Frustrated with experience on these forums.

[Jay Pavlina]

People may dislike me for this post, but... I feel like it needs to be said. I apologize if I offend you. But hey, my last name is Pavlina, so it's my job.

It's great that there are many highly conscious people on these forums, and it's great that everyone is trying to help. But there is one thing I see time and time again, and it makes me almost want to stop participating altogether.

I've noticed that people are so quick to offer advice that they don't even really read what the original post is about. They often assume someone has a problem they need help with that they didn't even mention. I've seen so many negative assumptions made that it just makes me sad. Are people assuming others have a problem so that they can feel better about themselves by fixing it?

Misinterpretation is very common, and you can't really blame someone for that, but if you just read a little more closely it won't happen as much. I think people's egos are getting in the way, and everyone wants to seem like they're very conscious and they have all of the answers. So they quickly "read" a post, without really reading it, and then say, "Oh, I can help this person who is lost," and then they offer advice. Like I said, it's great to try to help someone, but people want genuine, heart-to-heart help. Not fake quick "advice" that you are just offering to boost your ego.

Don't worry. Not everyone is doing this, but it happens much more often than I'd like. It's severely diminished my experience on these forums. It makes me sad to see it. And now the most important part of this message:

Just be yourself.

You don't have to play the role of the one with the answers. It seems like people either play the role of needing help or the one with the answers. You are both all the time. So just let it be.

Everyone is flawed and it's okay. If people judge you, whether on these forums or out in the world, it's fine. It will happen, so just let it. No one's perfect, so there's no need to act like you are.

We're all on the same team of humanity, so let's act like it. Stop comparing. You don't have to see others as less than you in order for you to be more. Let go of the ego.

And if you think this doesn't apply to you, IT DOES. It applies to me too. We all make mistakes. So let's have fun, share love, and grow together.

[Interpreneur]

Ironically Jay Pavlina, I think you're a huge part of the problem you're whining about. One day you're preparing to be a world-famous filmmaker, and the next day you're planning for your summer of homelessness stealing fruit from the farms in Davis.

You came in here claiming to be Steve's long-lost cousin and have been giving advice on things you obviously know absolutely nothing about, so since we're being honest, shut your trap and try to learn from the people that know, or don't let the forum door hit you on the way out.

And even though I plan to help feed a lot of homeless people around Sacramento this year, if I see you near my one of my trees you best climb it fast because the pitbulls are coming after you and I'm not stopping them.

[funchy]

I don't dislike you. But I don't agree with this post, so perhaps you now dislike me?

Why would someone post about an unresolved conflict if they didn't want others' suggestions?

Why is it the assumption those giving replies are doing it only for ego? Or that every misunderstanding about a situation is because people are lazy and are giving quick, fake replies? That's really a negative view of fellow members, isn't it?

How can you judge others' real intentions? On behalf of the board members, I see a lot of good people giving their time, thought, and knowledge to help others. I think there are some great people here! Sure, misunderstandings happen, but isn't that the nature of the internet? I've only been here a little while and already I feel like I've made some good friends. I like it when people disagree with me; it makes me explore my own beliefs & knowledge further. I haven't had need yet to ask for a lot of advice, but if I did, I'm sure that I would get some great answers. There are some really smart, caring people here, and I don't understand why you're not seeing that?

You're frustrated because you feel people are being condescending; however, at the same time you say others are "fake", not "being ourselves", "playing" a role, and not a part of "humanity". Maybe you don't realize it, but by addressing an entire board and saying such things, these words sound a bit condescending.

I honestly don't understand this post. I see you're unhappy, but I am not sure what you'd prefer we do?

[Jay Pavlina]

Originally Posted by Interpreneur

Ironically Jay Pavlina, I think you're a huge part of the problem you're whining about. One day you're preparing to be a world-famous filmmaker, and the next day you're planning for your summer of homelessness stealing fruit from the farms in Davis.

You came in here claiming to be Steve's long-lost cousin and have been giving advice on things you obviously know absolutely nothing about, so since we're being honest, shut your trap and try to learn from the people that know, or don't let the forum door hit you on the way out.

