How do you get asked out on a date/obtain a boyfriend?

[George Eliot]

I've seen many threads giving advice to men about how to overcome shyness/lack of confidence around women and start approaching and dating them, but what if you are a woman and haven't been on any dates yet or had a boyfriend?

Would the advice be the same? In other words, should I start asking guys out, or is there something else I'm missing? I've never been asked out before and no one seems to have had a crush on me yet (that I know of) so I was just wondering what to do?

I saw someone ask some "dating specialists" on tv a similar question - their response was that women don't have that problem i.e. they are always approached by men and don't have to worry about finding potential dates when they want. Obviously, this is not the case for me, so what gives?

If anyone has any insight (without knowing me lol) that would be great!

BTW, I'm 25.

[shesaboutspirit]

Many of us single folk have had success with the dating web sites, such as Match.com. I personally even know of many who've found the one, and married him. My current guy is a man that I met there.

The best part is that you can get to know each other a bit before meeting. I insist on photo's, since of course physical attraction is a big part of what draws us.

It can be a bit strange at first, but hang in there if you decide to try it...you will get back what you put into it...

Good luck!

Pam

[George Eliot]

Originally Posted by shesaboutspirit

Many of us single folk have had success with the dating web sites, such as Match.com. I personally even know of many who've found the one, and married him. My current guy is a man that I met there.

The best part is that you can get to know each other a bit before meeting. I insist on photo's, since of course physical attraction is a big part of what draws us.

It can be a bit strange at first, but hang in there if you decide to try it...you will get back what you put into it...

Good luck!

Pam

Thanks for the advice Pam.

I've never tried Internet dating - I guess I've always been wary of online dating even though it's now very common and people from all walks of life use it to connect to others and search for a relationship. Deep down though, I'm kind of nervous about meeting up with someone from a dating site, but perhaps I'll give it a try.

[Michael Chui]

I think that some sites (like Craigslist) have ones where guys post personals and you can respond to them. That way, you don't have to post things about yourself. A good friend of mine met his girlfriend that way. (And she is an amazing person... I can never fault the guy for his taste in people.)

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by George Eliot

If anyone has any insight (without knowing me lol) that would be great!

BTW, I'm 25.

Go to places where men feel comfortable approaching women, and join classes where there might be some guys. If you go to a pub after dinner to sing kareoke with your friends, and you're pretty, it's guaranteed guys will talk to you. Like mentioned, dating sites are great too.

Also, you have to follow the unwritten rules of social interactions. Even though the man opens to the woman, it is often the woman who initiates the interaction. If you see a guy who's attractive, lock eyes with him then look away. Then look back again. Give him an inviting smile. Men will come up to you to talk.

[George Eliot]

Originally Posted by Scipio

Go to places where men feel comfortable approaching women, and join classes where there might be some guys. If you go to a pub after dinner to sing kareoke with your friends, and you're pretty, it's guaranteed guys will talk to you. Like mentioned, dating sites are great too.

Also, you have to follow the unwritten rules of social interactions. Even though the man opens to the woman, it is often the woman who initiates the interaction. If you see a guy who's attractive, lock eyes with him then look away. Then look back again. Give him an inviting smile. Men will come up to you to talk.

I don't really feel comfortable in bars and getting up in front of people to sing karaoke sounds worse than death to me. Also, my friends aren't exactly bar types either. We tend to be on the quieter, nerdier side of the social spectrum, and spend most of our free time reading and watching movies at home together. Also, I'm not really pretty so that won't help me out at all.

But LOL I think I know my problem now.

I seem to have trouble initiating social interaction. I always wait for someone else to almost "force" me to interact socially. I find it utterly painful to initiate it myself. I even feel some anxiety typing this message and visualizing the possible interaction.

This is what would go through my head if I saw someone attractive:

1. "That guy's kind of cute."

2. "What are you thinking? There's no way in a million years anyone would find you attractive or be able to reciprocate your feelings. Don't even try - you'll just make a fool of yourself."

3. Then there's some general ramblings having to do with the idea that I'll get mocked/berated/insulted if I even dare to think I could ever be good enough for that person i.e. they'll laugh in my face.

4. "I don't want to impose on this person. They would find it annoying if I looked at them and just want to be left alone."

Then there's simply the fact that I tend to be fearful of taking in my surroundings and usually stick to myself when I'm out in public. I don't look around me at all/don't look in people's faces or eyes and just do what I have to do without really noticing the people around me.

I also feel, from past experiences, that I don't really have the things that men want or find attractive, so I figure, that's ok, I don't care - I don't need you. Perhaps as a result of that internal thought process, I have a wall up because I don't even try to interact socially.

