men, stay out of the doghouse

[funchy]

Women may find this more amusing than men, but I thought I'd share it anyway:

Video: Advertising Age

[ns123]

Actually, I don't like this commercial. I don't think it is helpful for relationships to even have a doghouse.

Sure, some men have been in the "doghouse" for something, meaning, sometimes, people who love each other upset each other. A helpful response would not to toss him in to the doghouse, because then, he's left feeling like, "huh?" not knowing why his partner is upset. A more helpful response would be to have a frank, open, honest conversation with your partner.

Frank conversations do a person good, man or woman. The concept of a doghouse just perpetuates a non-understanding and non-communication in relationships.

I don't think it's ok to toss your man in the doghouse like this. It's disrespectful to you, as a woman, and it's disrespectful to your man. It portrays the woman a petulant child who just gets mad and stomps off, and it reduces the man to a child who just should be punished when he does something that upsets you. Punishment, stomping off, and non communication does not generate the kind of relationship I would want.

[missing]

Originally Posted by funchy

Women may find this more amusing than men, but I thought I'd share it anyway:

Video: Advertising Age

I actually find that add highly insulting and misandrist. It's another example of how men are treated as morons and idiots in media culture. They exist to be laughed at for their cluelessness. Women aren't exactly painted in a good light here either. The whole thing is representative about so many things I hate in our culture, watching it makes me very angry although I'm kind of desensitized. I've seen so much of it I now just kind of shrug in disgust and forget about it (and avoid TV). I don't understand how anybody can find this kind of thing amusing.

If any woman tried to put me in the "doghouse" I'd walk right out the door.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by missing

...I don't understand how anybody can find this kind of thing amusing.

Ligthen up! It's a friggin' commercial poking fun at the male/female stereotypes. It's not quite good enough for a LOL, but worthy of a few chuckles at least.

If any woman tried to put me in the "doghouse" I'd walk right out the door.

Me too.

[ns123]

good to know we have men on this forum who know they are too wonderful and worthy to ever allow anyone to put them in the doghouse. You go men!

We gals should get rid of the doghouse!

[SuavePlaya]

Originally Posted by missing

I actually find that add highly insulting and misandrist.

I totally agree with you. The media does this type of thing all the time to us men. Women that find this amusing are the ones that are actually crying to themselves why they can't find a real man.

[missing]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Ligthen up! It's a friggin' commercial poking fun at the male/female stereotypes. It's not quite good enough for a LOL, but worthy of a few chuckles at least.

I disagree that this is just a commercial, but part of (and symptomatic of) deeper problems in our culture. It's not an isolated incident "poking fun" at stereotypes but part of an ongoing assault to deny our humanity. It makes me extraordinarily angry and I find it insulting that I'm being told to deny these feelings and "lighten up" at something I find incredibly offensive. I mean, maybe I should just start a thread for holocaust jokes. If any Jews complain I'll tell them to "lighten up".

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Men and women are both made to look horrible and stupid throughout media.

I can't tell here whether there was a sarcastic or parodying intent because I don't have sound! But I'll agree that it looks to create a bad image of men, and as missing said, not such a hot one of women either.

What can we do about these idiotic commercials? I particualrly hate the ones for Axe products. I imagine guys are feeling similarly about this spot.

One the one hand I can lighten up and have a laugh, on the other this type of crap is so pervasive that you have to wonder if it's not a major contributing factor to the continuing division between men and women and the ongoing stereotypes that I think many of us would like to see banished already.

*steps down from soapbox gingerly*

[funchy]

I just thought people wouldn't take it so seriously. It was meant to be taken in jest - a joke about bad gifts right around Christmas. I sincerely apologize if I upset anyone. Should I delete the link?

However, I'm honestly confused now. I am getting mixed messages. Please help me out.

There's plenty of tolerance for sexism against women on the forums of this site, usually masquerading as dating advice. For example, I don't think any of you called out the person who recently recommended on this forum Player Supreme as a "real man" and a "good role model"? If you don't know Player Supreme: Internet Macking with CraigsList or 3 Basic Types of Women
Or the other "dating advice" posted here that treats women like objects, how be a PUA, play a better 'game', how to score more, or any of the other forms of manipulation against women. The message is that women are dumb hoes who will scam you for your money or women are target practice for the players who want to see how many he can score.

