Do you have an answer for me?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I've got something weighing on me right now that I am hoping I can get some perspective on here.

BF and I have been having a tough time lately and I was getting on his case a lot. He was withdrawing. We were both fairly miserable. Anyway, he went to a family get together with us uncertain of what we'd do next. The next day (which brings us to yesterday) he came home and we began talking about what we would do. In the course of our talking, he admitted something to me that I have suspected for the last two years. There are even old threads here from when the original event took place. He kissed another girl (he says that is all that happened) those two years ago. At the time I knew things were horrible between us and that something like that was most likely going on. I heard rumors. But I never had the confirmation until now.

I just don't know what to do now. On the one hand I'm relieved that he has finally told me himself the truth of what happened. He said that he has been praying for us to be able to work things out and that God had told him that for us to move forward he'd have to tell me the truth and if I left him so be it. He said that at the time I had been always questioning his fidelity, we'd been fighting, not intimate and he just wanted to feel loved and special. The thing is, as much as the thought that this happened has hurt for 2 years, as much as it hurts now having to face that it is true, I don't really blame him. Things were horrible then.

I haven't left. I don't really want to. But right now I don't feel like there is anything he can do to make me trust him now (some of the issues we've been dealing with recently are my continued distrust of him, that stems from my own insecurity and those events I was fairly sure happened two years ago). And there isn't. It has to be a choice I make. He says that he has changed and he doesn't consider that an option anymore when things are hard. And in that I feel he's being sincere because his response to any conflict we have now is to come to me and try to work through it. I can see that he's made changes and is working on himself, but right now I just feel so heartbroken and not good enough. I am not sure what to do now. Can anyone advise me? I guess I just need to know what others have done in a similar situation. I feel like I want him to hurt as much as I do, but I really don't want that. I don't want to stay if I'm just going to keep both of us hurting longer. I want to try to work it out, but I don't know how. I've had a tight pain in my chest, I can't think straight, I cry at intervals, am now having trouble focusing at work so writing to you all instead.

I know you smarties have got something for me. So let me have it.

[joelyle]

Hi,

Happy New Year! Sorry to see you are at an impasse in your relationship. I am always curious what the basis/foundation of a relationship is? What is it that brought you together....some passion you share? In my way of thinking an affair is more about allegiance than physical activity (I say this from personal experience). Do you feel your passions are multiplied (or divided) by being with him. I am not sure one indiscretion constitutes bad faith. Can you be yourself with him or must you become someone else? Take care. Thanks for your contribution to these forums.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

He said that at the time I had been always questioning his fidelity, we'd been fighting, not intimate and he just wanted to feel loved and special.

Do you remember how you and I used to talk about how you were actually creating his infidelity, LOA-style, with all your worry that he was cheating on you? It's practically all you thought about. You are so powerful! At that time, you were not so concerned about building a loving, long-term, mutually beneficial relationship, although you were convinced that you were. Mostly, you were totally overtaken by the FEAR of being in a LLTMBR, the fear that you would be abandoned, the fear that you would come face-to-face with your nothingness -- you were diligently looking for evidence that you were nothing. Remember?

And only now do you get "confirmation" that this thing happened -- NOW, after you have been boldly, courageously, and tirelessly working on uncovering to yourself the infinite joy, love, abundance, freedom, power, and generosity that you generate, regardless of external circumstance. NOW you are standing in success, and you can look back with joy at how far you have come, and be grateful to yourself and also to him for making this journey with you. Remember how crazed you were? And look at yourself now. If you want to go back to being crazed, that's fine, but is that really what will satisfy and fulfill you? Remember how selfish and immature he was, and how far he's come with you? He's now at a point where he's willing to tell you truth about what happened, and if it means you leave, that's fine -- he NEVER would have done that back then, would he? He would have totally manipulated the situation to his benefit, to avoid being abandoned. Now he feels good in your relationship, and he is doing his best to do what's right for himself, for you, and for the relationship.

