Is Pick Up Weird? Of Course Not You’re Just Too SCARED To Try It

[Murphy]

Originally Posted by seeker5

This kind of remark reminds me of something I've read frequently when I've come across PUA descriptions of what some guys do on their nights out. It's about how guys cut down other guys who are trying to enter their set, trying to sabotage them by finding the most sensitive thing about them and then using it against them. I've also read about how some guys use some sort of technique on women, to make the girls feel a lot less secure and confident about themselves and eventually because of that and other things, they'll end feeling more attracted toward the guy.

Where did you read this? If anyone in my crew did that we would give them a severe talking too. If they continued we would chuck them out.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

If you want to get your rocks off a lot, have fun with it. But it seems rather juvenile to denigrate others who make different choices, as if they're secretly envious or something. Please...

Maybe people just don't think the PUA lifestyle is all that special. Many who've slept around a lot have said it's not worth such a huge time investment, and they come out wanting other things. But those who are in the thick of it often need to draw others in to justify their lifestyle.

The opportunity cost of sleeping with lots of women can be pretty high. Some people pour a good chunk of their lives into it. But the long-term gains they retain from that pursuit, if any, have little to do with how many women they slept with. It's more about the fears they were able to overcome.

I think many people who get into PUA are sex addicts, borderline sex predators. They become like druggies trying to sell others on it so as to justify their ongoing addiction, even as real life is slowly passing them by. They think more sex will fulfill them, but it just leaves them feeling empty, frustrated, and angry.

I don’t think sex will fufill me. That’s stupid. I’m all ready fulfilled. Nothing external could do that.

Originally Posted by jaamkie

what I wonder is if either of you find it easy, or even possible, to sleep with intelligent emotionally-healthy women?

Well obviously. What would be the point of being in the game otherwise?
I’ve had a girlfriend for 8 months now. Her name is Pretzel. She’s cute and she's funny and she makes me smile a lot.

Three years ago I was a virgin and I kissed only two girls in my entire life. Then I found the game.

Now I have a girlfriend. Someone to have fun with, have crazy adventures with AND to have hot sex with.

I don’t know why everyone has a problem with that.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I'm happy with the lifestyle choices I've made thus far. I'm glad I built a successful business (two actually), wrote hundreds of articles, got a book published, made fascinating friends, had a family, moved to Vegas, went vegetarian then vegan then raw, ran a marathon, trained in martial arts, go into pro speaking, learned podcasting, bought two houses, etc. I'm glad I didn't sacrifice any of those things to become a top PUA with lots of sexual conquests.

Having a lot of money is hardly a 'deep' goal is it Steve? But it doesn't mean it isn't a goal worth pursuing all the same.

I think I made the right choice spending the last three years working to get a girlfriend, instead of working to buy two houses or run a marathon.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

I could use the same silly tactics as some of these PUA types and goad people into doing stuff to "build their courage". I could shame people into new lifestyle choices. I could chide people for being too cowardly to shoplift, for instance, which is something I did hundreds of times as a teenager. I could label PUAs as wimps and cowards for being too scared to risk prison time. Seriously... how brave can you be if you can't even break the law? You think it takes balls to approach a woman on the street and start a conversation? To get her into bed and have sex? Gimme a break! Even my daughter can overcome approach anxiety. If you want to build your courage, try taking a real risk for once. If the only thing you're risking is embarrassment, you can hardly wrap yourself in a cloak of courage. Play a game with more than penny stakes. Risk your livelihood. Risk your freedom. Risk your family's financial security. Risk your life.

The PUA community is filled with people who claim their marshmallow balls are made of steel. But most of them don't even have the balls to post in public forums with their real names... traceable to their real identities. If they had an ounce of courage, they'd post on public forums using their real names, not lame handles to hide their identities from their boss, friends, and of course their mommy.

See what I mean? I can use shame just as easily, and most PUAs are easy targets. But does it really help?

My name is John Murphy and I’m your friend on facebook Steve so you can see a picture of me if you want.

I know what I said will piss off a lot of people who aren’t going to change. And I’m making them feel bad about their life. That’s not a nice thing to do.

