What about a Sugar Daddy?

[Vie]

Hi everyone

I'm new to this forum, even though I've been reading Steve's blog for quite a while now. I am a student from Montreal and I've recently been struggling with an ethic relationship issue.

See, my boyfriend is quite rich. By this I mean he has enough to live of savings for at least 20 years, I guess. When we started dating a month or two ago, I was aware that his job paid well, but not to this extend. What's wrong? he has been played big time before by some previous gfs that only wanted money. See, I do not encourage this, but to me it see he WANTS to be played... I mean he pickes the helpless insecure girl cute girl and offers her the world... what do you exept might happen?
Now he wants to help me with tuition, groceries, starting my business... and I just don't know what to decide. I'm not the kind of girl that will live of someone like that, I can really use some help of course, but I won't feel I owe him if he gives it to me, he gave it to me. I won't feel obligagted in the relation no matter how much he pours over me. I love to do things by myself and I am very independent. However he seems to be looking for that at-home girlie girl who loves to shop Vuitton and Chanel Hm, ok not me, I have my own fashion label and it's all I wish for

So the point is, should I accept his help even though I know I don't like him that much cause I feel he unconsciously tries to gain considerable control over my life, or should I tell him no thanks?
What about the whole sugar daddy thing anyway? I secretly think sometimes: "Hey, if he's stupid enough to give me the money in the first place and think it's gonna make me his... to bad for him!"

I could give a lot more insight on the situation but that treath is long enough for a first one ever
Thank you!

[LordSappington]

Don't take the money unless you're in a serious relationship and are planning a life together. If you do take it, he will begin questioning your motives, you will be questioning his, and the entire thing will end up badly.

[Vie]

What if he wants to help me sincerely?
He already provides for me...

[funchy]

NO WAY. You become a sell-out. You lose your dignity. You become dependent. You're basically a sponge. And one day, if things don't work out, you're so used to having everything handed to you, you won't be able to leave him & adjust back to the real world.

Keep him as a boyfriend but insist on paying your own way. Anything less makes you a ho.

[Vie]

You think I might have a confidence problem in thinking I can't provide for myself? Even if it is just now to get me back on my own feet?

[funchy]

Why can't you provide for yourself?

Will you really value things casually handed to you? Won't you appreciate what you have alot more if you had to earn it?

[SuavePlaya]

Well he attracts these type of women with his beliefs, so by all means take the money.

[Vie]

Of course I like to provide for myself, I've been doing it for years, though for the last couple of months I've fallen quite low an seemed to suddenly really suck at it. I also accept what is given to me as a gift, and when it is possible use it to pursue my dreams and development (which in my case is becoming a tailor)
This is why I wonder: I need help now, he offers it now, do I take it? I don't know what might happen, and certainly don't think we'll be together forever.

[angies]

Nice problem to have.

[Cristal Lilly]

it looks to me like you're here seeking an excuse to pick the easy road out and take the money. like you need us to justify it and say that it's ok.

I think you're doing this because you know deep down this would be wrong. you see a weakness in a man that likes you, and that is unaware of having that weakness. and now he offers you the chance to exploit him. yes, he's setting himself up, yes, he has limiting beliefs, yes he's blind to his own behaviour. but you who see it clearly, instead of sitting him down and telling him what you see, you're thinking you 'don't even like him that much' so if he's dumb why not just use it.

look, the only thing that can stop you is your own set of morals and ethics. I know mine would make me horrified by the mere idea of kicking a guy when he's down (and doesn't even know it). especially if the motive was easy financial gain. especially since you know he sincerely wants to help you. hell, they're making me horrified to even read this. but that's me, and you have no reason to care for me and my ethical standards.

though you might want to ask yourself how much of your business is your business if the starting capital are means gained through dating, with the full intention to break off the dating once means are provided for. and what business you're in.

so do what is most true for your ethical standards. (but do NOT come to me for any sort of approval, I will grant you none. I'm in fact severly fighting the urge to angrily blurt out a name for you. if you wanted to get approval, you have a PUA up there granting it so there you go.)

[cookie5]

Dont take the money! It sounds like you questioned yourself well and it seems like you have pretty much made up your own mind. Stick with your gut feeling.

[Vasilisa]

I don't understand what's wrong in accepting help which is offered to you?
It's not stealing, it's not manipulating somebody into giving you something, it's taking what' a person who is in love with you wants to give you sincerely.
Say, if you lied to him to get money out of him or something, but if he wants to help on his own - I would take it.
Just remember to hold your own and don't let him think that he owns you. Be ready to give it back at any sign of disrespect or control.

