What do women find REALLY unattractive in men?

[Rose of Cairo]

Originally Posted by Plato

Rose of Cairo: I just noticed one of your posts so I'm commenting on that as an example of the difficulties here. You are disputing claims about what women in general tend to be attracted to with anecdotal evidence about what you personally like. You are a very unique and wonderful person, and I'm sure we're all interested in how to sweep you off your feet, but you are not every woman.

Nobody is every woman, a woman interested only in a guy's behavior is not every woman either.

I simply dislike generalizations based on gender stereotypes. I think they're not supportive of genuine communication. We're all very unique and wonderful persons. Making assumptions about people based on their gender (or even teaching them to conform to such stereotypes) takes a lot of beauty out of life IMO. If you (not talking specifically to you Plato) meet a woman and want to sweep her off her feet, then instead of thinking "Ah, boobs => woman => interested in behavior => let's show I'm an alpha male", look at this unique individual in front of you, and try to find out who they really are (and what they're really interested in).

I also think there can be no objective statistics about what women in general like, because the reality we perceive is a reflection of our beliefs. So if you believe that women are mostly interested in behavior, then you'll find plenty of women and studies to back this up. I don't believe that women are mostly interested in behavior, so in my reality, that's totally not the case. Who's right, huh? Nobody.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Nobody is every woman, a woman interested only in a guy's behavior is not every woman either.

Red herring.

I simply dislike generalizations based on gender stereotypes.

We're talking about generalizations based on experience of what actually generates attraction. Sure they aren't perfect but who cares? Most of us are aware that taking them as gospel would be silly.

I think they're not supportive of genuine communication.

I'm not sure I know what genuine communication is if it's not allowed to include assumptions about how other people will respond to us.

We're all very unique and wonderful persons. Making assumptions about people based on their gender (or even teaching them to conform to such stereotypes) takes a lot of beauty out of life IMO.

Our whole sense of reality is based on assumptions and people do conform to stereotypes without being taught to. It's not assumptions that are the real enemy Rose... it's harmful ones. In this case the aim is entirely positive for everyone involved. Isn't it in the benefit of women to have men who aren't total chumps, or overcompensating jackasses?

If you (not talking specifically to you Plato) meet a woman and want to sweep her off her feet, then instead of thinking "Ah, boobs => woman => interested in behavior => let's show I'm an alpha male", look at this unique individual in front of you, and try to find out who they really are (and what they're really interested in).

As a woman you won't realise this, but from a man's perspective it is very apparent that women are not interested in "getting to know you" in that way, until there is some attraction there. Sure attraction doesn't take a long time to build (maybe a few minutes) but it's got to come first. Then the rapport building you want will be the rest of the relationship.

I also think there can be no objective statistics about what women in general like, because the reality we perceive is a reflection of our beliefs. So if you believe that women are mostly interested in behavior, then you'll find plenty of women and studies to back this up. I don't believe that women are mostly interested in behavior, so in my reality, that's totally not the case. Who's right, huh? Nobody.

I don't know what all this chat is about behaviour. It's fairly obvious that there are many important factors which are necessary... physical, monetary (you wouldn't date a tramp would you.. would you? ), personality (that's behaviour).

Anyway, in summary I'd just say don't be a hater and be patient. We're all just trying our best!!

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

Here, this: VETEMENT HOMME - Débardeur blanc

Oh,wife beaters,as they call them? LOL I actually like these if its on the right guy (but not when its on a low life woman beater on Cops LOL)

[fitx3]

Originally Posted by Plato

I think I'd rather jerk off.

Why so defensive? Are you skinny and cheap?

[fitx3]

Originally Posted by kpreston

Cheap girls. Nothing is sexier than a girl willing to split the check (and really mean it).

I thought we were talking about guys here, not girls!

[fitx3]

Originally Posted by Elrond

Only after you've done my laundry and made me dinner.

Win the girl over with a drink first.....then maybe she'll do your laundry and cook you dinner!

[driven1]

Originally Posted by fitx3

Why so defensive? Are you skinny and cheap?

Well, the idea that a man has bribe a woman to engage in conversation is pretty lousy, IMO. It sets the frame that the man is a lowly piece of dirt not worthy of her attention. It's a pretty unhealthy social convention.

