Lonely as hell

[Gregorz]

The things I'm about to talk about in this post have been bothering me a lot lately, and it's something I've never explicitly mentioned on these forums. So I thought I'd follow Steve's example and finally Share my Shame. I don't beat myself up about these things anymore, but they still bother me greatly. So if you can be bothered to read all of this, and if you have the kindness to try and help me crawl out of this mire, then my deepest gratitude goes out to you.

I'm 20 years old, and I've never been in a relationship. Never even kissed a girl. People who know me tend to be surprised at this; I'm a "nice guy", and I've got a brain and a sense of humour. I'm not the best looking in the block, but I take care of myself and I'm certainly not ugly. I was somewhat overweight in school, these days I have a few extra pounds I'd like to get rid of but according to my friends I look like a normal weight.

I've wanted a girlfriend since I was 12 years old, and it's been scratching at the door of my mind like a persistent cat for the past 8 years. Certainly, I haven't always been suitable for a relationship; in school I was still very immature, moreso than my peers. I've always been bad at socialising, and very slow at learning new things, so in school I was very much the bullied nerd. I even read up on seduction material, just to try and become more outgoing, but it never went anywhere.

Part of this is probably due to the fact that I have Asperger's Syndrome, though I wasn't officially diagnosed until my later teens. As such, I didn't get any help at school with it; in fact, they kicked me out at 16 since I couldn't organise myself well enough to get things in on deadlines. After that, I managed to get into another college to complete the last year of the A-level (UK qualification) that I'd started at my old school. This year was very hard, as I'd been separated from all my friends and over the course of the year didn't manage to make any new ones. For the most part I spent my lunch hour in the library, not eating until I got home since I was too embarrassed to sit alone in the dining hall.

I managed to complete the course, but they told me they wouldn't accept me back for another year if I did apply (after telling me at the beginning of the year how shocked they were at how brusquely my previous school had treated me). After having the same thing happen twice in a row, my self-worth was really shot to the ground.

Thanks to my mum's pushing, I applied for a university to do a course which I was really passionate about: creative writing. If there had been a positive in my 1 year at that college, it was that in my free time I'd joined an online community of writers and spent almost the entire year writing very actively. I've always been a fairly good writer anyway, so when I joined the uni I was far ahead of most people on the course, and still am (albeit not in grades; I'm still hampered by procrastination and poor organisation).

Staying at university and living with other people on-campus was a fantastic experience. It forced me to socialise and my skills in that area grew immensely. My friends still thought that I was somewhat introverted, since I stayed in my room most of the day (I enjoyed hanging around with them, but all day doing nothing but sitting in a kitchen gets boring, IMO) but they were immensely surprised to find out I was a virgin. All of them insisted that that would be all over by the end of the year. I told them that whilst I certainly hoped that was the case, they were under-estimating my introvertedness.

When I joined university, I was also determined to find an answer to my procrastination. I had thought that doing a subject which I loved (Creative Writing) would mean I'd be very enthusiastic. And I was, at first, but apparently when you change your interests to 'work', then you start to lose motivation to do it. I knew that if other people could learn to beat procrastination, to be able to make themselves work all through the day if they wanted, then so could I, even if it took me my entire life. That's when I found Steve Pavlina's site, ironically though polyphasic sleep. With the help of his articles I started to change into the person I'd always wanted to be.

But I still didn't make any progress in relationships that year, despite my friends' insistence that I would. In fact, outside of the friends that I lived with, I didn't really make any new friends. I got on well enough with people in classrooms, but I only ever talked to 1 person outside of the classroom who wasn't in my campus corridor. None of the clubs or societies interested me, but in retrospect yes, I probably should've joined one anyway.

This isn't too relevant to the story, but I feel it would be wrong not to mention it: in the same year, one of my housemates introduced me to weed. I'd never enjoyed alcohol much, despite being able to drink it legally in the UK, so I wasn't a fan of bars, clubs etc (not to mention that actual conversation is impossible when your eardrums are numb). But weed was different; I got no bad side-effects from it, and it made me happy. The only bad thing was possibly how much I liked it.