I also think I may be bad at picking up on social signals from other people because I don't have a lot of experience with social interaction. Maybe I miss things sometimes or don't know what I'm supposed to do to indicate mutual interest?

And keep in mind, all these thoughts are automatic and seem to inform my behaviour in the blink of an eye, even though when I take the time to analyze my thought process it seems rather complex.

For me, joining a class or a club may be better. I need to have the focus on more than one person, not just me, at least initially, and have the purpose of meeting people be for something other than dating. Also, a club may give me something to talk about in a conversation, because usually I have trouble thinking of things to say.

(P.S. If you haven't already noticed, I'm very shy - I thought guys liked shy girls???)

[mattsonn]

But before you worry too much about your personality, let's focus on your looks for a moment. Do you wear glasses? Do you only wear drab and bulky clothes just because they feel "comfortable"? Does your hair just hang down all the time?

And speaking of visualization, I can completely feel your response to these posts (I'm not an ENFJ for nothing). All I can say is that you just have to fight through it if this is what you really want to do.

[Scipio]

Originally Posted by George Eliot

(P.S. If you haven't already noticed, I'm very shy - I thought guys liked shy girls???)

Yes, I like shy girls, but sometimes shys set off the wrong singles. They seem snobby or uninterested to other people. You should pick up the book Goodbye to Shy by Leil Lowndes; it goes over fixing alot of the scary thoughts you mentioned you have before meeting a new person.

And being intelligent is an asset of yours too. Enroll in a for-credit, college course that lasts a whole semester, in something of your choice. You get put into groups with people for assignments and slowly meet them over time, and it's a chance to display your smarts.

Look, I think you have to ask yourself whether you want to get this "meeting great guys" thing handled, rather than have the mood "I'm not a bar person." If you're the type that sits back and reads books, and never goes out (which is okay) then you're not going to see any guys. Not being around people means no matter what qualities you may have, you won't get asked out.

So put yourself out there, it's hard at first. Trust me, I'm a recovering introvert, yet I still remained an intellectual and philosophy geek. I'm still ripping through a few books per week and still take on more than a full courseload at school. You don't change yourself when you become more social; you don't have to give up the things you like. What you really change is the way you display and communicate yourself.

[tc33]

Aside from what has already been mentioned, I'd like to add one thing that hasn't been emphasized too much, and I'm not going to sugar-coat this reality at all: (almost) ALL MEN WANT A GOOD LOOKING WOMAN.

From what I read, men place much more emphasis on physical appearance than women do. From your perspective, improving your physical appearance should be your #1 concern IF you simply want guys to hit on you while you're out and about, living your daily life.

Similarly, if you're going to go the internet personals route, physical appearance should still be a top priority. You absolutely don't want your internet date being disappointed when you send him a picture or meet him in person.

Moreover, research has shown that most relationships last when each partner is within 1 point up or down on the 10 point scale. For example, if you're a 7, look for a guy that's a 6, 7, or 8. Hey -- I don't make up the empirical research; don't shoot the messenger. Ask your friends to give you a no-BS assessment of your appearance. If you feel awkward with this or question their objectivity, PM me and I'll give you an honest assessment.

Approaching guys: most guys would be absolutely, totally cool with you walking up to them and starting a conversation. You mentioned you feel awkward and don't know what to say. As another recovering introvert, I understand your dilemma. Find something, ANYTHING about the existing contextual environment to talk about. Most people LOVE talking about themselves, so there's always the "where are you from, what are you doing here, what do you think about that X over there..." and continue branching off of interesting responses to these questions.
Example-
You: Hi Mr Hottie, my name is George Eliot. What are you doing here?
Mr Hottie: Well, I just came here to pick up my grandmother a birthday gift.
You: Really? That's so sweet of you (compliments are good). How old is your grandmother?
You (Alternative):Comment about his generousity for buying gifts, his presence at that particular store, the things he is looking at, etc.
Mr Hottie: Blah blah blah
You: That is so interesting! Tell me more about blah blah blah
Mr Hottie: Blah blah blah
You: Well, I have to go. You're a real stud muffin. (don't say that ) How about we go out sometime? My number is ###-####
Mr Hottie: Well, I have this growth on my...well, nevermind. Sure!
You: Sounds great! Bye!

BAM! You're done. Keep it short and sweet. Then just wait for his call a couple of days later -- his job as the man is to make that call. If you call him, he'll think you're slutty and probably lose respect for you and expect some action on the first date. But that might be your thing too

A great book I'd recommend is Kevin Hogan's Irresistable Attraction. It covers a lot of this stuff as well.

Remember this: Hot, intelligent, single women are hard to find. Be hot, intelligent, and single, and you'll be hooked up in no time.

Hope that helps

- Tom

[Angela]

Tom, you make dating fun!