[Vie]

thank you all for your honest answers. I would like to clarify that I did not lie on any topics to him in order to get money and I did not ask for anything, I was honest and open and he decided to offer his help. Also I wouldn't say he is not aware of his weakness, like I said he has been played enough to know he is like that, but as he said, he like to be kind and caring he won't change that in himself because he has been hurt. We decided we should sit and talk very openly about this, because I do like him and I don't want the money issue to take all the place in the relationship. we used to be friends before and I want us to have a good relationship, I know we can work something out this.

As for taking the easy road, I don't see what's wrong with this. Honestly I think getting over my ego and accepting help is not that easy, specially when people tend to react so bad to the fact that I might recieve financial help from my boyfriend for a while.

How come money is such a sensitive subject in relationships? How do you guys deal with money and relationship whenever they come together?

[Vie]

"I'm in fact severly fighting the urge to angrily blurt out a name for you."

... Damn! ...

I mean why the negative reaction? you have the right to disagree, but I don't get why people tend to get angry so easily about this...
I can't picture someone getting angry at a women to letting her date pay the restaurant, which cost represents let's say a certain percentage of the man's whole means. Some broke guys will take a girl to dinner and spend their free money for two weeks on it, still that's accepted: it's the guy's will and the lady might or not know. Then what if all the guy wants to offer me represents for him smaller or same percentage of his money than a restaurant and movie date?
Is there an acceptable amount or percentage of money and/or worth from gifts recieved I shall not bypass? if there is one, how much? why? it would make me happy? it's too easy?
I think this part is up to him. He knows his finances and how to manage them pretty well.

The real issue here I think is playing the guy in order to get what you want or not. It's easy to take a descision on that, clearly I won't play him, and i hope he won't play me either. So I think I need to ask myself if I am strong minded enough to say no and goodbye if ever things turn sour.

[Brutha]

I think this part is up to him.

I think that it's up too you.
Whether you take or don't take his money, you should take responsibility for your decision.

[LordSappington]

Originally Posted by Vie

So the point is, should I accept his help even though I know I don't like him that much cause I feel he unconsciously tries to gain considerable control over my life, or should I tell him no thanks?

Re-read that quote that you just wrote, and you'll realize why you shouldn't take the money.

[legend]

It's funny how we tend to miss the obvious when it involves ourselves it's always he attracts THAT KIND OF GIRL....

Well take a long look in the mirror..... He attracted you didn't he?

Take the money and become all you despise...
Don't take the money and live with the financial state you were meant to solve on your own....

Help him with his insecurities.... money is his out so he doesn't have to grow
like him for him don't let money cloud the issue
If it grows into a serious (marriage) relationship enjoy the riches when your souls unite to one....

Much Love

[Tigerlilly]

Only do something if the thought of it feels good on all levels. Obviously going by your posts, this particular thought doesn't, so don't do it.

It took me ages to just wrap my mind around the thought of accepting to be provided for in any way by a guy I truly love. I could only accept the thought when I came to realise that not accepting it would mean imposing a limiting belief on the Universe and be an action born out of fear, not one born out of love and trust in the guy, myself and the Universe itself.

I'd never in my life "play" a guy for money, you could as well be suggesting to me that I'd work as a hitman for a living. It wouldn't matter one bit who the guy in question might be, it is about who I am and who I desire to be.

I believe if you were the sort of person who could easily play a guy for money and live happily ever after, you wouldn't be posting about the situation on here nor thinking about it even. So ask yourself, who do you want to be regardless of who he is? If you take the money, are you happy with what you are expressing? If the answer is no, then don't, or you will be heading down a road that won't bring you any closer to happiness.

[Vie]

I made a decision, and I realised I unconsciously chose it while ago already simply by letting him in my life.
I will indeed accept his help. I think both of us have to learn from each other, regardless of our different material situations. It's not because he has much more wealth than I do that I have nothing to offer to him, it's simply not on the same level. Now I said I felt I was afraid he might want to control my life, and that's why I was not so sure to like him that much. I realized (though this thread, thanks to you all) that actually this was a feeling of my own, created by my fear of really opening up to someone and accepting their lessons. I was being very defensive and paranoid with him, because I was afraid to let him in and to trust him. This guy has something to teach me, so I need to get over my ego in order to learn.
His presence in my life has already made a big difference. I noticed I see things more positively and laugh with a better heart. Seriously, my laughter changed, it's fuller now, I feel like my whole body laughs along
I was not only afraid of the things he wanted to offer me, but also what he wanted to receive, which in both cases is love, truth and trust. You can guess that not only my financial situation went pretty bad this year, also my ability to love and be true. Which makes sense as both finances and love are closely linked
Him in my life is making me a better person, happier, more responsible and with more love and patience to send out.
I take the decision to overcome my ego and let truth and love be part of my life. I accept I need help. For the financial part, when I can genuinely provide for myself again I'll be more than glad to do it.
About me being "that kind of girl" well, I believe it's probably somehow true, that's why I need help (mostly love, I mean). I personnaly believe the seriousness of a relationship is not determine by its official status or its lenght, but by what you learn from it, how deeply it takes you in.
So I'm taking and learning both. The money to put food in my refrigerator and the love to become a better person. Then I'll keep on making him laugh
By the way, believe it or not; his name sounds exactly like Smile and translates into Wealthy.