However this is a personal development forum. I hope by ranting hundreds of people maybe one will see the light. Maybe, just maybe one virgin guy out there will think maybe I could get a girlfriend if he put some more effort in. If he read a few books and did more socializing. And personally I think that would be awesome.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Murphy

Now I have a girlfriend. Someone to have fun with, have crazy adventures with AND to have hot sex with.

I don’t know why everyone has a problem with that.

Seriously? Dude, no one has a problem with that. I have the exact same thing. I've been with my current girlfriend since May 8th.

What people have a "problem" with is when some snarky know-it-all posts on a forum and asks immature questions like "how many women have you slept with" and says silly things like "I'm pleasing your wife in a back alley" and makes old boring "your mom" jokes.

Do you realize that you did all of those things? Read your previous posts, if you don't. You seem unconscious of your actions.

I think I made the right choice spending the last three years working to get a girlfriend.

Wait a minute. I thought you spent the last three years having sex with 18 girls?

I'm curious. Did rants like yours help you when you were a virgin? Did the "shock value" technique help you gain courage? I wonder how many people that kind of style works for.

[DerekH]

Originally Posted by seeker5

This kind of remark reminds me of something I've read frequently when I've come across PUA descriptions of what some guys do on their nights out. It's about how guys cut down other guys who are trying to enter their set, trying to sabotage them by finding the most sensitive thing about them and then using it against them. I've also read about how some guys use some sort of technique on women, to make the girls feel a lot less secure and confident about themselves and eventually because of that and other things, they'll end feeling more attracted toward the guy.

So, here you are, bringing up something from another thread where Rose declared something that makes her feel quite unattractive and she is unhappy about. You bring it up here in this thread as an offhand remark when she writes about how she doesn't like PUA in reply to this thread which is about what's to like and not like about PUA. I find this practice deplorable of trying to aim for someone's weakest known point whenever they say something you don't like. Mind you, Rose is too strong of a woman to let a remark like yours affect her, but I find this pratice still deplorable.

Maybe you didn't mean to do this, but that remark of yours reminded me of another reason I don't like generally like the PUA community.

You could look at her opinions as taking a cheap shot at my weak points but we won't talk about that.

Maybe some of you folks should re-read a recent article of Steves

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by DerekH

You could look at her opinions as taking a cheap shot at my weak points but we won't talk about that.

Actually, you could look at it like that and probably do. But the fact of the matter is this: she didn't quote or respond directly to you.

[Holistic Star]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

Actually, you could look at it like that and probably do. But the fact of the matter is this: she didn't quote or respond directly to you.

Exactly

If you read Rose's post, she was taking responsibility for her own feelings about PUAs.

The 'I' is in bold. She's aware it's her issue and something she needs to look at and deal with at some point.

It wasn't anything about you Derek. So no need to take it personally and be rude. The fact you went on the defensive about it says bucket loads more about you than it does about Rose.

[DerekH]

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by DerekH

I have issues with hairy 30 year olds who prejudge someone before meeting them.



Just sayin...

How would you know she's hairy? Is that because you know ALL women naturally have hair all over their body? Hmm.....I didn't think it took a rocket scientist to figure that out either, it only takes a guy who's fukced one or two of them.


And you say it as if it's a bad thing.........

And bud, you aint had sex yet if you've only stuck under 30.......jus sayin

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

The fact you went on the defensive about it says bucket loads more about you than it does about Rose.

Agreed. Classic unfair discussion ploy -- use someone's previously stated vulnerability, expressed in trust, against them as a weapon, with clear intention to wound. I know Rose to be someone who won't accept your stinky sneaker of a tactic.

But it doesn't much advance your presentation of PUA's as furthering "our new found values like, honesty, making people feel good, liberating people, offering value." There's some disconnect there, I think.

[MidasGirl]

Bravo bravo bravo! Steve, this post is an absolute turn on!!! Seriously. I can see how women must be turned on by you without you trying much!

Funny, but it's obvious to most here why the PUA's have a hard time connecting with women, therefore have to resort to those tactics, which by the way are based on the false premise that "the jerks get all the hot girls".

Guys like Steve, Daffy Duck, Johny and others seem to be able to express themselves strongly while still respecting women and other men. Being taught to act as a little jerk to get P****y has got to be the cheapest route invented to get to that end result!

