A recommendation for those of you in the PUA community

[tomn8er]

Since Steve mentioned that a lot of his readers are involved in the Pickup Artist community I thought I'd do you guys a favour and introduce you to one of the best teachers in the business: Player Supreme. I'm sure a lot of the people who are into this sort of thing have already heard about Supreme and may already know what he is about, but if not, here's a short video intro:
Who is Player Supreme

He's got literally hundreds of podcasts about how to pick up women, from general advice on how to be a "real man", the LOA, and developing the courage to approach women, to specific techniques on how to build rapport and seduce them. I bought his material on CD about 2 years ago but you can also listen to some of his more recent stuff for free at Zenmack. I remember one podcast where he mentions that he used to count how many women he had slept with but stopped bothering to keep track after two hundred or so!

I'm not affiliated with this guy at all, and I'm not even using his material anymore - I decided that becoming a player wasn't the right path for me. But even still, I've found that his general message of becoming "a real man" really helped me out with my romantic/sexual life so if you're having trouble getting girls or are serious about becoming a seduction pro you should check him out.

[Elenny]

Pathetic to say the least, but that's just my humble opinion. Don't even try any of those "tactics" on me, because I will just laugh in your face and bring your low self-esteem even lower.

[funchy]

A more helpful approach instead of playing PUA is to work on why some people are having problems meeting and having the relationships they want with the opposite sex. Why the hesitation in talking to others?

Is it that women are hard to meet? Hard to approach? Or hard to get out on a date?

Instead of teaching people to become actors and play a fabricated role, I'd be much more interested in discussing how we can help the real guy. As a woman, in my opinion, we have a whole lot more respect for a guy who is sincere versus the wannabe-player.

[Pequod]

Interesting vid Tom! This guy is a great example of an accomplished darkworker.

He comes across very together and confident. He is around 50 but looks 20 years younger. He is a really smooth talker and his delivery gives off a whole different vibe than his real message. If you forget to listen critically to his content, and only rely on his non-verbal communication (some reseach states that this makes 93% of the impact!), then one would get a completely wrong idea about him. I don't doubt that he gets a lot of women, even in his fifties.

His attitude is total darkworker stuff. He is all about power. And submission of the women he is with is just part of that. It's all pleasant interesting conversation in the vid, and yet there are 3 moments in which he shows his true colours: somewhere in the vid het states that he has had 5 or 6 cars from women and he cheated on his girlfriend. Also he states near the end that his motvation is that he wants to control other people.

Of course he doesn't mention the drawbacks of his approach: I'm sure he is always lonely as he can never show a weakness (that would diminish his power over others). His whole life he will be struggling and striving, because there will aways be others that are also powerful, not to mention the women in his life that he needs to dominate all the time. And what will happen in his old age?

I'm not saying that being powerful is wrong. Being powerful is very good. But only when it serves a purpose greater than one's ego and is aligned with love and truth. At least, that is my take on it.

[TonyToneTone]

Originally Posted by Elenny

Pathetic to say the least, but that's just my humble opinion. Don't even try any of those "tactics" on me, because I will just laugh in your face and bring your low self-esteem even lower.

They probably work on you the best!

Interesting vid Tom! This guy is a great example of an accomplished darkworker.

I watched the same vid (only clips of it) and didn't get that same vibe from him. He teaches men to meet women, so what? Is he as good as he says he is? Who knows? Does that make him a "darkworker"? Depends on if he is teaching men to manipulate women or teaching them strategies to be more successful with them.

[Pequod]

Originally Posted by TonyToneTone

Does that make him a "darkworker"?

He is a darkworker in my book because he is only driven by power (i.e. ego), and uses women to extract money from them (He tells in the vid he was in the "pimp-game". That means seducing women and then making them into prostitutes to earn money for you). He is nowhere talking about his love for women, or that he wants to contibute to their life. He is only looking for ways to get as much as he can from them.

By the way, I use the follwing definition of dark- and lightworkers: a darkworker works only for his/her best interest, a lightworker works for the best of the whole.

[TonyToneTone]

Originally Posted by Pequod

He is a darkworker in my book because he is only driven by power (i.e. ego), and uses women to extract money from them (He tells in the vid he was in the "pimp-game". That means seducing women and then making them into prostitutes to earn money for you). He is nowhere talking about his love for women, or that he wants to contibute to their life. He is only looking for ways to get as much as he can from them.

