I'm becoming insensitive

[Rose of Cairo]

My personality changed during the year 2008. One year ago, I was very empathic and sensitive. I not only could feel how others felt, I also immediately felt what their weak points were and carefully avoided pushing their buttons. I didn't do it intentionally, it was just natural to me. My adaptability was high.

Now I'm not like this anymore. I'm still sensitive and empathic enough to know how others feel, but it doesn't stir me up emotionally the way it used to anymore. I also don't avoid other people's weak spots anymore. I still do notice them, but I refuse to consider it.

As a result, I can be perceived as being harsh.Today my beloved friend seeker5 didn't like something I wrote to him (we were chatting) and I simply replied "Well, your ego will have to suffer it." He expected me to be more compassionate, as what we were talking about was a "sensitive" topic for him, but I replied "I don't owe it to anybody to be particularly careful just because they have some issues" (or something like that, I forgot the exact wording).

We talked about my change. Seeker is all about being loving and deeply connected. He sees this evolution of mine as being something negative. He says people won't feel safe to open up to me anymore, and this will prevent true intimacy. He says he's not comfortable with being vulnerable in front of me anymore. There's like a wall between us now.

I'm feeling very sad right now. Looks like we don't resonate with each other anymore the way we used to. He's not the only one. Several of my old friends don't like how I have changed.

I'm used to having friends leave my life (and others appear) every time I make some important decisions. I lost a whole bunch of friends when I quit smoking, and my very best friend left when I decided to take 100% responsibility for my life. When people go too different paths, they just have to part ways. I'm fine with that. On a deeper level, we're still all connected.

But I'm so sad, right now.

Edit: I realize I don't know what I'm asking for. Maybe a hug?

Edit2: And one for Seeker too?

[Dan.Linehan]

I've been harshing it up for a long time -- I was sort of raised that way.

But one thing I've learned in harshing people up over the years: reality is a mirror. Generally, if I feel an overwhelming urge to tell someone else something harshly worded, I'll apply that same advice to myself first. I'll ask myself when the last time was I was doing something similar.

The other day, I told Seeker he was being too easy on himself. The reality is, I take things too easy on myself frequently too. But I told him partially what I needed to hear.

Even right now, I'm telling you to be more mindful, and of course, mindfulness is certainly one of my own long term lessons as well. *Shrugs* You can't really escape it.

There is also a fine line between being polite and being an enabler. It's up to you where to draw that line. Sometimes you can bear bomb to wake them up, but if bombing people is all you do, that's not a good sign..

[Dan.Linehan]

Edit: No hugs for you. You violent, violent person!

[Bradshaw]

<-- Hugs Rose in a very warm, compassionate and loving embrace, and whispers in her ear how everything will be allright and that no matter how you feel right now, things will get better!

[funchy]

I don't know you in real life, but from what I know fo you on this forum you are indeed a sympathetic and caring person. I don't see evidence of you intentionally ignoring peoples' buttons. I like you because you lay it on the line. People (myself included) sometimes need truth more than they need patting on the head.

Perhaps this change of friends isn't so much a bad thing but just you growing apart from your old circle of friends? As we mature, things do change. And maybe some of your friends are changing too? What do you think?


Maybe today you just need a hug...

[Parthon]

Just throwing something out there, I could be way off:

Are you too in your own head? By this I mean you think about the situation too much without actually being present in the moment. It sounds like you were disconnected from people way before you were harsh.

I'm not sure if I'm right, but it could be the focus of your recent trials and discoveries. I love that you are doing it, but too much self focus and ponderings can lead you to get too far inside your own head and think too much. That would leave you disconnected from other people if you did that too often.

Perhaps it's time to give yourself a thinking break and put yourself back into touch in why you started personal development in the first place. It may have been to be a better person, but there would have been a reason you wanted to be a better person.

And as always Rose, Thank you so much for sharing of yourself so openly.

*lots of super hugs*

[lasti]

Are you also harsh to yourself? How is the voice inside your head? Has it changed? How do you feel when being harsh?
Maybe you're a bit disconnected from yourself?

[cacheborn]

*Hugs Rose of Cairo and seeker at the same time*

[ellie]

Oh really Rose your just gorgeous Your original post above still shows your empathetic and sensitive side, but sounds like now you just have a bit more balls

I'm totally jealous

I love the relationship between you and seeker, not that I have seen it that much, but it kind of reminds me of one of my close buddies, who was like my brother. I totally miss that relationship

Just slap seeker over the head, that usually works - te he!