I should mention at this point one other thing which still bothers me a lot: my obsessive focus. I have lots of interests, but it's very hard for me to focus on more than one at a time. This is apparently characteristic of people with Asperger's, and it's one of the few traits I haven't been able to get around (social skills can be learned to the point where most adult people with Asperger's seem no different from any other person). When something (be it writing, self-improvement, a videogame or a person) becomes my obsession, it's hard to think about anything but it. I attribute a lot of my difficulty with completing coursework to this; if it's not my immediate interest, I simply can't work on it for long. But if something becomes my focus, then you can expect that I'll know everything about it within a month, able to write 10,000 word essays on it. This can work to my advantage, it's just a pain in the ass most of the time.

So, when I started smoking weed, I loved it so much that it became my new focus. I researched it heavily (I didn't want to use something which would damage my body; turns out it's less harmful than alcohol or tobacco), learned to roll perfect joints, etc etc. Because weed had become my new main interest, self-improvement fell to the side. Whilst I wasn't actively reading new material, though, I was still working on myself, and in my second year of university I went back and started reading again. I made a lot of progress, and since then I have become a brand new person, much happier and wiser.

But halfway through my third year of university, I'm still lonely as hell, especially since I've just moved out of my shared accommodation. After a while, people start to grate on me, so I just couldn't stand living with my old friends anymore. I get the feeling that I wouldn't tire of people so quickly if I had more friends to hang around with, but it's hard to find people who I mesh with. Not to be arrogant, but in the past few years I've become much smarter than the average person. My interests are also very different from the norm. It's really hard to find people who are likewise.

And the thing which is bothering me on an immediate level, the reason I made this thread, is my love life. I joined a dating site last year, and every time I find someone who I really like, who I think I might actually get along with in a long-term relationship with, I get really hung up on them. My logical mind tells me to stop getting so attached, but when people stop messaging me back I still get really upset. It's ridiculous. I did the same thing back in school, getting really upset when the 1 girl I liked didn't want to go out with me, and the same thing in university when I sent a message to a girl who seemed 'zomg perfect' and she ignored me. It's not like this happens frequently, only when I, for some reason, get attached to someone.

It's probably because I've never been in a relationship before, and I know (hell, I'm sure a few PUAs will tell me) that the more experienced you get, the less rejection and so on will bother you. But if I can't get into a relationship, I'm never going to learn. I've already long-since learned everything about them which can be read up on. I'm 20, I'm lonely as hell, and I'm afraid that this is a cycle which will go on until one day I finally just give up for good.

If you took the time to read all of this boring tripe, I'm very grateful. I didn't mean for it to get so long, but I'm at the end of my tether. I don't know what to do. You guys are one of the most helpful, intelligent communities I've ever been a part of, so if anyone can help out, it's here.

[gretzkyjunior]

Well, I'm only 16, but I'll try and draw as best as I can from my experiences to help you out.

The first thing I noticed is the mentioning of your Asperger's Syndrome more than once. Not to be rude, but to me it seems like you may be using it as somewhat of an excuse which is likely holding you back.

You see, I got diagnosed with autism when I was about 5, and then again got diagnosed with another learning disability at about age 12. At this point in my life I was living with my grandparents, and my grandmother always made the schools give me the easy way out. I was also very bad socially, I only had a very small circle of friends. But then I moved in with my mom and stepdad for highschool...the changes I've made are astronomical. They gave me that "never say die" attitude, and I have without a doubt proven myself to be without autism. I have since become a very outgoing person, have had a few good relationships, and have an endless list of acquaintances along with a fairly large circle of friends. I am also achieving very well in school for my so called "learning disability," I get 75-80% averages every year, and although it isn't something to brag about, I don't even try that hard... All that I needed was confidence.

