A recommendation for those of you in the PUA community

[Xanafax]

So PlayerSupreme let me get this right.

Only people who are good at dating, will benefit from the PUA community?

And those you so affectionately called nerds/geeks etc... should just...become the same idiots that get women?

That's really really really awful advice.

[PlayerSupreme]

Originally Posted by Xanafax

So PlayerSupreme let me get this right.

Only people who are good at dating, will benefit from the PUA community?

And those you so affectionately called nerds/geeks etc... should just...become the same idiots that get women?

That's really really really awful advice.

HUH???

Where did I ever say to even use any of the PUA style??

Secondly where did I ever say that nerds or geeks or goobs would even get women?

Your post is a really really really awful response.

I am against the pua style obviously even though you seem to want to cloud the issue.

I am for guys who are nerdy becoming more manly and learning to work on their inner game and outter game to attract women instead of trying to chase every woman down in the streets. I am about them learning how to market themselves to women that they really want to meet by finding out what they truly find attractive.

Why don't you either go back and re-read my post until it sinks in or try another tactic. This one smells funny.

[jaamkie]

Originally Posted by PlayerSupreme

What many do not realize that this community was founded by and is still dominated by nerds. Yes those guys from my high school days who wore their Ti 35 calculators in their plaid short sleeved shirts pockets with pipe stem arms sticking out. You know the high school chess team goobers.

The guys women do NOT want to date. But smart gold diggers after they have had their fun will trap and settle down with. Especially if they get pregnant by some stronger type of males kid and pass that kid off as the weak man's child. Yes it does happen. You would be surprised how much so it does.

...

My concepts are straight out of first year college marketing. I talk about packaging (working out, dressing, car, crib (home), convo. I teach about developing the product itself with finding your purpose in life, following your passions, and developing your own business.

I believe these areas will help make nerds more marketable to women out there.

...

Nerds do not exist on the normal channel. Down there normal people talk and interact and joke around.

Nerd humor IS different than normal folks humor.

If you doubt me do what I call the "ENGINEER TEST" and go find a group of engineers who are super nerds and try to tell jokes to them.

No offense to any engineers here but you know you guys are a different strange breed of males.

Programmers are almost as bad and I used to study programming way back in it's dawn ages.

I was a bookworm which is another breed of guys who were kicked out of the dating arena. Nerds, bookworms, geeks, goobers, spongebob square pants or nice guys and creepy shy guys, are considered wierd by the regular folks off the internet.

We are all ostracized from the dating world for our own eccentricities.

...

Next let me address the market place demographics.

Not all of the guys within this community are caucasians. In fact there is a large asian and south east asian population listening to these guys thinking one game size fits all.

Being a minority I know how hard it is to date outside of the race for women. With the fear of pregnancy looming every time a caucasian woman has sex with a black male she is at risk. With her family looking at her side ways and her friends and peers doing the same it is not a easy decision for women to date outside of their races.

I know a woman who's family will not even speak to her anymore because of her dating a black man.

I am not here to throw a ficticious race card or whine about it cause I have been very successful in my marketing program (dating).

My point is these guru's need to realize who is reading their books and design their products accordingly.

I was told by one popular super masculine promotor and instructor on the phone that he won't even sell his book to a asian male and will give them their money back. I will leave him nameless.

These product ie ..e-books and seminars do not take into account that not all women are willing to cross a race line. They think that if you spit (communicate) your magic stories in their ears the women will automatically open their legs.

Not taking into account the market place where these poor suckers are trying to do this.

I am not marketable in a skin head club. Is one example of what I am saying.

I often see guru's and their followers just yell at the frustrated chumps to keep striving forth and eventually you will succeed.

Yes you will!

After how many hundred of tries?

Their average is 1- out of 100 approaches.

They do what is called shot gun marketing style.

Just aim at any hot babe who walks by. Stupid and energy wasting.

I prefer the rifle style of marketing. Narrow my market down.

I like to look like a black lumber jack. I wear plaid lumber jack shirts jeans or sweats and boots or tennis shoes. I am not in the game but if I were I would find women who liked that look.

Basically bear men type loves.

I would find out where they go and make sure I show up there lookin as good as I could.

When I was in the game I dressed like a player. I looked like a player and walked like a player. I stood like one and was one with every cell in my body.

My INTENTION was I was a player and with that intention set the law of attraction bought to me over 100 women who wanted to be played.