So if that ok on these forums, how can a so-absurd-its-funny commercial not be ok? Can I make a fuss each time 'women are just objects to conquer' type posts are made?


Just as an aside comment: IMHO, the doghouse isn't just for men. I admit that I've been in the doghouse myself, more than once or twice. It's just a phrase used to describe the acknowledgment one person really messed up. I don't know of anyone who's been in a relationship for a long period of time where one of them hasn't done something insensitive. We're all human and we all make mistakes sometimes. If one of us does something hurtful without thinking but still means well, we need to be able to laugh it off together.

[Parthon]

Forgiveness.

I laughed at the commercial for two reasons:
1) It was a dramatisation of the reality of many relationships between men and women in our culture. People seriously live like that. It's not about loving one another, but doing everything a person can to not upset anyone else. That's absurd! That's not living, and it's definately not love. That's playing it safe and surviving. Boring! Having it put into a visual situation is a hilarious, but true, parody.

2) The whole ad itself is advertising jewelery, which is just perpetuating the stereotypes. The whole media is filled with images like this, and this is just another one of those. The entire absurd ad is perpetuated by the ad itself.

Funny thing is though, the main thing missing is forgiveness. If people didn't get upset, then they'd be able to do something about it. If people didn't get annoyed at each other so easily, there'd be more room for honest communication. With more communication, the guy would probably have bought a better present.

Someone brought up the holocaust, I mean come on, a bit serious? A bit heavy there? Perhaps if we forgave everyone involved, the victims could finally move on, and we could finally give up the tragedy. It's been 60 long years. It's about time we moved on.

Oh, and laugh at life, all of it, even if you shouldn't, especially if you shouldn't. If you don't laugh, noone will laugh for you.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by missing

I disagree that this is just a commercial, but part of (and symptomatic of) deeper problems in our culture. It's not an isolated incident "poking fun" at stereotypes but part of an ongoing assault to deny our humanity. It makes me extraordinarily angry and I find it insulting that I'm being told to deny these feelings and "lighten up" at something I find incredibly offensive. I mean, maybe I should just start a thread for holocaust jokes. If any Jews complain I'll tell them to "lighten up".

Frankly, I think they should. Same goes for the Muslims that get in rut over Allah jokes. People should take a joke for what it is: a joke. Less war, more humor! I'd prefer good quality humor, but bad humor is still better than no humor at all.

Seriously, how is your being deeply offended by this helping your cause? Is your anger about media stereotyping improving your life? Or that of others? Are you taking direct action to change the behavior of the media? If not, why carry around this anger like dead weight?

Personally, I'd rather focus my energy on something more useful than a bad joke.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

One the one hand I can lighten up and have a laugh, on the other this type of crap is so pervasive that you have to wonder if it's not a major contributing factor to the continuing division between men and women and the ongoing stereotypes that I think many of us would like to see banished already.

There is no division between men and women - only in your heads.

[SuavePlaya]

That is a bad comparison player supreme to the media. Funchy, Who really gets more exposure player supreme or the media? Guys that find this as a joke doesn't even qualify as a real man. When you laugh this type of thing off you sort of encourage people to do this type of thing again you make it okay for people to keep joking about it. These type of commercials is the reason why there is a pua community, so guys won't put up with this type of behavior.

[lifetimelearner]

from now on while I am posting on this forum I am going to read the post answer it and then read what other people have to say

before what I was posting as my answer was the same way I have lived my life--
trying not to be ridiculed and trying to please other people

look out world !

I appreciated the creativity of the commercial and it did make me laugh

but the other side of me hates advertising
esp for nonsense things such as an expensive necklace

there are women who spend or expect to have money spent on ridiculous things such as jewlery when there are more sensible things out there

as a person who is not consumed by materialism I would make some suggestions to my sig other and leave it at that
oh I saw this great book or movie I would love to have

and if you get a vacuum
thank him ladies !
he did not have to buy you anything at all !!!!