And also, I noticed how you stated that you thought you would do great at your university course because it was something you were really enthusiastic about. Well, I have recently learned a lesson: The lesson of not letting your emotions guide you completely. What I've done is listened to what my heart wants, and then rule out the emotions until I achieve what I wanted. For example, last year I started weight lifting to increase my athletic performance in ice hockey. I would get right pumped to go work out, and this emotion would disappear over a few weeks, and I found myself right back where I started. You have to get your self discipline up and get your heart to shut up once in a while. I'm still learning how to do this, but I've made great changes over the past few weeks that I've been employing it. I get myself out of bed everyday at 5 am now, because I like to be an early riser. I do all my school homework, and even work ahead to the next lesson, because I don't listen to my laziness and instead let my self discipline guide me. You simply have to guide yourself by not only emotion, but by self discipline too.

About the relationship part. I would start out very slow doing more outgoing things little by little. For example, smile at strangers, then after you feel comfortable doing that, start saying hi to them, and then you'll eventually start feeling comfortable enough to strike up conversations. I've improved my outgoing-ness by doing that. The key for me to being outgoing is to always step outside of my comfort zone little by little.

Just take it one day at a time. Good luck to you sir

ALSO: Try your best to not get obsessive over people. I was once that way, and by learning to be more casual about everything, I have improved my results a lot. I just take everything one day at a time, like I said before. I also learned that by not expecting any return of love from women I may be pursuing, I am often very happy with the results I get, because in 90% of cases it will be more than nothing. Even if you get a negative reaction, at least you will have learned something.

[Gregorz]

I sometimes used Asperger's as an excuse in the past, but I recognised it and these days I definitely don't. Most of the time I actually forget I 'have it', but since I was thinking heavily on my whole 'obsessive focus' thing today, I remembered that's a trait of Asperger's and so it got sucked up into my whole ramble. I use it as a helpful explanation for why I'm more inclined to do some things, but nothing else.

I had a similar thing to you in school. I managed to get better grades than most of my peers without trying. But I used it as a bit of a crutch, and so I never really learned self-discipline. But then once I hit college, the workload was too much for me to handle and I started missing things, so they kicked me out despite my grades being better than average. I had to make up for it and start learning self-discipline once I hit uni, but I'm still on the quest to beat procrastination.

The problem I've got with focusing on people is that I logically know that it's completely ridiculous to get hung up on the opinions of one person, but emotionally it's a different story. At one point I decided to not get my hopes up anymore, to just stop trying, and during that time I wasn't upset ... but I wasn't really happy, either. I was very emotionally closed-off for a long time. The past few years I've opened back up and started trying again, but it means I get upset a lot more as a result.

Typing up that post did help a lot, though. I already feel not bothered by the rejection which spurned me into writing it. Considering I used to get hung up and depressed for weeks/months after a rejection, I think I'm starting to get past it a bit.

Thanks for reading and replying, it's really appreciated.

[Angela]

Hey, Gregorz. I don't have any advice for you, I'm sorry; but I just wanted to let you know I read your posts and am thinking about you.

[jaamkie]

hey
I'm wondering... aside from weed, what are you passionate about? I think finding like-minded groups would help give you more time to socialize aside from dating, which would then help you relax about dating, since you wouldn't be looking to one person for all social interaction and affection. If you do well on tests, maybe MENSA? The group in my area has lots of events and there's such a variety of kooky smart people... Or are you at all into any kind of art, or anything geeky/techie like robots etc? Just suggestions cos art and techie groups tend to be more understanding of Aspie-ish symptoms than some other groups...