[legend]

Good for you Vie
Good Luck
Much Love

[Vasilisa]

Vie, I'm with you on this!
Why do people become so frustrated when a girl meets the guy who wants to help her out financially? Weren't men created as providers, hunters, defenders? It's just natural that a man wants to take care of somebody he loves.
As for control issue - there are a whole bunch of guys who don't want to spend money on their girlfriends but at the same time want to have control over their life. So...

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by Vasilisa

Vie, I'm with you on this!
Why do people become so frustrated when a girl meets the guy who wants to help her out financially? Weren't men created as providers, hunters, defenders? It's just natural that a man wants to take care of somebody he loves.

Although I didn't post at first, I think the objection came from her assertion that she didn't like him much and certainly didn't think they'd be together forever. Those statements made it seem like she'd be using him, even though he freely wanted to help her.

In a loving relationship, it's natural to want to help each other and share of the good things you have. But when you are taking from someone knowing that you don't even like them all that much and already know you aren't planning to stay with them, that's not too nice in my opinion.

Now, she's clarified further why she said those things and felt them. So, at this point, I don't see a problem with her receiving his help with gratitude. I just don't think it's nice to take advantage. But sharing is nice.

[funchy]

Originally Posted by Vie

"I'm in fact severly fighting the urge to angrily blurt out a name for you."

... Damn! ...

I mean why the negative reaction? you have the right to disagree, but I don't get why people tend to get angry so easily about this...

Because women fight passionately to dispel the myth we're just after a guy's money. Or that we're independent and can't be "owned" by a man.

How would you feel if a cute-but-poor guy sweet talked you into buying him things? And you thought it was a real relationship... but when he got bored or the gifts stopped coming, he vanished. Would you really be ok with that?

I can't picture someone getting angry at a women to letting her date pay the restaurant, which cost represents let's say a certain percentage of the man's whole means.

I'd get mad. Why do I get a free ride just because I have boobies?

I had a fight last night with a guy. We went to dinner at a nice Italian place. He wanted to pay because that's just the kind of thing he does. I took the @#$@# check because it's his birthday and it was my idea to go out. I would've really gotten mad if he was successful in grabbing the check off the table & giving it to the waitress against my wishes.

Some broke guys will take a girl to dinner and spend their free money for two weeks on it, still that's accepted: it's the guy's will and the lady might or not know.

One wonders about a guy's good sense if he's spending his entire free paycheck on some dinner somewhere? A really fancy place to eat in my area might be a $50-75 dinner. If a guy can't set aside $25/week for his entertainment/fun budget, why is he (1) picking such an overpriced restaurant (2) not working on the bigger issue: his income vs expenses.

Is there an acceptable amount or percentage of money and/or worth from gifts recieved I shall not bypass? if there is one, how much? why? it would make me happy? it's too easy?

He is giving you $$$ in hopes of increasing the chances he gets sex, love, and companionship from you. You give him no money back and you're not sure you can make a long-term commitment to him. You're basically using him.

I think this part is up to him. He knows his finances and how to manage them pretty well.

Does he also know your plans to use the Bank of Boyfriend for start up capital for your business, tuition, and other ideas?

If it's up to him, he must have all the information to be able to make an educated decision. Does he realize how little you love him? And that you're the kind of person to ponder how much you can sponge off another person before it becomes 'too much'? Would he still be so giving if he knew?

The real issue here I think is playing the guy in order to get what you want or not. It's easy to take a descision on that, clearly I won't play him, and i hope he won't play me either. So I think I need to ask myself if I am strong minded enough to say no and goodbye if ever things turn sour.

So the issue isn't that you want to get as much as you can from a giving person but that you might have trouble saying goodbye later on and give up your welfare check?



I have an idea!!! Have him log in to this board, and show him this thread. If he still feels the same after reading the thread, by all means, enjoy his gifts.

[Cristal Lilly]

I was frothing around the mouth...

...because it looked like you wanted to use him (and I'm still not convinced you don't, but it's not any of my business, I'm only frothing around the mouth here in public because you asked for opinions.). it's not a point of accepting some help from a man you're in a relationship with, it's a point of speaking about that man and the sincere help he offers as 'if he's dumb enough, why shouldn't I', especially when you know in the past this man has been used for money.you basically called him an idiot in front of all of us, and you wonder why I doubt your affection? I could be wrong, and this all could be a misunderstanding but when I sum everything I see here, expressions like sugar daddy and all that...yeah. my unenlightened side kicks in.

