Men, tell me about your views on SEX.

[crescive]

I wrote a reply in another thread about polyamory and detailing my experience with it.

I tried polyamory with my partner when I studied abroad. Seeing as how I was going to be across the Atlantic for 6 months, and we were both very progressive and open-minded, we both agreed that it was the best decision. In fact, he told me to have as much fun and experience as much as I could. I, in turn, wanted him to have the same, to not miss me or be lonely.

Anyways, it was life-changing, I was so open to the world and it received me with open arms. I am so glad I was able to do that because I now realize that there is not only one right person for anyone, and that the world is so big and there are so many connections to be made. It was really amazing. I even fell in love. However, when I went back home, feelings like jealousy and distrust began to arise. The 6 month hole in our relationship left many questions and we were struggling to catch up with one another about everything. We had many fights and tears, but our relationship in many ways also became deeper and more passionate than ever, but it was quite unhealthy and quite emotionally damaging. In the end, we broke up.

I still completely believe in polyamorous relationships but it is extremely tricky because emotions are very volatile and unpredictable. I believe it is only possible with 2 highly conscious, ego-less, honest, and loving individuals. As we all know, there are not too many people who are at such levels of being. I'm sure if there are anyone who wants to try it and believe they can do it in the most positive ways it would be Erin and Steve. I really hope them all the best! I do think life is all about connection and human relationships. Love is infinite and spreading love is always a positive thing.

I wanted to go into more detail about why polyamory did not work for our relationship. It was about sex. I think my ex-bf became consumed with the idea that I might have had better sex with someone else other than him. This was unbearable to him because our sex was always extremely intimate and mind blowing. However many times I would explain that it wasn't "better" only different, he would not believe me. He had read my travel diary and read about what I wrote about my sexual experience with this other man and felt a lot of insecurity because he claims I never wrote about our sex like that. Anyways, I know when it boils down to it, it was just his ego being bruised but I wonder if this is something that is extremely sensitive for all guys? If so, why are there some men who are so calm and even willing to "wife-swap" or adapt a swinger or polyamorous lifestyle? Basically I want to know more about the male psyche and their view on sex. Is it a tool for possession? A way of stroking the ego? Is this a sign of immaturity?

[missing]

Originally Posted by crescive

Anyways, I know when it boils down to it, it was just his ego being bruised but I wonder if this is something that is extremely sensitive for all guys? If so, why are there some men who are so calm and even willing to "wife-swap" or adapt a swinger or polyamorous lifestyle? Basically I want to know more about the male psyche and their view on sex. Is it a tool for possession? A way of stroking the ego? Is this a sign of immaturity?

you'd' probably get different answers from different men, as they are individuals with different ideas about this sort of thing. Here's my take. Your pre-set ideas indicate a lack of understanding, or rather a lot of negative assumptions about why a man would be hesitant at the idea of his gf/wife sleeping with other men. Do possession and ego have anything to do with it? Possible. But is this "immaturity" (what does that mean, anyway)? From a purely evo-psych POV, men can never be sure that his wife's child belongs to him (and thus cannot be sure if it's worth dedicating his resources to it/her). That would explain the value of virgins, the shaming of "sluts" and perhaps indirectly the desire to possess a woman's sexuality for himself. He just wants to be sure he's not getting screwed over genetically. Since we are animals built on DNA, obviously this feeling will reverberate through our psyche and effect our behavior, be it consciously or unconsciously. It's best to acknowledge rather than suppress this if we want to be most in control of our lives. Simply writing it off as "immature" to me, sounds like a cop out; a way to deny reality that doesn't suit you. It sounds like you are saying that maturity in a man would be that he denies this part of himself, and abandons his ego. But that's impossible for him to do, and even if it were, it wouldn't be prudent. The ego is there to protect us, and while we shouldn't get too tied down to it in regards to our identity, casting it aside completely leaves us vulnerable to those who stay more invested in their own ego.