As far as dating and obsessing about a single person, maybe a bit more structure would help- forcing yourself to talk to X number of girls and eventually to go on dates with X number of girls per biweek, to keep in contact with them each and moving forward with dating until they say no or until one tells you they want to be exclusive, etc... I know it's easy to get stuck on idealizing one perfect person before you've really gotten to know them, but if you have several in mind at any time, it is easier to move on when one says "no thanks". If I were you, after finding some social groups aside from dating (cos then you'll be less lonely, more interesting and busy, generally more attractive), I'd make dating my priority for a few months- I'd commit myself to go online and contact several new women each day until I got responses and was moving forward with at least 3 to 5, commit myself to one or more speed-dating events to practice in-person introductions and conversation while still working on arranging real dates, and commit myself to not daydreaming/obsessing about any of the women until I got to know them and they displayed interest in a relationship (with the rule being, if you start daydreaming/idealizing, you go running, or start reading, or etc- something else that is good for you but that you procrastinate about and that will take your mind off of the girl). I'd also try to find friends or your-age-family who might check your hygiene, clothes, and mannerisms and give you tips-I know Aspies can sometimes be unconscious of little things that make them seem socially odd, and you just have to learn to consciously compensate for them at least when first meeting new people. Particularly the clothes thing, checking fit and colors and general guidelines on appropriate clothes for various situations- I'm sure they're not ALL wrong now, but checking in with someone will give you more confidence that your Aspergers is not holding you back.

[Gregorz]

That was a really helpful post, jaamkie, you hit the nail on the head with a few things (like daydreaming/idealising about girls I'm crushing on, though I already tell my brain to shut up when that happens). I definitely used to do some awkward things -- I once had the sudden revelation "you should smile when you say hello to people" -- but these days most of my body language etc has become natural and I do it unconsciously, so I'm pretty comfortable once I'm in a social situation. It's just getting into them that I'm not used to

Weed's not my current 'focus', but it was for a little while. I'm mostly into typical nerdy stuff like gaming, as well as writing and more recently I've gotten back into art and started reading up a lot on meditation and such. But you reminded me that I really need to get more hobbies. I actually have a big word file of things which I'm not doing but which I think would be fun to get into (like learning the cello). I've also been looking into joining a local martial arts club.

I do have an older brother that can help me with such stuff (he actually told me he was going to take me to buy some clothes and then hit the town at christmas, but he's been pretty busy recently so I don't want to bother him about it) and happens to be a social casanova, but he's staying in London at the moment.

[jaamkie]

yea it can be difficult to get yourself out there into new social situations. I feel like I'm not being very social myself these days, but realized it is a matter of time and energy and other priorities, and I'm trying to maintain a few activities/groups while also not stressing myself about it. One of the things I do when feeling lonely (usually due to several months of self-isolation, usually cos I get busy with non-social interests/activities or too much family time) is to "clean out" my life to make more space for socializing. I clean out and organize my things, and I do a mental inventory of my habits, how I spend most of my time, and decide what will be cut if I'm going to intentionally spend more time in social situations. In the past, that's been to stop worrying about my treadmill workouts and focus more on social exercise- playing soccer, hiking, etc; to get rid of my TV or to stop watching it- cos it's a huge time waster!; to stop buying books and spending every free moment reading; and to stop habitual internet time-wasting (news sites, forums, favorite blogs, etc). Clearing out my life helps me to have an empty schedule and realize I want to do social things earlier in the day and make plans to do them before it is 1 am and I'm lonely and there's nothing I can do about it until the next day.

I wonder if you know any local creative writing groups? Or going to readings at local bookshops etc? Or for gaming, if there are any meetup groups/LAN parties that make it a social thing? Or some bars at least in my area have Wiis that people play...? Meditation you could certainly find small groups I would think... though if it were me I wouldn't be in a mood to socialize before/after meditating. Anyway, I'm sure you'll come up with the details if you decide it is worth your effort- best of luck!

[blaerG]

holy **** guys try to shorten your posts. holy ****, i'd like to help, but i'm not going to spend an hour reading 1 thread.

lonely? no girlfriend? you belong in the seduction community.

[Gregorz]

If you don't wanna read it, you could always just ignore it. Replying without reading it is kinda pointless, as I already said I've read a lot of stuff from the seduction community.

[lisamelinda]

bug your brother! It's your brother after all. ask him to take you out. It's hard because you always don't want to 'impose' on people. I'm like that too. but i would happily take out anyone who asked me, with pleasure. so why don't i ask? You sound like a very interesting person! I'll think about it because i don't want to give bad advice (half of me is thinking you will meet someone, just wait it out, the other half wants to say just go to a bar, and randomly meet someone and kiss them!)