[JimOfferman]

I don't think that telling people what they want to hear is nice. Quite the contrary, I feel it is deception bordering on manipulation, which is why I never do it.

Having said that, it's been my experience that saying what people need to hear online can be very difficult. If I'm talking to you directly, I can say "then your ego will just have to suffer it" in a gentle way that gets the message across without angering you. Typing those same words in a chat box, however, you might have "heard" this instead:

THEN YOUR EGO WILL JUST HAVE TO SUFFER IT!!!

Speech conveys much so more than mere words do, which is something we all tend to forget at times when writing stuff online. It's worse between friends, because then we also tend to assume we're on the same page and in the same state of mind already (most times, we are not). That's why you need more words to convey what you want to say online!

Could it be that you're not becoming insensitive, but just getting a little sparse with the words you type?

*hugs* to you, seeker5 and everybody else who feels like (s)he needs one!

[Holistic Star]

Hi Rose,

I've become 'harsher' over the last year. I used to feel everyone's pain too and it's so draining. And yes I was an enabler for a lot of people.

I realised I wasn't helping others of myself. I faced up to and dealt with a lot of my issues which helped because my 'pain-body' wasn't activated by other people so easily.

I also did a lot of work on 100% responsibility. (Thanks Angela ) I had 1000000% responsibility and felt guilty over things that weren't anything to do with me. Bringing it back to 100% and making sure it was my stuff I was responsible for was a big learning curve.

Also the work of John Demartini has really helped me. He says in every positive there is a negative, and in every negative is a positive. When you accept and appreciate the blessings in the curse, and the curse in the blessing you feel love and peace and gratitude.

So yes, I guess I do seem 'harsher', but I'm also a lot more effective at helping others now and happier in general.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

THEN YOUR EGO WILL JUST HAVE TO SUFFER IT!!!

LOLOLOL Oh Jim you just made me laugh to tears for five minutes. This is hilarious!

Yes, you're right, online communication definitely adds to the problem. It's difficult to know how exactly someone means something online. Seeker and I have an almost telepathic connection, we're often able to feel how the other one feels, even without communicating at all. So I usually trust that what I say will come across the way I mean it. But this can fail of course, especially when I'm pushing his buttons.

And you're right too that my style has become more concise. I'm more action-driven, more impatient and tend to make less words. So I'll just write "your ego will have to suffer it" instead of "whoops, looks like this is a sensitive topic for you. I'm sorry you're hurting, but I can''t consider this now. Your ego will have to suffer it. "

That's why you need more words to convey what you want to say online!

I'll remember this advice. Thanks.

Originally Posted by ellie

I love the relationship between you and seeker

I love it too, that's why I'm being so sad. This relationship is very beautiful (and complicated). I'm thankful to him that he allowed me to talk about this and share these details about him here.

Thank you everybody for your lovely hugs

You know, I don't feel that I'm being harsh. Others perceive me as harsh, but I don't mean it in a harsh way. There is no aggressivity when I say "harsh" things. I don't feel disconnected. I don't go around bear bombing either.

It's simply that I don't take special care of not hurting others anymore. I think this is disrespectful towards them. It sends the message off to them that they're weak and cannot take it. It robs them of the opportunity to deal with their stuff and grow. I think this stuff is theirs to deal with, and it's not my job to be specially careful about it.

When I spontaneously want to react in a certain way, and I know or feel it would upset them, I decide not to consider this and to react the way I want to, because this is just the only genuine way of reacting. Of course I could hold myself back and be diplomatic, but this isn't really who I am. Am I really a friend to them if I'm not who I really am with them?

I do feel loving and compassionate when I say such things. I don't mean to hurt them. But when their buttons collide with my spontaneous self-expression, I choose the latter. I think being too considerate isn't really compassion, it's enabling of negative stuff.

[Angela]

I have said before that I believe empathy is overrated, and people often react with horror to that. (Their egos will just have to deal with it! -- {joking}).

Maybe what you are doing is moving out of empathy -- that is, feeling the feelings of others, which I think is an inappropriate and even arrogant thing to do -- it's not your job.

I find you to be exquisitely compassionate, sensitive, and fine-tuned to the feelings of others, and time and time again I have experienced you popping up with words of exactly the quality that will make a difference for me, exactly when I *need* it. I love you and am grateful to you for that. I don't think you are *trying* to provide me with what I need; I think you are trusting yourself and trusting me in our relationship to take 100% responsibility for my feelings. And I think maybe that's what you are taking into the rest of your life, too... the lesson of trusting yourself to take your next right choice for yourself, and trusting that others will do the same. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to develop that sort of Trust.