So, what will you do? You have a golden opportunity to find out how generous and loving you can be -- this time from a more advanced perspective. Will you let go of the past, and move forward in a loving relationship? That may mean therapy or something else you need to help build trust again (not that you ever had any ). Will you thank him for being honest with you, and look inside yourself for the truth of how you practically engineered his unfaithfulness? Will you make a commitment to yourself and to him to honoring your relationship as a place of freedom and love, a place where you are both safe to be honest with each other? Will you boldly make requests of him of the actions you want him to take so that you feel safe (e.g., therapy)? Or will you recognize that you're not willing or able to build trust for him, and let him go with love? You could, of course, just meander along in the relationship and hope things get better without taking anything on in yourself -- that would be a valid choice. But I don't think that's what you're up to.

I am on pins and needles.

[RT Wolf]

Doesn't sound like you need advice, you just need to vent to someone who's willing to listen without necessarily giving you advice. Listen empathically and compassionately. If you know someone like that, please go to them immediately. You don't even have to talk, you can just cry on their shoulder and if they're good, they'll let you until you're ready to talk.

I can empathize with you. You're feeling betrayed and hurt. And you're still in control. You may not have the skill to handle all this right now, but you're still in control and you can make choices about how you're feeling about this and how you frame this to yourself.

Still, advice-wise I can only offer the following:

About what he can do to earn your trust again...well, that's something you'll have to decide now: either you trust him or you don't. There's no "proof" he can offer necessarily, except not doing something like that every single day. However, if you don't trust him, you'll always be asking, "he may not have done it yet, but what if he does it tomorrow?" and there will always be a tomorrow. So, you can choose to either trust him or you don't. You may get hurt again if you trust him, and you can handle it. I suggest you come back and read this later, when you've had a chance to share your emotions and, in a sense, let them go.

Whether you stay with him or not, and whether you have other relationships in the future, you've learned something, too. Set clear limits at the start of a relationship, and stick by them.

Good luck! I wish you well from the bottom of my heart. I've had a friend go through this sort of thing and its rough, and you're stronger for it when its over, either way, if you choose to be.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

you can handle it.

That is so true.

There is nothing that has happened or may happen in the future that can diminish you. Nothing he says, does, thinks or omits means anything about Who You Are. You are expanding, and you will handle it.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by joelyle

Hi,

Happy New Year! Sorry to see you are at an impasse in your relationship. I am always curious what the basis/foundation of a relationship is? What is it that brought you together....some passion you share? In my way of thinking an affair is more about allegiance than physical activity (I say this from personal experience). Do you feel your passions are multiplied (or divided) by being with him. I am not sure one indiscretion constitutes bad faith. Can you be yourself with him or must you become someone else? Take care. Thanks for your contribution to these forums.

I don't think we started out the best way. We were both there, there was attraction, we jumped in. Neither of us was ready for it or truly available for a LLTMBR. But I think that's where we are actually headed now surprisingly enough.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Let me tell you that it's so amazing to be able to talk about this here, with people I love, who I know have my best interest at heart, who will not sugar coat and who know all the history, know me and won't let me be less than I can.

Originally Posted by Angela

Do you remember how you and I used to talk about how you were actually creating his infidelity, LOA-style, with all your worry that he was cheating on you? It's practically all you thought about. You are so powerful! At that time, you were not so concerned about building a loving, long-term, mutually beneficial relationship, although you were convinced that you were. Mostly, you were totally overtaken by the FEAR of being in a LLTMBR, the fear that you would be abandoned, the fear that you would come face-to-face with your nothingness -- you were diligently looking for evidence that you were nothing. Remember?

I've been trying to forget that, thank you very much

But sincerely, I still feel that way a lot of the time. I still fear it (no matter what I boldly proclaim in other threads about having no fears). I still fear that he will "cheat" again, or is now doing so. I've got to get this under control. Because I did create it and I don't want to do it again.