[Aleksander Krstic]

Originally Posted by Gregorz

The things I'm about to talk about in this post have been bothering me a lot lately, and it's something I've never explicitly mentioned on these forums. So I thought I'd follow Steve's example and finally Share my Shame. I don't beat myself up about these things anymore, but they still bother me greatly. So if you can be bothered to read all of this, and if you have the kindness to try and help me crawl out of this mire, then my deepest gratitude goes out to you...

What really helped me was going to the psychiatric clinic for two months, and I think it would exceptionally good for you if you think you have Asperger's syndrom.

I admit I still haven't had any relationships like you, but go to the clinic still helped improve the social skills a lot.

[Kura Ookami]

Do you feel like you don't deserve to be loved by a beautiful woman? Do you believe that you shouldn't succeed? Deep down do you believe that you're not worthy of success with beuatiful women?

If so you might want to buy: Permission to succeed by Noah St. John

It isn't another pickup or seduction book. It's a book that addresses the fear of success many of us have.

[Gregorz]

Nah, it's really not about self-esteem (not anymore, at least; in the past few years I've come far). I think it's largely just because I'm not exposing myself to enough people.

And I went to a couple of psychologists in my teens, for quite a while. Ultimately they just told me what I already knew, and since I know myself a lot better now than I did then, I don't think they'd be able to tell me much more now. I think my problems aren't from not knowing enough, they're from not taking enough action.

[lasti]

Don't beat yourself up about it. You're not lonely because you've never had a relationship, it's the other way round. If you can enjoy the time with yourself other people will enjoy that, too.

If you're more self-confident and able to enjoy yourself you will get rid of the whole attachment thing as well. Attachment is the result of addiction, which is a result of your belief that you have deficencies. But you don't have deficiencies. I'm sure your totally awesome! Do you feel that? Do you know that? Have you ever told yourself that?

The solution is NOT find somebody else you're comfortable. The solution is become comfortable with yourself. And then other people will join you.

[SimonaRich]

You should not focus on not having a relationship because you will stay single.

Just enjoy your time and be happy with people that you have in your life at the moment. Only by appreciating what you have in your life now, you will be able to receive something more later on.

[Andrew Brunelle]

Hey, man, it's not so bad. I'm 23 and only had one girlfriend when I was 16. I don't have many friends either. But I do enjoy my solitude. I do enjoy writing. I don't mind spending time with people, but it's not something I do half as much as other people. When I was in college, I had a ton of friends on my floor, but I keep in touch sporadically. Asperger's syndrome? I've heard of it and I might be one of those kinds of people.

I feel lonely from time to time, but I get over it. Just take it in stride. Just accept where you are now, and I mean really accept it. Then strive to improve and don't feel that failure is the ultimate dealbreaker. Failure is an essential part of success. Just keep putting yourself out there and things will get better.

For me, I don't really have much of a drive to do that, but I could if I really wanted to. I've done it before and I could take it or leave it. But I only know this because I've tried to be the social one before. And I did have some good times, but I like my own company the best.

I'll have to look up that Asperger's Syndrome to get a good idea of the symptoms and see where you're coming from.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by Gregorz

So, when I started smoking weed, I loved it so much that it became my new focus. I researched it heavily (I didn't want to use something which would damage my body; turns out it's less harmful than alcohol or tobacco), learned to roll perfect joints, etc etc. Because weed had become my new main interest, self-improvement fell to the side. Whilst I wasn't actively reading new material, though, I was still working on myself, and in my second year of university I went back and started reading again. I made a lot of progress, and since then I have become a brand new person, much happier and wiser.

I know you also posted weed isn't your focus anymore, that's a good move. But don't kid yourself about it being less harmful. One joint can equal a pack of cigarettes in damage comparison. What you read about weed not being bad for your health is usually pro-weed sites that are kidding themselves. but this topic could hi-jack this thread, I'm sure.

