Men and The Thrill of the Chase

[geekchic9]

I've made a too-common observation that my man prefers to pursue me and doesn't reward me initiating any type of social contact. He takes his time calling me back, for example. If I want to go out on a certain day, he's not sure. But if I ignore him for a few days, he misses me and calls me all the time and wants to see me in person ASAP. At one point, I felt confused about how I felt about him, so I went out on dates with a couple of other guys -- my guy and I weren't exclusive at that point and he knew about it. Suddenly, he started proclaiming his love for me and wanted to be a couple. Whoa!

Now, don't get me wrong: I think my guy is overall a good person, otherwise I wouldn't be dating him at all. And he seems very sincere about his feelings for me. In fact, I even wonder if he's consciously aware about what he's doing. In fact, we had a conversation about how my mom attracted my dad, and he said he didn't go for that sort of thing. I think if I pointed it out to him (probably not a good idea) he would deny it. Au contraire!

So, this gets me wondering if my mother, who has been married to her first love for over 30 years, and the women who wrote The Rules (remember that controversial book?) were right about playing hard to get. The issue is that I really care about this guy and I want something serious, but I hate playing these sort of mind games. To me, they feel so fake. I value equality and fairness and openness in relationships. I feel uncomfortable "calling the shots" like my mom puts it and getting them to bend over backwards with their time, money, gifts, etc. It offends the feminist in me. I am not a manipulator or a gold digger.

That said, I'm tempted to do a 30-day trial of playing hard to get (without telling him what is going on, of course) and seeing if what they suggest actually works. I just have qualms about it because it feels so unethical to me, because I would get what I want, not because they guy actually loves me, but because I manipulated him into thinking that. That, IMO, is no basis for a relationship.

Any advice?

[missing]

personally as a guy I could care less about the "thrill of the chase", and actually find it very annoying and think "The Rules" is a bunch of crap. However, women seem to respond better towards men who don't cater to them. Those who wait on them hand and foot come off as "needy" which is very unattractive to females. As a result many men develop the habit of acting disinterested; that doesn't mean they enjoy it or mean it. But as they say, old habits die hard. I'd be careful with your "hard to get trial". It could be a benefit, but it could also backfire. Personally, I'd just tell a woman who pulled that kind of thing to "get lost" and I'd find somebody else. But your guy's (and your) mileage might vary. Too many variables...

[Yellow]

I would suggest you just talk to him about it. It is quite likely that he is not aware of this habit. If he is aware then you two can have a very honest conversation about what you value in a relationship and what you don't want.

I have exact same feelings as you do about these games; I can't stand them and don't use them. I don't think this 30 day trial will benefit you or your relationship. If all you want to do is check its effectiveness, I am sure it works for people who don't value honesty in relationships as much. It seems like honesty is important to you. So, if you do, you will be going a step back, in my opinion.

Just talk to him and it will be fine.

[DerekH]

This is a very slippery topic with a guy.

He can either deny it or he could actually become aware of it.

I'm going to lean towards the first one because a few years back, I would've denied it.

He is confusing his feelings of neediness for 'love'. The reason why it seems so strange to you that he is professing his love for you is because its not true.

He has found a source of validation and he will not want to let it go. So he has done what he thinks will keep you around him.


^^^
If you say that to him, he'll definitely deny it. Try it if you want but might be time for a stronger man.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by geekchic9

Any advice?

Just one thing: don't toy with the guy's feelings!

[TonyToneTone]

personally as a guy I could care less about the "thrill of the chase",

Same here, there is no "thrill" in the chase. I would rather have a woman who's up front about if she wants to be with me or not.

[lifetimelearner]

I am no relationship expert

but being needy is not real love
and 'toying' with emotions is immature

I cannot 'tell' you what to do
but if you want my opinion

don't do it



I wish you well

[Angela]

Originally Posted by geekchic9

...I'm tempted to do a 30-day trial of playing hard to get (without telling him what is going on, of course) and seeing if what they suggest actually works. I just have qualms about it because it feels so unethical to me, because I would get what I want, not because they guy actually loves me, but because I manipulated him into thinking that. That, IMO, is no basis for a relationship.

Any advice?

Works at what? How will you know if you have "succeeded" or not at the end of your 30-day trial? Is that "successful outcome" really what you want -- really what inspires you?

What is your heart's desire in romantic relationship?

[jasper666]

He may feel like there is pressure on him to get together with you, but when he thinks you are pulling away he panics. I think that's childhood stuff, as opposed to gender stuff. It could be one or both of his parents made him feel obligated. I think the 'rules' approach will make this particular man panic and want to be with you, but it won't solve the real problem. You may have differing needs for space.

Another way would be to get sensitive to when this is coming up and create space for him without leaving him in the dark. 'I'm going to be tied up for the next few days, but if you would like to talk Monday next week I'll be around', 'I'll be in the next room, but will be back in 20 minutes' etc. Invite rather than ask.