I was their life lesson and I tried to teach it well so that they could get over it and not have to deal with my type again. If they were stuck on stupid they would find another player type to teach them.

My point is don't hate the player AND don't hate the game. The game of life just is. Either accept it or stand at the window and watch others who do move forward.

I understood my role.

PUA's do not. They are a abomination in my eyes. Nerds and geeks trying to do what real players and seducers do with no real connection to the flow and art of the game.

to be continued below:

quite a lot in here, maybe not all of it I even disagree with (ie men strutting around calling themselves "PUAs" to cover their insecurities), but I have to say a few things.

First, I'm a woman who dates exclusively "geeks"- or at least MENSA-level intelligent men who are interested in a broad variety of topics including science, math, computers, politics, economics, arts, languages and learning about different cultures, etc. Being able to talk with someone as an equal is a HUGE turn-on, pretty much required for me to be attracted to a man. I do expect the men I date to be independent not clingy, openminded and confident, not stuck in a boring little world of insecurities, but being the "alpha-male" or worrying about how they look is not the point of their life- they have much more interesting things going on in their minds. I sort of expect my men to own TI calculators, maintain interesting collections of books, and have intelligent suggestions when I talk about my job in IT consulting.

Second, I'm a "white" woman who dates men based on who they are not the damn color of ther skin, and I'm currently dating a "black" guy. I'm offended that you imply that all women discriminate based on race because they want their child to be "pure" not mixed. Perhaps there are some bigoted women out there, just as there are some bigoted men, but to claim that most/all women are such is highly insulting and just plain false.

Finally, women are not "played"- healthy women don't have to be tricked or bribed into having sexual relationships with men who treat them with respect. Of course, there are all sorts of men and women out there, if you believe that geeks can't get a date, that white women don't want mixed babies, and that women are just looking for a man with lots of money, then I'm sure you'll attract those sort of people into your life. But please stop poisoning the minds of others who might not yet be burdened by these false beliefs.

[PlayerSupreme]

Originally Posted by jaamkie

quite a lot in here, maybe not all of it I even disagree with (ie men strutting around calling themselves "PUAs" to cover their insecurities), but I have to say a few things.

First, I'm a woman who dates exclusively "geeks"- or at least MENSA-level intelligent men who are interested in a broad variety of topics including science, math, computers, politics, economics, arts, languages and learning about different cultures, etc. Being able to talk with someone as an equal is a HUGE turn-on, pretty much required for me to be attracted to a man. I do expect the men I date to be independent not clingy, openminded and confident, not stuck in a boring little world of insecurities, but being the "alpha-male" or worrying about how they look is not the point of their life- they have much more interesting things going on in their minds. I sort of expect my men to own TI calculators, maintain interesting collections of books, and have intelligent suggestions when I talk about my job in IT consulting.

Second, I'm a "white" woman who dates men based on who they are not the damn color of ther skin, and I'm currently dating a "black" guy. I'm offended that you imply that all women discriminate based on race because they want their child to be "pure" not mixed. Perhaps there are some bigoted women out there, just as there are some bigoted men, but to claim that most/all women are such is highly insulting and just plain false.

Finally, women are not "played"- healthy women don't have to be tricked or bribed into having sexual relationships with men who treat them with respect. Of course, there are all sorts of men and women out there, if you believe that geeks can't get a date, that white women don't want mixed babies, and that women are just looking for a man with lots of money, then I'm sure you'll attract those sort of people into your life. But please stop poisoning the minds of others who might not yet be burdened by these false beliefs.

Well let me answer your answering me:

1. Your one of the few women out there who do look beyond color. I have dated way over 100 "white" women and have done numerous question asking periods. My point is that I don't just throw it up there without back up.

2. I, on my shows have always applauded women like you who can look beyond color and race and all the crap that floats around out there.

3. You do not speak for the whole but your voice was heard. As for messing up the minds you should ask around before you try to speak for the whole. I did. And I lived it. I understood it also and I had no problem with knowing the truth. I just worked around it. You were not there when I was out in the dating arena. You were not there when I had women pulled away from me and scolded for dancing with a black man. I wish more like you were.

4. I only went for intelligent women such as yourself and did just fine in my dating life.

5. As for hating players. Don't hate the player and don't hate the game. It just is.

6. In a recent interview with a very successful Jewish/Caucasian female attorney (yes I do interview women to learn the truth) who was raised in the
Hollywood jungle scene made a interesting comment about how women of culture tended to date people who resembled them and their own race.