I know that one of your most cherished values is Harmony, so it doesn't surprise me that you would be distressed by an expression of disharmony from someone you care about deeply. (Or even maybe from a stranger! ). And you might want to consider that your current practice of rebelling from your old habitual practice (by deliberately feeling and expressing your own feelings) is your way of calibrating and aligning with your highest intent. Pushing the buttons of others might just be the most harmonious thing for you right now -- I can relate! Don't forget that having your buttons pushed is one of the greatest gifts you can receive. There may be some stuff to clean up, and there may be more effective ways of accomplishing what you want to accomplish, and you are taking on the lessons of doing all that in a BIG way. As usual, you bite off more than you can chew, because you are a Warrior and deep down you *know* you can chew it.

Don't be surprised to see that as you evolve, your relationships evolve, too. It's a wonderful thing, and you have all the power in the world to generate what you want to generate.

I love you and hug you. And those little LOLcats made me cry like a baby!

[Holistic Star]

"Empathy is over-rated" LOVE IT!!!


No more wearing my ability to be empathetic as a badge of pride.


Good to see you back on the board for a bit Angela

Hugs for Rose and Seeker and that lovely little panda too.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

No more wearing my ability to be empathetic as a badge of pride.

That's funny, because I do read that a lot -- people boasting about their empathy, as if it were a good thing. I don't think *pride* is going to provide a whole lotta power or effectiveness for you, anyway, but I do notice you, Holistic Star, generating huge, nuclear amounts of love, compassion, and understanding. You are a Nuclear Generator, and I am inspired by that. I wonder if it leaves you feeling satisfied and fulfilled, qualities I find far more good-feeling than mere pride.

Good to see you back on the board for a bit Angela .

Thank you!

[Holistic Star]

Originally Posted by Angela

You are a Nuclear Generator,



!

Well I can explain that. I grew up up near Sizewell B and regularly swam in the sea around it. Oh yes, and I glow green in the dark.




Thank you for your lovely compliment. Yes being loving, understanding and compassionate is very fulfilling. It usually comes easily, however of course there are occasions when I'm not loving, when I become pumped up and self-righteous and I don't like it. I think I need to align with more with Power and Courage in my life to be really intelligent. I tend to defer to others easily. I'm learning to be 'gutsy'. That's my focus for 2009.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Holistic Star

Well I can explain that. I grew up up near Sizewell B and regularly swam in the sea around it. Oh yes, and I glow green in the dark.

I prefer to call it "evolution" rather than "mutation."

I think I need to align with more with Power and Courage in my life to be really intelligent. I tend to defer to others easily. I'm learning to be 'gutsy'. That's my focus for 2009.

I wonder if that's what Rose might be doing. Although she's already quite gutsy and powerful and courageous, perhaps she's learning a new kind of Power and Courage -- one that's more about having a breakthrough in expressing her own inner truth.

[Holistic Star]

Originally Posted by Angela

I wonder if that's what Rose might be doing. Although she's already quite gutsy and powerful and courageous, perhaps she's learning a new kind of Power and Courage -- one that's more about having a breakthrough in expressing her own inner truth.

I think you're bang on the money there!

I just love it that we're all learning, growing and evolving (mutating!) on our own paths, but together too.

[pyrogen]

Maybe you were at one extreme, burned out, and went to the other.

I experience this. I work as a caregiver and when I first started, I gave, gave, gave to my work and to people around me. After a year, now I'm totally into myself and hate the human race.

The flip side of overgiving and not being assertive, is complete selfishness; you're probably going to bounce back/forth between them until you find a balance. The flip side of being an empath is being callous.

I don't think that being an empath is necessarily a positive thing. You can go your whole life, have satisfying relationships, and even be a good person without actually feeling other people's feelings. The trick is just to acknowledge/validate them. You can let THEM feel their feelings, understand where they are coming from, but not experience their feelings as your own.

Unless your name is Counselor Deanna Troi and you work on the Starship Enterprise there is no job for you as an empath. Even a good psychotherapist isn't an empath. GOOD therapists don't always take the patient's side and don't feel the person's feelings.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by pyrogen

Unless your name is Counselor Deanna Troi and you work on the Starship Enterprise there is no job for you as an empath.

Hehehe

I've always been able to feel other people's feelings. In the past I was permanently confusing my own feelings and those of others, it took me a lot of time to learn how to differentiate what's mine and what's not mine.

