon what you want. I am gathering that you are following the traditional model of being the keeper of the feminine energy (the one who is cherished) while he is the keeper of the masculine energy (the one who makes things happen).

What bothers me here is that suddenly he reverted into selfish behavior after dating him... suddenly stopped paying for you, without even a conversation about it.

I think women are perfectly justified in having men pay for dates. We pay to date too, just not with money. Men do not spend nearly the amount of money just to look good so they get asked in the first place. It all evens out in the end.

I've been in a number of kinds of relationships - ones where I paid for everything (they usually expected to be the recipient of the cherishing energy, it goes with that dynamic), ones where they did, and ones where we went dutch.

I feel I've been treated best *on the whole* - in areas having nothing to do with money - from the men who paid.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to reciprocate here and there especially once you're IN a relationship. This can be done in a far more romantic and cherishing way than splitting the bill. He can pay for something here and there, you can plan "free" things and make dinner for him. It's the energy that counts, not the money. But the way he is handling things makes it sound like his interest is waning. After a few months he should still be chasing you.

You're not wrong to have the expectations you have. You SHOULD have expectations; it's healthy to have expectations.

"...I think women are perfectly justified in having men pay for dates. We pay to date too, just not with money. Men do not spend nearly the amount of money just to look good so they get asked in the first place. It all evens out in the end."

If you don't pay to date with money, then you're not paying.

It's not the 1970s, men do take care of themselves: clothes, hair, cologne, shoes, going to gym, etc.

Expecting men to pay for dates purely on the model of you spending money to look good is just dumb. If that's your expectation based on the fact that you pay alot of money to look good, I guess it's a fair expectation for men to have earned sex with you after a date. Men paid for the date, you paid to look good, obviously to be attractive to your date so that he would want to be physically intimate with you.

Do you see how that sounds ridiculous?!

It's 2009, men & women both earn the same amount of money, men & women are both equal and there should be no expectation of men paying for the dates based on the fact that you spend alot of money making yourself look good. Start acting like it and stop thinking like you deserve something more just because you're a woman - in reality no one deserves anything. You get what you get because that's what you want, not because it's what you deserve.

"....I think it's perfectly reasonable to reciprocate here and there especially once you're IN a relationship."

It's perfectly reasonable....
Here & there....

Seriously and maybe I way off here, but you do sound very full of yourself.

A great relationship is all about reciprocation and not just here & there either - if it isn't mutually beneficial, one partner is going to start looking else where for 'mutual benefits'.

"....You're not wrong to have the expectations you have. You SHOULD have expectations; it's healthy to have expectations."

It's ok to have preferences, expectations place alot of pressure on a partner, especially when they're unrealistic. If I use your example then it's ok for a guy to expect his wife to cook & clean everyday and take care of the kids (and also have a job) while he comes from his job and sits on the couch & watches tv while she's putting in her "2nd shift" at home.

Every now & then a jolt is added to a thread which makes it more colorful, I would say you supplied it for me this time pyro - no offense but you are definitely not the kind of person I would ever date or be in a relationship with, your vibe is totally at odds with me. You wrote that it bothers you that this guy became totally selfish all of a sudden and stopped paying for dates without conversation (or asking for approval it sounds like it) while you're post sounds like it is written by someone who is very selfish themselves.

Get down from the pedestal when you get a chance, breathe the air on the main floor, it's actually not that bad. LOL!

[JSB]

Taking a woman out, treating her, and making her feel special makes me feel good as a man.

Taking a woman out and treating her every time I see her because she expects it makes me feel like an unpaid babysitter.

Men paid all the time back when women stayed home and didn't earn their own money. If it is reasonable for you to expect him to pay for you all the time, then it is reasonable for him to expect you to clean his house and do his laundry.

[robc]

Originally Posted by JSB

Taking a woman out, treating her, and making her feel special makes me feel good as a man.

Taking a woman out and treating her every time I see her because she expects it makes me feel like an unpaid babysitter.

Men paid all the time back when women stayed home and didn't earn their own money. If it is reasonable for you to expect him to pay for you all the time, then it is reasonable for him to expect you to clean his house and do his laundry.

- couldn't have said it better myself!

[Angela Leeds]

Zoomorphic...the thing to keep in mind is that there is no universal rule about this. It all depends on what you want...what do you want to experience out of your romantic relationships? How do you want to experience your femininity? Or rather, what face of your femininity do you want to express?

