Virgin

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by David21

Well, I can certainly see your point. I think a person estimates their own self-worth by how others treat them, speak with them and value them and if this is not something you have had much of then your confidence will be at rock bottom. I know mine is!

I'm glad to hear someone else admit this. It seems like most people in here are quick to say "but if you have confidence in yourself,others will too!" that has only worked for me in situations where i was actually good at whatever it was. If i am not good at verbal communication,just being confident about it isnt going to make me good at it. You can try faking it,but that only works while you are putting conscious thought to it,so it requires constant thinking and hard work,IF you are lucky and dont slip up.

I kinda know how you feel in this respect because I too lack the ability to verbally communicate with skill, or at least, not at first anyway. I always stammer and mix my words up in my sentences - its really annoying because people interpret it wrongly. Once a person gets to know me I find that I start to open up and talk well. Admittedly, I do still have this stammer occasionally but it is nothing like what it is when I first talk to someone.

Yes! Me too! Sometimes i wonder why i even stammer when talking to people i've known for years but it happens,and thats proof that whatever you are feeling or thinking inside,you are either good at something or youre not. I stammer talking to my closest friends and my own brother most of the time!

Is it that you are too picky or that you know who is right for you? I've wondered whether I am too picky but then I realize that I just know what is right for me and what is not. Perhaps you're the same?

Well both i think...i'm picky as far as looks but personality and moral-wise,i know what is right for me there.

Try and meet people who don't refer to you as 'babe' upon first seeing you - it's more likely an indication of how much respect they will have for you.

Well that is why i have a hard time finding a guy because 99% of them ARE that way. I only have ONE guy on my email list who isnt that way and he is married and he's not after me. It's like if a guy is trying to find a girl he automatically turns perverted but if he's married,he is normal Maybe thats why guys with girlfriends seem more attractive because they are just being themselves,they're not trying to impress anyone by buttering them up with compliments. That's why i hate dating because guys feel like they have to do that and you cant get to know them as a person because they're too busy trying to get with you or impress you so they CAN get with you.

[striving4peace]

I just had an 'attack' this morning. A friend of mine was talking to me about having orgasms being the best feeling in the world, and after a really long time of being in control of my emotions i went into lock down. I tried dealing with it by writing down what I was feeling and now I feel much better. Here is what I wrote:

"I feel horrible. like something stuck in my throat and in my gut.
cos i have deprived myself of 'the best feeling in the world'
why?
cos i was too scared. too picky. too naive. too stupid.
too ashamed of showing my own naked body to someone else till now.
when everyone else was enjoying it, i didn't. i was too stupid and scared to overcome whatever i needed to overcome to enjoy it
I could have enjoyed the best feeling in the world for the last 13 years and i didn't.
and now i am 29 and if I fall in love with whom if i don't enjoy sex, i'm doomed to have crappy sex for the rest of my life?

What have i done to myself?"

I thought I had overcome my issues, but wow, I guess I still have a possibility to regress. Any thoughts on how I can overcome this?

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by striving4peace

I just had an 'attack' this morning. A friend of mine was talking to me about having orgasms being the best feeling in the world, and after a really long time of being in control of my emotions i went into lock down. I tried dealing with it by writing down what I was feeling and now I feel much better. Here is what I wrote:

"I feel horrible. like something stuck in my throat and in my gut.
cos i have deprived myself of 'the best feeling in the world'
why?
cos i was too scared. too picky. too naive. too stupid.
too ashamed of showing my own naked body to someone else till now.
when everyone else was enjoying it, i didn't. i was too stupid and scared to overcome whatever i needed to overcome to enjoy it
I could have enjoyed the best feeling in the world for the last 13 years and i didn't.
and now i am 29 and if I fall in love with whom if i don't enjoy sex, i'm doomed to have crappy sex for the rest of my life?

What have i done to myself?"

I thought I had overcome my issues, but wow, I guess I still have a possibility to regress. Any thoughts on how I can overcome this?

You mean you've never had an orgasm by yourself? Or are you talking about what it would feel like with a guy? I have never experienced making love the way its supposed to be either,but i make up for it with,well,you know LOL

[striving4peace]

actually i am a hetero guy
and yeah i have experience orgasms but not the way it was meant to either yet.

y'know i feel perfectly fine now.
Now i'm at this state where i'm in total acceptance of the past, of the decisions i've made, aware of the situations and other factors involved - and i'd say 99% of the time these days I'm here. Dunno how I managed to regress so suddenly today morning, but I really need to do something about it.

