To become a PUA!

[Xanafax]

For some time I have had a back-of-the-mind interest in the PUA community, it's always been something I have wanted to learn, but I have never got around to it.

Bear in mind my experience with women so far has been one girl who only wanted to use me, and a psychopath (not legally diagnosed as such, but she is) who basically ruined me. I suffer from a social stigma that is the residue of my former self who wasn't very nice or popular. I am not doing too bad now, but you see what I mean.

In Steve's post on Polyamory he mentiones "The Game" well I looked it up on Amazon and one thing led to another and I found this:

PUA training

It's only £47 / $77 and I wondered if it is worth it. Has anyone used or, or does anyone want to offer advice?

[Holistic Star]

Personally I think you would be better off working on your self-esteem issues rather than tricking women into bed with you.

If you read the game in its entirity you'll see that most of the men in the community weren't in the best and healthiest states of mind and found in the end the whole experience lacking in depth and the meaning that they were craving.

[Xanafax]

I see what your saying HS, but I don't think this is about tricking women.

Is it considered tricking the universe if you figure out the equation for gravity?

Or is it just a facilitator?

[Holistic Star]

It depends what you are doing it for. If it's just to get notches on your bedpost then I do think it is manipulative. If you are using lines 'hey did you see the fight outside' when there was no fight then it is tricking people.

Eliciting someone's highest values, repeating them back to them with the sole purpose of bedding them and walking away seems seedy whichever way you look at it.

I don't have a problem with people boosting self esteem, learning how to flirt, learning out to be more attractive to others etc when it is all about being their very best self. In fact I would positively encourage that.
But learning a 5 step process and using 'tried and tested' lines on people seems manipulative to me.

[Fullcrum]

I like RSD's stuff the best. You might want to check out Real Social Dynamics - Natural Tim for a well-updated blog by a true natural, Tim.

Also check out Flawless Natural Video Blog for free vids (not updated anymore but good content nonetheless), and his product, Real Social Dynamics - Flawless Natural Method.

His method's the natural way and about building a great physical and psychological state in your body (Woo) and combining it with sexual intent for a girl (intent). You're basically feeling super positive with no thoughts going off, and you channel it through your want for the girl, and use that as fuel to talk to girls. It's super effective and authentic.

I don't buy stuff from any other place. It's all I need, really. Though they won't really give you lines, they give you something better: a core fundamental understanding of how it all works and how to use the knowledge positively to leave women better than you found them.

You might enjoy Tyler's blog, too: Real Social Dynamics Blog

One of my fav. articles from there is this one on creating timeless work: Real Social Dynamics Blog: In The Trenches And Spiritual Furnace Of Artistry -- The Creation Of A True Classic

You might also enjoy this basic outer game overview (what to do): Real Social Dynamics Blog: Outer Game Extravaganza

This is all pulled straight out of my favorites from Google Reader (my RSS feed).

Definitely if you're aspiring to do this, take the ready fire aim approach and take action right away! Just feel good and start talking to girls. That's a good start .

[Xanafax]

Thats cool, I haven't looked at the sites, yet, I don't have enough time.

[Anand Dhillon]

I second Fullcrum's suggestions. And if you are willing to drop some cash, I recommend getting a copy of the Blueprint Decoded DVD program by RSD (it is $600 though). I think a book version of it will be coming out in a few months which should be more affordable.

Edit: Here are some preview videos you might want to check out
YouTube - The Blueprint Decoded - Day 1 Preview
YouTube - The Blueprint Decoded - Day 2 Preview
YouTube - The Blueprint Decoded - Day 3 Preview
YouTube - The Blueprint Decoded - Day 4 Preview

Also, I suggest reading Eckhart Tolle's books to learn to be present and spontaneous during interactions.

The most important thing is to get massive social experience under your belt. Strive for at least 10 hours of interacting with women for every hour you spend reading.

My #1 recommendation would be to do a 30 day trial where you approach 5 women a day.