By the way, I use the follwing definition of dark- and lightworkers: a darkworker works only for his/her best interest, a lightworker works for the best of the whole.

Didn't he say though that he no longer does that? That he was at a different point in his life then? If he still did/does that, I would agree with you 100%.

I also agree with your definition of the two.

[tomn8er]

Originally Posted by TonyToneTone

Didn't he say though that he no longer does that? That he was at a different point in his life then? If he still did/does that, I would agree with you 100%.

I also agree with your definition of the two.

Yeah you're right, he no longer does that. In fact, I recall him saying that he's no longer even in "the game" anymore, but is settled down now.

[tomn8er]

Originally Posted by Pequod

Interesting vid Tom! This guy is a great example of an accomplished darkworker.

He comes across very together and confident. He is around 50 but looks 20 years younger. He is a really smooth talker and his delivery gives off a whole different vibe than his real message. If you forget to listen critically to his content, and only rely on his non-verbal communication (some reseach states that this makes 93% of the impact!), then one would get a completely wrong idea about him. I don't doubt that he gets a lot of women, even in his fifties.

His attitude is total darkworker stuff. He is all about power. And submission of the women he is with is just part of that. It's all pleasant interesting conversation in the vid, and yet there are 3 moments in which he shows his true colours: somewhere in the vid het states that he has had 5 or 6 cars from women and he cheated on his girlfriend. Also he states near the end that his motvation is that he wants to control other people.

Of course he doesn't mention the drawbacks of his approach: I'm sure he is always lonely as he can never show a weakness (that would diminish his power over others). His whole life he will be struggling and striving, because there will aways be others that are also powerful, not to mention the women in his life that he needs to dominate all the time. And what will happen in his old age?

I'm not saying that being powerful is wrong. Being powerful is very good. But only when it serves a purpose greater than one's ego and is aligned with love and truth. At least, that is my take on it.

Sounds like a very accurate interpretation Pequod. I've decided that I don't like to think of people as being darkworkers or lightworkers, but if you want to view things in that way then Player Supreme is most definitely a darkworker.

Although some part of me will always yearn to be able to have that sort of total power over women and be able to pick up wherever I go, another part says that this just isn't me, and it's not something that I feel is worth devoting my life to or changing who I am as a person. However, after listening to so much of his content, I eventually began to detect an underlying theme that seemed to go beyond the archetypal darkworker mentality. This is because he espouses a lot of the same messages that Steve does (abeit usually with a rather different focus): the LoA, developing courage, improving social skills and speaking ability, even what one might think of as a form of empathy towards women - getting inside their heads, so to speak. And that underlying message (what he calls "becoming a real man") is what really resonated with me.

[tomn8er]

Originally Posted by funchy

A more helpful approach instead of playing PUA is to work on why some people are having problems meeting and having the relationships they want with the opposite sex. Why the hesitation in talking to others?

Well he does address these underlying issues too - it's not all gimmicks and pick-up lines you know. In fact, I'd say he spends more time focusing on developing basic life skills like building social courage and such than he does on specific seduction techniques.

Instead of teaching people to become actors and play a fabricated role, I'd be much more interested in discussing how we can help the real guy. As a woman, in my opinion, we have a whole lot more respect for a guy who is sincere versus the wannabe-player.

Haha no doubt, that's why I stopped following this PUA stuff. I'm not a player so I don't pretend to be. But at the same time, there are some very useful techniques that he explains, like recognizing subtle signals (subtle to a guy like me anyway ) like when a girl mirrors your body language/posture or when she gives you strong eye contact.

[AlexG]

Player Supreme has a lot of good advice.

[TonyToneTone]

Originally Posted by tomn8er

Yeah you're right, he no longer does that. In fact, I recall him saying that he's no longer even in "the game" anymore, but is settled down now.

Thanks for the update.

[Pequod]

Originally Posted by tomn8er

I've decided that I don't like to think of people as being darkworkers or lightworkers, but if you want to view things in that way then Player Supreme is most definitely a darkworker.

Yes, even as Playersupreme is now out of the 'game' as you noted correctly earlier in this thread, it is not so much what he does, but why he does it. He stopped the pimp game because he became too old and had other income so he didn't have to risk going to jail. It was only a matter of practicality and not morality. He is very straight forward about that.