[bluedragon]

Let me jump in here and share a little different perspective.
It has been a long time since it became extremely easy for me to attract friends of the opposite sex. This happened when I started to trust myself (trust which has gone up like crazy over time), and started to believe in the law of attraction at least at an unconscious level. I have always wanted more from a relationship than the physical aspects, but there was also a great deal of shame and low self image (low perception of the way others see me, even though I believed in me myself) - which can make you very confident when it comes to the future, but not so confident when it comes to short term actions, like going on a date. Anyway, the thing is that since I was 17, I have had 4 girls as best friends, by which I mean going out together at least once every 2 days, and talking for hours, sharing everything about each other, about our projects, doing things together, going to the theater, to concerts, to parks, even reading together. I can't believe how beautiful this sounds right now, because, like many others, I've been very frustrated with the idea that I hadn't had sexual experience when everybody else I knew had, and many of my friends considered I was missing out on what's important, and tried to counsel me.
All of these 4 relationships lasted about 4 months. These girls either had a boyfriend who they said they didn't really date very often, or didn't want to have a relationship at the time (and I wasn't very persuasive in trying to change their mind). One of them, I kissed after about 2 weeks of dating, but then she said she still couldn't forget her boyfriend, so I chilled out.
Another kissed me on our 3rd date, and then kept provoking me. Because that made me unsure of myself, I backed away - which made her decide it's better to remain just friends.
So let me just say - lack of experience CAN stop you from being with a girl you really like and with whom you have everything in common - except for experience. There is some truth to that - but it helps if you are open and really willing to take chances. It appears I wasn't.
Now it's been a while and though I still consider these girls my friends, life circumstances made it difficult for us to see each other.
There is only one I'm really still seeing, and I am yet to see what I'm gonna do about it.
The wonderful thing is that each of these girls tought me an important lesson (or several). I'm not talking about the lesson of getting to know a girl. I'm talking about really important things that I needed in life, and I feel really lucky I met them. The things I learned from them, I could never forget. And the good habits and interesting attitudes they have inspired me with - I can never be to lazy to put into practice myself if I wish to, because I learned them in such a pleasant way. For example, this girl I'm seeing made me begin studying Russian, cause she speaks it being from Moldavia. I just decided to learn it. I want to, for myself. It's crazy. And I love the idea.
I am sure that when I want, I will be able to attract the physical type of relationship. The thing is I do want, but I feel unavailable emotionally at the moment. I just went trough an extraordinary 3 months challenging trip, I just figured out my life's purpose, I started building 2 sites about healing and self improvement with SBI, and I have to keep up with my Tai Chi practice cause I want to become an instructor in 2 years. I am taking salsa and tango lessons at my university 3 days a week. I just want to organize my life and become better at doing things in their given time, and I will succeed. Then, the only thing that will not be in tip-top order and I will care about will be relationships. And then - the game can begin.

[Trezker]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

*sigh*

Will guys EVER care about anything besides sex!?

I care about a lot of things. First of all my computer and everything I do with it, programming, gaming, surfing, chatting. I care about culture, I wish to become awesome at playing a number of instruments. I care about awesome machines, motorcycles, cars, robots, cybernetic organisms.

Just a few days ago I even realized that I want to be awesome and have have awesome just for the awesomeness, not to impress anyone but myself. I wouldn't buy a car to get laid, I'd buy a car just to experience the raw sound of the engine and the joy of g-forces. The anticipation of such experiences has my heart racing just from thinking about it.

There are many feelings that are at least as good as orgasms. The joy of solving a troublesome problem can leave me with a big grin on my face for days.

[bd90]

I can relate to your situation. My first experience was with a prostitute at age 26. I am 35 and still have never been in a relationship. The truth is, I don't feel any better. Sometimes I feel ashamed that I actually had to resort to that. But sometimes I say, who cares? I do think our society tends to overvalue the act. Just like most people mentioned here, it doesn't change who you are or make you a better person for doing it. It won't validate anything about you and it shouldn't. Love who you are.

When I was younger I use to overvalue guys who got laid often thinking that they were better than me. It made me feel low. Then I realized a lot of these people are people I would never hang out with. My priorities and relationships I choose are more about people who share my same values. Screw what other people think (no pun intended). Be you.

[Daniel Becerra]

A man has two primary drives in early adulthood: one toward power, success, and accomplishment; the other toward love, companionship, and sex. To go out there to learn how to meet girls was then, to admit that I was only half a man.- Neil Strauss.

I really like this quote. But getting to the point. While sex doesn't change you in any way or another, companionship does. So your problem here is not sex, but rather your fear of getting hurt by seeking companionship. I've had a fair share (I really dont mean to brag) and I tell you, it hasn't made any greater than I was before. I still feel alone at times. I still seek love. So really, be clear about what your issue is, because I'm almost sure, it is not the issue of virginity, but rather companionship.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Trezker

I care about a lot of things. First of all my computer and everything I do with it, programming, gaming, surfing, chatting. I care about culture, I wish to become awesome at playing a number of instruments. I care about awesome machines, motorcycles, cars, robots, cybernetic organisms.

Just a few days ago I even realized that I want to be awesome and have have awesome just for the awesomeness, not to impress anyone but myself. I wouldn't buy a car to get laid, I'd buy a car just to experience the raw sound of the engine and the joy of g-forces. The anticipation of such experiences has my heart racing just from thinking about it.