Originally Posted by Angela

And only now do you get "confirmation" that this thing happened -- NOW, after you have been boldly, courageously, and tirelessly working on uncovering to yourself the infinite joy, love, abundance, freedom, power, and generosity that you generate, regardless of external circumstance. NOW you are standing in success, and you can look back with joy at how far you have come, and be grateful to yourself and also to him for making this journey with you. Remember how crazed you were? And look at yourself now. If you want to go back to being crazed, that's fine, but is that really what will satisfy and fulfill you? Remember how selfish and immature he was, and how far he's come with you? He's now at a point where he's willing to tell you truth about what happened, and if it means you leave, that's fine -- he NEVER would have done that back then, would he? He would have totally manipulated the situation to his benefit, to avoid being abandoned. Now he feels good in your relationship, and he is doing his best to do what's right for himself, for you, and for the relationship.

I was extremely crazed. And there was a time period yesterday when I thought I would become so again and not recover. But he was right that I knew it all along, and I've already been punishing him by not letting it go for TWO YEARS. I don't want to drag this out any further. It feels like a fresh wound, but I really got no new information, only confirmation.

I did thank him for being honest with me. I think I surprised both of us with that one. But I am still going over and over what he said in my head and looking for inconsistencies. Sign that I am not focusing on the right part of this equation.

Originally Posted by Angela

So, what will you do? You have a golden opportunity to find out how generous and loving you can be -- this time from a more advanced perspective. Will you let go of the past, and move forward in a loving relationship? That may mean therapy or something else you need to help build trust again (not that you ever had any ). Will you thank him for being honest with you, and look inside yourself for the truth of how you practically engineered his unfaithfulness? Will you make a commitment to yourself and to him to honoring your relationship as a place of freedom and love, a place where you are both safe to be honest with each other? Will you boldly make requests of him of the actions you want him to take so that you feel safe (e.g., therapy)? Or will you recognize that you're not willing or able to build trust for him, and let him go with love? You could, of course, just meander along in the relationship and hope things get better without taking anything on in yourself -- that would be a valid choice. But I don't think that's what you're up to.

I am on pins and needles.

I want to take on the commitment to myself and to him to work this out. I know that doing nothing will not produce the results I want. I thanked him for his honesty. And I know that I pushed him right into her lips, I may as well have been there cheering them on (while crying of course).

The point I am at is deciding whether I can choose to trust him or whether I should let go. I want to trust him and make it work, but I know that for me is a monumental task. I feel like I could benefit from some type of therapy. But what I don't know is what I ask of him. I don't know what he could do to help me feel safe because it seems from past experience that it's not really based on anything he does anyway. I want to try to figure out what to do when I go home today, not so much a decision to stay or go, but a path of action that assumes I'm staying and what to do next in light of that.

Thank you for helping me.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

Doesn't sound like you need advice, you just need to vent to someone who's willing to listen without necessarily giving you advice. Listen empathically and compassionately. If you know someone like that, please go to them immediately. You don't even have to talk, you can just cry on their shoulder and if they're good, they'll let you until you're ready to talk.

I am blessed to have a few people that will fill this role for me in a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

I can empathize with you. You're feeling betrayed and hurt. And you're still in control. You may not have the skill to handle all this right now, but you're still in control and you can make choices about how you're feeling about this and how you frame this to yourself.

One of the most amazing things to realize is that I am feeling very bad about this, but I'm ok. That's an advancement for me and I hope to figure out how I'll frame it and what I can do next with you fine people.

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

About what he can do to earn your trust again...well, that's something you'll have to decide now: either you trust him or you don't. There's no "proof" he can offer necessarily, except not doing something like that every single day. However, if you don't trust him, you'll always be asking, "he may not have done it yet, but what if he does it tomorrow?" and there will always be a tomorrow. So, you can choose to either trust him or you don't. You may get hurt again if you trust him, and you can handle it. I suggest you come back and read this later, when you've had a chance to share your emotions and, in a sense, let them go.