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

If you want to get your rocks off a lot, have fun with it. But it seems rather juvenile to denigrate others who make different choices, as if they're secretly envious or something. Please...

Maybe pepole just don't think the PUA lifestyle is all that special. Many who've slept around a lot have said it's not worth such a huge time investment, and they come out wanting other things. But those who are in the thick of it often need to draw others in to justify their lifestyle.

The opportunity cost of sleeping with lots of women can be pretty high. Some people pour a good chunk of their lives into it. But the long-term gains they retain from that pursuit, if any, have little to do with how many women they slept with. It's more about the fears they were able to overcome.

I think many people who get into PUA are sex addicts, borderline sex predators. They become like druggies trying to sell others on it so as to justify their ongoing addiction, even as real life is slowly passing them by. They think more sex will fulfill them, but it just leaves them feeling empty, frustrated, and angry.

Would I rather have invested my time in sleeping with 100 women instead of doing other things instead? Not remotely. I'm happy with the lifestyle choices I've made thus far. I'm glad I built a successful business (two actually), wrote hundreds of articles, got a book published, made fascinating friends, had a family, moved to Vegas, went vegetarian then vegan then raw, ran a marathon, trained in martial arts, go into pro speaking, learned podcasting, bought two houses, etc. I'm glad I didn't sacrifice any of those things to become a top PUA with lots of sexual conquests.

I still enjoyed plenty of sex along the way, but I'm glad I didn't turn sex into the central focus of my life. I think I'd be much less happy if I did that.

Don't get me wrong. Sex is great. But so is a really good salad... especially one with olives and sundried tomatoes... when the tomatoes have that perfect balance of sweetness and tartness... soooo good! But I can enjoy food without ballooning myself to 300 lbs. Similarly, I can enjoy sex without becoming a sex addict.

I could use the same silly tactics as some of these PUA types and goad people into doing stuff to "build their courage". I could shame people into new lifestyle choices. I could chide people for being too cowardly to shoplift, for instance, which is something I did hundreds of times as a teenager. I could label PUAs as wimps and cowards for being too scared to risk prison time. Seriously... how brave can you be if you can't even break the law? You think it takes balls to approach a woman on the street and start a conversation? To get her into bed and have sex? Gimme a break! Even my daughter can overcome approach anxiety. If you want to build your courage, try taking a real risk for once. If the only thing you're risking is embarrassment, you can hardly wrap yourself in a cloak of courage. Play a game with more than penny stakes. Risk your livelihood. Risk your freedom. Risk your family's financial security. Risk your life.

The PUA community is filled with people who claim their marshmallow balls are made of steel. But most of them don't even have the balls to post in public forums with their real names... traceable to their real identities. If they had an ounce of courage, they'd post on public forums using their real names, not lame handles to hide their identities from their boss, friends, and of course their mommy.

See what I mean? I can use shame just as easily, and most PUAs are easy targets. But does it really help?

[Steve Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Murphy

Three years ago I was a virgin and I kissed only two girls in my entire life. Then I found the game.

Now I have a girlfriend. Someone to have fun with, have crazy adventures with AND to have hot sex with.

I don’t know why everyone has a problem with that.

That helps to see where you're coming from.

I can see why you'd try to tool people here, but you'll likely find that it's unnecessary in a place like this. On a PUA forum, fine -- I'm sure some guys will fall for it. But here it's more likely to paint you as insecure and needy, and some people will respond as if you're asking for help. That's why you're getting reactions like there's something wrong with you. Not sure if that's what you intended...

Notice that when I tooled you a little in response, you tooled right back. No surprise there... but not very useful in the long run.

You probably have some good how-to ideas to offer, so consider just offering them up as a way of helping people grow. Share how you got your girlfriend and the transformation you had to make on yourself to make that a reality.

[Murphy]

Originally Posted by Daffy Duck

asks immature questions like "how many women have you slept with"

Dude you implied that you had slept with loads of women and that it was easy. When I questioned you on it you won't say how many hot women you've slept with but imply its not that many. But you still claim that it's really easy to do. I just can't win with you.

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

That helps to see where you're coming from.