[Martyn13]

This is my take on it, for what it's worth -

'Chasing' occurs thoughout the animal kingdom, not just humans.
The male chases the female, who runs away etc.
It is perfectly natural, and doesn't involve any dishonesty or manipulation on the part of the animals - They are just using their natural instincts.
There are very strong reasons why this behaviour occurs, both in humans and (other) animals.

In humans, a female who is more in touch with her natural feminine side / instincts / vulnerable side, will more naturally play the 'game'.

gc9, I would not play the game if I were you.

If a female has a natural instinct to play the game, they are able to play it with great sensitivity. If you do not really understand why you are playing it, then it will come across as 'artificial', and cause more harm than good, to the relatiionship. It needs great sensitivity to play the game well.

Originally Posted by geekchic9

but I hate playing these sort of mind games. To me, they feel so fake. I value equality and fairness and openness in relationships. I feel uncomfortable "calling the shots" like my mom puts it and getting them to bend over backwards with their time, money, gifts, etc. It offends the feminist in me. I am not a manipulator or a gold digger.

If you are 'uncomfortable' with playing a game (which you don't really understand instinctively), then it may be wise to go along with your feelings on the matter.

I would say that what you said gives little clues - You mention 'feminist', and 'equality' which indicates (to me) that you're not fully in touch (at this moment) with your femininity, and are perhaps too much in the head (to be able to play the game successfully)

Sorry about that, but honesty is the best policy in the long run, especially in this sort of forum!

[Alexjstrandberg]

Playing hard to pet is a horrible horrible idea. If you want to attract low self esteem men who love to get 'what they can't have' then you will succeed. Unfortunately many times when these types of people get what they want they usually lose interest.

You can't play hard to get for entire relationship (if long term) because you will never be able to be comfortable, relaxed and be yourself around them, which is the point of a relationship.

On top of that you will attract weak men who will allow you to control them. Soon you will get them to jump through hoops in order to get sex from you. It will seem fun at first but it will quickly get old. The attraction will slip and fall fast and you will end up looking for a new man.

If you were to play hard to pet with me I wouldn't think twice about walking away from you. If you continue with this experiment you will end up with not so quality men.

[fitx3]

I say go for it if it's based on a trial run. For help on how to do it right check out the bottom link.

"Play hard to get or be easy to forget!" <<< Quote from Mimi Tanner

Hard To Get - by Mimi Tanner

[RT Wolf]

^ "The informal fallacy of false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy) involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are other options." <<< Quote from Wikipedia False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Games are the most fun when everyone involved knows they're playing, and when to quit.

You do not have as much information as you could. Talk to him about it. Phrase it as "I feel this" not "you do this", I'm sure you know about that sorta thing. Frame it differently, he may agree with it, ie "It's a lot more fun when there's a bit of back and forth rather than someone just agreeing with you" vs "the thrill of the chase is a mind game and i don't like it".

If you feel it is unethical to do that, stop. You may be able to reframe the issue to make it not-unethical, but that does not mean it will be as good as it can be. To do something you feel is unethical for the sake of a relationship sounds like it would hurt your relationship with yourself.

That said, he's not your only option, there's other guys out there. I abhore mind games and so does my gf and we've done well by being honest, open and forthcoming. You may have similar luck in finding someone who is open and honest.

[Holistic Star]

What you are thinking is my boyfriend would be perfect if only he would stop playing these games.

Unfortunately your boyfriend is the kind that plays push/pull games with you. Whether or not he is doing it consciously it doesn't matter. This is the guy he is.

Your choice is either to accept him, totally as he is. That either means you want to be with him, exactly as he is right now. Or you decide this isn't what you want from a relationship and you leave.

That's not to say you can't tell him what you observe about him. You can. You can tell him that you would prefer him to call you more often, and not to flake out when you make a suggestion. But you can't change him. If as you suspect he would deny it if you pointed it out to him, it seems like he is unlikely to change.

Sometimes if something isn't an absolute yes, it is a no. Steve posted about a book 'To good to go, to bad to stay' (or something like that) which listed dealbreaker questions to ask yourself. Might be worth a read.

(PS incase it isn't clear - I don't advocate playing games with people).

[RT Wolf]

^ To good to leave, too bad to stay.

Amazon.com: Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship: Mira Kirshenbaum: Books

I've read it, its quite good. There's another book called "Games People Play" you might be interested in reading, more for personal interest.

[thesecretlaws]

i think your problem is going to be that playing hard to get might push him away making him wonder why he cant get the affection he wants when he want it. good luck. keep us updated on your progress.

[garentee]

In my opinion playing hard to get is a pain in the arse. Just be open and honest.. No games.

[TonyToneTone]

Originally Posted by garentee

In my opinion playing hard to get is a pain in the arse. Just be open and honest.. No games.

I agree. Playing games shows a certain level of immaturity.

[jaamkie]

It is annoying, but I think at least a subset of both men and women are attracted to a challenge, like gamblers sitting at slot machines enjoying the uncertainty of a payout, like the rats in experiments who addictively push a lever if it only sometimes gives them a bit of food. I know for myself that tendency is related to novelty and surprise- if in a relationship the same things happen every day, I get bored and start to take it for granted. Maybe there are other ways to be novel and interesting that don't involve dishonest games that you find distasteful.