That's true. And I will read it again. But even now I know this is right and it's the main "problem" I am struggling with: "Can I (am I willing?) to choose to trust him and not make our lives a living hell?"

Originally Posted by RT Wolf

Whether you stay with him or not, and whether you have other relationships in the future, you've learned something, too. Set clear limits at the start of a relationship, and stick by them.

Good luck! I wish you well from the bottom of my heart. I've had a friend go through this sort of thing and its rough, and you're stronger for it when its over, either way, if you choose to be.

True, true.

Thank you.

[Angela]

Hey, Aspiring, do you happen to have a copy of The Astonishing Power of Emotions? check out Chapter 29 (today is the 29th) "My lover left me." It's not a perfect match for your situation, because your guy has not left you, but I think you might find some insight in there, some sense of direction, and maybe even some comfort.

Do you know why I think so? Can you guess?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

Hey, Aspiring, do you happen to have a copy of The Astonishing Power of Emotions? check out Chapter 29 (today is the 29th) "My lover left me." It's not a perfect match for your situation, because your guy has not left you, but I think you might find some insight in there, some sense of direction, and maybe even some comfort.

Do you know why I think so? Can you guess?

I don't have it, but I may be able to get it at the library so I'll check that pasasge out.

Is this what you are dealing with now? And this helped you? I hope it's not so, but that would be my guess. If I'm right then I am so sorry and I hug you a thousand times and then some more. And if I'm wrong, I'm sorry for even thinking it since my powers of manifestation are so powerful.

I love you.

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

but right now I just feel so heartbroken and not good enough.

I don't think that this has anything to do with the cheating. It's not trust of your BF that you're having trouble with, it's trust of yourself and your own worth. Even if you leave him, you will forever be open to the same pain of somebody else devaluing you.

You will NEVER find a human being that does not have the potential to cheat as a part of their being. That's the curse of humans being such powerful beings; the more we can do, the more we can do wrong. There is no potential for trust without potential for betrayal. What you need is not so much trust that your BF will never again cheat on you, but trust that you will not lose one iota of value if he does. Otherwise you will always be afraid of his ability to cheat, whether or not it ever manifests as a reality. He probably feels kind of like one of those mutants from X-men; he was born with all these dangerous powers, and is constantly being monitored just because he could be dangerous. It doesn't matter to the monitors whether or not he will, just that he might.

For you, he has become not a person, but rather a force that must be kept in check to prevent harm to yourself. You've reduced a human being to a single concept out of fear. What you need is not trust that he will not harm you, but trust that you will not be harmed even if he does .

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by The Cloud

I don't think that this has anything to do with the cheating. It's not trust of your BF that you're having trouble with, it's trust of yourself and your own worth. Even if you leave him, you will forever be open to the same pain of somebody else devaluing you.

You will NEVER find a human being that does not have the potential to cheat as a part of their being. That's the curse of humans being such powerful beings; the more we can do, the more we can do wrong. There is no potential for trust without potential for betrayal. What you need is not so much trust that your BF will never again cheat on you, but trust that you will not lose one iota of value if he does. Otherwise you will always be afraid of his ability to cheat, whether or not it ever manifests as a reality. He probably feels kind of like one of those mutants from X-men; he was born with all these dangerous powers, and is constantly being monitored just because he could be dangerous. It doesn't matter to the monitors whether or not he will, just that he might.

For you, he has become not a person, but rather a force that must be kept in check to prevent harm to yourself. You've reduced a human being to a single concept out of fear. What you need is not trust that he will not harm you, but trust that you will not be harmed even if you are .

Cloud, I can always count on your frank wisdom (and always wish I'd been so smart at your age, heck even now!).

