Long Distance and Honesty and Directness

[danas]

I just read steves blog Initiating Relationships with Openness, Honesty, and Directness
Im feeling very confused and overwhelmed about someone I recently met and really like.
We met online and started writing to eachother and I loved his letters.
He lives in another country but told me he was coming to my country to visit a month after we started writing. He's originaaly from here and his parents and friends are here. (BTW we are both in our mid 30s.)
Finally we met. He gave me very short notice and was at my place within 10 min.
No time to dress up... Anyway, We clicked immidiately.
Everyday we met, spending hours together talking and talking snuggling and kissing.
I jumped up and down everytime he called. Which was often. It just felt so right.
Then we finally talked about "us". And yes, We were very direct and honest with eachother. We both expressed that we liked eachother a lot. That this was something very special.
So all the "Openness, Honesty, and Directness" workd fine until this point.
After a week of being toether he was leaving back to his country of residence.
He said: either you come there or Ill come back here.
On the last day we just spent hours talking and holding eachother.
In the past we both had experienced long distance relationships.
he told me his LDR gf was needy and it was impossible, so at one point he lied and invented that he met someone else, he cant stand neediness.
I too told him that with my long distance bf, we were daily talking on skype and my whole schedule was around some virtual relationship, which I didnt want, I thought it wasnt healthy and takes a lot of energy.
I told him he is free to do what he wants and to date, and if we miss eachother we'll find a way to be together.

So he flew home and wrote as soon as he landed. Then he wrote more.
But now I havent heard from him for a week.
Thats OK. I didnt want us to be communicating everyday.
But the truth is I keep waiting for him to write.
b/c we both felt this special bond, I want to go after what I really want, which is to take this relationship further.
I thought of flying over there in Easter. Its expensive but I can handle it.
Right now I dont know how he'll feel about that.
Technicaly I could move there & rent out my apartment here. So its not impossible, if thats what we desire. For my career all I need is my laptop.
Living in his country we be a good move career wise.
Right now I'd like to get out of this sea of doubt. This vagueness.
What I really want is to be in a commited relationship which works in reality and not just in my mind.
My plan is to wait till he writes again and then ask to talk to him on the phone. And eventually ask him if he'd like me to come visit.

I dont want to write to him before he writes back b/c I want to give him his space. Maybe he met someone new. And I want to give him the time he needs to get clearer on what he wants from us. if anything.
But if Im honest Im not yet open to meeting new people here. I need closre first. honesty, directness.
but I feel it cant be done in 12 seconds as Steve wrote because I feel he doesnt have a clear answer yet. becasue of the distance its hard to know what you feel, especially because sacrifices will be made.
In general I am the one that knows more than him what I want at this point in my life. He is not yet sure at least career wise. and probably in general.
I wish for clarity- any suggestions?
Im hardly gettng any sleep these days. Taming my mind has become so difficult.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by danas

But now I havent heard from him for a week.
I thought of flying over there in Easter.

I got to these lines, danas, and I felt like shouting to you through the ethernet: DON'T DO IT!!!!!

I have been there -- he pulls away, so she chases after him, so he pulls away more, so she chases after him more. She is bewildered -- what happened?!? And the more she tries to figure it out, the more she tries to "fix" it, the less interested he gets, until finally he lies to her and tells her he met someone else.

Danas, I wish I could save you that pain, which is far worse than what you're experiencing now, and much harder to extricate yourself from. If he wants be with you, he'll find a way to be with you. (I suspect he may be acting out an old pattern with you, one he's used to -- it seems to have happened with the last LDR.)

You are so fabulous and gorgeous and interesting and fun. Go out immediately and find a pair and a spare of fun men to date, and practice letting go of your attachment to this one.

Love,
Bossy Boots

[danas]

Sweet Angela
You made me laugh. which in itself is an achievement today.
Dont worry. I dont plan to fly there unless he asks for it of course.
I dont even plan on contacting him for at least a month, unless he writes first.
If he writes, and seems interested in having this relationship I dont see harm in asking him if he wants me to visit. Why would I want to be in touch with him if we dont plan to meet? Whats the point? I know he cant afford another flight ticket which is over 1000$. While I have free flight miles.
I think the sooner we give it a shot the better, so if it doesnt work, I can move on, knowing we gave it a try.
If he seems reluctant about me visiting- Ill take it as a NO answer.
The day after he flew, when things were still good, I asked my intuition for a vision on how this will develop.
I got this: Him running up a ladder, me running after him to the roof, then when I got to the roof, he ran down, I looked at him running down, but stayed in my place. Than after a while he came looking for me, and I started running away from him, until he caught me.
So right now, Im standing still. He can run away, Im not running after him.
If he does come back, I do wish to communicate my desires.
I can handle a no. As Steve wrote. A rejection is also a good answer.
As I said I wish to get clarity rather than a foggy haze of vagueness, which is what I have now. But now i feel its too soon to demand clarity from him.