..because you are willing to do this and perpetrate the image of women as the ones that need to be taken care of. not just by doing, but also by the way you talk about it. I can see this doesn't worry you in the slightest, and I'm not even saying it's your responsability towards the female gender, but it angers me. it just prolongs the problem, the chauvinism, the oppression. it may be all a silly little idea to you, but where I live THAT IS VERY REAL.

...because I could understand you needing some help with groceries, or even with your tuition, but to have him give you money to start a business too? and NOT offer to give him some sort of partnership or investor status?

...because after all of what I listed, you call yourself a very independent woman. this part insults me personally. as I said, my unenlightened side just kicks in.

now, if I'm totally wrong about everything, then you do have my honest apologies. if this is the case, then just please change the way you talk about it, cause it's not painting you in a true light. and I take everything back except for the part that you're not independent. even if you're the nicest girl ever, I'm sorry, but if your boyfriend pays for your groceries, your tuition and the start up of your business, no matter anyone's intentions, you are simply not independant of him.

[Vie]

You're right I am dependent right now. But it's ok, I have not always been this way and I'll grow out of it. As for me calling him an idiot, I was mostly reffering to the man who are sugar daddies, the kind of guys that would give money in exchange of sex of compagny without really caring about the woman. I wasn't very clear about this though and did not really separate the sugar daddy issue from mine, cause I though it was the same thing when it's not.
I'd like to clarify that I didn't ask the guy for anything. He offers me what he sees I need. It's why I felt so wrong and afraid to open up, cause the more I did, the more he was caring and offering and I was frightened to recieve and be taking advantage of him.
I understand that most women don't want to be dependent and have the right to. I am dependent now and hey I guess I also have the right to.

[Vasilisa]

I think it's a great honor and luck for a woman to be able to rely on the person she loves (and even to be dependent on that person may be).
More than that I believe that smart women fall in love with men if they act noble and selfless and like they want to take care of them (even if they can't afford much, but they try to succeed financially and socially for a woman they love). What can be more attractive?
The only thing which bothers me - why does your boyfriend say that girls used him? There should be something more to it. Just watch his behavior carefully. May be there are some big issues there - too much control or something? May be he has sexual issues and trying to compensate for them?

[funchy]

Originally Posted by Vie

You're right I am dependent right now. But it's ok, I have not always been this way and I'll grow out of it.

Have you noticed every statement you make is about you, your feelings, your wants, and your plans. I don't see an iota of concern for him or anyone else.

What's the point of even going to school or starting a business if he's going to buy you whatever you want?

I'd like to clarify that I didn't ask the guy for anything. He offers me what he sees I need.

How does he know you need it unless you ask? How would he know you need cash to start a business? You are asking, even if it's in an indirect way.

It's why I felt so wrong and afraid to open up, cause the more I did, the more he was caring and offering and I was frightened to recieve and be taking advantage of him.

You making it all about you again. Do you care at all about his feelings? or about what the right thing to do is? Why is there no mention of his feelings? Why do you ask us about the ethics if you're just going to keep saying things like "I have a right" to act this way and "it's ok because it's a phase"? Who are you trying to convince: us or yourself?

I think what's bothering me is your disconnect. There is no connection between your greedy wants and other peoples' feelings. There is no connection between grabbing handouts and your own confidence. There's also no connection between your motives and acknowledging the truth. Why ask others the ethics question when you've already spent alot of time dreaming up ways his money is going to make you happy?


Imagine the scenario of a teenager who is in a shopping frenzy at the mall with dad's stolen credit card. How much of her dream items can she snag before it ends? Isn't she so smart for finding a way to con money out of a nice guy? And in the long-term this experience will shape her character into someone who has learned to put her morals aside & be ok with taking instead of earning.

[Steve Pavlina]

This is okay if you wanna do it and the guy wants to do it too.

Just be aware that you won't end up with a relationship though. What you have is a variation on prostitution. If you're both okay with that though, go for it.

Could be a fun growth experience for the two of you.

[Plato]

Ha, sounds like my relationship with my parents, but more sex.

Be careful... you may become dependent on the security he can offer, and you'll find yourself not living the life you want but too comfortable to leave.

[Scipio]

He has a considerable sum of money. Have you read Steve's article about where he says people have different views on money? For example, an ultra-wealthy person thinks nothing of spending a few thousand dollars in a hotel for one night, while that would be viewed as extremely "wasteful" for someone coming from a more scarce mindset.

Consider the position of abundance he comes from. He might think of buying you groceries as just getting rid of some pocket change. Then to him, it's really no skin off his back if he bought you some groceries or helped you with your rent. It'd be similar to a regular guy buying you dinner.

In that case, his gifts to you are just a small gift from his emotional perspective. You might think of it as "using" him because you come from a scarcer mindset, but it isn't that way to him at all. To him its like a regular guy giving you the quarters in his pocket.