I really like your X-men mutant comparison...very appropriate and really brings the point home. I haven't related to him as a person in three years, except for some moments when I've actually let my guard down. It's not easy to admit that, but I think it's really true. All the things I've been feeling I can imagine he feels too because I have not really connected.

I'm going to come back and read this one a few times as well so it can really sink in.

Thank you.

[Angela]

Yup. The question has nothing to do with him. The question is: Can I be trusted? Am I willing to trust myself to handle what happens, whatever happens? Am I willing to be a present player, an improv artist, a participant in a game that inspires me?

It's amazing to me that this whole year the theme for me has been all about Trust, and now this crisis -- this major crossroad -- magically manifests for me so that I can deal powerfully with Trust in a way that makes a huge difference right here right now, or not, just in time for the New Year, which is oh so satisfying to my little ocd self. And you, my Magical Mirror Buddy, are standing here in front of me saying, "Look, Angela, LOOK. I am you and you are me and if you say I will handle it, if you tell me that I am infinite joy, abundance, and power, then I'm rubber and you're glue, girl." Thank you, thank you, thank you for showing me that it all boils down to one question:

Am I willing, or not?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

Yup. The question has nothing to do with him. The question is: Can I be trusted? Am I willing to trust myself to handle what happens, whatever happens? Am I willing to be a present player, an improv artist, a participant in a game that inspires me?

It's amazing to me that this whole year the theme for me has been all about Trust, and now this crisis -- this major crossroad -- magically manifests for me so that I can deal powerfully with Trust in a way that makes a huge difference right here right now, or not, just in time for the New Year, which is oh so satisfying to my little ocd self. And you, my Magical Mirror Buddy, are standing here in front of me saying, "Look, Angela, LOOK. I am you and you are me and if you say I will handle it, if you tell me that I am infinite joy, abundance, and power, then I'm rubber and you're glue, girl." Thank you, thank you, thank you for showing me that it all boils down to one question:

Am I willing, or not?

Wait one second, I thought you were showing me!?

I'm sure that you orchestrated this game for yourself just to show you how powerful you really are and to bring it home once and for all that you are amazing and wonderful and can Trust yourself all the way (just next time leave my relationship out of it -- sorry, awkward attempt at humor)

I have realized that I am willing. I have decided. What about you? And how can we help each other through the process?

[Angela]

You know something? This morning I was thinking about what is my heart's desire for the New Year, and I realized that it is CLARITY. Isn't that funny?

I started thinking about all the inspired actions and signposts of Clarity that I'd like to take on, things like:

* giving away or selling things that are not beautiful or useful
* committing to writing one clear blog post each day
* shining through this fog that has been surrounding me (somehow)
* being a crystal clear communicator in my relationships
* being clear with myself about my boundaries and desires
* cleaning out my bathroom drain

...and to the top of the list goes this one incredibly brilliant task I'm setting for myself for 2009

* When there's an issue, boil it down to the most salient question, with velocity.

And now that I've distinguished the question here, rather than just jump right in with the answer, as is my usual habit, I'm going to give myself the gift of allowing it to percolate inside me, and ask myself for my clearest inner truth in the matter, free of shoulds or stress or debt. It feels like a fine gift.

It also feels like there's a good cry in here waiting for me to take it off its leash.

Aspiring, I am so, so, so grateful for your friendship. I wish I could show you how huge is my gratitude. Like, with a pony or something.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Angela

You know something? This morning I was thinking about what is my heart's desire for the New Year, and I realized that it is CLARITY. Isn't that funny?

I started thinking about all the inspired actions and signposts of Clarity that I'd like to take on, things like:

* giving away or selling things that are not beautiful or useful
* committing to writing one clear blog post each day
* shining through this fog that has been surrounding me (somehow)
* being a crystal clear communicator in my relationships
* being clear with myself about my boundaries and desires
* cleaning out my bathroom drain

...and to the top of the list goes this one incredibly brilliant task I'm setting for myself for 2009

* When there's an issue, boil it down to the most salient question, with velocity.