[Angela]

That's great, danas! I'm all for directness and even boldness, but so many times women make the mistake of rationalizing their fears by telling themselves "I'm just a direct and bold person! I go after what I want, I don't play games in relationships!" And if you read some of the PUA material, you'll see that there is actually study in how to exploit such insecurities, and some brilliant men just do it intuitively. Please just do a periodic triage on yourself, and notice if there is stress in your desire around being with this guy -- that's how you'll know if it's really directness, as opposed to old pain.

So. Who are the lucky three guys whose lives you are going to go out today and engage with?

[danas]

Originally Posted by Angela

That's great, danas! I'm all for directness and even boldness, but so many times women make the mistake of rationalizing their fears by telling themselves "I'm just a direct and bold person! I go after what I want, I don't play games in relationships!" And if you read some of the PUA material, you'll see that there is actually study in how to exploit such insecurities, and some brilliant men just do it intuitively. Please just do a periodic triage on yourself, and notice if there is stress in your desire around being with this guy -- that's how you'll know if it's really directness, as opposed to old pain.

So. Who are the lucky three guys whose lives you are going to go out today and engage with?

Yes there is stress. Im stressed! havent slept in a week. I want sleep!
Tomorrow Im meant to go to the desert for the weekend with a male friend.. but I need to get some sleep first b/c Im a wreck! Sometimes I think that's why I cant handle love. Its just too much stress if they arent responsive all of a sudden.
Im trying to do some EFT now.

[Angela]

What does it mean about you if they aren't responsive all of a sudden?

[magi13]

Originally Posted by Angela

What does it mean about you if they aren't responsive all of a sudden?

Nothing, it could be anything, either your paranoid. To confirm try to contact him /her asap. Trust is very important in long term long distance relationships. Trust and open mindedness. Most of all patience.

Imagine the end cut scene in Pirates at worlds end. meet every ten years @,@

[Angela]

Magi13, it may mean nothing to you or me, and danas can probably see from an adult, enlightened perspective that it means nothing, but it sure looks like it means something to her subconsciously. If it didn't, there would be no stress in it.

So I ask you, danas, to ask yourself that question and see if you can bypass your adult, enlightened point of view and go directly to your child-self. What does it mean about you if they aren't responsive all of a sudden?

[magi13]

Originally Posted by Angela

Magi13, it may mean nothing to you or me, and danas can probably see from an adult, enlightened perspective that it means nothing, but it sure looks like it means something to her subconsciously. If it didn't, there would be no stress in it.

So I ask you, danas, to ask yourself that question and see if you can bypass your adult, enlightened point of view and go directly to your child-self. What does it mean about you if they aren't responsive all of a sudden?

ah you want to ask what here instincts or intuition tells her about such thought. ^,^

As i read through the posted results, I thought it was a general question to all of us. So it was aimed at danas.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by magi13

So it was aimed at danas.

Yes, sorry that was not clear.

A little hint of a limiting belief reared its head in danas' post, and I was asking her to explore it, if she wishes. By the way, danas, the request is that you ask yourself the question; it's not necessary for you to answer it publicly. Just seeing it for yourself can give you some clarity.

[danas]

I went to the desert. I had a good rest, and feel much better.

Originally Posted by Angela

What does it mean about you if they aren't responsive all of a sudden?

I guess it means, to my inner child, that Ive done something wrong.
That I failed. I guess thats how my parent communicated. If something was wrong they were silent. Never argued with words.
But after I read your question, I realised how this was probably not true. I didnt do anything wrong, and later reality proved it to me. Thanks for helping me realize!

Thursday night did some EFT after which I felt very calm (amazing how that works). I was willing to let him go, with love, and I was full of gratitude to have experienced this.
Next day was with a friend looking at an amazing Canyon. I said that at this amazing energetic place we can make a wish. My wish was for a sign from the universe if I should leave this guy or not. I happened to look at my watch. it was 4:00. at 4:01 I recieved an email from him saying that his apartment had been flooded and now renovated, everything covered in plastic, and that he had a guest staying with him last week- basicly explaining why he hadnt written.