[shesaboutspirit]

Great post Tom and very informative.

The good thing about internet dating is that you put a realistic photo of yourself on there, up front. No false advertising that you'll have to worry about living up to. That way, they see you there...and if they want to write, they do. Then you get to respond. Or you can send them a wink...and if they don't respond, you have your little cry (okay, maybe that's just me), and move on.

I still have several good friends that I met this way, dated and decided to only be friends with due to some compatibility thing or other...but now I've got some really nice guy friends. And the man I'm seeing now, whom I met on Match, is just dreamy. I've got my fingers crossed for this one. We are going very slowly...and it's nice.

I agree that looks are important, but it's also relative right? In the eyes of the beholder. Plus, looks only open a door...then you have to show up with a personality as well.

This is a great thread...thanks for starting it.

Oh, ps about Craig's list. It's free...and sometimes you get what you pay for... I tried it once, and got a huge response...not many photo's though...and that's important. It just felt a little more risky than Match.

[George Eliot]

Originally Posted by Scipio

Yes, I like shy girls, but sometimes shys set off the wrong singles. They seem snobby or uninterested to other people. You should pick up the book Goodbye to Shy by Leil Lowndes; it goes over fixing alot of the scary thoughts you mentioned you have before meeting a new person.

You're right, this is something I have recently become aware of. When I was younger and had my automatic shy/fear reactions, I probably pushed others away a lot without even realizing it. Sometimes now, even though my fear is often still paralyzing, I am one step further in that I notice others' reactions and have noticed that sometimes extreme shyness comes across as snobby or arrogant, even though the root feelings associated with "social phobia" are actually quite the opposite. It's never my intention to portray myself in such a manner, and quite painful, upon reflection, to realize that is exactly how I appear to those around me.

Originally Posted by Scipio

And being intelligent is an asset of yours too. Enroll in a for-credit, college course that lasts a whole semester, in something of your choice. You get put into groups with people for assignments and slowly meet them over time, and it's a chance to display your smarts.

This may work, although I managed to survive a full four years of University at the undergraduate level without making any social strides, so to speak. I am quite adept at what I like to call, "avoidance management." At the same time, the University of Toronto isn't exactly known for small classes or interactive classroom environments. Perhaps a smaller college-type course would be more helpful.

Originally Posted by Scipio

Look, I think you have to ask yourself whether you want to get this "meeting great guys" thing handled, rather than have the mood "I'm not a bar person." If you're the type that sits back and reads books, and never goes out (which is okay) then you're not going to see any guys. Not being around people means no matter what qualities you may have, you won't get asked out.

Agreed. If I never go out the probablility of meeting someone is 0%, although specifically I still think I'd be better off trying something else rather than a bar, especially because I don't drink. I'm not really interested in serial dating (I think that's what some people call it). I would rather meet that one special someone and form a bond for life. That's the type of person I am.

Originally Posted by Scipio

So put yourself out there, it's hard at first. Trust me, I'm a recovering introvert, yet I still remained an intellectual and philosophy geek. I'm still ripping through a few books per week and still take on more than a full courseload at school. You don't change yourself when you become more social; you don't have to give up the things you like. What you really change is the way you display and communicate yourself.

The funny thing is, I'm not only shy, but I'm also an introvert, which for me means the motivation to go out and meet people is rather low because I don't mind being alone and actually find social interaction to be draining and unrewarding. I know some shy people who motivate themselves to overcome shyness because they can't stand to be alone, so sometimes finding the right motivation to propel myself into uncomfortable situations can be difficult (especially because I'm so stubborn). And, continuing to behave in the way I have for the past 25 years of my life is so comfortable it's almost something I feel sad to break away from.

You're very right about one thing in particular: I think a part of me worries about changing who I am - fundamentally - as a person. In other words, being shy and introverted is so ingrained in my behaviour system that I'm almost afraid to shed the cloak and face the biting elements, without that familiar protection I've come to rely on. It's such a part of me I don't really want to let go, even if it has served me ill over the years.

I do see a glimpse of the truth though - I can become more sociable over time if I work at it, and still be a book geek and all the rest of it. Although I am often wracked with self-doubt about myself, at the core, I do like who I am and am proud of being "nerdy" and a little quieter than others. Everyone is different, and just because I learn to interact with others better, it doesn't mean I will lose other parts of my personality that I hold dear.

[mattsonn]

Originally Posted by tc33

From your perspective, improving your physical appearance should be your #1 concern IF you simply want guys to hit on you while you're out and about, living your daily life.

Actually, being nice should be #1....

[Dimitry]

Dating is definately not the easiest thing on earth unless you work on it. I face a similar issue from a guy's perspective.