By the way, I agree with not giving too much attention to light- darkworker stuff. It is not all that practical and there are hardly any people who are very polarized.

Originally Posted by tomn8er

However, after listening to so much of his content, I eventually began to detect an underlying theme that seemed to go beyond the archetypal darkworker mentality. This is because he espouses a lot of the same messages that Steve does (abeit usually with a rather different focus): the LoA, developing courage, improving social skills and speaking ability, even what one might think of as a form of empathy towards women - getting inside their heads, so to speak. And that underlying message (what he calls "becoming a real man") is what really resonated with me.

Sometimes the actions of a lightworker will be the same as those of a lightworker. I remember that Player Supreme's main 'tactic' is to get a girl's life story. When I first read about that from him, I liked that very much and nowadays it is very much 'standard procedure' for me. The difference is that PS uses her life story to find her weak spots, and works them to give her feelings/values that she wants, so he can 'get' her. I use it to connect and have an interesting conversation. Same technique, very different intention!

[missing]

Originally Posted by funchy

A more helpful approach instead of playing PUA is to work on why some people are having problems meeting and having the relationships they want with the opposite sex. Why the hesitation in talking to others?

Is it that women are hard to meet? Hard to approach? Or hard to get out on a date?

Instead of teaching people to become actors and play a fabricated role, I'd be much more interested in discussing how we can help the real guy. As a woman, in my opinion, we have a whole lot more respect for a guy who is sincere versus the wannabe-player.

I think the concern that many men have is that a woman won't accept him for who he is. Contrary to what you say about wanting a "real guy", my personal experience with women tells me such fears are legitimate. A man is going to have to put up a front with women anyway, so he might as well pick the one that gets him laid. At least that's how I interpret the logic. Personally, I think the PUA route is way too much work for too little reward. Sex is OK but it's not worth jumping through so many hoops. A deeper relationship maybe would be, but then how deep could it be if you had to jump a bunch of hoops to get it?

In the real world, people generally don't accept other people for "who they really are". PUA's at least understand this much, probably too well.

[legend]

PUa's are pushers selling you a drug....
they give you the first taste for free and once you are hooked you start paying in one way or another.
They are not selling truth. they are selling the promise of sex plain and simple
It is sad that men believe they have to be dis-genuine with canned openers and quite frankly lies......
They are a cult with their own language (set, negs, etc)
They give me information about what so and so the one time world champion says about picking up women.... Like this means something
They take on false images with 13 year old nicknames (mystery, matador, etc)
I don't know any women who would have a meaningful relationship with someone like that.

Once you get past the BS it all amounts to nothing but a lot of wasted time and sometimes guys are wasting money and some mildly amused women

Be comfortable in your own skin.... know that you do not need to be more than you are and get out there and be social.....

Rant Off:

[supertom]

women hate it, cause it brings their magical love relationships, to just techniques even nlp. I think its this disney like belief that is causing a lot relationship problems for women. I dont think conscious women would fall for this.

[tomn8er]

Originally Posted by legend

PUa's are pushers selling you a drug....
they give you the first taste for free and once you are hooked you start paying in one way or another.
They are not selling truth. they are selling the promise of sex plain and simple
It is sad that men believe they have to be dis-genuine with canned openers and quite frankly lies......
They are a cult with their own language (set, negs, etc)
They give me information about what so and so the one time world champion says about picking up women.... Like this means something
They take on false images with 13 year old nicknames (mystery, matador, etc)
I don't know any women who would have a meaningful relationship with someone like that.

Once you get past the BS it all amounts to nothing but a lot of wasted time and sometimes guys are wasting money and some mildly amused women

Yeah that's the very worst of it all though. For many men the glamorous appeal of becoming a player is motivation to change; however shallow, trivial, or misguided some people might think this is, it is at least a step in the right direction because it leads towards personal development.

When I first came across Steve's site, I found that his take on certain ideas could be pretty hokey-sounding or "out there," but then when I heard Player Supreme's interpretation it made more sense to me.

[tomn8er]

Originally Posted by supertom

women hate it, cause it brings their magical love relationships, to just techniques even nlp. I think its this disney like belief that is causing a lot relationship problems for women. I dont think conscious women would fall for this.

