Those For and Against The Seduction Community

[Plato]

Yeah, it's sometimes worth being reminded it's PU-Art, not PU-Maths.

The value in the theories is not in lines or canned material anyway, except as examples. The value is the identification of patterns.

[m18pak]

Originally Posted by funchy

The problem is that if you read the PUA sites, the goal is the score. Not a relationship. Not to be kind to another. Not to be honest, giving, or considerate. The whole energy is put into getting a SCORE and nothing else matters. The woman isn't a woman, she's a vagina or a spot on a scorecard.

It's a cycle. Male isn't sure he trusts women. Male buys into PUA mindset and treats women like scorecard marks, and everything is put in terms of "if I do X, I can get Y from her". Some women buy into the act, so it's proof the whole mindset must be correct, right? And then it becomes proof that women must all be "playing a game" too. And if the man can't be trusted, clearly by this logic women can't be either. Which goes back to reinforce the idea that women aren't worthy of trust & respect.

Funchy, I'm not sure if you realize that the men who go into PU generally don't trust and respect themselves. You treat others the way you treat yourself.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by theknightwhosaysni-NI

"Button pushing" is like manipulation, that is reducing the people's free will by making them act mechanically like robots.

I'm impressed. Someone has realized that free will is completely manipulable.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by pyrogen

It's about time men were taught how to date.

My observation, as a female outside observer of PUA, is that guys are finally doing what women have done in every culture where arranged marriage wasn't practiced. Like anything, the techniques can be used for good or evil I'm one of those odd women who's had platonic male friendships that were actually platonic, and I've known several "natural" PUAs now and had the great fortune to shadow them on their rounds.

From what I've seen of the PUAs who are going to use the techniques to manipulative and destructive ends, have already been doing so. They've already been "players" since their teen years and early twenties. They don't have "technique". They are "prodigies".

I think the average age 25+ PUA student is some "nerd" trying to get past the stage where women throw drinks in his face. He likely has been through the "nice guy syndrome" phase where he overgives to women who could care less and now is dating with a healthier level of detachment.

Guys are starting to understand that they can't just get a woman and sustain a relationship based upon one or two traits (such as money) alone. They have to actually do something. They are starting to have the same consciousness about their "market value" in the dating arena, that women have had.

Many of the PUA "rules" sound exactly like a male version of "The Rules" or the softer versions of same in women's relationship books.

Men are starting to actually think, "Maybe I'm doing something wrong", and LISTEN to the advice offered them by more experienced people, instead of bumbling around thinking they know everything.

The average woman goes through this in the dating world: we are socialized to get fixed up and be attractive for our partners, not to talk too much, et cetera.

Who meets us at the date? Usually a schlumpy guy who didn't comb his hair, has poor grooming, and poor social skills.

It's about time, and it's been long overdue, that men were actually taught how to date.

Thanks for your opinion. I wonder though, as a woman, are you happy to be reduced to being a number, and not really a unique human being with unique traits. Not knowing what you look like, you're a 7, an 8.5, a 6 or a 4.. and I don't really want to know your name, because that's something you have to tell me when I use the right programmed lines and attitudes on you.

Just curious..

Maybe it's just a matter of there being good points and bad points about PUA skills, and you've given the good points.

[Yynatago]

Originally Posted by marinik

In Steve's blog about going polyamorous he says that he has learned more about women from men than women! OK it sounds logical as we women do know our way around men and can teach our daughters a few things, but as women in her 50's I am so curious what you are talking about?! What kind of lessons?

Hey Marink,

Growing up, I didn't have any men giving me advice about women. The topic just never came up and my mum was the go-to parent for advice on anything. Also, my male friends were just as clueless about women as me.

Consequently, I received many advice about women from women.

Since joining the seduction community and participating in some good quality forums I started hearing the advice I was given before, spoken differently. It wasn't until certain things were explained from a guy's perspective that it all made sense.

Sometimes it was because men and women think differently. Sometimes women omit what is obvious to women but not to men. Sometimes a guy needs to hear things women would never admit to.

Instead of being a man who's always trying to please, seeking to fit in her life and withholding my sexual desires, I am now a man who pleases women, leading with confidence, welcoming her to be a part of my life and unashamedly express my sexual beast when desired.

Regards,
Yynatago

PS. There are great seduction forums out there that focus on improving themselves to be better man. A popular motto in one of my favourites forum is "Leave the girl better than you found her".

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by brendannz

are you happy to be reduced to being a number, and not really a unique human being with unique traits.

It doesn't really matter if you're unhappy if it's useful.

When I walk down the street, I rate people by their threat level. I'm pretty sure it doesn't make other people happy that I say they're a 10 because they could probably knock me out with a single shot or a 5 because I could probably keep them off me.

Does that make me a bad person?

[Fullcrum]

I am a huge supporter of the Seduction Community.

If this was 5 years ago, I would not be.

But today it has evolved where people strive to live as authentic human beings. Many people go on to become successful and get laid often. It's what they want, and they get it while being authentic and developing their personal power.

That's admirable.

Whining about scandalous men tricking women into bed doesn't get men who want control over this area of their life anywhere. So for all those complainers out there - no worries . Men will learn this one way or another, and it is our job as conscious people to support them in their own personal growth. Yes, even the manipulative ones.

Manipulation belies the pain that caused it. So don't judge so harshly. Give them the gift of consciousness.

BTW, the seduction community introduced me to Eckhart Tolle and self-development in general. Without them, I would not be where I am today and would never have found Steve Pavlina.

[brendannz]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

It doesn't really matter if you're unhappy if it's useful.

When I walk down the street, I rate people by their threat level. I'm pretty sure it doesn't make other people happy that I say they're a 10 because they could probably knock me out with a single shot or a 5 because I could probably keep them off me.

Does that make me a bad person?

I wouldn't think it makes you a bad person. Was just wondering if the a rating out of 10 is degrading to the relationship part of the game from a females perspective

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by brendannz

I wouldn't think it makes you a bad person. Was just wondering if the a rating out of 10 is degrading to the relationship part of the game from a females perspective

Then the female shouldn't ask what she's rated at.