Usually if I'm already introduced to the girl, at that point things become easier. That or if I know something about her and she at least knows of me. Otherwise just walking up to random people, I've only done it twice in high school with no success. My string of failures in the past really affected me coming up to people, striking up a conversation and getting their number if it happens to be a girl and I'm interested.

[DiscoDan]

I'm not really interested in serial dating (I think that's what some people call it). I would rather meet that one special someone and form a bond for life. That's the type of person I am.

Think about your situation logically for a second: if you don't go out there and "serial date," how many guys do you think you'll meet?

A handful, if you're lucky.

Now if you DO go out and date, how many guys will you meet? Many many MANY more than just a handful.

Now compare the two situations - in which case would you have a higher probability of finding someone with whom you want to form a life-long bond?

I understand it's hard to put yourself out there when you're shy (trust me, I know - I'm probably the quietest person you'd ever meet. Hell, my nickname in high school used to be "That Kid Who Never Talks"). But you gotta do it, you gotta get out there. Otherwise you're cheating yourself out of opportunity.

Anyway, I'll give you some tips to follow from a guy's perspective, but, remember, my advice is useless if you don't at least try it out.

1) Accept that you need to improve your social skills: the only way to improve your current situation is to accept it. Accept your shyness, but also accept that fact that, if you were to become less shy, your life would improve. How do you decrease shyness? Simple: practice. Start with something small, like making eye contact and smiling at one person every day. Some people may respond negatively or blow you off, but these people aren't worth your time anyway, and you still accomplished what you set out to do (to just give them a smile), so feel proud of your accomplishment. Once that doesn't scare you anymore, move onto other things, like starting a conversation with someone you don't know. After a while, you'll notice your fear of social situations will simply disappear.

2) Devote more time to your physical appearance than you currently do. Listen, regardless of what anyone tells you, you are attractive. It's just that no one can see it yet. You don't even have to spend that much time on this - maybe thirty extra minutes a week. For example, try a new hairstyle one week, a trendy new shirt another week, maybe use make-up in a different style. Whatever it is, try it out for a little while and, if you like it and think it suits you, keep it. Also, try to make it to the gym about once a week. You don't have to do much: maybe fifteen minutes on a treadmill, ten minutes on light weight training, every week, that's it. You won't see results immediately, but over time (maybe six months), it will make a big difference. Remember, with a little bit of effort (but on a consistent basis!), anyone can be a "10"

3) With the first two tips, you'll probably start to get more attention from guys. But here's one last thing that'll help you out big time - a good sense of humor. There's nothing like meeting an attractive, friendly girl who is also downright hilarious. There are many books on this subject, but I personally recommend just paying attention to the people around you. Look for people who consistently make other people laugh in conversation, and then try to emulate them. Of course, simply emulating their behavior won't work perfectly for you, but it will give you a feel for what style of humor best suits you.

Anyway, that's it! Simple, isn't it? Just follow these three steps, and I guarantee you'll find that perfect guy in no time. And be sure to let us know when that happens!

[Michael Chui]

Forget serial dating. The term made me think of speed dating. The idea is a bunch of men and women gather together, they're paired up for a short time, and you get a chance to pitch yourself to the other person. I've no first or second hand experience with this, but stuff like this happens in most big cities. I also remember hearing about a thing called Table for Six on the classical radio station back in San Francisco... I believe that's where you and five other people get put together for dinner.

All of these are organized by third parties, which makes the risk a lot less. (Contrast with Internet-based stuff, where it's slightly more likely to find someone with similar interests, but also more likely they're insincere in some way.)

Also note that these are designed for people who don't have other opportunities to hang out in singles bars, etc.

[George Eliot]

Originally Posted by Dimitry

Dating is definately not the easiest thing on earth unless you work on it. I face a similar issue from a guy's perspective.

Usually if I'm already introduced to the girl, at that point things become easier. That or if I know something about her and she at least knows of me. Otherwise just walking up to random people, I've only done it twice in high school with no success. My string of failures in the past really affected me coming up to people, striking up a conversation and getting their number if it happens to be a girl and I'm interested.

I can relate. I think I just need to get out more and become involved in activities that actually involve people. You can't meet people if you're never around them.

Most people seem to meet their significant other "by chance" in some sort of social situation. Some people meet in University classes, others in a music group or club, through friends, etc. I bet if someone decided to compile statistics on the subject, this is how most people start relationships - including friendships.

[Holistic Star]

Hi George Elliot,

Yes you do have to get out and meet people. But you also have to be aware of the signals you are giving off about your interest in people when you do meet them. I notice in your post you said you don't make eye contact with anyone, and I think this is really crucial.