I still havent replied. Im thinking of telling him I want to speak to him on the phone.
And when I do I might just ask him if he wants to give this relationship a try.
That I myself dont know if this is right for me, but I'm willing to give it a try because I felt something special with him, and I might be comng to his city in Easter ( I do have things to do there anyway, and people I should meet there for my work). and simply ask how he feels about that. Any answer is fine. Because I want someone who is really into me, and if hes not, he's wasting my time.
Do you think I should I be this direct? or is there another way to go about this? I simply lost my power last week, and now I have it back.
If we have a mutual desire for this to work, great. if not thats fine too.
Then I can focus on manifesting someone who lives around here, which is a much simpler senario.

[danas]

Originally Posted by magi13

Nothing, it could be anything, either your paranoid. To confirm try to contact him /her asap. Trust is very important in long term long distance relationships. Trust and open mindedness. Most of all patience.

Imagine the end cut scene in Pirates at worlds end. meet every ten years @,@

Thanks Magi.
So how do i confirm? Ask him directly what if he wants to give this a go?
BTW whats the end scene of Pirates at worlds end?

[Amandaaa]

I recieved an email from him saying that his apartment had been flooded and now renovated, everything covered in plastic, and that he had a guest staying with him last week- basicly explaining why he hadnt written.

^I had a feeling you were being overly paranoid...

(I have to comfort my friends all the time, because everyone secretly freaks out when they haven't heard from their crush in X number of days. And sometimes it's not even personal. Sometimes there's a legitimate explanation for the lack of contact, and you find out that you wasted 7 days of stress and sadness over nothing. )


I think you definitely need to communicate how you feel though. You guys need to be on the same page... and you can only get there by opening the lines of communication. Just talk to him on the phone, and say what you're thinking. Just let him know that you miss him, and that you can come visit if he wants you to. Say whatever you feel. Unless he's really really really shy, then he'll probably go along with it and say whatever's on his mind, too.

[Angela]

Danas, my feeling is that while it's a great idea to openly talk to him about your feelings and to ask him if he'd like to give it a shot, it might be a generous gift you could give him to wait just a little bit before you open hailing frequencies in this matter.

I say that because, in my experience, when someone is experiencing the stress of things like a flooded, being-renovated apartment, along with a visiting guest, he might feel a bit overwhelmed by a "relationship" conversation. At this point, maybe you'd feel better if you were to simply offer emotional support and good wishes, and be a generous source of love, peacefulness, and joy; grant him some space to pull together his resources and feel grounded again. You may find at that point that he opens hailing frequencies himself, but if you are the one to open the conversation, I think you might find him more amenable to it, having experienced you as a resource and being in a more resourceful state.

I know that I've been approached with "relationship" talk when I'm in the middle of a small or large crisis, and it's difficult, because I wanted to be really present in the relationship but needed to take care of my more basic needs before I could do that effectively.

What do you think?

p.s... have you thought about what "giving it a try" means, practically speaking? Does it mean, let's not sleep with anyone else, or let's focus on making this a primary relationship, but sex with others is an option? Or ....... something else? I think it helps if you've distinguished what you're asking him for.

[danas]

Originally Posted by Angela

Danas, my feeling is that while it's a great idea to openly talk to him about your feelings and to ask him if he'd like to give it a shot, it might be a generous gift you could give him to wait just a little bit before you open hailing frequencies in this matter.

I say that because, in my experience, when someone is experiencing the stress of things like a flooded, being-renovated apartment, along with a visiting guest, he might feel a bit overwhelmed by a "relationship" conversation. At this point, maybe you'd feel better if you were to simply offer emotional support and good wishes, and be a generous source of love, peacefulness, and joy; grant him some space to pull together his resources and feel grounded again. You may find at that point that he opens hailing frequencies himself, but if you are the one to open the conversation, I think you might find him more amenable to it, having experienced you as a resource and being in a more resourceful state.

I know that I've been approached with "relationship" talk when I'm in the middle of a small or large crisis, and it's difficult, because I wanted to be really present in the relationship but needed to take care of my more basic needs before I could do that effectively.