I mean, what if you walked up and wanted to say hi to me, and I countered with, "Sure, just give me $5 first. Great, thanks. Okay, you got 5 minutes. Impress me!"

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by fitx3

Win the girl over with a drink first.....then maybe she'll do your laundry and cook you dinner!

Yeah... with stress on the maybe !

Not fair!

[robc]

Originally Posted by Elrond

Yeah... with stress on the maybe !

Not fair!

If you offer to buy a drink for a woman to get her to talk to you isn't that a form of manipulation?!

I buy you this so that you will do this for me.

Isn't the same as the example that alot of women particularly hate, when a man buys a woman dinner and expects to have some sort of physical "relations" with her afterwards. That is manipulation.

There is no difference in either of these examples.

What I find interesting is that a women suggested the first one (buy a drink example).

Dating can be difficult, that's why I would suggest on line dating if you don't like the bar scene, cuts through the riff raff, browse through pics and read bio's and the rejection you may encounter from someone saying no to your request for meeting/date will be much less than what you would experience in person.

And you won't be accused of manipulation either.

Here is a question, when does a man get to call a women on being manipulative?

Back to the original question, the biggest attraction killer for women is men who are needy. If you are a man who has a clue about where you are headed in life, are self-sufficient, have a job, have some ambition, are funny and good natured and take care of yourself (you don't have to be an adonis but going to the gym every now & then, not being a slob, etc.), you cover most of the areas that would get women to be attracted to you.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by fitx3

Why so defensive? Are you skinny and cheap?

Fraid so. But I shower at least once a month, whether I need it not.

[fitx3]

Okay....let me help you guys out a little bit here. This is coming from a woman's perspective. A woman who is on the other side of this idea. Driven1 I think you are missing it completely. It's NOT about bribing a woman to talk to you, it's about setting a first impression that says you are generous. Ask any woman if she would rather get to know a man who was generous or cheap. I am pretty sure most women would rather be in the company of a man who could provide. Say you walk into a café, club or any other establishment where women are hanging out and you notice an attractive female looking in your direction. If she is giving you clues that she's interested, BUY HER A DRINK! Or at least offer to get her something else. I'm not saying you should be a chump and buy all her drinks, no. The key is to be sure she's interested in you first, then invest in a $5 drink to make her feel that she is special enough to be provided with a "gift." If you can't afford a $5 drink, then maybe you should try meeting women in other places like the grocery store or a museum. Try to think of it in terms of giving that will come back around to you. We all understand that don't we?

Let me tell you how I feel when someone offers me a drink when I am out with the girls. If I see someone attractive, one that I would like to get to know better I will look in his direction, stare at him for about 3 seconds, smile then move my gaze in another direction. If he picks up the clue that I'm into him and by his return stares, I will realize he's into me too, I will wait to see what happens next. Does he come over and introduce himself or does he hang back and ask a waitress to replenish my drink? If a waitress asks me what I want, I will accept the offer and once I get the drink I will go up to him to thank him personally. At that point things are already in motion. The guy is attractive and has established the fact that he isn't cheap so we have a connection that has the potential of developing into something deeper! If this guy comes up to me and hangs out to talk but at no time offers to buy me a drink, he gives out the impression that he's either cheap or doesn't have enough money to continue to party. That's fine...You have just placed yourself in line to become a friend. But hey, there's nothing wrong with that though. Women don't mind having male friends and there is always that possibility of becoming more than friends later, just make sure to step out of the way when that one attractive man WANTS to buy me a drink!

[driven1]

I'm reasonably well-off, and generous to my friends & family, but I would NEVER, EVER date a woman who wanted me for my money. I suppose this is a good filter for both of us.

I suspect that most guys wouldn't mind the occasional tribute, however. I suspect most guys are completely fine with this.

Look, I completely understand the buy-her-a-drink dance. I just think it's an unhealthy reinforcement of harmful sexual stereotypes (the man provides the money, the woman provides the sex) and I decline to play. This has the bonus side-effect of weeding out women who are locked into that mindset, such as yourself. I provide my value to women in other ways: personality, conversation, confidence, intelligence, empathy, excitement, love, sex, etc.