And now that I've distinguished the question here, rather than just jump right in with the answer, as is my usual habit, I'm going to give myself the gift of allowing it to percolate inside me, and ask myself for my clearest inner truth in the matter, free of shoulds or stress or debt. It feels like a fine gift.

It also feels like there's a good cry in here waiting for me to take it off its leash.

Aspiring, I am so, so, so grateful for your friendship. I wish I could show you how huge is my gratitude. Like, with a pony or something.

I don't have any room in my yard for a pony . I feel like I should be the one getting someone a pony! I don't know if you realize that you've basically been my source of clarity since I've met you, but HELLO! It's ATC calling, is anyone home?

I really like your inspired actions for 2009. I think I'll steal some of those.

Have a good cry, they aren't called good cries for nothing. Then take your time in answering the question. I think that's a fantastic idea.

I appreciate you always being here to clarify for me what questions I should () be asking. I never noticed your light being dull despite the fog you're hanging out in! I think it's something wrong with your eyes, not your light.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I have realized that I am willing. I have decided. What about you? And how can we help each other through the process?

There are costs involved, don't forget. Have you considered the price you'll pay for trusting yourself? Are you sure you're willing to pay it?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Maybe I need an accounting of the costs before I decide for sure...

I don't know what I'll face as a result of trusting myself. What's going to happen?!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Maybe I need an accounting of the costs before I decide for sure...

I don't know what I'll face as a result of trusting myself. What's going to happen?!

I'm thinking about that. I'd like to know what you come up with, too, because I'm pretty sure we have costs in common, and there's nothing like the synergy of two loving cooperators, is there?

1. It will be scary -- there will be times we'll have to trust ourselves in the dark, when it smells bad, when the unknown looms like a monster in front of us. Do not minimize this price -- you and I are both scaredy cats about scariness.
   
2. We may get hurt -- no, wait -- we probably WILL get hurt. Are we willing to trust ourselves in the face of almost certain pain? Will we forget about our commitment because avoiding pain is more important? (again, you and I are both big paindy-cats.)
   
3. We will encounter perceived obstacles, and some of them may be pretty uncomfortable. Like, for instance, someone (maybe yourself, maybe someone else) telling you you're crazy and wrong and stupid. Are we willing to keep our word and continue to trust ourselves, even if (when) it means people think we are crazy and wrong and stupid?
   
4. We will be faced with really, really difficult decisions, there is no doubt, and we won't be able to rely on others to make them for us. We won't have the loophole of waiting for a man to leave us so we don't have to leave him. We will no longer have the luxury of indulging in the freeze response when we are faced with inauthentic danger. That's one I'll miss, I don't know about you.
   
5. When we commit to trusting ourselves, you can bet your boots that we will be called into dynamic action, and we can't be lazy or evasive or rationalizing about answering that call. Well, we could be, but we would be breaking our word. Why make the commitment in the first place if we're already giving ourselves an out?

...Any you can think of?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

That is a pretty penny!

You're right, I don't like the scary or the painful any more than you do. But here I am dealing with them anyway. I think dealing with them head-on, in the face of a commitment to trust ourselves will give us a discount on the cost, no? I mean, right now I'm scared and in pain, but all that's underneath it is more fear and pain. If I am commited to trusting myself, I'll have a reason and an outlet from the scary pain. Maybe?

Let's see, what other costs?

*We may lose people from our lives who like us scared and in pain and not trusting ourselves.

*We'll face situations where we have to put the commitment into action, and the bigger the commitment, the hairier the situations (but I think you already said this really).

*We'll have to be bold. People who trust themselves aren't timid or anxious all the time. The make decisions and take action. I usually prefer to think about it until it's too late to make a decision and act or until things have fallen down around me while I was in my head.

I bet there are a lot more. I think this one is worth it, but I'm still going to look at these costs again and see if I'm really ready to take this on.