Yeah good point supertom. I never thought of it like that... but I'm sure they also don't like the idea of being manipulated, deceived, and taken advantage of either. But this idea is a negative stereotype - I think there is a lot more to it than lying to women to get them to sleep with you. For instance, one of the main things PS preaches is to "take a genuine interest in her" and "get her life story." This is useful advice that every man should take to heart, and I'm sure no woman would argue that.

[Hot Alpha Female]

I'm taking a stance in defense for the PUA's.

I think that a lot of people who have a limited idea of what a PUA is think its all about manipulation, deception and sleeping with as many women as possible.

But here is what I believe is the truth.

That learning how to be good with women is a skill. A lot of men these days were not educated in this area.

They are taught to drive, to spell, to brush their teeth, but if they were lacking a strong make model who would teach them to be a man .. then they are really lacking in this area.

Learning pick up at the end of the day is discovering more about yourself. Some of the most developed PUA's are very well emotionally, physically(take care of their bodies) and spirituality developed men.

If you were a woman and you didn't know any better you would be falling head over heels with one of them.

A lot of them go through stages. When they first learn it they want to get with as many woman as possible. But they grow through this stage aswell and search for more meaning.

Some guys take longer than others. But then end up being totally fun confident and self assured guys.

What in the heck is wrong with that?

All I'm saying is, before you make a quick judgement about what a PUA is ... educate yourself a little more on what they are really about.

[legend]

Spoken quite eloquently by someone who has something to sell me....
approach any woman, anywhere, anytime...

My problem with the pua community is the demeaning of the male female interaction...
breaking it down to a get rich quick.... lose 20 pounds and you don't need to diet type of program has no place in human interaction...

Are you saying that you would have a serious bare your soul relationship with someone called player supreme he sounds better suited for the taco bell value menu....

confidence without honesty equals a spirit damaging experience period.

some of the message is good (personal hygene, how to carry your self).... some of the message is bad (lie to get an opening, neg on girls to minipulate their interest)
All of the method is bad (creating this sub-coultrure with it's own language and script and self appointed nicknames)
And to top it off they will sell it all to you for just $19.99 but wait order now and they will include learning to live the lie for free...
They will teach you how to manipulate other human beings for your own self-gratification and feel good because hey eveyone else is doing it

Much Love

[tomn8er]

Originally Posted by legend

Spoken quite eloquently by someone who has something to sell me....
approach any woman, anywhere, anytime...

My problem with the pua community is the demeaning of the male female interaction...
breaking it down to a get rich quick.... lose 20 pounds and you don't need to diet type of program has no place in human interaction...

Are you saying that you would have a serious bare your soul relationship with someone called player supreme he sounds better suited for the taco bell value menu....

confidence without honesty equals a spirit damaging experience period.

some of the message is good (personal hygene, how to carry your self).... some of the message is bad (lie to get an opening, neg on girls to minipulate their interest)
All of the method is bad (creating this sub-coultrure with it's own language and script and self appointed nicknames)
And to top it off they will sell it all to you for just $19.99 but wait order now and they will include learning to live the lie for free...
They will teach you how to manipulate other human beings for your own self-gratification and feel good because hey eveyone else is doing it

Much Love

lol, I've noticed that you seem to be hung up on the fact that the guy is named Player Supreme... well, it's not like he's introducing himself to these women as "Player Supreme." The same way you wouldn't introduce yourself to anyone as "Legend" (I hope ) and I wouldn't introduce myself to anyone as "Tomn8er". All of these are just nicknames - get over it.

Also, telling white lies to strike up a conversation isn't necessarily a bad thing, and it's certainly not necessary (nor encouraged) to do so. Neg hitting is not inherently bad either if it's done in a playful, joking manner (which is how it's supposed to be done). And please explain what is so bad about creating a subculture with its own language? Is it because it involves some minor effort and a bit of personal investment to understand? Because it's not immediately accessible to the masses? Where's your reasoning for saying this is bad???

And what's wrong with paying money for a valuable service? I purchased PS's CD for around $60 Canadian and don't feel that I was ripped off because, lo and behold, I did receive value from it! Sounds to me like you or someone you know has been scammed before? Certainly there is a lot of swindlers and scam artists out there because most of these guys promote themselves independently on the internet and this is always a risky venue for the customer. Doesn't mean it's all bad though so please stop generalizing.