What do you think?

hmmm... you may be right.
He wrote friday, so Im giving some space, maybe Ill write Tuesday (or is that too unsupportive) , and offer to talk on the phone (as well as giving my best wishes& support). But not with an "we need to talk" attitude but rather "I'd be happy to hear your voice, Is it ok to call you?"
because we havent actually spoken since he left and I think one of us should take a move forward with this especially as I told him before he left how much of a nightmare it was with my old LDR when we were on skype daily and my schedule was dependent on those daily talks...so he may think Im the one who doesnt want to talk. I noticed he took to heart everything I said.

p.s... have you thought about what "giving it a try" means, practically speaking? Does it mean, let's not sleep with anyone else, or let's focus on making this a primary relationship, but sex with others is an option? Or ....... something else? I think it helps if you've distinguished what you're asking him for.

Its not so much about sleeping around. Oddly, (maybe under Steves influence?) I dont feel thats so important to me right now...He actually told me he can go a very long time without sex, but if he did, thats ok. I think that kind of thing should be out of free choice and not that he cant because he's signed some unwritten contract.
It means to be willing to make a bit of an effort to keep in touch until we meet next, which should be soon.
I dont see much point in being in touch at all if it's not leading to a meeting. Either we give this a try in reality, or we dont at all. Im not looking for a penpal. I guess it means finding out if it would make him happy if I came visit for the sake of getting to know eachother better... and if not then it's very clear he's not serious.
Thank for your insight, its very helpful

[danas]

Originally Posted by Amandaaa

You guys need to be on the same page... and you can only get there by opening the lines of communication.

Thats very true

Just let him know that you miss him, and that you can come visit if he wants you to. Say whatever you feel.

Im just afraid I'd overwhelm him if I tell him that I miss him and that Im willing to cross the Atlantic tomorrow to see him...because I think he has alot of fears, and that he's afraid I'd get hurt (or he will). I think my attitude should be cooler- like- it was very fun and special with you- Im open to giving it a try if youre into that too... and I may come there in April cause I have people to meet there anyway... so that he knows we can see eachother soon, but without the extra drama. (Although I wouldnt go there if I wont be staying with him... but there still time till april to make that clear)

[Angela]

Originally Posted by danas

It means to be willing to make a bit of an effort to keep in touch until we meet next, which should be soon.

Be careful about that, because it's pretty vague. If someone were to ask me for that or suggest it to me, it might mean one thing to me and something else entirely to the person who's asking/suggesting. What you think is "a bit of effort" probably does not match up with what his idea of that is, and "keep in touch" and "meet next" and "soon" likely have different connotations, too, don't you think?

I'm not talking about nailing him down to a specific way that your relationship has to go, but rather, being really clear within yourself about what you'd like to create, and how you'll know you were successful at creating it. Otherwise, you're leaving yourself vulnerable to the old: "I don't know exactly what I want, but I know this isn't it!" moping quandary.

[Angela]

Just to be clear on that, I think it's okay to be vague if you're heart is sincerely open to whatever shape the relationship takes. That's a wonderful state to be in, and it would feel great, wouldn't it? To be completely unattached to an outcome in your relationships?

What I'm talking about is not controlling the shape of the relationship. That would take all the fun out of it, wouldn't it? I'm talking about really being clear with yourself about what you want, so that you can effectively use the feedback that you receive.

[danas]

Originally Posted by Angela

Just to be clear on that, I think it's okay to be vague if you're heart is sincerely open to whatever shape the relationship takes. That's a wonderful state to be in, and it would feel great, wouldn't it? To be completely unattached to an outcome in your relationships?

What I'm talking about is not controlling the shape of the relationship. That would take all the fun out of it, wouldn't it? I'm talking about really being clear with yourself about what you want, so that you can effectively use the feedback that you receive.

So, what would you suggest?
We now live on other sides of the world. I just want to see if we want the same things. i.e if he too would like this to work, despite the obstacles. If he shares that intention. Because if so, we can make it work. And then, when we're together, in the same place then I would want it to be exclusive. But at this stage I really dont mind. We hardly know eachother. At this stage if he tells me he fell in love with someone else I wont feel betrayed at all, sad maybe, but not betrayed, because he's free to do whatever he likes as long as Im not by his side. and Im free to do the same.
Last night I decided I was going to focus on the connection rather than my fears. This morning he wrote again. just wishing me luck with something I have coming up and sending me kisses...Hes probably worried that I didnt write yet...
I looked at the dating site where we met and he hasnt logged in since we met a month ago

[Angela]

Originally Posted by danas

So, what would you suggest?
We now live on other sides of the world. I just want to see if we want the same things. i.e if he too would like this to work, despite the obstacles. If he shares that intention. We hardly know each other.