I can see why you'd try to tool people here, but you'll likely find that it's unnecessary in a place like this. On a PUA forum, fine -- I'm sure some guys will fall for it. But here it's more likely to paint you as insecure and needy, and some people will respond as if you're asking for help. That's why you're getting reactions like there's something wrong with you. Not sure if that's what you intended...

Notice that when I tooled you a little in response, you tooled right back. No surprise there... but not very useful in the long run.

You probably have some good how-to ideas to offer, so consider just offering them up as a way of helping people grow. Share how you got your girlfriend and the transformation you had to make on yourself to make that a reality.

Thanks Steve, I just want to hug you.
I know my original post was quite childish. Probably not the best route to go down but fun at the time.

Anyway I think I'll bow out now having said my piece. Love to everyone.
And check out my website for more info

seductionexplained.com - Introduction

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by DerekH

You could look at her opinions as taking a cheap shot at my weak points but we won't talk about that.

Nope, I didn't see where she was talking about you. She was talking about PUA. The fact you're a PUA is incidental and you self-select yourself to be a PUA.

If you feel that you being a PUA is a weakpoint, then something isn't right. Maybe you're not feeling completely congruent with being a PUA yourself, and you feel something is wrong with it.

There's a thread on this forum that talks about why businessmen are evil. I'm going to school myself to get a masters in business, so I identify myself with this label of being a businessman. However, I didn't take what this guy said personally and I didn't respond seeking to exploit that guy's worst known weakness to hit him simply because he finds people of my type to be evil and hugely damaging to the world.

[Daffy Duck]

Originally Posted by Murphy

Dude you implied that you had slept with loads of women and that it was easy.

No. I implied that sleeping with loads of women is easy. I did not mean to imply that I've actually done it. In fact, I think I've said otherwise multiple times.

It is easy. Eating fish is easy too. But I don't eat fish. And I've turned down the women who wanted a bit more of me physically. Most were acquaintances or friends who wanted a bit more. And I mentioned my friend who actually goes all the way with these type of girls without trying. Heck, sometimes the same girl has hit on both of us, but I let him just take her because I'm not into that crap.

Every girl I've been with I have found to be extremely attractive. But I've only been in long term relationships.

Some other easy things to do that I don't do:
1. Cocaine.
2. Alcoholism.
3. Punching myself in the face.
4. Smoking cigarettes.
And I'll stop there.

Anyway, Steve said it better than I did and you responded to him well. Steve responded with only a tiny bit of fire but I threw a bunch of explosives instead. I think I can learn from Steve about that.

Take care, Murphy. God bless!

[Holistic Star]

Originally Posted by Angela

Agreed. Classic unfair discussion ploy -- use someone's previously stated vulnerability, expressed in trust, against them as a weapon, with clear intention to wound. I know Rose to be someone who won't accept your stinky sneaker of a tactic.

Or.....

Maybe Derek was 'negging' Rose, coz secretly he fancies her.

Watch out Rose - he's after you!



!

[Plato]

It's ironic... most men get into PUA because they feel ostracized. Often they have been hurt a lot in their lives... rejected as children to the point where they believe something is wrong with them.

Then when they discuss their attempts to overcome this they are ostracized even further. By some people anyway.

For all of it's flaws, at least the PUA community is a safe place for men to address these issues without having to deal with hate and mockery.

[Holistic Star]

Originally Posted by Plato

For all of it's flaws, at least the PUA community is a safe place for men to address these issues without having to deal with hate and mockery.

Then I wish the PUA's would stick to their PUA communities and leave us to discuss personal development in its entirety, rather than the tiny part of it tha is about scoring hot chicks.
If PUA's want support and not to be mocked, then perhaps they shouldn't swagger in, all attitude about how cool they are. Like earlier posters on this board have said, getting a shag really isn't that difficult and those that can talk to the opposite sex without wetting themselves are not 'gods amongst men' but normal!

This board used to be a safe place where people supported each other and helped each other learn and grow. Since the influx of PUA's flashing their e-dicks about the tone has lowered considerably and things that people shared in trust are used against them.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

Like earlier posters on this board have said, getting a shag really isn't that difficult and those that can talk to the opposite sex without wetting themselves are not 'gods amongst men' but normal!

I agree. For most people it's something that happens naturally.