[legend]

I do not think it is all bad (the Message)
I just think that they created this subculture to make money
They are creating the mirage that normal people are missing out
So you will spend money on their product......
Somehow humans have managed to meet and reproduce for thousands of years without the clownish games......

You and I are just going to have to disagree on the negative impact that telling white lies and saying negative things to others even in a joking manner does to the spirit of both parties involved.....

Look past the culture and find the truth in yourself and others
Have a positive impact on the world
It's just not there in the pua way.... I hope you don't waste to many years on that path

Much Love

[missing]

I'm starting to think that this whole PUA movement is merely catering to female sexuality. Studies have been done that link women's arousal to oxytocin, a hormone that promotes feelings of "trust" and "connection". It's one reason why so many women who are straight will sleep with other women. Well, maybe not always have sex but they will be very touchy with one another, lots of hugs, etc. It's arousing for them. You would never see straight men pull that. Hell, you don't even see gay men doing that! Male sexuality is more linked to testosterone, a hormone of aggression. They get aroused and get off, and there is little need for a "relationship" to be involved. Well what does PUA teach you other than how to manipulate social interactions to create that feeling of "connectedness"? They always talk about how you need to get her to "trust" you and feel comfortable and all that. That's fine and all, but men don't need any of that to get off sexually. She does though, so the man has to go through all sorts of work in order to get her aroused enough to want to sleep with him.

No wonder women like Hot Alpha Female like it! If I were a woman I would too! That doesn't change that it's very fake and kind of manipulative, but I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for women who fall for this kind of stuff and complain about it. I mean if you are starting to "fall in love" with a guy you've only known for a brief bit, that should raise some BIG red flags. I'm thinking that PUA is merely an elegant form of prostitution. Instead of exchanging money for sex, it's behavior for sex. I have no qualms about people who want to engage with this stuff, but I'd rather just pay a hooker (so long as it's safe). Way more honest.

[Asmoday]

I mostly try to avoid these conversations -- mainly because I was involved with the PUA community many years back (before gurus became like rock gods to subsets of the population) -- and frankly, I got burned out on the subject.

What I would like to say is that when people say something along the lines of "Seduction is manipulation", then I instantly know they've probably never successfully seduced someone, and if they did, it was damn fool luck, not skill.

Seduction is a dance between two willing partners, who are aware that seduction is occuring, from start to close. It is beautiful, and incredibly fragile.

Its fragile, and beautiful. Is is based on lies? Sure. But if you have a problem with lies on THAT LEVEL, you better not be happy when children hear about Santa Clause, and don't ever tell the story of the revolution where Paul rode his horse hundreds of miles to warn that the british were coming.

You see, they're both just fantasy roles, and we all love that. We know Santa Clause is fake, and we know the revolution wasn't really like that.

We like the lie, because on a certain level, we understand that life is all about magical moments.

Deep down, everyone wants to be known. Everyone wants to surrender deeply, just for a little while.

Master PuA's do not create false expectations of a lasting, long term, monogamous relationship. They manage that from day one.

They know the mark, take time and care, and the mark is aware of what is happening, and allows theirself to be known.

Try it. REALLY try it before you knock it.

Myself? I really think all the hostility towards it comes from either jealousy from those who wish they could but (because of fear or something else) can't -- or its a resentment that it represents a turning of the sexual tables, where men can get what they want without having to emotionally or financially invest.

But no, you can't seduce the unwilling. Its fragile fantasy, it crumbles against any actual, true resistance.

[missing]

Originally Posted by Asmoday

Its fragile, and beautiful. Is is based on lies? Sure. But if you have a problem with lies on THAT LEVEL, you better not be happy when children hear about Santa Clause, and don't ever tell the story of the revolution where Paul rode his horse hundreds of miles to warn that the british were coming.

You see, they're both just fantasy roles, and we all love that. We know Santa Clause is fake, and we know the revolution wasn't really like that.

We like the lie, because on a certain level, we understand that life is all about magical moments.

you would think that men and women, when making a decision that involves exposing yourself at the most intimate level with the potentially dire consequences of creating conscious life, you'd THINK that you'd want to be in "adult mode" for such a time. But that is too much to ask for some people. Those "magical moments" come at a price.