Aside from that, your attitude also suggests that you wouldn't accept this male perspective on sexuality as valid (calling it immature) which might mean he senses this and has come to realize you don't accept him for who he really is, but rather who you want him to be. This might manifest in insecure, overly ego invested behavior, whether or not he realizes it. The focus on "better sex" may very well be a cover for something else.

Anyways, it was life-changing, I was so open to the world and it received me with open arms.

This sentence gave me pause. Perhaps while the world opened up to you, it remained closed to him. Maybe this was because he couldn't open up, or perhaps he did and the world simply didn't receive him, or flat out rejected him. At the very least it likely didn't receive him the way you were received, based on what you are saying. Generally speaking, a young woman has far more sexual allure than your average young man, for better or worse (you didn't mention your age, but I'm assuming 20's or less likely early 30s). Perhaps you're man simply did not understand this when he initially agreed to go polyamorous. You called him progressive and open minded, so some naivety would make sense on his part. This might also explain why it was so much easier for you to drop the ego and feel more connected to different people, as you were accepted. Men and women are simply not on the same playing field when it comes to dating at a younger age, and I see no indication in your post that you understand this.

In the end I think turning a healthy monogamous relationship poly is like playing with fire. You might burn it beyond repair. Sounds like what happened here.

As far as why some men might be willing to "wife swap" or be swingers, perhaps they see it as a trade off so they too can be polyamorous. If done in a structured setting, it has the chance of being a bit more "fair" to them, and sharing their woman with another man, while maybe not ideal, is not the end of the world, and something they might even learn to enjoy. It doesn't mean they have less ego, just that they feel as if they are loved enough and being taken care of enough that they don't need to put it front and center the way guys might in an unstructured polyamourous setting (which would most likely favor the female).


Again, this is all just my own limited perspective. It may or may not be applicable to you. I doubt you will find it very appealing and may try to deny it, but hey, you asked. ;p

[ixmatus]

I am a man and would say missing's post was excellent. I can't say all men will react the same to generalized situations or emotional experiences; but, the vast majority of us do have experiences that reinforce foundations given to us at birth; both genetic (ala what missing said) and cultural.

I know for one, the feeling or need to possess my woman's sexuality can be overwhelming at times. When my girlfriend discussed with me her sexual history, the fun and joy she experienced having a threesome while she wasn't attached to either of the participants was an interesting thing for me. I felt possessive and as if someone had taken her away from me (even though it was in the past, and we do have incredible sex).

I would put it in the field of being heart wrenching. It feels difficult to explain, to be honest. I can see and understand the logical reasoning behind Polyamory - it is logical; but, the desire to have one person and have that person all to yourself overrides the logic for me (obviously, it makes breaking up an extremely painful process). These emotions are also part of the reason many men adopt a closed emotional lifestyle with many sexually casual female partners, it's less painful to be distant from them and have sex with them than it is to get close to them and go through the vicious cycle of a relationship (what I am experiencing right now).

Not sure if that helps, but, there you have it.

[Pace]

In my past experience, my possessiveness of my partner's sexuality came from insecurity. It wasn't just that I was afraid that she would find someone who was better in bed than I was, it was that she would find someone who was better in bed than I was AND LEAVE ME FOR THEM, or that she would find someone who was better in bed than I was AND I WOULD FEEL INSECURE AND BAD ABOUT MYSELF.

Without those extra ANDs, the possessiveness went away. I've been in relationships where I was very insecure about my girlfriend having sex with other people, and I've been in relationships where I was totally comfortable with it. The difference for me was how secure I felt in our relationship, both sexually and relationship-wise.

And by the way, I was male when I had those past experiences I mentioned, so my opinion counts. (;

[shy talk]

Originally Posted by missing

Generally speaking, a young woman has far more sexual allure than your average young man, for better or worse (you didn't mention your age, but I'm assuming 20's or less likely early 30s). Perhaps you're man simply did not understand this when he initially agreed to go polyamorous.