I don't have looks that stand out in a crowd, but I can make a man I've never met before approach me from across a room, just by giving him the right eye contact signals. (I have stopped doing this since i got married). Eye contact, is one of the keys of flirting. Short shy glances, then a quick flash to see if he is interested with a shy smile especially if you look up at a man through your eyelashes. I'm not saying it works every time, but it nearly always does.
It's not that you don't have what it takes to interest men, it's that you are not letting them know you are interested. They read the lack of eye contact as rejection and don't bother trying.

I also don't think it is true that all men want a good looking woman just walk down your high street and see if all the couples are good looking, I'll bet they are not. Ok looks might be the initial interest, but there has to be something more than looks to stustain a relationship.

Your self talk really upset me (although it was helpful that you were honest about your thoughts). You wouldn't speak to a friend like that would you and yet you are so unkind to yourself. When you find those thoughts fliting through your brain, consciously replace them with a good affirmation. e.g. "I am a nice person, who is worth getting to know." or something that enables you to start a conversation with someone you are interested in.

Now this might sound strange, but if you want to feel sexy, wear some really sexy knickers. I know no-one can see them, but wearing sexy undercrackers somehow makes you feel different about yourself and you move and talk in an entirely different way which is appealing to men. I've no idea why it works, but try it!

[George Eliot]

Originally Posted by DiscoDan

Think about your situation logically for a second: if you don't go out there and "serial date," how many guys do you think you'll meet?

A handful, if you're lucky.

Now if you DO go out and date, how many guys will you meet? Many many MANY more than just a handful.

Now compare the two situations - in which case would you have a higher probability of finding someone with whom you want to form a life-long bond?

Yes, I know what you mean. I think I should have phrased what I said differently. I'm not looking to garner attention from random people on the street - that's what I was trying to say by mentioning "serial dating." I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't want to attract the wrong type of attention - instead, I'm looking for "quality prospects." And I'm not just looking to go on lots of dates for fun. The only reason to go on several dates would be to try and find the right person for me. I do agree that dating more people - or at least coming into contact with a greater amount of people - increases your chances of meeting a potential spouse.

Originally Posted by DiscoDan

I understand it's hard to put yourself out there when you're shy (trust me, I know - I'm probably the quietest person you'd ever meet. Hell, my nickname in high school used to be "That Kid Who Never Talks"). But you gotta do it, you gotta get out there. Otherwise you're cheating yourself out of opportunity.

LOL - sounds like what people used to say to me: "How come you never talk?" "Why are you so quiet?"

Originally Posted by DiscoDan

Also, try to make it to the gym about once a week. You don't have to do much: maybe fifteen minutes on a treadmill, ten minutes on light weight training, every week, that's it. You won't see results immediately, but over time (maybe six months), it will make a big difference. Remember, with a little bit of effort (but on a consistent basis!), anyone can be a "10"

LOL - I never said I'm overweight. I already spend an hour a day at the gym, 6 days per week. But I do this to be healthy, not for aesthetic reasons. Besides, who says curves are a bad thing? The standard of late is to be ridiculously thin - but is this healthy? No. (Unless you're naturally very slender, of course). Women are built to put on fat and everyone has a different body type. Anyways, just wanted to clarify that point.

[George Eliot]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

Hi George Elliot,

Yes you do have to get out and meet people. But you also have to be aware of the signals you are giving off about your interest in people when you do meet them. I notice in your post you said you don't make eye contact with anyone, and I think this is really crucial.

I don't have looks that stand out in a crowd, but I can make a man I've never met before approach me from across a room, just by giving him the right eye contact signals. (I have stopped doing this since i got married). Eye contact, is one of the keys of flirting. Short shy glances, then a quick flash to see if he is interested with a shy smile especially if you look up at a man through your eyelashes. I'm not saying it works every time, but it nearly always does.
It's not that you don't have what it takes to interest men, it's that you are not letting them know you are interested. They read the lack of eye contact as rejection and don't bother trying.

I also don't think it is true that all men want a good looking woman just walk down your high street and see if all the couples are good looking, I'll bet they are not. Ok looks might be the initial interest, but there has to be something more than looks to stustain a relationship.

Your self talk really upset me (although it was helpful that you were honest about your thoughts). You wouldn't speak to a friend like that would you and yet you are so unkind to yourself. When you find those thoughts fliting through your brain, consciously replace them with a good affirmation. e.g. "I am a nice person, who is worth getting to know." or something that enables you to start a conversation with someone you are interested in.

Now this might sound strange, but if you want to feel sexy, wear some really sexy knickers. I know no-one can see them, but wearing sexy undercrackers somehow makes you feel different about yourself and you move and talk in an entirely different way which is appealing to men. I've no idea why it works, but try it!

Thanks Holistic Star,

Your post made me feel a little better. As you've noticed, my issues run deep, and it doesn't really have to do with outward appearance, but how I feel about myself.