And even though I plan to help feed a lot of homeless people around Sacramento this year, if I see you near my one of my trees you best climb it fast because the pitbulls are coming after you and I'm not stopping them.

Well, well, well... Interpreneur. Apparently, you don't know how much I have developed my fruit stealing tree climbing skills. I will steal all of your food so that you have none to give to the homeless people. And if you send pitbulls after me, I will throw fruit at them until they are dead. And you will be next. I'd stay away from Davis if I were you...

YAY!!!! I love humor. If I got more responses like this, I'd be the happiest person alive... until someone gets offended by a joke I make and kills me. I love you Interpreneur!

[Jay Pavlina]

Funchy, your post is an example about what I'm talking about. I will break it down. You took the time to read everything I said and write a heart-felt response, but you made quite a few assumptions. And you wrote many questions about things I didn't say or already addressed.

Originally Posted by funchy

Why would someone post about an unresolved conflict if they didn't want others' suggestions?

When did I say I didn't want other people's suggestions? I never said that. I am very grateful for suggestions that people offer.

Originally Posted by funchy

Why is it the assumption those giving replies are doing it only for ego? Or that every misunderstanding about a situation is because people are lazy and are giving quick, fake replies? That's really a negative view of fellow members, isn't it?

I didn't say everyone. I said that I see it a lot. There are plenty of great replies, and I don't assume that every reply is a quick, fake one. But it's not too hard to see when it is. If you look at my original post, it says, "Don't worry. Not everyone is doing this, but it happens much more often than I'd like."

Originally Posted by funchy

How can you judge others' real intentions? On behalf of the board members, I see a lot of good people giving their time, thought, and knowledge to help others. I think there are some great people here! Sure, misunderstandings happen, but isn't that the nature of the internet? I've only been here a little while and already I feel like I've made some good friends. I like it when people disagree with me; it makes me explore my own beliefs & knowledge further. I haven't had need yet to ask for a lot of advice, but if I did, I'm sure that I would get some great answers. There are some really smart, caring people here, and I don't understand why you're not seeing that?

I can't judge other people's real intentions, and I don't try to. But it is obvious (to me) when something is not heart-felt. I also like when people disagree with me for the same reasons you do. I never said I didn't. I also mentioned that misunderstandings are bound to happen, but that there would be less if people read the original post more closely.

Originally Posted by funchy

You're frustrated because you feel people are being condescending; however, at the same time you say others are "fake", not "being ourselves", "playing" a role, and not a part of "humanity". Maybe you don't realize it, but by addressing an entire board and saying such things, these words sound a bit condescending.

Now you are making many huge assumptions about me. How do you know exactly why I am frustrated? I knew this would sound condescending, that's why I said this may cause people to dislike me and would most likely offend people.

Originally Posted by funchy

I honestly don't understand this post. I see you're unhappy, but I am not sure what you'd prefer we do?

Just do your best to be conscious. I'm not unhappy, just a bit frustrated... that's all. But there's always room for improvement. I made this post to bring truth to the situation so that people could see what was happening.

Thank you so much for your time funchy, and I hope you understand it a little better now. I don't expect people to be perfect, so don't worry about that. Just do your best.

[Subscreet]

I must agree with Funchy. I haven't really noticed this much and it's ironica that you misinterpreted much of Funchy's post.

For example:

When did I say I didn't want other people's suggestions? I never said that. I am very grateful for suggestions that people offer.

Funchy wasn't referring to you, he was referring to the forums as whole.

Now you are making many huge assumptions about me. How do you know exactly why I am frustrated? I knew this would sound condescending, that's why I said this may cause people to dislike me and would most likely offend people.

Are you serious? There's little to no assumptions being made. Your thread title is "Frustrated with experience on these forums" and you go on to tell us why. Even if you didn't explicitly say "I am frustrated because..." it's implicit that that's the reason you're frustrated.

To be honest it seems like this is almost entirely a problem on your end. You're the one making assumptions about people's intentions and claiming they're easy to discern when that's just not true. You can't claim to know if a post is heart-felt or not because you're just reading text. You're missing a lot in the way of nonverbal language like body language and tone. Maybe you could post some more examples from other threads to support your point but right now it seems a bit weak.

