Awkward situation

[LordSappington]

So, I've managed to find myself in an awkward social situation. It's sort of a long story...

About a year ago, I started hanging out with a girl Susan (the names have been changed to protect the innocent). It was somewhat understood that we were using each other as a crutch to meet new people, but I liked having her around to talk to if anything went sour. I found new and interesting places to go to meet new people. I was hoping this would set a stage for us actually becoming friends.

We ended up at a BBQ. There, she met this undergrad, George, who was maybe 19 years old (she was 23 at the time). They talked for a bit. She told me she thought he was cute. I didn't see it, but eventually they went on some dates. She told me that he was really immature on the dates and wasn't really interested in him. But he seemed very interested in her, so she kept on going out with him. After each time, she would complain how weird and awkward he was and she wanted to break it off, but she continued going out. To me, she seemed needy and craving the attention, and I began to lose respect for the girl because she seemed to be using the guy.

Eventually, she decided to end it, and so they had a talk. He didn't take it too well. Over the next several months, he sent her lots of e-mails and called her a bunch. He showed up randomly at her workplace even though she never told him where she worked. He found out who her friends were and started talking to them. At one point, he started secretly following her around. It was really, really creepy, but in a sort of sad and pathetic way. To me, he seems completely harmless and well-intentioned, but the whole stalking thing was a bit much. She changed her phone number and they had a talking to. After that, he pretty much left her alone.

Fast forward a few months, and she starts dating this business student. He announces to her that he wants a friends with benefits situation. She says she wants a relationship. She asks me what to do. I say break it off because these two are not compatible goals. But she doesn't. This new guy has a lot of money. He takes her out to very expensive restaurants on a weekly basis. He buys her expensive gifts (he bought her an iPod). He still maintains he wants a **** buddy. Eventually, he suddenly changes his mind and they decide to start a relationship. It seems to me that she liked him for his money. He was using her for sex. The whole thing just stank.

As I've discussed before, once she was in a relationship, she pretty much stopped talking to me. She was using me to meet a guy, and when she did, I was done.

Throughout this time, George would chat with me on Facebook. Pretty much every time we both were online at the same time. It got annoying. I would log on, and I'd immediately get a message from him. I often turned off chat just to avoid him. He would ask about my work, how my weekend went, etc. It all seemed very harmless, so I tried to be polite and reply. He never talked about Susan, so I figured maybe he did actually like me.

Anyhow, last night, he messages me again. The conversation started innocuously enough, but it soon turned to Susan. He asked me how she was doing. I said that she seemed busy to me, in hopes of avoiding the subject. He asks me why she doesn't respond to his e-mails. I say I don't know. Maybe she's really busy. I try to end it by saying she has a boyfriend. Then he tells me they broke up, which he learned the last time George and Susan spent time together. This was news to me.

He then goes on this tirade about how undergraduate girls are stupid and immature. How he goes on 2-3 dates per week but hates them all. They're not all like Susan. And how it's good that she got rid of him because "he wasn't really what she needed." I have no idea why he thought he knew what she needed. He goes on talking about how great they were together and how much he learned. I end the conversation saying, "I don't like talking about my friends behind their back, even if we're only saying good things."

So he says, "I respect that, but let me ask you about something else." There is this other graduate student who is too busy to talk to him. But he's trying to win her over. I first take him at his word, but it soon becomes clear to me that he's *still* talking about Susan but thinks he can get away with it by not calling her by name. He talks about how things went well the *second* time they started dating, but now things are going sour. But he's grown a lot and is inspired by this girl.

Eventually, he asks for my advice. I try to tell him that he's infatuated with this girl and is trying to fill a void in himself by spending time with her. He doesn't seem to get this. He keeps on talking about doing things to change her mind.

So, it seems that Susan broke up with her old boyfriend. She rebounded with George. And now she's screwing with his head *again* by doing the whole passive aggressive "I like you I don't routine." And George thinks I can solve this. I want none of this. I've lost a tremendous amount of respect for Susan throughout this whole ordeal; not only did she dump me as a friend, but I also see how incredibly manipulative she is. George is a very creepy stalker and has very immature views on relationships. I want nothing to do with either of them.

So, what do I do? I want to do the right thing, both morally and what will benefit everyone the most. Should I just push this guy away? He seems to value my input in a sincere way, but I think he's subconsciously using me to get to Susan. The entire situation just wreaks of badness from everyone involved. Your input is helpful.

[spookie149]

If it were me, I'd stop talking to him. It's clear he's just using you to pump information about Susan. Even if you don't like the way she's been treating him, this guy is still using you. Do you two hang out at all together? Go for dinner, watch a movie, etc? Or do you just chat on facebook where the conversation eventually gets turned to Susan? If it's the latter, he is using you. Maybe you don't want to be mean and tell him to leave you alone, but he is also being rude by using you.