I tried to communicate my internal thought process in that post to be honest and show what really goes through my mind, because that's the best way to receive good advice from others - if they know what my point of view on the whole situation is.

Eye contact seems so simple, and yet I find it the greatest hurdle. It makes me feel so vulnerable and I don't like it.

Also, flirting is not fun for me. I'm really in admiration of people who can navigate society with such intelligence, as my skills in this area are rather lacking.

It's so frustrating! I feel like I can do anything in the world (such as learn a new language, tackle a physics course, teach myself piano, etc.) but I am so weak socially. I know everyone has something that is a challenge in this world and something you have to work on, but my inability to navigate the social structure just gets me down a lot, and I feel like giving up. Sometimes I think I could climb Mount Everest before I could strike up a conversation with a stranger.

But I will give some of your suggestions a try.

[Flame]

Originally Posted by DiscoDan

2) Devote more time to your physical appearance than you currently do. Listen, regardless of what anyone tells you, you are attractive. It's just that no one can see it yet. You don't even have to spend that much time on this - maybe thirty extra minutes a week. For example, try a new hairstyle one week, a trendy new shirt another week, maybe use make-up in a different style. Whatever it is, try it out for a little while and, if you like it and think it suits you, keep it. Also, try to make it to the gym about once a week. You don't have to do much: maybe fifteen minutes on a treadmill, ten minutes on light weight training, every week, that's it. You won't see results immediately, but over time (maybe six months), it will make a big difference. Remember, with a little bit of effort (but on a consistent basis!), anyone can be a "10"

@ DiscoDan, your entire post was insightful. This point was particularly beautiful. Any woman or man would like to feel they have the potential to be a "10," not just in looks, but intelligence, humor, etc. So often people say to a girl or guy, "you're a 7," work hard and you "can pass" as an "8." Your perspective is refreshing, and no doubt your relationships are better for it.

@ HolitsicStar -- great advice. Love the "undercrackers!"

[Michael Chui]

I got this preternatural feeling that told me to say that 1) I like your handle and 2) have you read Portrait of a Lady?

I haven't read it, so I have no idea why I'm suggesting it. But I've always been able to rely on my intuition.

Originally Posted by George Eliot

Most people seem to meet their significant other "by chance" in some sort of social situation. Some people meet in University classes, others in a music group or club, through friends, etc. I bet if someone decided to compile statistics on the subject, this is how most people start relationships - including friendships.

Of course that's correct. Good relationships progress like so: encounter, interest, discovery, comprehension, compassion. That's unidirectional. Reciprocation happens at any point along this, and is of course necessary.

Regular activities strongly facilitate Encounter, as do mutual friends encouraging it. Interest is facilitated by, as others say, attraction factors. This does not have to be physical, but if you want the relationship to have a physical component, then clearly it's necessary.

To restate that point: for every component of a relationship that you want, then you need a level of interest in that component. If you want a sparring partner for philosophical bantering, then you have to be interested in their philosophy. If you want someone to shoot hoops with, you have to be interested in their basketball.

And Discovery is just the acknowledgement that your interest is well-founded. Physically, this may be, "Oh, he actually IS good in bed;" mentally, perhaps, "He really IS an interesting person to talk to."

Naturally, Reciprocation is absolutely necessary for a relationship. The other person has to go through the steps as well: they have to encounter you (so reading tabloids doesn't help develop a relationship with a celeb), they have to be interested in you (so if they're looking for, say, philosophy and you're not philosophically appealing, then no interest), and they have to discover (which will bring about the "Wow, I like being with this person").

But I'm waxing philosophical again...

Originally Posted by George Eliot

As you've noticed, my issues run deep, and it doesn't really have to do with outward appearance, but how I feel about myself.

The ultimate trick is to throw yourself out there and just do it, to keep trying despite failure, and eventually, you figure it out and you wonder how it was ever possible that you weren't any good at it. It's like learning to swim by jumping in a ten-foot deep pool.

Take the risk; expect, but don't anticipate, failure; learn from your mistakes; try again. In other words: just like everything else.

[openeyes]

Try a bit of volunteer work, maybe Habitat for Humanity or something like that. Most of the people you meet there will be great to know, and fairly approachable. The work you’ll be doing together will give you something to talk about, if nothing else. No one in that situation will feel disturbed if you try talking to them, as it will be a welcome way to pass the time if nothing else. In fact I can't think of any situation in which a normal man would be offended by a woman showing sincere interest in getting to know him. Maybe you’ll find someone to date while you’re at it, but it’s even more important and rewarding to become comfortable with people in general.