In getting her to elaborate she talked about the exact same things I have mentioned with minority issues. So you young lady are a special individual to not let color blind you.

7. As for geeks and nerds and goobers dating super hot chicks DO NOT LIKE super smart guys. You should study human development and a bit of history.

[supertom]

Most guys dont like PUA because they are beta males, they just act the nice guy part and spend their days wondering why they arent getting layed.

Theres a light side and darkside to it, ofcourse, but a lot of these guys actually end up getting into PD.

[jaamkie]

Originally Posted by PlayerSupreme

Well let me answer your answering me:

1. Your one of the few women out there who do look beyond color. I have dated way over 100 "white" women and have done numerous question asking periods. My point is that I don't just throw it up there without back up.

2. I, on my shows have always applauded women like you who can look beyond color and race and all the crap that floats around out there.

3. You do not speak for the whole but your voice was heard. As for messing up the minds you should ask around before you try to speak for the whole. I did. And I lived it. I understood it also and I had no problem with knowing the truth. I just worked around it. You were not there when I was out in the dating arena. You were not there when I had women pulled away from me and scolded for dancing with a black man. I wish more like you were.

4. I only went for intelligent women such as yourself and did just fine in my dating life.

5. As for hating players. Don't hate the player and don't hate the game. It just is.

6. In a recent interview with a very successful Jewish/Caucasian female attorney (yes I do interview women to learn the truth) who was raised in the
Hollywood jungle scene made a interesting comment about how women of culture tended to date people who resembled them and their own race.

In getting her to elaborate she talked about the exact same things I have mentioned with minority issues. So you young lady are a special individual to not let color blind you.

7. As for geeks and nerds and goobers dating super hot chicks DO NOT LIKE super smart guys. You should study human development and a bit of history.

Perhaps the communities we each live in are too vastly different to compare, because I don't see myself as going against any cultural expectations or doing anything odd when dating without regard to race. While I don't keep count, I feel like there are many mixed couples in my community, my cousin has had "black" and "Hispanic" boyfriends and an adopted mixed stepsister, and no one I personally know has ever had a word to say about the color of skin of my boyfriend (though of course have interest in his cultural upbringing, as he immigrated to the US as an adult).

Hollywood is ridiculously obsessed with skin color (seeming to think all humans should be an unnatural shade of orange... sigh), along with every other superficial trait and potential divisive controversy- but Hollywood is not an accurate representation of average Americans. We do live in the shadows of a horrible racially-segregated past (differing average inherited wealth and resources for parenting, historically segregated communities and schools and healthcare and especially churches, differing cultural expectations and family traditions, and a legacy of discriminatory marriages so the majority of Americans may still be identified by a single "race"), but on an individual level the Americans I know, when given the opportunity to get to know someone, do see and respond to the person first, and "race" only as part of the person's cultural identity and life experience.

I have yet to hear anyone I personally know say that they care about the color of skin of their lover or child, and can think of many examples of families I know that obviously don't care. I don't deny racism is an institutionalized historical issue we are still dealing with, particularly when we still have majority-black or majority-white schools, communities, and churches, which limit opportunities for interaction between people of different backgrounds; but I think that, given a chance to interact and get to know a man, no woman I know would reject a man simply because of the color of his skin.


As far as intelligence and geeks and "super hot chicks", it is difficult to debate because the labels are not so clear- who I call a "geek" might not be who you call a "geek", who you consider "super hot" might not be who I or others consider "super hot", and on an internet forum we can't to point to shared friends and explain our standards. But I'll try to explain what I mean anyway...

I consider a "geek" to be anyone who is excessively curious about the way things work and the reasons behind them, anyone who goes out of their way to learn about and play with complex systems, anyone who is drawn to knowledge work and invention, anyone who has a deep-seated insistence on what is "right" rather than what is socially expedient. I don't know why these traits tend to come together in an identifiable seemingly-inborn "geek" personality across cultures, though I might hypothesize it is related to the same genes that cause autism. I identify myself as a "geek", though I don't know people who initially meet me would identify me as such- I had an ex who once told me he thought I was a "mass communications major" rather than a CS major; I've had creative writing instructors in disbelief that I was planning a career in IT; I enjoy conversations about a wide range of topics, not just technology and science; I draw and love nature and am also interested in travel/cultures and family and spirituality; generally I don't quite fit into the little stereotype the world considers "female geek".