This part of Missing's reply about sums it up really. I've had many a conversation with women who have difficulty understanding why promiscuous men are hailed as 'studs' but promiscuous women are denigrated as 'sluts' or 'whores'........leaving primeaval genetic legacies aside, partly it's because to get sex there is little or no effort on a woman's part, whereas for a man there is generally tremendous effort involved and pressure from a very young age to be 'sexually experienced'.

I recall giving my cousin and her friend a lift to the airport (they were on their way to Greece on holiday) neither was a model type, but their conversation was about when and how not if they would be having sex on holiday.....such a conversation between young men would be dismissed as bravado or wishful thinking.

I bet if your b/f had produced as many 'notes' to compare as you in your time apart there wouldn't be such a big problem. I think he might be a little jealous.

Or he might love you and not want to share you......either way he's f***ed....or rather he isn't!

[openeyes]

While I'd like at least one of my girlfriend's kids to be genetically mine (if and when we have kids) so that I'd have an improved chance of relating to it, my girlfriend has at least one friend that I'd be comfortable with her carrying a child of. The priority for both of us is simply that it be a healthy, happy, intelligent child, and I'm fine with her seeking out the best specimens for that. Likewise she's okay with me helping someone else have a child, though neither of us would take any of this lightly and a lot of thought/consideration would go into it, and it may involve artificial insemination.

As for sex, while my preference is that we each only have sex with people we can both interact very closely with, if my girlfriend were interested in having an experience with a heterosexual male or a lesbian it'd likely be alright. The closest I come to experiencing jealousy is being bothered if I can't be with someone because they're with someone else. Provided my girlfriend's interactions don't keep her from being with me, and we both stay healthy, I would be rather happy and look forward to us having whatever experiences we can.

My girlfriend and I aren't going around having sex with others at this point, and it'd be okay if we never did, as she hasn't been drawn to it and I'm fine without it, but we do maintain many close friendships. Multiple past girlfriends openly dated other people while I was with them and it was never a problem for me, particularly when it was a good friend of mine that they were also seeing.

[DerekH]

This type of behavior stems from two areas, ownership and sexual performance.

Ownership is pretty simple. Most guys and girls in a relationship will claim ownership of their partner. With sex, guys will want to be your(girl) one and only. The guy feels as though the sex that you have together is so much better then ANY OTHER guy can give you. This is definitely possible with the aspect of connection in relationships.

Guys take A LOT of pride in being able to please a woman sexually. Its just one of those things that we have learned socially in some aspect. Most of us have developed an ego around our sexual performance and that we're the best at it. With relationships, the sex can become monotonous and predictable. Since guys have built such an ego around this, they will rationalize it in a different way, usually blaming something about the girl. This is something I hear from guys in marriages.

This is a very sensitive area for MOST guys. The same with their 'skills' to pick up women. I have felt these types of feelings pretty extensively and am consciously becoming... more conscious

[crescive]

Thanks for so many great replies. Ixmatus' was wonderful, I can empathize with the 'heartwrenching' gut emotion, sometimes emotions just can't be rationalized, you definitely put it into perspective for me. However, I think missing's response about me having preset negative assumptions is a little harsh & off. Though it was a really good point, that was not how our situation was at all. He had more sexual partners (5/2) than I had while I was away so I don't think that the quantity was the issue. And in my opinion the ego is the source of negativity especially if it negatively affects your mentality and relationships. I think if a couple's relationship isn't deep and honest, then having multiple partners would be a very bad idea, but if you consider tour partner as precisely that, your partner, someone who was on your side who would never want to hurt you then I don't see why something like sex & relationships with other people would be as big of a deal. Of course I think there is something extremely attractive & romantic in monogamy, it definitely strokes the ego to be someone's one and only, to be wanted above the rest, however, this feeling I think, can still be attained in a poly relationship if it were truthful. Anyways, thanks for the really great insight. It was extremely interesting especially shy talk's theory about why women are sluts whereas the male equivalent are studs. It is definitely easier for women to have sex, however, to think of women as sluts because they have it biologically/culturally easier than men sounds like patriarchal thinking stemming from jealousy. To reenforce these unfair beliefs does not sound conscious to me.