Can you imagine what it's like to be rejected no matter how hard you tried?

If you were in that situation wouldn't you start to question why this is the case? Start to consider alternative approaches? Maybe even think about the mechanics of what makes somebody attracted to another person? That's what PUA is at it's heart. Trying to figure out what is going on, and then using that knowledge to improve the situation.

I also agree that this forum is not the place to discuss it! Certainly, trying to get other people to try PUA seems a pointless endeavour. If somebody wants to explore it they will.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by DerekH

I have issues with hairy 30 year olds who prejudge someone before meeting them.

Well Derek, I wish you lots of fun in accepting responsibility for and working through your issues with old, judgmental wookies.

Originally Posted by DerekH

You could look at her opinions as taking a cheap shot at my weak points but we won't talk about that.

Why won't we talk about that? Looks like this is the meat of the matter. Let's talk about it.

I'm sincerely sorry that you felt attacked Derek. My post wasn't meant as an attack. Neither against PUAs in general, nor against you in particular.

I said I can't stand PUAs, I don't see how this would be a cheap shot at your weak points. I know nothing about your weak points in the first place. Or is being a PUA in itself a weak point? In that case, you're having a problem, but not with me.

As I see it, in my post I was simply admitting a weakness of mine: a strong, negative, emotional reaction to PUAs, that I don't understand, can't control and don't know how to deal with. This is not a judgment about you or anybody else, it's a problem that I have. It has nothing to do with you.

But if you feel attacked that easily, then that's a problem that you have, and that I don't feel responsible for. Maybe this is a good opportunity for you to address this issue?

I believe that nothing can hurt us if we don't resonate with it on some level. If you feel offended by my post, then it's probably because my post triggered some negative judgment that you have about yourself. That's worth examining.

If you'd like, we can talk about it via PM. Maybe talking about it would help you to not feel attacked? Maybe I could get over my PUA allergy? Let's work together, isn't that what we are here for?

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

Maybe Derek was 'negging' Rose, coz secretly he fancies her.

Watch out Rose - he's after you!

Maybe I was negging Derek?? Maybe I said I can't stand PUAs because secretly I was hoping he would immediately try to pick me up just to prove me wrong??

And now that he's all offended, I offer him to "talk" about it via private messages... *flutters her eyelashes*

Sorry, just kidding of course.

[Holistic Star]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Maybe I was negging Derek?? Maybe I said I can't stand PUAs because secretly I was hoping he would immediately try to pick me up just to prove me wrong??

And now that he's all offended, I offer him to "talk" about it via private messages... *flutters her eyelashes*

Sorry, just kidding of course.

ooh you minx Rose

[seeker5]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

And now that he's all offended, I offer him to "talk" about it via private messages... *flutters her eyelashes*

Reminds me of my point about one technique of how some guys offend the girl so then the girl then wants to get picked up by him!

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Plato

It's ironic... most men get into PUA because they feel ostracized. Often they have been hurt a lot in their lives... rejected as children to the point where they believe something is wrong with them.

Then when they discuss their attempts to overcome this they are ostracized even further. By some people anyway.

For all of it's flaws, at least the PUA community is a safe place for men to address these issues without having to deal with hate and mockery.

So it is true then-the general feeling by PUA outsiders that these PUA trainers are basically exploiting low self esteem guys? I mean, how hard is it to teach a person that is already filled with an obvious loathing for women, and blames them for all his problems, that what he needs to do is to become a jerk toward them? If they were the real men they claim to be, try teaching these boys to actually learn to raise their consciousness level, which would automatically attract women to them like a magnet. But then again, that takes too much work don't it?

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Plato

It's ironic... most men get into PUA because they feel ostracized. Often they have been hurt a lot in their lives... rejected as children to the point where they believe something is wrong with them.

Then when they discuss their attempts to overcome this they are ostracized even further. By some people anyway.

For all of it's flaws, at least the PUA community is a safe place for men to address these issues without having to deal with hate and mockery.

You know Plato, I can see that. The pain some of them are having, their difficulties, and feelings of inadequacy or other negative feelings. I can feel it and I'm sorry for them.

I have nothing against working on our social skills, addressing our emotional issues and regaining self-confidence. That's something I have worked on very much myself and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm ready to help anybody do it.