I think other posters covered what I might say - i.e. put yourself in situations to meet people without thinking you are doing this new activity only to find a girl, but to be with people and do cool things. You sound like an interesting person and able to make connections with people, don't worry too much.

[smith1012]

Hey man, I read your post. And I think I am, you lol Everything you gone through had happened to me also. And im also 20.

My advice is ... you are already happy but that happiness is being distracted by your ego. In fact, your desire for girls and the loneliness you feel because of lack, is all ego-driven. Let me tell you this - the ego is all about fear and suffering. Hence you suffer when a girl rejects you, you suffer with the thought of loneliness, etc.

You need to understand one thing. That is you are the CREATOR of your reality. If you read a majority of steve's posts, he talks about this a whole lot. With that being said, saying that your lonely is complete bull****. Why? Because you're letting your ego take control over you and also remember this... you ARE NOT your ego.

Ever focused on the present moment? Ever focus on what you see, hear, feel at this vary moment? If you did, you were happy right? If you weren't, then you weren't in the moment, I gurantee it. So why were you happy? Because you ignored the ego. The ego lives on past and future moments. If you feel unhappy, it's a result of you focusing too much on the past 'n future.

I want you to do this. Whenever you get thoughts of "Oh! im so lonely. I will never get a girl" or whatever thoughts that put you down - I dare you to NOT react to those thoughts. DO NOT pay attention to those thoughts. Just look at the thoughts.

hth 'n feel free to ask questions if it didnt make sense.

[Gregorz]

I'm starting to realise why Steve wrote that post on RDD, it's hard to convey your true self, goals and intentions over the internet.

I like myself, and I was happy for a long time with 'going it solo'. The past few years I've focused on improving myself, not worrying about what anyone else thinks, and that's been greatly beneficial and a lot of fun. But I've decided that's not all I want anymore. I don't think wanting friends and a relationship is particularly ego-driven; I'm simply trying to bring more happy experiences into my life, to share what I love with others instead of keeping it all to myself. That's in the form of friendships as well as more intimate relationships.

Sure, if I gave up entirely, I'd stop feeling the frustration of 'failing'. As I mentioned already, I tried that for a few years, and was content. Content, but not truly happy. It's great being able to live without the validation of others, but being a hermit and letting nobody know that you exist isn't in alignment with love. I've never had much of a problem appreciating my own company; if anything, my difficulty is in learning to understand and appreciate others.

I can deal with the short-term frustration of losing, and rejection. What I don't want to deal with anymore is prolonged loneliness. I've already thoroughly explored that road and learned what I can from it, and I'm ready to move onto something else. As I realised earlier, I think my current lack of success is simply because I'm not 'playing the field' enough with my activities, I'm trying to pick and choose my friends and lovers a bit too much. Coincidentally that's something I've been telling myself a lot recently; that sometimes I should just disregard my plans and go with what seems to work. It's been a very handy thing to keep in mind.

Wolfgang: Here's a good topic for that debate. Watch the video I posted on page 1

[WhiteCrow]

Search no more! I will give you THE recipe for getting the girlfriend ASAP.

Get A Life.

It is really that simple. You need to live your life SO well, that you just exude happiness! Just have fun, do the things you love, do not take anything seriously.

We do have only like 70-80 years on this planet, so there is no need to worry or stress!!! Have a good time and the babes will flock around you!

- Join a gym, and get that body looking right.

- Get a great hobby!

- Party, socialize, get drunk occasionaly

- Tease girls! If they are wearing high heels, tease them about being short. If they are arrogant, request humbly if you might talk to the princess.

Life is there to test you, but not so much. Just go crazy! Love you man!

[jinkster]

i just wanted to jump in here and say i can relate <3
this is my first time on these forums and it's comforting to read about someone else going through something similar, so thank you for sharing.

i am able to identify long term needs and goals but find online games (with a social aspect especially) and weed make each moment "okay" which can distract from larger intentions.

i had to take an extreme and quit my battlefield2 team cold turkey to get over that obsession which was obviously detracting from my general goals.

i am working on moderation but it is difficult.