I've never liked the Santa lie, nor the historical lies we are told in school (actually I despise these). Personally, I prefer the truth to the lie. Always have, always will. So don't say "we all love fantasies and lies" cause I for one don't. Real life is good enough for me, thank you very much. Yea I know, I'm just a serious, no fun loser whose bitter he can't do PUA with the best of 'em.

I do agree some other things you say however, that anyone who wants to break the seduction dance, can. But let's not romanticize the process into something it's not. It's simply pushing reptilian buttons to satisfy LCD urges. Nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is.

[PlayerSupreme]

Originally Posted by Pequod

Interesting vid Tom! This guy is a great example of an accomplished darkworker.

He comes across very together and confident. He is around 50 but looks 20 years younger. He is a really smooth talker and his delivery gives off a whole different vibe than his real message. If you forget to listen critically to his content, and only rely on his non-verbal communication (some reseach states that this makes 93% of the impact!), then one would get a completely wrong idea about him. I don't doubt that he gets a lot of women, even in his fifties.

His attitude is total darkworker stuff. He is all about power. And submission of the women he is with is just part of that. It's all pleasant interesting conversation in the vid, and yet there are 3 moments in which he shows his true colours: somewhere in the vid het states that he has had 5 or 6 cars from women and he cheated on his girlfriend. Also he states near the end that his motvation is that he wants to control other people.

Of course he doesn't mention the drawbacks of his approach: I'm sure he is always lonely as he can never show a weakness (that would diminish his power over others). His whole life he will be struggling and striving, because there will aways be others that are also powerful, not to mention the women in his life that he needs to dominate all the time. And what will happen in his old age?

I'm not saying that being powerful is wrong. Being powerful is very good. But only when it serves a purpose greater than one's ego and is aligned with love and truth. At least, that is my take on it.

Nice little pop psychology analysis here fella. I kinda like that dark worker thing also. Yes it is I the DarkLord of the Sith.

You must already know something about me to suggest that I am 50 but thanks for the 20 years younger compliment. It's a black thang. Or maybe I get special reprieve from the usage of my DarkLord powers.

You are right about domination and power over women though. But I do it naturally. I am a old fashioned male. What current weak men and fem-nazi type of women would call a male (you know what I can't even recall how to spell that word those women made up many years ago and I am not gonna dignify it by looking it up...so you figure it out) cheuvinistic pig.

I believe in the old archetype of male and female relationships and so do the women that I attract into my life.

I am about returning the male power to men out there and if you wrongly believe that I am about darkworker energy then go ahead.

Let me state that I am also a 2nd level Reiki healer and motivational speaker but I guess I get my juice from my Sith lord master huh? Oh I guess you got that word "darkworker" from Dorreen Virture the author of "The light workers way?" I still like it. It cracks me up and I will now call myself the Dark Lord cause I gotta be a lord not just a ordinary worker due to my already big arsed ego. I mean come on man. Don't make me plain.

Someones Calling


YouTube - Shoulda Woulda Coulda by Chris Arnett CTM

Now I already know the 3 things that your going to do after watching the first video so try not to be typical here old thing.

Thanks.

[PlayerSupreme]

There seems to be a lot of discussion on the Pick Up Artist (pua) community on this thread.

What many do not realize that this community was founded by and is still dominated by nerds. Yes those guys from my high school days who wore their Ti 35 calculators in their plaid short sleeved shirts pockets with pipe stem arms sticking out. You know the high school chess team goobers.

The guys women do NOT want to date. But smart gold diggers after they have had their fun will trap and settle down with. Especially if they get pregnant by some stronger type of males kid and pass that kid off as the weak man's child. Yes it does happen. You would be surprised how much so it does.

Well let me push this history lesson forward to say that these so called smart guys studied natural seductionist to see what they were doing that made them so successful and then they tried to codify and market what they learned.

Ross Jefferies is the founder of the online seduction community and you can't find a bigger nerd image if you tried. If you look anything like he does and he is still getting laid...then he must of been doing something right?

Well let me say that nerds need people like me to show them how to communicate with the lower IQ people out there including those so-called super hot women they want.

Their main problem is that they never learned good communication skills and lack social adaptablity and skills too boot.

But, you can't put the seducers type of information in the hands of a group of guys that women do not like to begin with and expect that stuff to work.