[yintherapy]

I wouldn't stoop to his level and play the "who can play harder to get" game. Just deal with each incident on a case-by-case basis and set some ground rules, especially now that he's your boyfriend.

Why's he taking his time calling you back? Call him on it. Just be like "Hey, why didn't you call me back yesterday?" I think it's reasonable to expect your significant other to call you back before the day is over, ya know? I mean, he doesn't have to talk your ear off, just a quick 2-minute phone call does the trick. I assume you're not being needy and expecting him to pour his heart out to you on a daily basis or anything.

If you want to go out on a certain day, and he gets all fickle, call him on it! Maybe joke around about it, like "What's up, baby? You're always giving me the run around like you're some kind of slippery fish. If you can't let me know today, I'm gonna make plans with someone else, ok?"

And if you don't talk to him for a few days 'cause you're busy and he's suddenly all up on you, joke around with him about that too, like "You dork, last week you wouldn't even return my calls and now you're texting me five times a day? A little hot and cold are we?"

This stuff he's doing, like not calling back, not knowing about a certain date, aside from being "hard to get" it's just plain poor manners. So at first I'd let him know by calling him on it in a lighthearted manner, and if it doesn't change, then I'd talk about it more seriously, like "Hey, have you noticed that you're acting like one of those hard-to-get people?"

[geekchic9]

Lots of good responses here. This post will have to be a long one to address things.

First, I've decided to be myself and not play any "hard to get" thirty day trials. If there is anything that I am learning about myself, it's that I am only happy when I am completely honest with myself and others about what I think and feel.

The guy and I had an open talk about his push-pull behaviors, and he explained to me that this is basically the way he is, not because he enjoys the game of being hard to get, but because of his intensity. He's intense, and then he pulls back. He'll talk to me for 9 hours straight on the phone (no exaggeration) and then he'll lay low for a few days. The odd thing about it is that my best friend -- who dated me for a long time -- said that I am exactly the same way. I just didn't recognize the behavior in myself. Dating this guy is like looking in a mirror -- a totally objective mirror that pulls no punches.

I read the article mentioned by a couple of people, and there is one question that we have a problem with right now. We're not getting our needs met by seeing each other as often as we like. He lives about 60 miles away by car, and we are both having problems financially. It's hard to find the time and money to see each other, even when we meet somewhere in the middle, go dutch to inexpensive places, and other things like that. Plus, we're both stingy as hell! :-) I have a feeling, however, that this issue is temporary, that one or both of us will find a new job and figure out how to move closer to the other. It will just take a little time, and I am willing to wait.

I really like Angela's questions, because she's very efficient in nailing the issue right on the head:

What is your heart's desire in romantic relationship?

My heart's desire is to find my swan. I've personally never found polyamory appealing (sorry, Steve!), although I can see how others would find it that way. My parents have this wonderful monogamous relationship, and for a while I thought I wanted exactly what they had. It took some time to figure out that in a lot of ways I am nothing like my parents, so I will never have exactly that. But I want what they have in essence, which is a partner who loves and understands me completely and wants to be with me for the rest of his life, no questions asked.

Strangely enough, I feel in my heart that this guy is the one. It is the most unusual thing, but I have been involved with several men in my life, and I have talked to many people in my life, but none of them *get* me like this guy does. We are a huge cliche, but nothing is cliche when it happens to you. We finish each other's thoughts aloud. We can predict many of each other's actions and intentions with startling accuracy, not because we know each other so well, but because we ask ourselves, "What would I do in this situation and why?" and be right. I can be -- have to be -- completely honest with this guy. I've realized since my initial post that I can't lie to him or hide anything from him even if I try. First, he'd know I would be doing so; and second, lying to him is like lying to myself, and around him there is no need to lie to anyone. So, this 30-day hard-to-get trial would have failed before it even started.

You know, the weirdest thing is that I initially didn't think this guy was right for me. He doesn't live close by, he's more Republican and I'm more Democrat, he doesn't have money and neither do I. He's going through a messy child-custody battle with no end in sight. It's all wrong, yet it's so right. I wish I could explain it. My mind is eager to find something wrong with him, and my gut is telling me that I'm crazy to date someone so much like me. But my heart? When I calm down my mind and my gut, I know that my heart is wise. I just hope in time that everything will permanently fall into alignment and that my anxiety will go away completely. Any advice on that?

[seeker5]

I know I myself don't care for the thrill of the chase - I don't see such a thrill, and I don't care to "pursue" hard-to-get women. But that's just me.

[angies]

Do not play any games. Stay away from guys who play games. Honesty is the best way to build a LTR. I have been with guys who played games and have seen girls who play games. These are people who have hidden agenda and the relationship often ended up with someone get hurt. It is not worth your energy and emotional investment to involve in such schenanigan.