[JavierFrancios]

Xanafax whats going on bro? RSD do have some cool things going on for

them. I purchased Flawless natural too; I learned a lot from it. I like

Charismaarts.com myself. In all of the diffrent 'methods' the end goal is to

have your own 'method' albeit natural, routine, ect. I hope you enjoy your

expiernce Bro... Timmy D is a bad a**

Ciao,

~Javier F.~

[Daniel Becerra]

Just remember: "The means don't dictate the ends"

Learning to meet women is such an awesome thing, what you do with what you learn is a complete different story. I'll quote Jim Rohn here:

"You must constantly ask yourself these questions. Who am I around? What are they doing to me? What have they got me reading? What have they got me saying? Where do they have me going? What do they have me thinking? And most important, what do they have me becoming? Then ask yourself the big question: Is that okay?

What I'm about to say is profound and while you may be able to understand it right now, you will not fully know the meaning of it due to lack of experience of the PUA field, but keep this in the back in your head. What you become of the art of learning to meet and seduce women can damage your life or it can enrich it. The sad point is, it is easier to damage it than it is to enrich it.

If you read the chapter in Napoleon Hill's book on sex, then you will get a better grasp on what I'm stating.

If you've been wondering about everything that I just wrote above... Yes, I speak from personal experience.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by Xanafax

I see what your saying HS, but I don't think this is about tricking women.

It is trickery and manipulation. Sorry, but that's how I see it. As a woman, I've gotten good at sensing the PUA act a mile away. I'd much rather see an honest-but-bungled attempt than some PUA who thinks he's smooth.

The more I see of this being taught, the more I am bothered. There are PUAs who teach men how to trick women into buying you gifts or giving you whatever you want. Trouble is none of it is based on the man respecting or caring for the woman. It's all about 'the game'.

The more you buy into it, the harder it might be to ever trust women. And without trust, the relationships of course are going to be shallow and meaningless, which just reinforces the PUA idea that women are only good for scoring with. Then the PUA wonders why relationships always feels so empty.

The big flaw with the PUA approach is that a guy gets into it thinking it'll help build his confidence with women. But each score is really a score for the 'act' not for him. Eventually he realizes that it is really just an act; it was never the real him the women were responding to all along.

Instead of the PUA stuff, why not stick to traditional relationship advice, body language books, and confidence building exercises?

[Jonathan Browne]

So you think there's a difference between "traditional advice" and PUA advice? The only difference is that PUA advice is more cutting edge.

It's all an act and a game. You think the "traditional advice" of giving woman gifts and flowers and diamonds that costs 3 months pay in order to "Win their heart" is being true to oneself?

If anything advanced PUA teaches you to be far more true to yourself than traditional advice. There is a reason it is effective. The only reason men "bumble" is because of fear and lack of confidence. In reality a man talking to a woman is the most natural thing in the world. It is in fact years of social conditioning and "Traditional advice"

[Cultivate]

Funchy, I entirely understand your viewpoint on PUAs because you see them as only being interested in sex. Obviously attracting the other gender is largely about sex... however, that doesn't necessarily mean that what they're about is trying to tag and bag women. There are ALOT of guys who are only in it to try and get tail and add another social notch to their belt, however, there are some people who are interested in pick up because they see it as another frontier for personal development, or they are trying to find someone who could be a potential long term partner. Becoming good at social interaction is the main focus of pick up, and is something very worth investing time into.

Having watched the blue print decoded I think you may be very surprised by what you would find there, Funchy. The PUA "guru" who ran the program has read echart tolle and has incorporated his teachings into what he believes. He has a healthy teaching that isn't about being something youre not to try to seduce women, but rather confidently being yourself to attract them. Its very focused on self confidence and being able to be real and move out of social conformity. Its very focused on liberating your mind and allowing yourself to act naturally and confidently.