I have found that the dating game is like marketing. You have to find a market for your product (you) and then market that product (you) to that market.

My concepts are straight out of first year college marketing. I talk about packaging (working out, dressing, car, crib (home), convo. I teach about developing the product itself with finding your purpose in life, following your passions, and developing your own business.

I believe these areas will help make nerds more marketable to women out there.

I do not believe in tap dancing or telling fake lies and stories and becoming a woman's entertainment monkey. I do not believe in neg hits.

How is a skinny big headed geek going to tell a super hot babe something bad about herself and get away with it? It's stupid to begin with and this is a dangerous tool in the hands of nerds.

Nerds do not exist on the normal channel. Down there normal people talk and interact and joke around.

Nerd humor IS different than normal folks humor.

If you doubt me do what I call the "ENGINEER TEST" and go find a group of engineers who are super nerds and try to tell jokes to them.

No offense to any engineers here but you know you guys are a different strange breed of males.

Programmers are almost as bad and I used to study programming way back in it's dawn ages.

I was a bookworm which is another breed of guys who were kicked out of the dating arena. Nerds, bookworms, geeks, goobers, spongebob square pants or nice guys and creepy shy guys, are considered wierd by the regular folks off the internet.

We are all ostracized from the dating world for our own eccentricities.

I had the misfortune to not only be a bookworm but also a creep shy guy.

You can't put a bunch of tricks and stories in the hands of these types of guys and expect them to get hot women.

Sorry there isn't really any "Revenge Of The Nerds" that will happen. Usually if one of the pua dudes get lucky it's because he looks ok to the woman that he is talking to.

As we saw on Mysterys show when Cosmo tried to get that one girl, you heard her say "it's not what you said but how you looked."

So if most super hot girls do not like skinny nerdy dweeby creepy nice guys types then the answer is simple.

Dont arm them with scripts and send them aggressively into the streets and expect them to do well.

It's no wonder they report so many bad explorations out there. From being spit on, slapped, laughed at, ignored cops called on them, in Germany a group of geeks are not allowed onto a certain train station now and another group are not allowed within a certain night club, one guy in Canada had the cops called on him at a night club and was arrested, to a host of other issues including a VAST number of flakes and fake phone numbers.

No that isn't the answer. I am all for men pushing ahead and sallying forth but not like that.

Let's teach that man to make remake himself into what women like and then find what women likes his type and then teach him how to go out and find that particular type of female which is also based on what HE likes in a woman besides just looks.

Basically use the law of attraction both metaphysically and physically with the make overs.

If any of you guys are old enough and you still disagree think back to the show "Welcome Back Kotter." Recall the character of

Arnold Horshack.

Blinkx Video: Welcome Back, Kotter: What a Move!

Now that you have watched that video. Put the fake pua material in his hands and you can see what a debacle this whole community is.

What is funny to me is that they will fight tooth and nail to defend it and call themselves with their heads high on scrawny necks a PUA.

For those of us who have been in the game its insulting and disgusting to have these rookies running around messing up the game, preaching a bunch of junk that won't work.

Many PUA gurus are nothing more than internet marketers. The dating industry is ripe for online marketing and I have even seen a instructor of marketing suggest that people come to this field and copy someone else's work and market it to make lots of money.

When you have programmers who design slick sites for these guys and copy writers who create powerful ads that read similar to I was short fat and balding and now I date 6' tall models and with the majority of guys within this community below 6' tall it hits hard and sells hard.

As PT (no last name necessary) once said there is a sucker born every minute.

Next let me address the market place demographics.

Not all of the guys within this community are caucasians. In fact there is a large asian and south east asian population listening to these guys thinking one game size fits all.

Being a minority I know how hard it is to date outside of the race for women. With the fear of pregnancy looming every time a caucasian woman has sex with a black male she is at risk. With her family looking at her side ways and her friends and peers doing the same it is not a easy decision for women to date outside of their races.

I know a woman who's family will not even speak to her anymore because of her dating a black man.

I am not here to throw a ficticious race card or whine about it cause I have been very successful in my marketing program (dating).

My point is these guru's need to realize who is reading their books and design their products accordingly.

I was told by one popular super masculine promotor and instructor on the phone that he won't even sell his book to a asian male and will give them their money back. I will leave him nameless.