As far as relationships, I've dated non-geeks, but found I quickly grow dissatisfied with the conversations and that the relationships don't get very deep- our mental approaches to the world were too different to feel truly understood by the other. I think the different mental habits can cause a disconnect in social situations between geeks and non-geeks, but there is nothing inherently "wrong" with thinking as a geek. Though I'm quite capable of interacting successfully with non-geeks, my most personally enjoyable and relaxing conversations have been with other geeks, where I don't have to stop myself from going off on detailed tangents or dreaming about "what if...?" or making odd/humorous associations. I think geeks are perceived as socially-inept by non-geeks because each assumes their own perception of reality is most accurate, and since non-geeks are the majority, geeks are the ones who mostly have to adapt to participate in social situations, including relationships.

However I think genetic physical attractiveness is spread equally regardless of "geekiness" (though geeks may spend less time/effort enhancing their attractiveness) and so there are some "hot chicks" who are also geeks and who appreciate relating to geek men. I agree if a geeky man wants to maximize relations with "hot chicks" of any sort, he ought to learn to relate to the majority- non-geeks; but I also think many men want relationships where the woman understands and appreciates their mind and interests, in which case I want to let guys know, attractive female geeks do exist, and you don't have to change who you are for us to be attracted to you (though I do want to say that all people need to work on emotional maturity and respect for others if they want to sustain happy relationships, geeks as much as anyone else)

[PlayerSupreme]

Well I live in Sacramento California. And like I said I did bother polling and asking questions and most importantly...

Lived through it.

By your standards I could go into a skin head club and meet white women. And that would be stupid on my part.

I guess we all don't live in the world of academia.

You also must have mixed children. My own father is mixed so I mean no offense to your kids. 3 of my 4 grandsons are also mixed race from white to filipino.

You sit in your ivory tower not aware of how the real world runs and I envy you that. I live in the real world day to day.

That is the difference of where you come from and I come from.

I have seen in my humble little town of Sacramento one girlfriend with a black eye from her father who was a school principle from dating me when I was in my late 20's and her a year younger.

I have seen a entire family ostracize another daughter for dating me.

I have seen so much in the REAL world that it would curly your ivory teeth back in your ivory tower.

I used to date women like you. Well educated. They were easy to use the poor me I am a black man in a white world thing on. Your type don't see color as the rest of the world does. It made it easier for me to do what I was doing back then.

Sure your gonna post up some hateration for my past. That is ok but save yourself the time and effort. It won't effect me. Not once little ounce.

My reference to super hot chicks is in reference to what these white kids like. Skinny pretty face type of girls. Girls I no longer date because I personally can't stand em.

I like real women with curves myself. At almost 50 years of age I made the decision several years ago to quit dating 18-24 year olds and to even leave the early 30 year olds alone and only date women in their 40's.

It was a head decision not a dyck decision.

By your words you don't fit the pattern these kids admire in women.

I say to each his own.

Like you I would prefer a good conversation along with a good roll in the hay. When I would ask these kids about old tv shows like "Get Smart" they had NO idea what I was talking about.

But, my question (s) to you is why are you in this section if you have a man "blackman" in your life?

How did you even know of this post?

And, lastly why even respond to something that is beyond your control?

[jaamkie]

Originally Posted by PlayerSupreme

Well I live in Sacramento California. And like I said I did bother polling and asking questions and most importantly...

Lived through it.

By your standards I could go into a skin head club and meet white women. And that would be stupid on my part.

I guess we all don't live in the world of academia.

You also must have mixed children. My own father is mixed so I mean no offense to your kids. 3 of my 4 grandsons are also mixed race from white to filipino.

You sit in your ivory tower not aware of how the real world runs and I envy you that. I live in the real world day to day.

That is the difference of where you come from and I come from.

I have seen in my humble little town of Sacramento one girlfriend with a black eye from her father who was a school principle from dating me when I was in my late 20's and her a year younger.

I have seen a entire family ostracize another daughter for dating me.

I have seen so much in the REAL world that it would curly your ivory teeth back in your ivory tower.

I used to date women like you. Well educated. They were easy to use the poor me I am a black man in a white world thing on. Your type don't see color as the rest of the world does. It made it easier for me to do what I was doing back then.

Sure your gonna post up some hateration for my past. That is ok but save yourself the time and effort. It won't effect me. Not once little ounce.

My reference to super hot chicks is in reference to what these white kids like. Skinny pretty face type of girls. Girls I no longer date because I personally can't stand em.