I would just like to point out to all women who are negative towards this kind of thing, that women have been up to it for ages longer than men. Many women read cosmo/etc., talk with their friends about what works to attract guys, and wear make up to appear more youthful and prettier than they naturally are. Now, I know that all women do not do things like this (and just because the majority does it doesn't mean its right or healthy), but to me it just seems like the male form of what many girls do.

I will also agree with the idea of being VERY CAREFUL when deciding what materials you read and try to put into practice. Anything that seems to you like deception or manipulation probably isn't a good source. Anything that doesn't treat women like individuals or is about putting up some type of front to seduce women is equally unhealthy. If you do start lying and manipulating to get a woman's attraction #1 you won't feel good because you will know that they were attracted to someone who wasn't you and #2 you will start to suspect and distrust women because you will think that they are doing similar things.

[Scipio]

I don't think this thread is a place to discuss what you see are the potential deficits of the PUA skillset(which is a tool that can be either used or abused, and is not inherently negative), or how you personally want to label all people in the PUA community despite each individual having different motivations. I'd personally like to see a thread on the topic that is just advice and resources, as these rediculous arguments have been done all the time at this forum. If you want to voice them, do it in the other running threads.

If somebody asked "Where can I get knives?" would you reply with "Did you know knives can be used for killing"? Knives are a tool that can be used at the dinner table, for cutting boxes, or even for murder. Knives have no moral evaluation as such. Neither do PUA skills, which can be used to show your best self and nab the woman of your dreams, or to lie to women and use them.

[Xanafax]

Great idea Scipio.

I think I will start a thread now, still under personal effectiveness about PUA resources and Links, and any advice people want to give, I don't mind if it turns into a discussion, or even an argument, as long as there are some valuable resources in there!

[Holistic Star]

If someone says "I just love cooking, where can I get some good cutting tools,' that's one discusion.

If someone says, I've been seeing a psycopath and I have social stigma, and I want to buy some good cutting tools - don't you think that's another discussion.


This is a personal development board. You might see being a PUA as an aspect of personal development, but it isn't the whole of it. In fact in my experience it can be damaging if you aren't careful as many other people have posted. If you're starting from a low base, like dating psycopaths and having social stigma, you might not be in the best place to be choosing the stuff that is going to help you and the stuff which will damage you further. So I pointed out some other wider considerations, like sorting yourself out first, rather than stampeding towards getting notches on the bedpost.

The title of the thread was 'To become a PUA' - implying notches on the bedpost are the goal. If the title and content were around 'how can develop my best self' I'd have responded to the OP differently.



Oh - and I'll choose which threads I'll respond to and how, thankyou.

[Xanafax]

Holistic Star, I can assure you I am not a bedpost notch kind of person. And if I was what difference would it make? If I enjoyed myself, the girl enjoyed herself...what is the actual problem with that?

Why should I want to talk to girls solely to develop deep, emotional connections? Am I wrong if I want physical gratification?

[Holistic Star]

There's nothing wrong in wanted sex or enjoying it. There's nothing wrong with one-night stands so long as everyone is clear on what they are getting, and not getting.

What I'm saying is that in your first post you said you were 'ruined' by your previous relationships.

So in response to that, maybe the PUA stuff isn't the first road you should go down. You might want to look at who you were being to allow these people into your life. Are you aligning with truth, love and power in your life?

A lot of the PUA material is manipulative. If that's the route you want to go down, then go. Just don't be surprised if you feel worse in the long run, rather than better. I'm pleased to learn there is more ethical PUA stuff about becoming more attractive and being your best self.

I hope you find what you want. Just be clear about what it is you really do want.

[Xanafax]

Thank you Holistic Star, I think I understand you now.

[Holistic Star]

cool - I hope you find what you are looking for.

[Plato]

Manipulative relationships won't hurt you as long as it's clear in your head that all you want is control, validation, and power. Just don't have delusions about wanting love or connection and you'll be fine.

If you want meaningful connections RSD is the way forward from my experience. I've never heard of that company you posted so that sets off alarm bells for me straight away.