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

There is no division between men and women - only in your heads.

I will have to agree with you Jim

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Frankly, I think they should. Same goes for the Muslims that get in rut over Allah jokes. People should take a joke for what it is: a joke. Less war, more humor! I'd prefer good quality humor, but bad humor is still better than no humor at all.

Seriously, how is your being deeply offended by this helping your cause? Is your anger about media stereotyping improving your life? Or that of others? Are you taking direct action to change the behavior of the media? If not, why carry around this anger like dead weight?

Personally, I'd rather focus my energy on something more useful than a bad joke.

okay jim I like this too !
do you have an older brother ?

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by lifetimelearner

okay jim I like this too !
do you have an older brother ?

Nope, I am the older brother. My little brother is longer than me, though, so we can never quite agree on who is the big brother...

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

Nope, I am the older brother. My little brother is longer than me, though, so we can never quite agree on who is the big brother...

okay funny guy
go make some music

[Plato]

I found it funny Funchy. Y'all need to chill out about sexism around here.

[missing]

Frankly, I think they should. Same goes for the Muslims that get in rut over Allah jokes. People should take a joke for what it is: a joke. Less war, more humor! I'd prefer good quality humor, but bad humor is still better than no humor at all.

I don't think any topic is beyond humor, but I don't think you can pick and choose some things as acceptable and not others. You might find holocaust jokes ok, but I bet you most wouldn't, and posting them here could maybe even lead to banning (don't quote me on this, maybe not). But take the above ad and flip it around. When I was younger, we had one of those invisible electric fences for our dog to keep her on our property. She would wear a collar around her neck that gave her a little zap when she got near the fence. It worked great. Imagine the above commercial, where a guy makes her wife wear one of these collars because she isn't performing certain "wifely duties" up to satisfaction. She's burning his dinner, interrupts him while watching the game, or "isn't in the mood" for sex enough, or whatever. The ad says at the end "women, keep your man happy this x-mas. Spend an extra hour cooking or cleaning, give him an extra blow job. Just a little extra effort might keep you away from the collar!"

Can you imagine the outrage such an ad would provoke? I don't think even the most sexist beer ads get anywhere near this (correct me if I'm wrong). And deep down, how is it all that different from the JCPenny ad? If it's just about the commercials themselves and their (lousy) humor, neither would bother me. What bothers me is that one ad is considered acceptable and one isn't. When I point out that I find this bothersome, I'm told to "lighten up". Like "d00d, chill out and smoke a doobie, stop taking life so seriously!". I guess if that works for others fine but to me it sounds like a mega-lame existence, not to mention a cop out to avoid dealing with problems. It's aggravating when people try to force their "lighten up" attitude on the rest of the world, as if it's so superior.

It also makes me wonder if Jews in pre-ww2 Germany or blacks in 19th century America weren't also told to "lighten up" when they got offended at something "petty". If you think this is an extreme example, I consider dehumanization (which the JCPenney ad does to men and women) an extreme thing.

Seriously, how is your being deeply offended by this helping your cause? Is your anger about media stereotyping improving your life? Or that of others? Are you taking direct action to change the behavior of the media? If not, why carry around this anger like dead weight?

Personally, I'd rather focus my energy on something more useful than a bad joke.

I think anger gets a bad rap. For some people it's a reasonable response. If you are under attack, you need it to defend yourself. Anger helps you recognize attacks and fuels your defense. Is it the ideal thing to carry around like "dead weight"? I don't like to think of it in those terms because one can always see ways their situation could be better, internally or externally. I'd rather focus on what is rather than what could be. I'm not really "unhappy" per se with my life, but I think I would be though without my anger. Thus I see it as useful and not "dead weight", and I believe it drives me towards my purpose, thus helping my "cause". People might hear that and gasp, and talk about how miserable I must be, but sometimes wonder if they aren't merely projecting their own repressed anger and unhappiness, while hiding in a veneer of laughter.