I like real women with curves myself. At almost 50 years of age I made the decision several years ago to quit dating 18-24 year olds and to even leave the early 30 year olds alone and only date women in their 40's.

It was a head decision not a dyck decision.

By your words you don't fit the pattern these kids admire in women.

I say to each his own.

Like you I would prefer a good conversation along with a good roll in the hay. When I would ask these kids about old tv shows like "Get Smart" they had NO idea what I was talking about.

But, my question (s) to you is why are you in this section if you have a man "blackman" in your life?

How did you even know of this post?

And, lastly why even respond to something that is beyond your control?

I do hate when people say that certain lifestyles or experiences are not "the REAL world"- sure my experience isn't the only possibility, sure I've never known of an actual "skinhead club" no less been to one, but my life is as real to me as yours is to you. Also, while I personally am geeky/"intellectual" (maybe... I don't see myself as "intellectual", but I can see how I might get called that), I wouldn't classify my upbringing as "Ivory Tower"- my family, while well-off enough, are entrepreneurs, not academics- none of them have graduate degrees, and as a kid I grew up working at the family tennis club- cleaning, doing maintenance and wiring, answering phones, helping customers, eventually doing the bookkeeping. I live in Arlington VA and work in DC- I don't live in some little white-rich-liberal college town where the occasional non-white is a nonthreatening cute token of diversity- I see the lasting effects of segregation and economic inequality in my daily life (as well as of colonization and international economic imbalances, as I live in a neighborhood with many Asian and Hispanic immigrants), but I also see people who on an individual level at least are not racist (though you can argue damn politics all day- my family are libertarian-republicans who would cut social spending if possible...). Anyway, just sayin a lot of your stereotypes there are inaccurate, and I resent being pigeonholed.

Secondly, the "poor blackman" thing is not why I date who I date, I think that sounds patronizingly awful. I date men who attract me, who I can relate to, who I respect and feel are my equal, and sometimes those men happen to not be white. My boyfriend is educated, works in the same field as I do, and is at least as "geeky" as myself- I don't see him as some "pity case" by any means. I also don't see myself as particularly not a "hot chick", though it is hard to objectively rate myself. I do get honked at and approached on the street, in stores, trains, and bars/clubs if I go to them; but that's not my identity in life, I want to attract men with my mind and personality not my looks, and I've had mostly negative experiences when going out with men who introduced themselves based on physical attraction- they're fine for an evening, but too boring for a relationship, and obnoxiously persistent when I try to brush them off. I just... I'm not dating geeky guys cos I can't get anyone else- I prefer to date geeks because they understand me on a level non-geeky high-social-status guys never have.

Finally, I read this post because I generally read the posts on this forum, particularly when I'm working from home, not socializing with coworkers, and so want to interact while tethered to my laptop. I respond to any threads that provoke a response from me. This one in particular bothered me because my experience is different than you described, and I wanted to explain why I see things differently. This is not exclusively a "pickup" or dating forum, it is about all relationships, and as a geeky person, I need all the insight I can get into social interaction and the minds of "normal people".

[PlayerSupreme]

1. I doubt that you will find any normal people on this forum. Look at the title where is says "for Smart People." In fact normal folks rarely come onto the internet and find forums like this.

2. Business owners huh. Good for you. Must of been a good upbringing.

3. So your a egghead. I guessed as much. My favorite type of female to interact with. So few out there can keep up mentally. There is nothing more sexy than taking a intellectual nerd woman and developing not only her mind but her body to create a new type of nerd.

4. Don't take the nerd label as a offense as I know your gonna do. Take it as a compliment. If you weren't one I wouldn't even be holding a conversation with you.

5. You live in one of the most racist cities around. I find it hard to believe that you have not been exposed to it on some levels. I use the term real world because when this lower society that the "normals" live in sometimes collide with you upper echelon folks, you guys get your hair blown back. Watch any news program at the local airport. "I can't believe those people would act that way."

6. Another good thing about smart women is that you guys read stuff on improving your relationships as your doing by surfing this forum. Your type will read up on how to better please your man. But, your never satisfied. It is almost like some kind of elusive unobtainable dream of perfection that your searching for which I am sure you will deny it 100% but that is ok.

7. But your eager learners also. That is what smart folks do. Learn shyt. It's your type that will take a class on how to give a perfect dyck sukin or something like that. And, you are smart enough to listen when your man is saying something. Unlike stupid people or women.

8. Its good you found a cohabitant nerd to nestle up with. Good luck to you and yours.