Now I don't feel other people's emotions in my body anymore. I often know how they feel, but not always. And I don't suffer from it myself anymore.

However, I wouldn't say I'm at the other extreme now. I don't go around being a selfish ********* and hurting others. I don't hate humankind either, I love others. I love people!

I'm just not willing to let their issues dictate the way I communicate with them.

I'm not willing to let my issues dictate the way I communicate with them either of course. Of course it happens that my unaddressed issues take over and influence my reactions, but that's something I work on.

Their issues though are none of my business.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Angela

Maybe what you are doing is moving out of empathy

Yes, it looks like I'm moving out of it. That's why this thread is called "I'm becoming insensitive". For me it feels like becoming insensitive, simply because I'm not used to it. I've noticed very clearly in the last few months that I'm less and less able to feel what others feel. Not that I don't care anymore, really not. It just doesn't affect me personally anymore.

But my being harsh isn't because I'm less empathetic. I'm not being harsh because I don't notice the pain I'm triggering. Even if I don't feel it myself, I know they hurt or get angry. It's just that I refuse to take it into account.

I think taking it into account and letting it influence how I react wouldn't be aligned with myself. Period.

And it would not be doing them a favor either.

I find you to be exquisitely compassionate, sensitive, and fine-tuned to the feelings of others, and <a lot more of nice words>

Thanks Angela.

I know that one of your most cherished values is Harmony, so it doesn't surprise me that you would be distressed by an expression of disharmony from someone you care about deeply.

Not Harmony. Hardcore Harmony Hardcore Harmony is not afraid of conflicts

But yeah, I feel sad. Seeker says there can't be true intimacy between us anymore and that now there's a lot of stuff he won't bother talking about with me anymore. And also that I'll train people not to talk with me about their weak areas, because there is no "safe zone" for others to show their weakest side to me, and that I won't be able to talk about everything with others without getting very negative reactions, and that I'll have less compassion. I'm sad about that.

Don't forget that having your buttons pushed is one of the greatest gifts you can receive.

Hehe muhahaha Reminds my of when I got so angry at you and called you a b*tch for telling me something I didn't want to hear I'm so thankful to you for that Angela

Originally Posted by Angela

I wonder if that's what Rose might be doing. Although she's already quite gutsy and powerful and courageous, perhaps she's learning a new kind of Power and Courage -- one that's more about having a breakthrough in expressing her own inner truth.

Yes. I consciously decided to align with Power a few months ago. That's when I began changing so much. I thought I'd need to do something to align with Power, but in fact formulating this intention was already enough to make me change a lot.

It's much more than being harsh to others or having less empathy. It's a very different feeling. I feel much, much, much stronger now than I was one year ago. I trust myself that I can take anything now. So maybe I'm also trusting that others can take what I say to them, too.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

So maybe I'm also trusting that others can take what I say to them, too.

I think that is a very generous gift to give the world.

Don't be too surprised when someone calls you a b*tch. Just say, "You're welcome!"

[jawillie]

I have felt like this from time to time, too. Most recently was over the holidays as some of my friends complained about thier In-Laws coming and cleaning houses and "stressing" out over all the festivities. I just don't get that way of thinking. I guess because when it comes to Holidays and what-not I really don't let others dictate what I do. I am honest and say "no" plenty, so I don't add too much to my plate to stress about. So I offered my view point and got, "Well, I am only HUMAN, sorry if I am stressed." Ugh. I kept my mouth shut after that. lol

The more and more I learn about myself, the less I get stressed. That feels good, so I want to tell others how to do it, but often it just seems they want to stay in their problems, so you listen and nod your head. On the flip side I am trying to remember I still stress about things and I still have things to learn and that *I* am also "only human" so I do try to offer empathy. But if it's over the same problems over and over again it gets harder to do.

I still think you are a beautiful person with a huge heart and full of love for others, so I would not say you are insensitive!!

[Brutha]

Maybe your decision to connect with everyone one the street regardless of their personality changed you.
If you connect with everyone you might have unconsciously build an internal barrier that prevents yourself from feeling everybody's pain, to protect yourself.

Haven't you also moved to France in the last year? Maybe you can't connect as well with the people around you because you don't speak French natively. That might reduce the amount of empathy that you feel on a daily basis.

[Holistic Star]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

But yeah, I feel sad. Seeker says there can't be true intimacy between us anymore and that now there's a lot of stuff he won't bother talking about with me anymore. And also that I'll train people not to talk with me about their weak areas, because there is no "safe zone" for others to show their weakest side to me, and that I won't be able to talk about everything with others without getting very negative reactions, and that I'll have less compassion. I'm sad about that.