This is where gender issues come in. Many women (especially American women) have been assuming more traditionally masculine roles, as part of their path to experience freedom & independence & power, while many men (especially American men) have been assuming more traditionally feminine roles, as part of their path to experience more sensitivity and well...probly more than not, to please the women in their lives. *grin*

A man paying for a date, and a woman graciously allowing a man to pay for her, is more than just about the finances. There's a book I *highly* recommend; it's one of the Dr. John Gray books: "Mars and Venus on a Date". Silly title, but really awesome book in order to understand the benefits of "dating" along traditional gender lines. And yes...there are benefits, if a man wants to feel "manly" and a woman wants to feel "womanly". I've turned a number of my friends onto that book over the years, and none of them ever got more than halfway through the book before giving me a call to tell me they were *blown away* by it, and wished they'd had it many years back.

Alternatively, you could also take the even-steven approach of paying for dates that others have mentioned here. As with any approach, you gain something & lose something. You will lose a quality of your femininity but gain a sense of autonomy & assertiveness. It's all cool...depends what you want.

For my part, I'm probably the most independent woman I know. But I am attracted to men who have a plan, who enjoy making a woman happy, and who generally pay for the date & don't whine about doing so. And yes...I also pay, I also seek out ways to economize or do things that don't cost money. But I know that if at the start of a relationship, the man wants to split the check, we're not compatible, because we're after different experiences in the relationship. I enjoy a man who enjoys making a woman feel feminine, because it makes him feel masculine. It's a primal thing, not just a cultural thing.

But you can chart your own course, based on what *you* want to experience. I've gone the other route, as well.

So...lend some thought to it so you can make some conscious decisions. And talk to your young man about it, definitely!

[pyrogen]

Originally Posted by Angela Leeds

For my part, I'm probably the most independent woman I know. But I am attracted to men who have a plan, who enjoy making a woman happy, and who generally pay for the date & don't whine about doing so. And yes...I also pay, I also seek out ways to economize or do things that don't cost money. But I know that if at the start of a relationship, the man wants to split the check, we're not compatible, because we're after different experiences in the relationship. I enjoy a man who enjoys making a woman feel feminine, because it makes him feel masculine. It's a primal thing, not just a cultural thing.

I feel the same way you do. Except I don't manage to communicate myself very well without coming off as a demanding b!tch, sigh.

[Angela Leeds]

Originally Posted by pyrogen

I feel the same way you do. Except I don't manage to communicate myself very well without coming off as a demanding b!tch, sigh.

I read your post above & agree.

What's so commonly forgotten when talk of money & equality enter a dating discussion is that...women still make less & do more, and have pressures and costs to "look" good that men don't have. I mean -- and this floors me every month -- we still live in a society where women are actually *taxed* on tampons, which cost an arm & a leg compared to what they're made from. *grin*

If a guy wants to go even-steven, maybe he also wants to date a woman that's like a guy...stick me in a pair of chinos, cut my hair nice & short & easily stylable with some gel, and I'll be good to go in 5 minutes.

Not that being low-key as a woman doesn't have it' place. I'm lazy & busy and take whatever short-cuts I can. But I'm making a point...

"Equal cost" doesn't necessarily get split over the dinner tab. There's far more going into the equation.

[pyrogen]

Angela Leeds:

Yep. It's not just money, it's energy. After having to nurture, nurture, nurture all day, and take care of stuff, I like to have at least one person who can nurture ME. And I've found so much that whenever I've dated a guy who was quibbling over the check usually we'd end up quibbling over so much other stuff. There would be so many other (free) ways in which he wouldn't be very giving.

A broke guy can still be giving... by taking charge and planning (cheap or free) things. Being taken for a picnic is much more romantic than splitting the tab.

[Angela Leeds]

Exactly, pyrogen...well-said.

As a long-time single mother and working professional, I take care of my family, my household, my business...I make all the decisions, am always thinking, planning, and coordinating. As I said, I am very independent & capable, and I know it and therefore am in no way an activist about gaining my power because I *have* it.

But the last thing I want is for a man and a date to be another child or another project I have to take care of.

That's not to say the OP should feel the same or make the same choices...the beauty is she can construct her relationships based on whatever values she wants.

But if a woman encourages 50/50 over the dinner tab all the time, I suspect there she may also be encouraging a lack of appreciation of what she brings to the table in other areas, because if a guy is graspy over the check it tells me he just doesn't see into those other dimensions.

Well...and there are women who don't either.