Again, let's turn your scenario around:

Say you (fitx3, in this case) walk into a café, club or any other establishment where men are hanging out and you notice an attractive man looking in your direction. If he is giving you clues that he's interested, BUY HIM A DRINK! Or at least offer to get him something else. I'm not saying you should be a chump and buy all his drinks, no. The key is to be sure he's interested in you first, then invest in a $5 drink to make him feel that he is special enough to be provided with a "gift." If you can't afford a $5 drink, then maybe you should try meeting men in other places like the grocery store or a museum.

Do you see the problem here?

If I won't consider dating a girl unless she buys me something first to prove she's interested, what kind of narcissistic jerk would that make me?

Sometimes, early in dating, a girl *will* buy me things to get me to like her -- flowers, expensive meals, even jewelry... and to be honest it sorta breaks my heart that they think they need to do that. I just want to say, "Baby, I like YOU!"

So perhaps you can understand why some guys take umbrage at the idea they need to buy a girl something to start a conversation. But this thread is about what women find unattractive in men; I'm sure there really are plenty of women who genuinely are repulsed by men who don't buy them things. So... let's add that to the stack. Thanks for your reply.

[Hot Alpha Female]

I think what really matters is an overall sense or vibe this guy has.

People judge others by what they wear but more importantly how they carry themselves.

What I find attractive in a guy is not so much his looks. I mean I guess a tall well built guy will stand out to me instantly.

But if his shoulders are down and he looks at the ground where he walks .. then this is going to go out the door.

See what i mean? Thats why I believe body language is more important that looks.

[Elrond]

robc: Thanks man but I was joking all along!

[danas]

If I think of all the guys I really fell for, they all look different from eachother- tall, short, dark, light , fat , skinny, ugly, beautiful etc...
but they had alot in common personality wise- they were ALL: very intelligent, funny, talented, sensitive and confident (but not over confident)

In fact I even dated model types which I found very unattractive if they werent intelligent or funny enough...

[fitx3]

Originally Posted by driven1

I would NEVER, EVER date a woman who wanted me for my money. I suppose this is a good filter for both of us.

I'm really far from being materialistic so I would never date anyone for their money.

It appears that you have blown this idea of a social gesture out of proportion when you compare it to something that would be negotiated in a brothel! This is in reference to your "(the man provides the money, the woman provides the sex) and I decline to play." statement.

If a man buys me a drink, I will most often offer to buy the next round and if he doesn't refuse, I'm only happy to do so! I guess what it all comes down to is that I'm just attracted to men with a generous characteristic. This in turn brings out the giving side of me and that makes me feel good!

Remember, you can't take it with you when you die!

By the way....Have you considered that maybe when the women from your past were buying you gifts, it was because it made them feel good to do so? You shouldn't feel sorry for them. They prolly did it because they enjoyed it.

[fitx3]

Originally Posted by Plato

Fraid so. But I shower at least once a month, whether I need it not.

Hey, at least you admit that you're cheap! And I respect you for it.

I take it that water must be xpensive where you live?

[Bliss Sage]

I agree totally with driven1, and I'm surprised to find a man who takes issue with the game, because it's the first time I've known of a man who has a problem with the common game/protocol of getting sex. Many men always seem as if they're so desperate for it, they will accept it from anyone or in anyway they can, even if they may be married or otherwise committed.

I don't like reading these words, because, reading through many posts, all that glares through is a most repulsive, bilateral rapport comprised purely of manipulations and self-absorbed personal agendas, and in cases where only one party has an agenda, the other is wronged and possibly hurt.

Reading these posts, you are (I am) left wondering if any inter-gender interaction ever even has a remote fiber of something real in it. And I believe that when you dwell on and value the most shallow aspects of a human being, that's exactly what you end up with--a rapport with nothing real in it and the great potential for mutual manipulation and agenda-seeking.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by fitx3

I take it that water must be xpensive where you live?

To be honest I don't think this buying drinks thing is the big deal you're making it out to be. I don't think the toned body is either.

I work out and I do buy people drinks if I want to, but not for sex.