If you or I think of any more costs, let's post them here, ok? Maybe some other people can benefit too?

Originally Posted by Angela

I'm thinking about that. I'd like to know what you come up with, too, because I'm pretty sure we have costs in common, and there's nothing like the synergy of two loving cooperators, is there?

1. It will be scary -- there will be times we'll have to trust ourselves in the dark, when it smells bad, when the unknown looms like a monster in front of us. Do not minimize this price -- you and I are both scaredy cats about scariness.
   
2. We may get hurt -- no, wait -- we probably WILL get hurt. Are we willing to trust ourselves in the face of almost certain pain? Will we forget about our commitment because avoiding pain is more important? (again, you and I are both big paindy-cats.)
   
3. We will encounter perceived obstacles, and some of them may be pretty uncomfortable. Like, for instance, someone (maybe yourself, maybe someone else) telling you you're crazy and wrong and stupid. Are we willing to keep our word and continue to trust ourselves, even if (when) it means people think we are crazy and wrong and stupid?
   
4. We will be faced with really, really difficult decisions, there is no doubt, and we won't be able to rely on others to make them for us. We won't have the loophole of waiting for a man to leave us so we don't have to leave him. We will no longer have the luxury of indulging in the freeze response when we are faced with inauthentic danger. That's one I'll miss, I don't know about you.
   
5. When we commit to trusting ourselves, you can bet your boots that we will be called into dynamic action, and we can't be lazy or evasive or rationalizing about answering that call. Well, we could be, but we would be breaking our word. Why make the commitment in the first place if we're already giving ourselves an out?

...Any you can think of?

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Maybe I need an accounting of the costs before I decide for sure...

I don't know what I'll face as a result of trusting myself. What's going to happen?!

For one thing, you'll never have any problems to solve because you'll know that you will never make a wrong move. A world without problems is a world without solutions. Can you bear that?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by The Cloud

For one thing, you'll never have any problems to solve because you'll know that you will never make a wrong move. A world without problems is a world without solutions. Can you bear that?

That's definitely a tough one!

I've recently found (and mostly everyone who knows me will say DUH!) that I enjoy having problems. Because I like to think about them and figure them out. Only I don't...figure them out that is. I think it would be hard at first to live in a world where I had to give that up. But in the end I think it would be fabulous.

[The Cloud]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

Only I don't...figure them out that is.

Yeah, when I really think about it, I realize that I don't even want to solve my problems. I don't even know what the solution would look like, and doubt that there even is one. Like "what is the meaning of life?". I don't know, and honestly I don't care, yet I spent so much of my time agonizing over it as if I did.

For example, if you could make your BF unable to betray you, would you? I'd bet not. You don't want a solution to your problem with him, you just want to have an old bone to chew on. You know that the answer to your problem doesn't really exist, and you wouldn't take it if it did. It is only his ability to cheat that makes him so worthwhile when he doesn't. You can keep your problems, but don't pretend that you would care for the solutions. You wouldn't.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by The Cloud

Yeah, when I really think about it, I realize that I don't even want to solve my problems. I don't even know what the solution would look like, and doubt that there even is one. Like "what is the meaning of life?". I don't know, and honestly I don't care, yet I spent so much of my time agonizing over it as if I did.

For example, if you could make your BF unable to betray you, would you? I'd bet not. You don't want a solution to your problem with him, you just want to have an old bone to chew on. You know that the answer to your problem doesn't really exist, and you wouldn't take it if it did. It is only his ability to cheat that makes him so worthwhile when he doesn't. You can keep your problems, but don't pretend that you would care for the solutions. You wouldn't.

So right yet again.

[thesecretlaws]

you just have to do what you feel is right. dont stay in a relationship you know is doomed to fail. if you truly care about him and see a future, then work it out and hope that he is telling the truth.