[crescive]

Pace, I think our problem definitely stemmed from how insecure the situation made him feel. It is the truth that insecurity can be poison for relationships, it can be hidden but its effects (such as jealousy and its vindictive qualities) always come through, and it will ultimately sabotage a relationship.

[Magicinthenight]

Originally Posted by crescive

Pace, I think our problem definitely stemmed from how insecure the situation made him feel. It is the truth that insecurity can be poison for relationships, it can be hidden but its effects (such as jealousy and its vindictive qualities) always come through, and it will ultimately sabotage a relationship.

So true.

I used to be very insecure, especially when it came to relationships. This affected me in many ways: I was jealous of my partners regardless of what they did (as I always held the assumption there was someone better suited for them out there, I didn't even need the actual physical threat of someone else for these thoughts). Insecurity and jealousy will eat you up inside no matter what your partner does if those are things you're feeling inside.

It's also something that affects your ability to find partners. I've always been told I'm attractive but when I was at my most insecure I couldn't have attracted a man no matter how much sex I wanted since I was too insecure to even get out into the playing field. So saying it's "easy" for women and "difficult" for men to attract sexual partners may not be all that black and white.

To blame your partner for feelings of insecurity doesn't seem like a good way to progress as surely no one makes us feel anything we don't let them. Didn't Eleanor Roosevelt have a saying about this?

Having said all that, I think sexuality is an area where most people (not just men) feel even more vulnerable. I think most people have a desire to be viewed as being sexually capable and being able to please their partners well. So a person who might be pretty well adjusted in most areas of life, could still suffer from feelings of insecurity when it comes to sex. And I would assume that the less experienced the person, the more insecurities they may have.

This is of course all an assumption since I'm not a man, but from what I've seen men are not that different from women, when it comes to feelings were all human. Of course we can use biology and genetical inheritance to explain some aspects of men's sexuality but I find it hard to believe that this would be the full explanation. After all the labelling of sluts/studs is not biologically generated, it's something we as a society have created. Some people choose to see their world in this manner, some don't.

[ScottLee]

Originally Posted by crescive

He had read my travel diary and read about what I wrote about my sexual experience with this other man and felt a lot of insecurity because he claims I never wrote about our sex like that. Anyways, I know when it boils down to it, it was just his ego being bruised but I wonder if this is something that is extremely sensitive for all guys? If so, why are there some men who are so calm and even willing to "wife-swap" or adapt a swinger or polyamorous lifestyle? Basically I want to know more about the male psyche and their view on sex. Is it a tool for possession? A way of stroking the ego? Is this a sign of immaturity?

The very first thing that I think of when I read your first post is that you may have been able to work things out after the fact if you had gone on to write something about him. My girlfriend recently was extremely hurt that I did not tell her she was beautiful, gorgeous, etc. enough. It may come from insecurity, but that doesn't mean there isn't something you can do about it by simply listening to your partner. I made it a goal for a month to tell my girlfriend she was pretty/etc at least once a day, especially after she had put effort into it. It's easily done, and gives them the satisfaction of knowing that they have gotten something they wanted.

Am I saying this is the absolute best way? Not necessarily, but if it works, it works. The best thing to do is to have a positive, confident outlook on life all the time, but for your partner maybe that's easily said than done. After all, he's only human.

That's all I have time to say for now. I'll have to read other replies later...

[magi13]

Polygamy is not for everyone. ^^ I used to be a poly person but when I found someone I wanted, I broke off that world and sticked to only one.

It's a personal choice that only you can decide on.

[Erock]

Originally Posted by crescive

Is it a tool for possession? A way of stroking the ego? Is this a sign of immaturity?

Well it's certainly not a tool for possession, I think that's more the other way around: women use sex as a tool to try to keep men around. It is definitely enhances the ego, and I would say it's mostly ego and the need for connection. I don't know about immaturity. I'm 19, and all I want to do is hook up with chicks so maybe it is.

Erock