Also, you really don't need to pay for anything. There's more free material on the web than you could possibly read... if you know where to look.

[TonyToneTone]

Originally Posted by Xanafax

For some time I have had a back-of-the-mind interest in the PUA community, it's always been something I have wanted to learn, but I have never got around to it.

Bear in mind my experience with women so far has been one girl who only wanted to use me, and a psychopath (not legally diagnosed as such, but she is) who basically ruined me. I suffer from a social stigma that is the residue of my former self who wasn't very nice or popular. I am not doing too bad now, but you see what I mean.

In Steve's post on Polyamory he mentiones "The Game" well I looked it up on Amazon and one thing led to another and I found this:

PUA training

It's only £47 / $77 and I wondered if it is worth it. Has anyone used or, or does anyone want to offer advice?

The key to being a good PUA is about feeling good about yourself. If you can do that, you will attract all the relationships you need.

How do you feel about yourself? After that you can start using techniques and such. I personally like Paul Janka's stuff best: Paul Janka - Getting Laid in NYC - read here.. - PUA Reviews and Ratings

I've used it and it works.

[m18pak]

Dude, like Tonytonetone said, the PU field is vast, and there are more resources out there on the internet than you can possibly hope to read. You don't need to pay for anything.

I will just say one thing though. As humans we all have animal instincts formed by evolution; we all have a lower, carnal mind that runs the body. And obviously one of the main drives of this carnal mind is for sex. The thing is, however, that this drive, this desire, is an insatiable one. The body, the carnal mind, can never get enough sex, which means that if you allow your animal instincts to rule your life you will place yourself on a slide that keeps dragging you down further and further.
There is nothing inherently wrong with sex, but if you have sex purely for gratification of instinct then there's the danger of putting yourself on that slide, where your carnal mind will keep demanding more and more, and it will make your life miserable if you don't get it. There is actually the danger that the carnal mind, your lower instincts, can overpower the conscious, human you.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that you need to be sure of what you want in life - what you want out of PU. I get the feeling that you are doing this as a reactive response to your circumstances, and indeed, most PUAs did start out this way. We did it because we were terrible with women, because we couldn't get sex, because it was humiliating to feel like a failure with women, because we felt inferior compared to other men etc etc (I'm not sure if that's necessarily the case with you but that is the impression I'm getting). The danger with this is that you'll come to see PU as an end in itself; because if you actually do get good with women and actually reach the point where you are able to get sex and attention from women, then it can become a sort of addiction.

[Corey]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

I like RSD's stuff the best. You might want to check out Real Social Dynamics - Natural Tim for a well-updated blog by a true natural, Tim.

Also check out Flawless Natural Video Blog for free vids (not updated anymore but good content nonetheless), and his product, Real Social Dynamics - Flawless Natural Method.

His method's the natural way and about building a great physical and psychological state in your body (Woo) and combining it with sexual intent for a girl (intent). You're basically feeling super positive with no thoughts going off, and you channel it through your want for the girl, and use that as fuel to talk to girls. It's super effective and authentic.

I don't buy stuff from any other place. It's all I need, really. Though they won't really give you lines, they give you something better: a core fundamental understanding of how it all works and how to use the knowledge positively to leave women better than you found them.

You might enjoy Tyler's blog, too: Real Social Dynamics Blog

One of my fav. articles from there is this one on creating timeless work: Real Social Dynamics Blog: In The Trenches And Spiritual Furnace Of Artistry -- The Creation Of A True Classic

You might also enjoy this basic outer game overview (what to do): Real Social Dynamics Blog: Outer Game Extravaganza

This is all pulled straight out of my favorites from Google Reader (my RSS feed).

Definitely if you're aspiring to do this, take the ready fire aim approach and take action right away! Just feel good and start talking to girls. That's a good start .