These product ie ..e-books and seminars do not take into account that not all women are willing to cross a race line. They think that if you spit (communicate) your magic stories in their ears the women will automatically open their legs.

Not taking into account the market place where these poor suckers are trying to do this.

I am not marketable in a skin head club. Is one example of what I am saying.

I often see guru's and their followers just yell at the frustrated chumps to keep striving forth and eventually you will succeed.

Yes you will!

After how many hundred of tries?

Their average is 1- out of 100 approaches.

They do what is called shot gun marketing style.

Just aim at any hot babe who walks by. Stupid and energy wasting.

I prefer the rifle style of marketing. Narrow my market down.

I like to look like a black lumber jack. I wear plaid lumber jack shirts jeans or sweats and boots or tennis shoes. I am not in the game but if I were I would find women who liked that look.

Basically bear men type loves.

I would find out where they go and make sure I show up there lookin as good as I could.

When I was in the game I dressed like a player. I looked like a player and walked like a player. I stood like one and was one with every cell in my body.

My INTENTION was I was a player and with that intention set the law of attraction bought to me over 100 women who wanted to be played.

I was their life lesson and I tried to teach it well so that they could get over it and not have to deal with my type again. If they were stuck on stupid they would find another player type to teach them.

My point is don't hate the player AND don't hate the game. The game of life just is. Either accept it or stand at the window and watch others who do move forward.

I understood my role.

PUA's do not. They are a abomination in my eyes. Nerds and geeks trying to do what real players and seducers do with no real connection to the flow and art of the game.

to be continued below:

[PlayerSupreme]

Baffoon, jesters, hobglobs is the best I can call them

I see them in night clubs and I can spot a pua real quick. They hunt in large packs for strength not realizing that this diminishes each males strength and energy.

They laugh when they get shot down as if it's funny but you can see the pain in their bodies.

They stare at EVERY fine girl who walks near them and start talking and pushing one of them to "MAN UP" and walk over.

They ignore the rules of the game and they pay dearly for it.

I get the guys who wake up and realize it's not working for them on my site and I have to show them the reality of the game. And then start to show them how to get in where they can fit in.

Yes this game is partially about looks but don't go there with me on that.

It's also about who you are inside. How you carry yourself and your aura or energy. It is how you walk into a venue and how you stand or sit. How you carry yourself. How much you believe that although she might be a dime (10) but your a hundred dollar bill.

It's about knowing the real truth of the game. Women want relationships but not with weak men.

Knowing how it's in womens genes and programming from the dawn of time to find strong dominante males to breed with.

Nerds do not project this so they miss out. Jocks from school do. So they got laid.

It's about re training a group of men how to become more manly.

That is what all of these so called gurus should be teaching not tricks and gimics. If I see one more asian guy wearing a mohawk that is dyed stupidly I will lose my mind.

enough said...rant over.

[PlayerSupreme]

Originally Posted by tomn8er

Since Steve mentioned that a lot of his readers are involved in the Pickup Artist community I thought I'd do you guys a favour and introduce you to one of the best teachers in the business: Player Supreme. I'm sure a lot of the people who are into this sort of thing have already heard about Supreme and may already know what he is about, but if not, here's a short video intro:
Who is Player Supreme

He's got literally hundreds of podcasts about how to pick up women, from general advice on how to be a "real man", the LOA, and developing the courage to approach women, to specific techniques on how to build rapport and seduce them. I bought his material on CD about 2 years ago but you can also listen to some of his more recent stuff for free at Zenmack. I remember one podcast where he mentions that he used to count how many women he had slept with but stopped bothering to keep track after two hundred or so!

I'm not affiliated with this guy at all, and I'm not even using his material anymore - I decided that becoming a player wasn't the right path for me. But even still, I've found that his general message of becoming "a real man" really helped me out with my romantic/sexual life so if you're having trouble getting girls or are serious about becoming a seduction pro you should check him out.

actually it's zenmack.com/forums

On the front of my site I have a old blog that I don't use very much. I have a free section of my forum at the address above.

and visitors can find my shows at:

playersupreme.libsyn.com

I hope I am not breaking any promo rules by correcting this info here. If I am just delete this post.

I already know some dude is gonna call me a marketer and I will answer , yes I am.

[Daffy Duck]

Great rant, PlayerSupreme. Many nuggets of wisdom in there.