[driven1]

Bliss Sage, thank you for the kind words. In a way, that's the nicest thing anybody's ever said about me. Ain't gonna lie -- it's been a long road.

It frustrates me too. It's like there's this constant subtext running in any interaction between a man and a woman, sizing each other up, evaluating each other's value, each other's sex-worthiness. I understand it's necessary for mate selection, evolution, blah blah blah, but sometimes I wish it could just... stop. Stop this stupid game. Let's forget about whether you're "good enough" or I'm "good enough", both stop the posturing for position, and just enjoy each other's company, discover and share common interests, etc.

And ya know what's sad? If I ever brought up this sort of thing to a woman in real life, especially an attractive woman, she'd probably be thinking, "Bullshiat, he's trying to trick me into bed."

"Let's just be friends" should be a wonderful invitation, but instead it's almost universally given, and taken, as a wholesale rejection of a person's core sexual identity.

I need to just be friends with lesbians.

There's more discussion on this in the depressingly titled "I am giving up on male friends" thread.

[fitx3]

Originally Posted by Plato

To be honest I don't think this buying drinks thing is the big deal you're making it out to be. I don't think the toned body is either.

I work out and I do buy people drinks if I want to, but not for sex.

I completely agree with the first part of your reply but why are you so against a toned body? If you work out (in a gym) I'm sure you've seen the difference between a toned body and one that isn't. Deep down inside (whether women agree or not) are programmed to want to procreate with the man who is stronger.

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

Originally Posted by fitx3

Deep down inside (whether women agree or not) are programmed to want to procreate with the man who is stronger.

I don't buy that. I don't give a rat's ass if someone is toned. Not to mentioned you can be toned without being too strong. Looking at two guys, one average one toned, but similar in all other respects I'd take either.

I'm not saying it's bad of you to have a preference for toned guys who buy you drinks. That's all you and I'm sure there are guys who like to be toned and buy women drinks so you should be set. I just think, as usual on these threads, people come in stating things as if they're true across the board and then everyone defends their position. Basically, not every woman agrees with you and it's okay. You say whether women agree of not it's the way we're programmed, well, I must have missed programming day. My bf is kinda plump, and other than his health I don't care one bit.

Repeat after me folks, "there is no one surefire way to impress all members of the opposite sex. We are individuals."

[fitx3]

Originally Posted by {aspiring_to_clarity}

I don't buy that. I don't give a rat's ass if someone is toned. Not to mentioned you can be toned without being too strong. Looking at two guys, one average one toned, but similar in all other respects I'd take either.

I'm not saying it's bad of you to have a preference for toned guys who buy you drinks. That's all you and I'm sure there are guys who like to be toned and buy women drinks so you should be set. I just think, as usual on these threads, people come in stating things as if they're true across the board and then everyone defends their position. Basically, not every woman agrees with you and it's okay. You say whether women agree of not it's the way we're programmed, well, I must have missed programming day. My bf is kinda plump, and other than his health I don't care one bit.

Repeat after me folks, "there is no one surefire way to impress all members of the opposite sex. We are individuals."

Of course not all people will agree on every post. That's what makes these convos so interesting! I enjoy the banter and do not take things so seriously here. I hope others feel the same way.

The programming I'm speaking of is this. I just happen to agree with it. Apparently men do too according to this article below!

I'm done....I just happen to be attracted to men who are fit and generous with good oral hygiene and don't slouch. Nothing more!


Men find masculine men more threatening during their partner's ovulation phase

[funchy]

Originally Posted by robc

Here is a question, when does a man get to call a women on being manipulative?

Either can be manipulative. Speaking of turn-offs, someone who really tries at manipulation is a big turn-off. (PUAs pay attention!)

I'll do you guys one step better. Not only will I not expect the paid drink, if you ask to buy me one, I usually decline at first.

You see, if I accept the drink, I am now indebted to a stranger.

Nobody can manipulate you, if you don't let them.

Back to the original question, the biggest attraction killer for women is men who are needy.