[ajkumar]

Wow,

I'm relatively new to this forum, but I got to say, things seem like they got heated up here!!

[jawillie]

People are being themselves, maybe you just don't like who they are? It seems like you often post about people doing things in ways YOU don't like. Why, and more importantly, HOW could we all do things in a way that pleases you?

[Rose of Cairo]

It's not the first time someone posts in the social & relationships forum to complain about our way to post in here. But what exactly they don't like always is something else, how come?


Edit: Do you know http://www.thework.com, Jay? How about doing the Work about this forum? Maybe turning what you think about it around would lead to some insights?

[Jay Pavlina]

Whew! Is it hot in here or is it just me? I meant no harm, but I'm not surprised with the responses I got. Let's get down to business. If I'm lucky, I can destroy my reputation some more.

Originally Posted by Subscreet

Funchy wasn't referring to you, he was referring to the forums as whole.

Ha ha! You're right! I totally missed that one. I don't understand funchy's point taken in that context.

Originally Posted by Subscreet

Are you serious? There's little to no assumptions being made. Your thread title is "Frustrated with experience on these forums" and you go on to tell us why. Even if you didn't explicitly say "I am frustrated because..." it's implicit that that's the reason you're frustrated.

I'm not frustrated because I think people are being condescending. I just think people's egos are a bit too involved. To be honest, I thought there would be much less ego on this message board before I started using it. I was really surprised.

Originally Posted by Subscreet

To be honest it seems like this is almost entirely a problem on your end. You're the one making assumptions about people's intentions and claiming they're easy to discern when that's just not true. You can't claim to know if a post is heart-felt or not because you're just reading text. You're missing a lot in the way of nonverbal language like body language and tone. Maybe you could post some more examples from other threads to support your point but right now it seems a bit weak.

You're completely right that we're just reading text and things are hard to interpret. That is why many misinterpretations take place, and they are to be expected. It is entirely possible that the problem is only on my end. I have already posted one example, and more will not help. People will look at the examples with their own beliefs and shape them to fit their view.

Originally Posted by jawillie

People are being themselves, maybe you just don't like who they are? It seems like you often post about people doing things in ways YOU don't like. Why, and more importantly, HOW could we all do things in a way that pleases you?

I don't want people to do things just for the sake of pleasing me. That's not important. I know everyone is not being themselves because I recently read a post where someone said that they were offering advice and pretending they had all the answers but they felt bad about it because in truth they had problems in their life. I'd rather not say who it is to protect the privacy of that person. If one person is not doing it, then it is impossible to say that everyone is being themselves. I don't like or dislike someone based on what they do. I love everyone. If you find that hard to believe, then don't believe it.

If I post about people doing things in ways that I don't like, I am completely unaware of it. If I'm doing this, I'm unconscious of this and need guidance in this area. Can you help me to understand and overcome this problem? Thank you.

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

It's not the first time someone posts in the social & relationships forum to complain about our way to post in here. But what exactly they don't like always is something else, how come?

I'm not complaining. I was seeing if anyone else felt the same way I did. If no one else feels this way, then I'm the one with the problem. I'm trying to bring more truth to my life and the lives of others. If I'm wrong, that's fine. If I'm right, that's fine. It doesn't matter who is right as long as we all grow from the experience.

Some of these responses have hostility in them. Yes they are just text, but the word choice, grammar, and punctuation reveal it. Ask yourself why there is anger there. Why do you need to tell me that I'm wrong? What is it inside of you that feels you have to defend yourself? When you find your answer, you find the ego. If posts like this help people to see that, then I will do more. Feel free to write anything you want. Damaging my reputation helps me to let go of my own ego. Thank you everyone for your responses, and I'm looking forward to more.

[cacheborn]

after reading the post and all the responses I feel I should add the following.

Many people who post here are in a highly emotional state. They are desperate and you can feel it when you read their post. In such cases the first thing would be to offer support, I think that's what we are here for. Secondly, suggest what you think might solve the problem. Here, the big advantage is you are looking at the problem from the third person POV and hence you may be able to see more clearly why the person is making the mistake. Sometimes, there are some questions about areas where I am struggling myself. In that case I just offer support and look at what other people are suggesting.
Now I am not sure how one can determine if a response was made after reading the post carefully or not. As to the post to which you are referring (where the author claims not to know much and still offers solutions) I think it was written in a state of intense emotions and should not be taken literally.