How about giving yourself, and him, the gift of getting to know each other? You seem to have jumped quickly to a desire to nail something down, to come to some sort of arrangement or agreement, even if it's something as non-specific as "giving this a try" or "making it work." What if you were to let go of giving it a try/making it work and simply enjoy the process of relating with him? What if you were to grant him -- and yourself -- the freedom to gloriously and generously explore who each other is, free of framework? Can you imagine how that might feel? If fear comes up around that, what might you do with it? Can you picture the stress melting from you, if you were to focus on relating with him rather than being "in a relationship" with him?

[danas]

Originally Posted by Angela

How about giving yourself, and him, the gift of getting to know each other? You seem to have jumped quickly to a desire to nail something down, to come to some sort of arrangement or agreement, even if it's something as non-specific as "giving this a try" or "making it work." What if you were to let go of giving it a try/making it work and simply enjoy the process of relating with him? What if you were to grant him -- and yourself -- the freedom to gloriously and generously explore who each other is, free of framework? Can you imagine how that might feel? If fear comes up around that, what might you do with it? Can you picture the stress melting from you, if you were to focus on relating with him rather than being "in a relationship" with him?

OK. I agree
I just thought suggesting to meet could make him see that this is leading to something concrete, and not just up in the air, and maybe that would give him a reason to give it (me) some more attention...
So you think I should wait with bringing that up...?
Initially I planned to wait till late Feb. before bringing up visiting him.
I would have to know a bit in advance if I plan to fly there, and Aprils my only free time coming up.

I wrote to him. I hope I didnt sound too kean.
I told him I was good, and what Id been up too (including my trip with a male-friend)...But I did tell him that Id be happy to hear his voice and if he'd like to talk on the phone...I hope he doesnt interpret that as neediness, because its not.

[pyrogen]

You're LOSING YOUR MOJO!!! NEVER LOSE YOUR MOJO!

Never, NEVER chase the guy.

Stop calling him. In fact, lose his number. Delete it. Don't visit him until he's visited you again. Let him come up with a way to bring you two together. He'll love it, really. A guy who really likes you will move heaven and earth for you, or at least will move heaven and earth WITH you.
You're not hurting him. It's fun for him.

Work on your own mojo and start dating other people. If the ball is in his court, you've lost your mojo. Your mojo is why he liked you.

Don't worry, he can smell your mojo half a world away. He'll call the moment you have your mojo back. Happens all the time.

A lot of people hate this book but it's really the best tough love kind of manual out there for this kind of thing... you need The Rules. Google "Rules" "Fein" "Schneider". You're not actually manipulating anyone or making people do things they don't want to do, it's just a system for weeding out the people who aren't ALREADY meeting your needs. That's not manipulation.

[danas]

Originally Posted by pyrogen

You're LOSING YOUR MOJO!!! NEVER LOSE YOUR MOJO!

Never, NEVER chase the guy.

Stop calling him. In fact, lose his number. Delete it. Don't visit him until he's visited you again. Let him come up with a way to bring you two together. He'll love it, really. A guy who really likes you will move heaven and earth for you, or at least will move heaven and earth WITH you.
You're not hurting him. It's fun for him.

Work on your own mojo and start dating other people. If the ball is in his court, you've lost your mojo. Your mojo is why he liked you.

Don't worry, he can smell your mojo half a world away. He'll call the moment you have your mojo back. Happens all the time.

A lot of people hate this book but it's really the best tough love kind of manual out there for this kind of thing... you need The Rules. Google "Rules" "Fein" "Schneider". You're not actually manipulating anyone or making people do things they don't want to do, it's just a system for weeding out the people who aren't ALREADY meeting your needs. That's not manipulation.

Thanks for your concern pyrogen, but I may sound like Im losing my "Mojo". But in reality the facts are:
he wrote friday, I didnt reply, he wrote again Monday.
I replied that I was very well, doing fun things, busy. and BTW it would be nice to talk on the phone.
I dont think thats losing my mojo.

But yes, I will start seeing other people. I feel thats the missing ingridient I need to feel balanced about this. And your right, I wont offer to come see him just yet. Lets see if he brings it up himself...Although I know he cant afford flying here anytime soon. Its not like he lives in another state.
He lives in another continent. A 12 hour flight...and an expensive one for a PHD student...