As far as the physical goes, as long as I can tell that a woman takes care of herself, it’s not a huge issue with me. I’d rather someone be a little chubby than boney. Most of all I’d want her to be healthy and have enough energy to enjoy life. Beyond that, simple kindness is very attractive to me. No matter how someone looks, I need to know her for a little while, long enough to see a bit of humanity inside and more than a pretty shell, before I have much interest in taking things farther.

I used to date a lot, but most of all it’s the connection that matters to me, so for the past year or two most fulfillment has come from close friendships, where people can share massage, cuddle and hold hands, but most of all simply be together and know we’re loved, without having to hide things from each other the way so many people do in dating games. One of the greatest challenges with some people is getting them to believe they’re worth loving. I've never seen an ugly person, only people who refuse to accept they could be beautiful. Such people are unlikely to really be convinced until they learn to love themselves. Then it becomes far easier for others to warm up to you. Often service/volunteer work can facilitate that.

I love sharing one of Steve’s quotes:

"Everyone you meet in your life — even total strangers — is already intimately connected to you. The idea that we are all separate and distinct beings is nothing but an illusion. We are all parts of a larger whole, like individual cells in a body."

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/200...relationships/

Best of luck, you have a good heart.

[tc33]

Originally Posted by George Eliot

Eye contact seems so simple, and yet I find it the greatest hurdle. It makes me feel so vulnerable and I don't like it.

Also, flirting is not fun for me. I'm really in admiration of people who can navigate society with such intelligence, as my skills in this area are rather lacking.

It's so frustrating! I feel like I can do anything in the world (such as learn a new language, tackle a physics course, teach myself piano, etc.) but I am so weak socially. I know everyone has something that is a challenge in this world and something you have to work on, but my inability to navigate the social structure just gets me down a lot, and I feel like giving up. Sometimes I think I could climb Mount Everest before I could strike up a conversation with a stranger.

You obviously have the will to be a social person ("I'm really in admiration of people who can navigate society with such intelligence"), and there isn't much to learn from a skill perspective aside from eye contact and small talk, so what else could be preventing you from being successful?

My guess would be a fear of rejection. Completely normal. I, too, fear rejection, and I'm working to overcome it. Steve has a good podcast called 'Overcoming Fear'. I don't necessarily agree with the 'there is no spoon' solution, but up until that point it is gold.

From a skill perspective, you cannot directly move from a level 1 social retard to a level 10 social butterfly. No, I'm not saying you're a social retard; I don't even know you. What I am saying is that if you're a level 1, your next step is level 2, and then to level 3, etc. before you can reach level 10.

This will feel like climbing Mount Everest! So, how do you get to the top? One step after another. I like systematic desensitization, mostly because it sounds so pretentiously appealing. Systematic desensitization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Others have offered EFT as a solution, which I intend to look in to.

If you have the WILL and the SKILL, then all that's left to do is work on overcoming your fear. As an introverted smart person, you are very much in your comfort zone when working on things by yourself. You will feel VERY uncomfortable as you begin to explore the world of 'other people'. Believe me, I know. It sounds stupid as hell, but that's how we introverts can be -- our overdeveloped craniums actually get in the way. Additionally, we rationalize our fears waaaay too much. In this case, because you can't logically rationalize your intrinsic human need for love away, you know you must grow. Growth will entail discomfort. You can, however, use your rationalization powers for good. So rationalize your discomfort this way: DISCOMFORT = PERSONAL GROWTH

So do you want to be temporarily uncomfortable and permanently happy, or do you want to be permanently uncomfortable and permanently unhappy?

- Tom

[George Eliot]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

I got this preternatural feeling that told me to say that 1) I like your handle and 2) have you read Portrait of a Lady?

I haven't read it, so I have no idea why I'm suggesting it. But I've always been able to rely on my intuition.

For a second I thought I had read "Portrait of a Lady" but then checked Wikipedia to refresh my memory and discovered that I had actually read a Henry James novella entitled, "Daisy Miller." So, to answer your question, no - I have not read Portrait of a Lady, but now I'm going to!

The Wikipedia entry on the novel states, "It is the story of a spirited young American woman, Isabel Archer, who 'affronts her destiny' and finds it overwhelming."

Hmmm...I wonder if this applies to my current situation? Unfortunately, if my path is similar to that of the protagonist, Isabel, I will end up choosing the safer path: "she rejects Warburton and Goodwood, two very strong and masculine suitors, in favor of the seemingly less threatening and hopelessly cold Osmond...her fate was at least partially shaped by her uneasiness with passionate commitment."

The Portrait of a Lady - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: my handle. Thank you. I chose it because George Eliot is one of my favourite authors, and Middlemarch is one of my favourite novels. Perhaps fittingly, the book delves deeply into the psychology behind people's everyday behaviour and decision-making, especially when it comes to relationships. It examines the intricacies of the human mind and studies the complexity of human interaction. Throughout the book, the author illustrates how a multitude of influences inform human behaviour.