[tintin]

Jay
guilty as charged

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Jay Pavlina

Not everyone is doing this, but it happens much more often than I'd like. It's severely diminished my experience on these forums.

There are hundreds of people actively posting in this forum; you're the one complaining. Who's problem do you think this is?

And you're wrong, btw. I'm perfect, I do have all the answers and my ego is kept in check at all times!

Can you say the same?

[lifetimelearner]

I believe you were talking about me

what you said about me was true -

that's why I decided to only offer support with responses like -that's great,good job,good for you etc

or

if things resonate with me than I offer my previous experience in that area to show that-

yeh I have been there, done that
and this is my subjective opinion




take it or leave it



there are some people suffering here and I feel connected to that suffering

it seems there are a lot of us that have been through and are still going through hell -trying to better ourselves or else we would not have chosen this forum



jay I am not judging you -it's not my job
but my advice take it or leave it would be exactly that


take it or leave it

[Jay Pavlina]

There are quite a variety of responses on this topic. Many people are missing the point of what I'm saying, and that's perfectly okay. This isn't about me. It's about learning and growing.

Let's take a look at some examples on this thread to learn about emotions, ego, and attachment. You are free to call me insane if you'd like, but I will teach nonetheless.

First let's take a look at the post from Rose of Cairo. This post is interesting because it's divided into two parts. Here is the first part:

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

It's not the first time someone posts in the social & relationships forum to complain about our way to post in here. But what exactly they don't like always is something else, how come?

This post appears to have negative undertones. I'm guessing Rose of Cairo didn't like what I said, had an emotional reaction, and felt the need to voice his/her opinion... but subtly. The smiley makes it less threatening but doesn't change the message. Now let's look at the second part:

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Edit: Do you know http://www.thework.com, Jay? How about doing the Work about this forum? Maybe turning what you think about it around would lead to some insights?

Wow, what a difference! Because this is an edit, I'm guessing Rose of Cairo had a little bit of separation from the issue, so s/he felt less emotionally attached to it. Now Rose of Cairo is not concerned about defending anything and offers a very loving, caring response. Thank you so much Rose of Cairo!

Originally Posted by ajkumar

Wow,

I'm relatively new to this forum, but I got to say, things seem like they got heated up here!!

Because ajkumar is new, s/he doesn't have any attachment to the issue and is not offended. Therefore, s/he has nothing to defend. The post is not emotionally charged at all and is an observation. It's not an attack because there is no reason to attack me.

Originally Posted by tintin

Jay
guilty as charged

This post by tintin takes quite a bit of courage. S/he drops the ego completely and admits to a personal problem. This gives tintin more truth in his/her life, and therefore more power. Acceptance is the first part of conscious change. Great job tintin!

Originally Posted by cacheborn

after reading the post and all the responses I feel I should add the following.

Many people who post here are in a highly emotional state. They are desperate and you can feel it when you read their post. In such cases the first thing would be to offer support, I think that's what we are here for. Secondly, suggest what you think might solve the problem. Here, the big advantage is you are looking at the problem from the third person POV and hence you may be able to see more clearly why the person is making the mistake. Sometimes, there are some questions about areas where I am struggling myself. In that case I just offer support and look at what other people are suggesting.
Now I am not sure how one can determine if a response was made after reading the post carefully or not. As to the post to which you are referring (where the author claims not to know much and still offers solutions) I think it was written in a state of intense emotions and should not be taken literally.

This is a great response because it isn't emotionally charged. There is no attachment to the issue. Cacheborn offers valuable insights without feeling the need to attack me or defend anything. This is a great example of a post that will not provoke any negative reactions, only loving ones. Great job caheborn!

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

There are hundreds of people actively posting in this forum; you're the one complaining. Who's problem do you think this is?

And you're wrong, btw. I'm perfect, I do have all the answers and my ego is kept in check at all times!

Can you say the same?