A bigger attraction killer is a guy who is needy AND intimidated by a woman who is not. Some guys still have problems when the woman makes really good money, has a career she loves, and has interests besides just him. Even worse are the guys who don't realize they're not comfortable. Their response is to try to undermine the other person, weaken her self-esteem, discourage her from doing her hobby, keeping her from her friends, or talking her into quitting her job.

If you are a man who has a clue about where you are headed in life, are self-sufficient, have a job, have some ambition, are funny and good natured and take care of yourself (you don't have to be an adonis but going to the gym every now & then, not being a slob, etc.), you cover most of the areas that would get women to be attracted to you.

When I think of needy, I also think of people who are unhappy. They pin their happiness on having the right girlfriend/boyfriend.

Another person can give you joy but nobody can "make" you happy if you don't want to be. It's up to each of us to find our own happiness.

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by fitx3

I completely agree with the first part of your reply but why are you so against a toned body? If you work out (in a gym) I'm sure you've seen the difference between a toned body and one that isn't. Deep down inside (whether women agree or not) are programmed to want to procreate with the man who is stronger.

For a man though, he doesn't need a toned/trained body to be stronger than most women. I don't know how much a woman must train to be stronger/more fit than an average chump that doesn't train, though.

[driven1]

Originally Posted by funchy

When I think of needy, I also think of people who are unhappy. They pin their happiness on having the right girlfriend/boyfriend.

So many people do this, both men and women, I think it's safe to call it "normal behavior". Sad, unhealthy, and super-risky... but normal.

Originally Posted by funchy

Another person can give you joy but nobody can "make" you happy if you don't want to be. It's up to each of us to find our own happiness.

I'll disagree just a bit. I think another person can make you happy. But 1. that's a HUGE, unfair burden to put on somebody else, and 2. what happens if/when that person leaves?

I completely agree, though, that everybody should find their own happiness. Once you have that base, having another person to share just makes it that much better!

As a man, especially, you want to be able to invite a woman to join your wonderful life, as opposed to relying on them to give your life meaning.

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by driven1

Bliss Sage, thank you for the kind words. In a way, that's the nicest thing anybody's ever said about me. Ain't gonna lie -- it's been a long road.

Oh, you're welcome . It's been a really long road for me too, but now I'm pretty settled in my solitude, forget men and "love" and am finding other things in life. It took me x years to realize there even was a subtext or a game, and when I did, I basically became a recluse. Perpetually being misunderstood takes a toll, so I usually preferred solitude.

Originally Posted by driven1

And ya know what's sad? If I ever brought up this sort of thing to a woman in real life, especially an attractive woman, she'd probably be thinking, "Bullshiat, he's trying to trick me into bed."

Yeah, that is sad. It's sad, too, though, that that a guy might use words, any words, to get a girl to bed. I have a great solution for that, though; I don't sleep with anyone ever . So I keep my virtue and my self-respect, even if I might fall in love with a deceptive idiot who only wanted to have sex with me--I get my heart broken and he doesn't get his screw [He goes to get his screw somewhere else, but I'm left with a broken heart].

Some men can become so fixated on wanting to screw one girl in particular, he will humiliate himself over and over--I used to feel that men were like wind-up toys. A few I knew were. No matter how badly I turned them down and insulted them, he would always come back and try again after anywhere from a week to a few months. It becomes a cycle.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by Bliss Sage

I used to feel that men were like wind-up toys. A few I knew were.

Past tense? You're communicating from beyond the grave? Retro!

[lifetimelearner]

okay I'll bite

when I was younger it was looks all the way
I passed up some really nice guys because of that and ended up.........

well I won't rehash that story

now if I ever start dating again it will be for someone that takes care of themselves , has a good heart , doesn't smoke or drink and loves to laugh

but I do have one preference in the looks dept-someone taller than 5'10


so I guess the unattractive part would be -
temper,a smoker and drinker , and someone who doesn't take care of their body

[Bliss Sage]

Originally Posted by Plato

Past tense? You're communicating from beyond the grave? Retro!

Past tense, and I'm not in the grave yet . It's past tense because I don't think about that anymore, because I've not been having those experiences with men anymore. That was some years ago.

People can change if they want to, but I can still remember where I've been. I'm still in the process of moving away from it, so I might even mix tenses sometimes .