[LordSappington]

Originally Posted by spookie149

If it were me, I'd stop talking to him. It's clear he's just using you to pump information about Susan. Even if you don't like the way she's been treating him, this guy is still using you. Do you two hang out at all together? Go for dinner, watch a movie, etc? Or do you just chat on facebook where the conversation eventually gets turned to Susan? If it's the latter, he is using you. Maybe you don't want to be mean and tell him to leave you alone, but he is also being rude by using you.

Over the past 1.5 years, he's mentioned several times that he wants to get together to hang out.At the time, I wanted nothing to do with him because of the whole stalker thing. He mentioned again last night, suggesting that we meet up over winter break. We haven't hung out before, mainly due to my reservations in doing so. The conversations never mentioned Susan until last night.

I feel like a jerk pushing people away like that. It's not very often that people actively pursue my company. I think he's sincere in his desire to befriend me, but I also think he has an ulterior motive.

[Dan.Linehan]

Why be friends / talk to any of the people you mentioned? I wouldn't..

[Dan.Linehan]

Let me put that another way..

You lost respect for Susan. That happens sometimes when you know a person over a long enough time line. I don't even really consider people friends until I know them for a few years, for just that reason.

So, who are the people you do respect, and why aren't you busy hanging out with them?

[JSB]

I'm sure that these are decent people underneath it all, and I'm sure they have some great qualities. However, they sound way too melodramatic and they don't seem to be adding anything positive to your life. Friendships should augment your life, not sap the joy from it.

I'd wish them all the best, make a clean break, and go find some non-manipulative, non-stalker people whose company you actually enjoy.

[ns123]

Stay out of it.

It sounds to me, that everything you wrote here, is all about Susan and her issues. Why are you involving yourself? Sure, they ask your advice, but you seem to be agonizing over something that's really not your business.

My advice, stay out of it. do not meet up with George. Do not remain friends with Susan. It seems you keep putting yourself into situations in which you are used. First with Susan using you to meet guys. Now with George who wants to hang with you cuz he wants info about Susan.

Drop both friendships. If they ask you for advice, you can say, "You can work through this, and I'm sorry, I have decided to stay out of this situation." My guess is, they will stop calling.

[studentmaster]

Originally Posted by Dan.Linehan

Why be friends / talk to any of the people you mentioned? I wouldn't..

I'd stop talking to everyone in the post.

[LordSappington]

UPDATE: Based on a conversation with George, I have concluded that the other graduate student is in fact, not Susan (he mentioned them in the same sentence). But then he posed me this question: "Should he pursue the graduate student who he's getting a weak response from and might only see 'once or twice a year', or an extremely rich girl who is 'stalking him?'," with the idea that this rich girl will have him set for life. He was dead serious. He said he'd ask Susan for his opinion.

So, in conclusion, I have no idea what the truth is. I know Susan and George are now talking, despite all their disturbing history. I know that George has very, very warped ideas about romantic relationships; sadly, it seems that he has the emotional maturity of about a 12 year old. I have no idea what he wants from me. I still feel uncomfortable with the entire situation. I don't like advising people who, in my mind, are train wrecks waiting to happen.

In response to some other comments, I hang around Susan because she occasionally throws parties where some of my other friends attend. They are pretty fun, and I enjoy her company otherwise. I just think she treats men very poorly. She doesn't really treat me very poorly, aside from not talking to me once she got a boy. But that's pretty standard practice from the vast majority of my friends, so I feel like I can't exactly hold it against her.

[funchy]

I have only a few worlds of advice for you: STAY OUT OF IT.

If George is seriously thinking about hooking up with an unsuitable mate just because she might buy him stuff, then there's going to be problems down the line. If you tell him to do it, he'll blame you later when it goes bad. If you tell him not to, he'll ignore you or turn angry (defensiveness). The best you can do as a good friend is to be there to listen and give emotional support.

If Susan and her friends tend to ditch their friends each time they get a new boyfriend/girlfriend, that says something about what kind of people they are. I vote you look for friends somewhere else.

[Alexjstrandberg]

I'd push the guy and the girl away from you. They both seem to bringing you down. You shouldn't have to post on a forum about your "friends." Yeah there will be times that friendship get tested but not to this extreme.

Normally I would say tell the guy but it strongly seems like he won't be waking up to what's going on any time soon. It's sad but in these types of situations you have to let him hit rock bottom in order to change his behavior. No amount of trying to convincing will get through to him-he has to learn this lesson for himself.

It also seems that there is something that can be learned on your part. We attract certain people into our lives in order to learn and grow. You have attracted two people who use others for their own validation. There is no coincidence there.

[strangelove]

This is rather like a situation I have known, and which ended up badly hurting me. You need to get away from these individuals. If you carry on indulging them because you feel for them, you'll end up getting badly burned.