In the first part of the post, JimOfferman addresses the issue with rude undertones. S/he could have addressed it much more lovingly, but is most likely somewhat emotionally attached to the issue and feels a need to tell me I'm wrong. In the second part, JimOfferman uses sarcasm to make a point, but it is also done somewhat unlovingly. JimOfferman may have been trying to help, but his/her emotional attachment to the issue caused the response to be a little rude. Thanks for your advice JimOfferman.

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

I believe you were talking about me

what you said about me was true -

that's why I decided to only offer support with responses like -that's great,good job,good for you etc

or

if things resonate with me than I offer my previous experience in that area to show that-

yeh I have been there, done that
and this is my subjective opinion




take it or leave it



there are some people suffering here and I feel connected to that suffering

it seems there are a lot of us that have been through and are still going through hell -trying to better ourselves or else we would not have chosen this forum



jay I am not judging you -it's not my job
but my advice take it or leave it would be exactly that


take it or leave it

Here, we see another post that is not emotionally charged. LifetimeLearner's post is very loving. S/he is not defending or attacking and offers a response laced with love and care. Even though s/he is voicing his/her opinion, s/he does it lovingly. Awesome!

I hope this analysis has helped you to see that emotional attachment to an issue can provoke negative responses. Also, another thing I've noticed is that people often use smileys to make something seem less threatening. Just because you put a picture of a happy face next to what you say, it doesn't change what you say.

Why did I do this? Am I defending my ego and showing who is wrong and strengthening my argument? You are free to make your own judgments, but that is not why I did it. I've seen that this thread can be used as an invaluable teaching tool, so I'm taking advantage of it.

And to be honest, I'm not frustrated at all. Maybe I was before, but now I just see more opportunities to help people grow, so that doesn't even matter. This isn't about me. It's about love. Write whatever you like, and together we can increase our love and consciousness.

[jawillie]

See, but, Jay, you are picking apart what other people are saying/doing. So you are saying there is a "right way" and a "wrong way" to talk in the forums. This brings a negative vibe and will cause people to clam up for fear of not communicating "right."

Honestly, I have never really opened up in these forums as I would in real life. I am an emotional, passionate person, and I already saw there wasn't much room in these forums for such "silliness."

I agonize over every word I type in these forums because there are people like you who pick apart everything and every word and translate it all so indepth.

But, in the end, all a person can be is who they are... it still seems like you want things done a "certain way" as if there is a right/wrong way... that bugs me to be honest.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Jay Pavlina

In the first part of the post, JimOfferman addresses the issue with rude undertones. S/he could have addressed it much more lovingly, but is most likely somewhat emotionally attached to the issue and feels a need to tell me I'm wrong.

Nope. You couldn't be further from the truth.

I wasn't being rude at all. What I wrote earlier has nothing to do with me and everything to do with you. I'll rephrase what I said: if all of us are happily posting on this forum and exchanging advice and you are being frustrated by the contents of some post when others are not, what does that say about you?

You're thinking in terms of right and wrong here. I'm not.

I have nothing to prove to you and I'm not here to put you down. I say what I feel is right to say for your consideration. No more, no less.

In the second part, JimOfferman uses sarcasm to make a point, but it is also done somewhat unlovingly.

Nope, wrong again. I made a joke. No hint of sarcasm, but perhaps a dash of irony.

Oh, and I am perfect. That's no joke. That's my belief, but you're absolutely free to think otherwise.

JimOfferman may have been trying to help, but his/her emotional attachment to the issue caused the response to be a little rude.

Your words, not mine. Please stop projecting!

Thanks for your advice JimOfferman.

Thanks for addressing me in the third person. Nice touch*. I am a guy, btw, so next time you can just type "his" instead of "his/her"... though I'd prefer it if you'd just talk to me directly instead.
*Here is me being sarcastic

Just to be clear: I'm not angry or upset or emotionally attached. I'm responding to you - that's all.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Jay Pavlina

First let's take a look at the post from Rose of Cairo. This post is interesting because it's divided into two parts. Here is the first part:

This post appears to have negative undertones. I'm guessing Rose of Cairo didn't like what I said, had an emotional reaction, and felt the need to voice his/her opinion... but subtly. The smiley makes it less threatening but doesn't change the message.