What I dislike simply is the way they're doing it.

We reap what we sow. If they want to feel safe, respected and loved, then give others safety, respect and love in the first place.

Have you ever thought about how a woman feels when such a guy tries to pick her up? Do you think this really feels a lot like safety, respect and love?

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Maybe I could get over my PUA allergy?

I don't think there's a cure, Rose.

Knowing that somebody is using learned techniques to "get you" is totally weird. We generally want to believe that somebody is authentic i.e. they are who they seem to be.

However, most PUA approaches generally assume that who we are is a combination of how we behave, look and think. All of those things can be changed... In a sense we can become new people.

A PUA is trying to stop being an unattractive person and become an attractive person. In order to do this they have to stop being themselves and start learning to be somebody new. During that process of change it isn't really possible to be congruent.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Plato

A PUA is trying to stop being an unattractive person and become an attractive person. In order to do this they have to stop being themselves and start learning to be somebody new. During that process of change it isn't really possible to be congruent.

That's an interesting way to look at it, Plato! The old, one foot on the brake and the other on the gas approach. Until a guy is willing to completely let go of his unconscious commitment to being repulsive*, his conscious desire doesn't stand a chance. It's hard -- it's heart-wrenching sometimes that the very thing a person wants to avoid in life is often exactly what he's vividly creating for himself and for others.

*I mean "repulsive" in the sense of his unconscious beliefs causing aversion or driving people away, not that the man is inherently monstrous or disgusting.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

So it is true then-the general feeling by PUA outsiders that these PUA trainers are basically exploiting low self esteem guys? I mean, how hard is it to teach a person that is already filled with an obvious loathing for women, and blames them for all his problems, that what he needs to do is to become a jerk toward them? If they were the real men they claim to be, try teaching these boys to actually learn to raise their consciousness level, which would automatically attract women to them like a magnet. But then again, that takes too much work don't it?

Erm... maybe it is exploitation? I don't know. It depends on your perspective.

To say PUA's loathe women isn't the full picure. PUA's are generally coming from a fear based perspective. Loving connections are incompatible with fear.

As crazy as it sounds, the best way to help a PUA is to show them love... it dissolves the pain, fear and intimidation. You have to be careful with that though. Darkworkers may take your love as a sign that you can be exploited. Either that or they won't think you are sincere. Tis difficult!

[MidasGirl]

Originally Posted by Plato

As crazy as it sounds, the best way to help a PUA is to show them love... it dissolves the pain, fear and intimidation. You have to be careful with that though. Darkworkers may take your love as a sign that you can be exploited. Either that or they won't think you are sincere. Tis difficult!

I couldn't agree more! It's also possible these PUA's have grown up with extremely overbearing women around them, and therefore have learned to fear women instead of love them. So it is unfortunately a vicious cycle, nobody's gonna give them love unless they learn to give love themselves. You get what you give.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Angela

That's an interesting way to look at it, Plato! The old, one foot on the brake and the other on the gas approach. Until a guy is willing to completely let go of his unconscious commitment to being repulsive*, his conscious desire doesn't stand a chance. It's hard -- it's heart-wrenching sometimes that the very thing a person wants to avoid in life is often exactly what he's vividly creating for himself and for others.

*I mean "repulsive" in the sense of his unconscious beliefs causing aversion or driving people away, not that the man is inherently monstrous or disgusting.

Thankyou for your semi-indirect advice! I do appreciate it, and I feel you're right.

Originally Posted by MidasGirl

I couldn't agree more! It's also possible these PUA's have grown up with extremely overbearing women around them, and therefore have learned to fear women instead of love them. So it is unfortunately a vicious cycle, nobody's gonna give them love unless they learn to give love themselves. You get what you give.

Hah, you'd be surprised. Sweet, lovely girls can hurt more than any others...

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Plato

Thankyou for your semi-indirect advice! ..

Ha! I didn't realize I was giving advice. I thought I was feeling compassion under your guidance.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Angela

Ha! I didn't realize I was giving advice. I thought I was feeling compassion under your guidance.

Oh. Well either way works! Sometimes I do things I know will piss people off for no conscious reason (especially on this forum ), so it just happened to be very well geared to me.