I don't believe that - because I know I've shared some personal information with you very recently and I never felt anything other than compasison and totally supported.

[RT Wolf]

Rose, I think that's a positive change...but then I've been going through that sort of change myself.

It sounds more like you're mourning the passing of the relationship with seeker. You enjoyed it while it lasted and now you're entering a new phase in your growth. You'll find people who are more receptive and open to straight shooting. There's many people out there who like straight shooters including myself. It's not good or bad, it's just different and you're just incompatible that way.

I've gone through this sorta thing, so my solution was: figure out what the other person wants/needs at that time and how to help them achieve that goal. Instead of focusing on how you interact with them and how that might be perceived, figure out how to help them achieve that goal. For some people, you'll have to listen to them without judgement and be really, really gentle and patient. For others, you'll have to tell them to suck it up and just do it. At different times, the same person might require one or the other to get them to handle whatever.

People may judge you as "harsh" which is only their opinion based less on whether you actually are harsh and more on their feelings, what they needed at that time most, etc. You can also deliberately be "harsh" to weed out people with no backbone or real commitment to their goals.

Good luck!

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Maybe your decision to connect with everyone one the street regardless of their personality changed you.
If you connect with everyone you might have unconsciously build an internal barrier that prevents yourself from feeling everybody's pain, to protect yourself.

I don't think so. I'm used to feeling everybody's pain. I've been connecting with everybody for a couple years before I began losing my empathy and getting harsher.

Haven't you also moved to France in the last year? Maybe you can't connect as well with the people around you because you don't speak French natively. That might reduce the amount of empathy that you feel on a daily basis.

I just moved back to France. I was born here and spent the first twenty years of my life here. That's enough to understand French.

But I think empathy isn't about language. You don't need to understand what someone is saying to feel their emotions. You don't need to read their body language or even to see them. It's all about feeling. You just feel it in your body. Or a little bit outside your body. You feel the feeling as if it was you having this feeling. Even when they're lying and pretending they feel something else. So it's not about language.

Empathy is a cool skill to have. In some way I'm sorry I'm losing it.

[Nani]

that is, feeling the feelings of others, which I think is an inappropriate and even arrogant thing to do

Hi Angela! This sentence surprised me a bit. Could you tell me why you think empathy is inappropriate and arrogant? Just curious.

[lifetimelearner]

I used to think that all the nurses working in the ER at the hospital I used to work didn't have an empathetic or sympathetic bone in their bodies -some even admitted this

but I looked at it logically and realized that w/out these emotions they are abe to concentrate at the job at hand and perform their duties

anyway you are still a great person Rose

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

Rose, I think that's a positive change...but then I've been going through that sort of change myself.

I think it's a positive change too. Definitely.

It sounds more like you're mourning the passing of the relationship with seeker.

Of course. I hope the relationship isn't completely dead and that some day we'll reconnect. I love that guy, I'm so sad we're going such different paths. Not that one is better than the other. They're just so different. And if Seeker feels he cannot open up to me anymore, if he feels we cannot talk about everything anymore... that's the end, isn't it?

You'll find people who are more receptive and open to straight shooting. There's many people out there who like straight shooters including myself. It's not good or bad, it's just different and you're just incompatible that way.

Yes. I know, I'll attract other kinds of people into my life now. And those who disapprove of what I'm becoming will disappear. That's life. I'm happy about it. Just sad, too.

I've gone through this sorta thing, so my solution was: figure out what the other person wants/needs at that time and how to help them achieve that goal. Instead of focusing on how you interact with them and how that might be perceived, figure out how to help them achieve that goal. For some people, you'll have to listen to them without judgement and be really, really gentle and patient. For others, you'll have to tell them to suck it up and just do it. At different times, the same person might require one or the other to get them to handle whatever.

That is for sure a wise and loving approach. I'm not sure I could do it though. Who am I to know what someone needs now? It's easier to simply be myself and let myself respond spontaneously without thinking about how it might be perceived or what the best strategy would be.

People may judge you as "harsh" which is only their opinion based less on whether you actually are harsh and more on their feelings, what they needed at that time most, etc.

Yes, I've noticed that what we think about others says more about ourselves than about them.

You can also deliberately be "harsh" to weed out people with no backbone or real commitment to their goals.

I just want to be myself without doing anything intentionally, except for being true to myself of course!

Thanks for your post. I'm particularly happy you replied in this thread.