[legend]

It sounds to me like you have given two years of life away to this kiss.....
How much more are you willing to lose?
Stop thinking, analyzing, beating yourself up.....
Make a decision NOW....
From what I hear you want to forgive him, trust him and move on
so DO IT....
Make a decision let the past go....
Guess what you can make a different decision tomorrow, next week, or in the next second....
You can not predict the future no one can so lets look at what we do know
1. He made a mistake
2. He didn't tell you out of fear, embarrassment, pride, or not wanting to hurt you
3. He told you now
4. He wants to have an exclusive relationship with you
Let's see what this tells us about you? nothing
about him? he makes mistakes and has not developed the character to take the consequences.... sounds like he is working on that
about if he will do it again? nothing
about if you will one day do the same to him? nothing

Everyone has bad yesterdays..... and the lucky ones will have a tomorrow that may or may not be bad.....

So enjoy the today.... take him by the hand,,, Love him,,, set yourself free from the pain by understanding this was 100% him there is nothing you could have done differently that would have changed this.... set him free from the pain by telling him you are going to have one last and final discussion about this and at the end it will never be brought up again.... tell him everything you feel.... about your insecurity... about your love for him... about you wanting to trust him and your struggle.... let that be the last second you waste on this kiss....
tell him he needs to understand, that is not the type relationship you are willing to be a part of and if it ever happens again you will have to take separate paths on your journey through life....
He feels guilty......
He feels like crap or else he would not be talking to God about it all...

This stone is too heavy to carry one minute longer.... I don't know how you carried it this long. Put it down and walk on


Much Love

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

That was a great post, Legend. Thank you, thank you. I also can't believe that I've wasted so much time on this. I'm getting to the point where I am ready to put it down. I know that we'll have no future if I hold this over both our heads. and your analysis of what this tells us is good too.

I'm going to re-read all of these great posts. Thanks again.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I'm about to head out and my internet at home is down so I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone and thanks to those of you who will post after this. I'll be back when I can.

Thanks a million again!

[Angela]

Originally Posted by legend

set him free from the pain by telling him you are going to have one last and final discussion about this and at the end it will never be brought up again.

...yeah, I'm not so sure about that part. His being available to talk to you about it when you are beset by anxiety might be one of those things I was talking about earlier when I mentioned actions you require of him in order to participate in the healing process. It's like a good faith exercise -- is he willing to take on your request? If he's not, then you'll know you're in this healing thing alone, and you can make choices about your relationship with that knowledge.

The thing is, as boldly as you may choose to trust again, there will likely be times in your future together that you wake up in the middle of the night freaked out, or you have a sudden jolt of pain when you run into the other woman, etc. If you've made a promise to him (and to yourself) never to bring up the situation again, you've made yourself a pretty uncomfortable bed to lie in, one that in my opinion is not reasonable and not conducive to healing.

When you say, "we'll never speak of this again," the subject tends to burn and glow like Pure Evil in the darkness of your psyche. You always have us here, and your girlfriends, to work through the bulk of your lesson -- you don't have to load it all up on him -- but to declare a Vow of Silence in the matter is to sentence yourself to feeling unheard and unknown. Creating that for yourself would be like wearing a big sign around your neck that you see every time you look in the mirror, and it reads: "I am Nothing."

[dancer]

Originally Posted by Angela

When you say, "we'll never speak of this again," the subject tends to burn and glow like Pure Evil in the darkness of your psyche. You always have us here, and your girlfriends, to work through the bulk of your lesson -- you don't have to load it all up on him -- but to declare a Vow of Silence in the matter is to sentence yourself to feeling unheard and unknown. Creating that for yourself would be like wearing a big sign around your neck that you see every time you look in the mirror, and it reads: "I am Nothing."

"I am Nothing", is 100% your own thought, therefore, isn't it your business? When he kissed another was his intention to tell you: you are nothing?

You are right, feelings will come up, but from my own experience, discussions kept the event alive. Acceptance. Not easy, but this does lead to silence - trust, forgiveness and love.