[missing]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

There is no division between men and women - only in your heads.

the difference is in our heads (and external wobbly bits). Did you know that the male retina is thicker than the female retina? Or that men and women process emotions in different parts of the brain? Or that women have more sensitive hearing than men? This isn't pop sociology, actual science gives some evidence of these things. Admittedly the science is not as advanced as it could be, but we know enough now to seriously challenge the theory popular in the 60's that "gender is a social construct".

but if you are coming at it from the perspective that all energy is essentially the same and we are all one consciousness and that separation is an illusion, etc etc, than yes, your statement is correct. There is no division between men and women, in the same way there is no division between the feeling starving to death and haven just eaten a luxurious five course meal.

Originally Posted by SuavePlaya

That is a bad comparison player supreme to the media. Funchy, Who really gets more exposure player supreme or the media? Guys that find this as a joke doesn't even qualify as a real man. When you laugh this type of thing off you sort of encourage people to do this type of thing again you make it okay for people to keep joking about it. These type of commercials is the reason why there is a pua community, so guys won't put up with this type of behavior.

I agree with you that a real man™ would not consider this ad a joke, and that somebody like "PlayerSupreme" gets much less media attention, and is far more influential on society than JCPenny. That said, I don't think PUA is the answer to these ads. I've said before that I actually consider PUA very female-centric. It's men grovelling at the feet of women like court jesters for a chance at getting some (most likely empty) sex. A woman is always free to say "no", and if she can't figure out what's going on and believes the PUA's bull, than she isn't that bright. Personally though, I think women are usually smart. They know what's going on, like it, and try to keep up the image as the "poor manipulated saint" so that men feel guilty enough to do the work entailed in something like PUA. That's why I think prostitution is more ethical; everybody knows what to expect, so there is less room for people to get hurt due to emotional confusion.

[silicon toad2000]

lmao that rocks.

i agree with the comments that some peeps need to lighten up, advertising reflects life, it doesn't dictate it.

I think feeling insulted by this add says more about whats inside yourself than the add.

What those advertising people don't realise is that most blokes build their own doghouse, it's called a shed, and it's full of tools and toys. The only guys that end up in the advertised doghouse is those who don't have a shed.
lol keep youself out of the doghouse, forget the jewlery, build a shed.

[Elrond]

If I get a girlfriend and she gives me a power tool for christmas, I'm putting her in the føcking henhouse.

[lifetimelearner]

Originally Posted by Elrond

If I get a girlfriend and she gives me a power tool for christmas, I'm putting her in the føcking henhouse.

tell her to give me the powertool I would appreciate it

women think men want power tools
tell us differently if you don't !!!!!!!@#$$%^&&*&

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by missing

Can you imagine the outrage such an ad would provoke?

Nope, I can't. I've seen far worse ads on TV and no outcry.

I think anger gets a bad rap. For some people it's a reasonable response. If you are under attack, you need it to defend yourself. Anger helps you recognize attacks and fuels your defense.

I wasn't talking about anger in general, I was talking about your anger towards one arguably sexist TV ad that nobody really cares about.

As for jokes about the holocaust, blacks and what not. The fact that we can now laugh about those things doesn't mean we take them any less seriously. It means we have moved beyond those dark times to better ones.

[RT Wolf]

I do not think this ad is satiric in nature; it is unironically critising men's inability to pick "good" gifts for women, not the dynamic between the sexes, and then it is essentially teaching men how to pick a "good" gift. I disagree with the claim that this ad simply reflects society--it also provides a model for behaviour. IE, if someone from another "society" that has different values saw this, they would find out that in this society, do not give practical gifts, give "thoughtful" ones. This is not just a model for men, it is for women, too. It says, if your man gives you a practical gift, it means he doesn't care and you should put them in the doghouse. Look up Marxist/psychoanalytic criticism of visual media such as film, video and pictures to get an idea of how everything means a lot more than what it actually means. Additionally, look up the history of the diamond engagement ring which was essentially created by the de Beers cartel and the advertising agency it hired. Adveritising doesn't just reflect society but is trying to actively influence it.

The problem is how you define a "thoughtful" gift. There's a psych theory that suggested that impractical gifts are desired precisely because they're impractical but pretty. They show that the man has the wealth and status to spend money on "useless" things for the woman. Its a better indicator of investment in the relationship and of a man's wealth than if he got her...say, a vacuum cleaner or even a car because they have practical functions. This doesn't apply to all relationships or all women or even all men, of course.