Eh......RSD may have great ideals but they're closedminded to the core when someone comes on their boards and doesn't believe them. I got banned from there because they thought I was a troll (you can thank....*drum roll*....*moar drum rolls*......Jeffy >_>) because I actually questioned them and didn't believe them. Other than them, I can't really say anything about any of the other companies as I haven't viewed their material. Based on my only experience, the seduction community comes off as kind of sexist.

[garentee]

RSD has some really good stuff , and some really sexist stuff.... I see a lot of narcisissm on there...But if you have the patience to sift through a lot of BS there is a lot of insight which is very helpful.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Corey

(you can thank....*drum roll*....*moar drum rolls*......Jeffy >_>).

Well if you will spell more "moar"... people are going to suspect the worst. :P

[TonyToneTone]

Relationships (Part 5) | Tony Tells All

I did a 5 part write-up on relationships. Hopefully it will help.

[Fullcrum]

RSD's narcissism is to be viewed in a humorous light. That goes double for Jeffy. At their core they are men on their purpose, doing what they love and helping people grow.

The knowledge about state they've dissected and packaged is incredible. Simply incredible. Manage your emotional state and you're golden. They show you how to do it from real experience. Damn, if that's not value I do not know what is.

[Corey]

RSD's narcissism is to be viewed in a humorous light. That goes double for Jeffy.

LOLZZ, they honestly had me fooled there if thats the case.

and helping people grow.

Erm....=/.....I guess if being a thickheaded closedminded individual towards others is helping then, I suppose so.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by Fullcrum

RSD's narcissism is to be viewed in a humorous light. That goes double for Jeffy. At their core they are men on their purpose, doing what they love and helping people grow.

The knowledge about state they've dissected and packaged is incredible. Simply incredible. Manage your emotional state and you're golden. They show you how to do it from real experience. Damn, if that's not value I do not know what is.

The narcissism I see there ESPECIALLY from Jeffy is anything but funny.. I know quite a few women who have narcissistic parents and the amount of pain and invalidation that that sort of mind set causes is damaging beyond belief. I find that you can be on your purpose, but if you are a narcissist you treat others as being inferior and nobody knows as well as you do because you are never wrong. I find that this does not teach men to be the best they can be, it teaches men to be confident and thats it... It does not teach people that women are not objects.. they are people.... RSD is really sharp at marketing....and that is a good thing.. for them.

[Magicinthenight]

Originally Posted by Xanafax

For some time I have had a back-of-the-mind interest in the PUA community, it's always been something I have wanted to learn, but I have never got around to it.

Bear in mind my experience with women so far has been one girl who only wanted to use me, and a psychopath (not legally diagnosed as such, but she is) who basically ruined me. I suffer from a social stigma that is the residue of my former self who wasn't very nice or popular. I am not doing too bad now, but you see what I mean.

In Steve's post on Polyamory he mentiones "The Game" well I looked it up on Amazon and one thing led to another and I found this:

PUA training

It's only £47 / $77 and I wondered if it is worth it. Has anyone used or, or does anyone want to offer advice?

Well you did ask for advice and although your advice was geared towards the PUA field, I'm quite sure that as a woman I can give you advice you won't get from that field.

From what you write, you're still coming to terms with your relationship past. I'm sorry to hear you had bad experiences. The best way to be open to a new relationship, however, is to let go of those past experiences.

Forgive the former partners and forgive the person you were. You're no longer that person, you've had the chance to grow and evolve and learn from what happened in those relationships.

As for how to attract women: it's quite simple really. ALL people are attracted to people who a)value themselves b)value other people and who show this in their actions and the way they think.

If you feel you absolutely need to use some form of guidelines and strategies to get closer to women, of course you can go ahead and do that. But the easiest way to get people to really open up and care for you is to do the same in return.

If you believe you're worthy of being loved and you believe other people are worthy of being loved and you show those beliefs in your actions, you can't fail in finding a partner. (Oh and getting out there and meeting people in different situations always helps. The best pick up line ever: "Hi, my name is ________, what's yours").

Also, being genuinely interested in the other person never hurt.

Good luck, hope it works out for you.