LOL

You're funny Jay

No, I had no emotional reaction to your post. I didn't dislike what you said and I didn't feel the need to defend anything.

My post was friendly, I was smiling while writing it and the wink was a real wink to you.

What I was trying to say in this subtle way is: It's not the first time someone posts in the social & relationships forum to complain about our way to post in here. But what exactly they don't like always is something else. Why is that?
Probably because it has nothing to do with the forum itself. Probably because each one of the complainers sees in this forum something they don't like about themselves. This is called mirroring.

Now let's look at the second part:

Wow, what a difference! Because this is an edit, I'm guessing Rose of Cairo had a little bit of separation from the issue, so s/he felt less emotionally attached to it. Now Rose of Cairo is not concerned about defending anything and offers a very loving, caring response. Thank you so much Rose of Cairo!

You're welcome.

I added this part after a couple minutes because I thought maybe my wink and hint above wouldn't be enough for you to get what I meant. So I added this link to The Work. The Work is predominantly about mirroring.

If you read your OP carefully, you'll notice that what you found frustrating here (people making negative assumptions about other people having problems that they didn't mention or don't really have) is exactly what you're doing with us here. You made a whole bunch of negative assumptions about the way I was feeling towards your post or the undertones in my post and invented problems for me (being attached to defending the forum, feeling bad about your post) that I simply don't have. FYI, if I had had a problem with your post, I'd have said it clearly.

Instead of interpreting my question as friendly and taking it seriously (it was meant as a serious question), you chose to feel attacked by it. That's ego.

I'm female, btw, and one of your facebook friends.

[Jay Pavlina]

Rose of Cairo,

YOU ARE AMAZING. Thank you so much for helping me to understand this problem. You are right, it appears that I was doing exactly what I was saying other people are doing. And so it is a lesson on ego after all. The fault is mine. Let this be an educational tool for anyone in the future. Thank you for helping me to understand in a loving way.

I have so much to learn, but sometimes I get caught up in teaching. I think many of us have this problem. It is funny how we project our problems on other people. And I'm glad my post made you laugh. Laughter is probably my favorite thing about being alive.

Please forgive me for the mistakes I have made. I am sorry. I'm really happy that I posted this thread though, because I learned quite a bit and I think others can learn from it. If you have a problem, just be honest about it and this helpful community will aid you on your journey. There is nothing to be afraid of. Thank you everyone for helping me to be more conscious of my flaws.

[silicon toad2000]

In any personal development journey we all come across information which is not exactly what we need but is still relevant.

I feel that this information, while it may not be right on target, it helps to fill in the edges of the picture and could well be relevant to the OP as they progress on their journey.

It could also be exactly what someone other than the OP needs who is in a similar stage of their journey. Such as those people who search the forum or click on a thread because it resonates with them.

I don’t feel that responses which may be a little off target detract in any way from this forum, quite the contrary in fact.

I guess for any of us who find what Jay has said strikes a chord, maybe start reading the posts more carefully.

Jay, change the world by changing yourself. You must realise that attempting to change others with such a broad sweeping post would be fruitless and I’m left wondering what the purpose behind the post was.

two more posts since i started writing this. gotta be quick around here

[Jay Pavlina]

I can't get over how funny this thread is... and how stupid I am!

First, I give a lecture on the problems that I see other people doing. In truth, these are my problems. Then I go on to do exactly what I was saying I don't like other people doing.

That is the funniest thing ever! Please take a moment to laugh at my stupidity, ignorance, and hypocrisy.

...alright you can stop laughing now...

It's crazy how unconscious humans can be. But it's funny... really funny. I hope you can find the humor in my flaws... and your own. Let's laugh it up!

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Jay Pavlina

I think many of us have this problem.

I think you need to make fewer assumptions about other people.

What I mean by that is that when trying to understand the words or actions of others, we have a tendency to assume that others think and reason in very much the same way that we do. Unfortunately, that assumption is plain wrong. It's an easy mistake to make, of course, because our outward behaviors are so alike. However, if it were possible for you to reside in my head for a day you would probably find that my thinking isn't anything like yours. The hardware is pretty much the same, but the software is wildly different.