In my (limited) experience, women seek the experience of feeling special and of feeling cared about in relationships, and so do men. Women just feel special or feel cared about in different situations than men do, and it doesn't have to involve spending money on baubles. Put thought into how to present a gift--a five dollar bouquet becomes a lot more meaningful if it involves a surprise. The last time I got my gf jewelry was a pair of earrings that I spent almost an hour choosing, finding the prettiest ones rather than the most expensive ones and then presenting them to her in front of her friends (presentation, presentation, presentation!). I didn't have any money for a gift for my gf this year so I threw her two surprise parties, which involved coordinating with her friends from out of town. I even filmed the one with her friends so she'd had a reminder of the fun time she had. I'm willing to bet that that experience is more meaningful to her than if I'd gotten her some shiny metal. Of course, that makes for a terrible ad.

[evevera]

It's a clever ad and remember its purpose is to SELL a product. It's also somewhat true and I had a good chuckle from it.

Men can be extremely clueless when it comes to women (not sure why!). All we want is to know our man loves and thinks about us. Rushing home from work just to be with us. Moving mountains to be with us. But you need to communicate it. Getting gifts shouldn't be difficult. We want gifts that tell us you love and care about us... not ones that you think we need or have said we would like throughout the course of the year. You just need to put yourself in our shoes (and our hearts) to know what will make us smile. Thinking too much in your own head will mean less than desirable results on the other hand.

Enjoyed this ad and it's true to some extent. Ppl shouldn't take it too seriously and perhaps you can learn something from it too!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

There is no division between men and women - only in your heads.

You're right, you're right. Forgot myself there for a minute

[missing]

Nope, I can't. I've seen far worse ads on TV and no outcry.

do you have any examples? I can't really think of any off the top of my head, but I don't even own a TV. In part so I don't have to be exposed to the crap ad that started this thread. Perhaps that explains why some think I'm overreacting? I don't see this stuff enough so I'm not desensitized?

I wasn't talking about anger in general, I was talking about your anger towards one arguably sexist TV ad that nobody really cares about.

Well I'm not really railing about one commercial so much as what it's symptomatic off. It's the idea that somebody can post it here with the attitude of "hey guys, isn't this funny?" as if their is no understanding why it might anger somebody. Not saying it was posted out of malice, but I find it depressing the communication gap going on. It's not just here, but all over. I like to think these forums are above this kind of low consciousness humor, but I should probably know better. So it's really my fault in getting overly worked up.

I forget who said it, there is a pertinent quote that says "life is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel". Admittedly, I'm more of a feeler in a thinker's culture.

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by missing

do you have any examples? I can't really think of any off the top of my head, but I don't even own a TV. In part so I don't have to be exposed to the crap ad that started this thread.

Sorry, no examples. I tossed the TV out years ago and didn't make a habit of collecting the ads that made me do it.

Perhaps that explains why some think I'm overreacting? I don't see this stuff enough so I'm not desensitized?

I think you're using the wrong word. Being "desensitized" implies that you are no longer sensitive to something... you're at the opposite end of the scale!

Well I'm not really railing about one commercial so much as what it's symptomatic off. It's the idea that somebody can post it here with the attitude of "hey guys, isn't this funny?" as if their is no understanding why it might anger somebody. Not saying it was posted out of malice, but I find it depressing the communication gap going on. It's not just here, but all over. I like to think these forums are above this kind of low consciousness humor, but I should probably know better.

I don't really subscribe to such high conscious snobbism. That is to say, I don't believe that a high conscious person should be "above" things like this commercial or movie violence (mentioned in another thread a little while ago). It's not about looking down on what other people do or enjoy. It is about seeing such things for what they are.

I forget who said it, there is a pertinent quote that says "life is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel". Admittedly, I'm more of a feeler in a thinker's culture.

Again, a dichotomy I don't subscribe to. I'm a thinking feeler or a feeling thinker if you will. I can't do one without the other.