Also, the author is a woman but chose to use a male pen name:

"George Eliot is the pen name of Mary Anne Evans[1] (22 November 1819 – 22 December 1880), who was an English novelist. She was one of the leading writers of the Victorian era. Her novels, largely set in provincial England, are well known for their realism and psychological perspicacity.

She used a male pen name, she said, to ensure that her works were taken seriously. Female authors published freely under their own names, but Eliot wanted to ensure that she was not seen as merely a writer of romances."

George Eliot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Radical]

The truth is simple. Men like women and women like men. We have an innate sexual desire, which is the consequence of Darwinian natural selection. Therefore, you will always be driven by sexual tendencies and your happiness will be associated with a fulfilling relationship.

So what can you do? Realise that your sexual urges are just the result of your genes desire to be replicated, and natural selection has favoured organsims with a high sex drive, since this helps ensure replication of the genes.

So you can either embrace Darwinism and do your genes proud, or you can let natural selection weed you out. Whether you follow social conventions to fulfill your genes desire to be replicated is irrelevant.

Also, someone once said it is every Englishman’s aim to get to his grave unembarrassed. Don't make this your aim. Live life and experience as much as you can. I'm still working on my social skills and confidence, so I am by no means perfect.

[Lauxa]

Classes are a great place to meet guys. The way I met my husband was in an economics class and I asked if he wanted to be study partners. If you want to meet guys, try taking classes where the odds are stacked in your favor. For instance, I got a degree in electrical engineering and met swarms of single guys, while my cousin got a PhD in English rhetoric and largely had to rely on the bar scene. So take a class in computer programming or calculus or auto mechanics to maximize your potential.

Finally, on your shyness, you could start by working on your posture and eye contact. Try to meet people's eyes while walking along the street or driving and not to flinch away immediately when making eye contact. Try to notice your posture and keep it open with shoulders back instead of hunching in on yourself.

[yossarian]

Originally Posted by Radical

The truth is simple. Men like women and women like men. We have an innate sexual desire, which is the consequence of Darwinian natural selection. Therefore, you will always be driven by sexual tendencies and your happiness will be associated with a fulfilling relationship.

So what can you do? Realise that your sexual urges are just the result of your genes desire to be replicated, and natural selection has favoured organsims with a high sex drive, since this helps ensure replication of the genes.

So you can either embrace Darwinism and do your genes proud, or you can let natural selection weed you out. Whether you follow social conventions to fulfill your genes desire to be replicated is irrelevant.

Also, someone once said it is every Englishman’s aim to get to his grave unembarrassed. Don't make this your aim. Live life and experience as much as you can. I'm still working on my social skills and confidence, so I am by no means perfect.

I'm curious to know if the Darwinian argument actually motivates you personally?

The whole, "Your genes will be weeded out of existence!" thing.

I understand the truth and validity of the argument however I never found it to be motivating.

George Eliot (or should I call you Mary Ann?) I think you should relax and meditate and calm yourself down, then go put yourself in social situations and have no expectations. No expectations is important. Consiously intend to be friendly and receptive, but don't expect anything.

Make an effort to set up these conditions and I think you'll find that worthwhile experience which addresses your issue will follow.

Be open to anything, expect nothing, and use meditation to relax when you feel nervous.

[Radical]

Originally Posted by yossarian

I'm curious to know if the Darwinian argument actually motivates you personally?

The whole, "Your genes will be weeded out of existence!" thing.

I understand the truth and validity of the argument however I never found it to be motivating.

It doesn't so much motivate me (since the motivation is innate), it does however help me put everyone on an even playing field, and it helps me see everyone from the same perspective.

[Love]

Hmm, I have the same problem, George Elliot. I am quiet, shy, introverted, and smart, and had trouble initiating social interactions. And it sucked a while ago when I realized that all my friends had found me... and I hadn't found them at all (in the sense that they introduced themselves to me and encouraged the relationship). It hurt me still more to realize that there were other people who were trying to initiate a friendship with me, and that I ran away from them because I needed space and didn't know what they were doing. I'm pretty independent so it usually didn't bother me. Another thing I realized was that I never asked people for help! (ex. Could you give me a ride...Could I borrow... etc.) And people like doing things for other people; it helps them get to know you. So now I'm working on: a) trying to recognize when someone would like to be friends with me, b) trying to ask people to help me (this is kind of hard, but getting better) c) trying to initiate things... (ex. do you want to go to movies?) and not spending my time setting up my answer if they should say no and d) going to events/programs that I like and contain the people I want to meet.

BTW, I'm 23.

I think I can do it. I think you can do it, too. Good luck!