A better (as in more reliable) way to understand others is look at their current words and actions in the context of what they have said and done before. In other words, when you're trying to make predictions about someone's actions, don't consider what you might have done if you were that person, but instead look at how that person behaved in the past. Similarly, when you're trying to interpret the meaning of someone's words on this forum, look at their previous posts and, perhaps, at how other people responded to them before. You'll get a much clearer picture of the person's state of mind that way.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Jay Pavlina

Please take a moment to laugh at my stupidity, ignorance, and hypocrisy.

I wouldn't call it stupidity, ignorance, or hypocrisy. I would call it POWER. It takes a whole lotta personal power to set up such a crystalline mirror for yourself, in a way that generates insight not only for yourself but also for others. Thanks for using your power in this way!

And also for the good laugh.

[Jay Pavlina]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

I think you need to make fewer assumptions about other people.

Oops! Even in my realization I still made an assumption. This is an unconscious pattern that I have, and I need to break it by becoming more aware every time I do it. I now see that making assumptions of any kind is completely fruitless. But I guess it can help if you're trying to predict how something will play out in your life. Maybe it depends on the situation. I'm probably overanalyzing it, which is another unconscious pattern I often fall into.

I don't know. I'm just another person living in this crazy, crazy world trying to figure stuff out. And I don't even know if it is wise to try to figure stuff out. Figure that one out!

Originally Posted by Angela

I wouldn't call it stupidity, ignorance, or hypocrisy. I would call it POWER. It takes a whole lotta personal power to set up such a crystalline mirror for yourself, in a way that generates insight not only for yourself but also for others. Thanks for using your power in this way!

And also for the good laugh.

Ha ha ha. I guess it doesn't matter what you call it. What's important is what you get from it. I'm glad you found it funny.

[Plato]

Interesting thread.

What I've learned from posting is that forums are a seductive trap.

They are informational but not as much as reading a book.
They are social but not as much as real interactions.
They are good for writing down your thoughts, but not as good as a blog or private journal.
They are good if you want to help other people but inefficient because people aren't as receptive to unqualified advice as somebody we perceive an authority of some kind.

They are a GREAT way of wasting time though!

Whoops.

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Angela

I wouldn't call it stupidity, ignorance, or hypocrisy. I would call it POWER.

I agree. I love this guy! He's so powerful!

Hey Jay,

thanks for the flowers! You're welcome. This mirroring thing is a tricky one. When I catch myself giving the same advice for the third time within a week, I know that's something I'd rather look at myself.

You have no fault at all and you don't need to apologize or feel sorry. We all learn from you, so, thank you.

I didn't laugh at you, but you know that. I was laughing with you, because your way of being made me feel happy. Your power is refreshing!

Be who you are. Love.

[Tweety]

I don't know about the experience on these forums because I'm new, but I do find what you're describing happens a lot in real life. People talk about a problem or feeling down about something, and well-intentioned others jump in with a solution or three.

This is fine but will often be met with the 'yes buts', the reason being that the person has usually been able to think of these solutions themselves already, or because the solution applies to the person suggesting it but isn't relevant to the person with the problem.

I think suggestions are fine, but I find that what I and others really need in a lot of cases is validation of how we're feeling, acknowledgement that this situation is difficult, and the belief that we'll be able to work it out.

Kind of like the Venus and Mars thing really

[lifetimelearner]

interesting turn of events

live and learn Jay
live and learn

[Interpreneur]

I think Jay is now being overly sarcastic. I don't he believes for a minute that he was wrong to begin with.

But maybe that's my flaw. I tend to see right through people, even online.

Cheers!

- Bob Pavlina

[jaamkie]

I guess I do agree with the original poster, and I wish I'd moderated some of my harsher posts. Of course these forums require many assumptions in giving advice, often all we can do is just suggest more questions and ideas to think about, different ways of interpreting what was presented.

My difficulty is that my most critical negative posts seem to be the ones that get the most feedback. Of course the reason I write is to interact with others here and exchange ideas, so I've noticed that I'm tempted to write something inflammatory just to get the affirmation of outraged feedback, versus the silence that often comes after a temperate exploratory post. Not sure what to do about that except what I've been doing, which is to come and go and not get attached to the forum for social interaction.