There are many feelings that are at least as good as orgasms. The joy of solving a troublesome problem can leave me with a big grin on my face for days.

lol well,i guess i should have been more specific. I know guys care about things regarding THEIR life,i know they have interests and hobbies. but i meant,do they ever care about anything about a woman besides having sex with her?

[kpreston]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

lol well,i guess i should have been more specific. I know guys care about things regarding THEIR life,i know they have interests and hobbies. but i meant,do they ever care about anything about a woman besides having sex with her?

Yes.

This "all men care about is sex!" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ drives me nuts.

Learn to drive, women. (see what I did there?)

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by kpreston

Yes.

This "all men care about is sex!" ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ drives me nuts.

Learn to drive, women. (see what I did there?)

But i can prove that your comment is more ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ than mine. If women are worse drivers than men,why do insurance companies charge 3 times as much for male drivers as female drivers? Men do statistically get into more accidents than women.

And have you ever seen a woman go around in a club from man to man until she got one that said yes? Probably not,because the first man wouldn't have said no.

[Nasir]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

lol well,i guess i should have been more specific. I know guys care about things regarding THEIR life,i know they have interests and hobbies. but i meant,do they ever care about anything about a woman besides having sex with her?

Yes (depending on the type of relationship you have, and what kind of people you both are).

[striving4peace]

RockChick, please do not stereotype the whole gender. It's not the most constructive approach.

Those women are in the bar for the same reason too - to possibly get lucky tonight and mostly to find a suitable mate. But because of the way our brains and social conditioning work - it's the men who want it more and the women who get the power to select and choose. I read somewhere that the male human brain has 7 times the number of neurons related to sex as the female brain does, and even if it weren't true - honestly I just need one word to explain the reason most men are so aggressive when it comes to sex: Testosterone.

From Freud's perspective the mind has 3 parts: the ego, super ego and the Id. Some men allow their Id's desires to run free - many of them are the ones bar-hopping. Others have a strong ego that allows them to control and channel their sexual energies. And on the other extreme opposite, we have some people who have a strong super-ego - who repress or suppress their urges due to moral, social, or some other reason.

But you cannot generalize all men to be some sex craving beast. It's true we all have that component in us, but we are more than one - or even the sum of all our parts.

And personally speaking, yes - I do care a great deal for my women friends - and not because I want to have sex with them. At times I have taken care of them and I never expect anything in return.


Speaking now on the issue, one thing I've learned since the attack I had a few days ago is the amount of torture we have to endure because of the conflict of the Id and the super-ego. I'm going to just use the term 'ego' here from now.
The painful feelings that come with the thoughts "I'm a virgin", or "I haven't had enough sex", or "I haven't had enough partners" is just one way the ego is trying to torture for not getting the lofty ideals it wants for your life. According to your ego, you should be one virile stud (or one hot momma who guys are drooling after) and the proof of that would be one very active sex life/history. It could be proof to your ego that you've lived a full life, or that you're at kinda normal and at least equal to everyone else, etc.
Works the same way how having a fancy car or piles of cash work for some men, or how kids and a husband work for some women. On the surface it can be said that they've wrapped thier self esteem and net worth to these things, but the more accurate way of saying it is that the ego needs these things to validate your life.
Like Tolle said - we look to our past for identity and our future for fulfillment - thus neglecting what we truly are and have.

Steve wrote about the war on ego, and I don't agree with his approach. But then again, he has a point - a point I did manage to find in the core spiritual / philosophy texts while looking for material on this: the ego cannot be separated or vanquished. It's a part of us that can't be gotten rid of. The war on ego is pointless because it tries to destroy something that can't be destroyed.

But then what is the solution? As of now I believe it is Awareness and Detachment.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by striving4peace

RockChick, please do not stereotype the whole gender. It's not the most constructive approach.

Those women are in the bar for the same reason too - to possibly get lucky tonight and mostly to find a suitable mate. But because of the way our brains and social conditioning work - it's the men who want it more and the women who get the power to select and choose. I read somewhere that the male human brain has 7 times the number of neurons related to sex as the female brain does, and even if it weren't true - honestly I just need one word to explain the reason most men are so aggressive when it comes to sex: Testosterone.

I have never once said "all men want is sex",somebody else said that,not me. I asked a question if guys care about anything about women besides sex,i wasn't making a blanket statement. It's just hard to believe men think about anything else when all the ones i know are all about sex EXCEPT for my dad and brother but i'm assuming that is because they don't talk about sex with me And i understand the whole testosterone thing but that seems like a cop out to me. Should we just forgive them and give them what they want,only to have them get it from other women anyway? We can't control their thoughts so the only other option is to ignore them and that barely works! I know this is getting off topic so you don't have to answer if you don't want to.

[striving4peace]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

all the ones i know are all about sex EXCEPT for my dad and brother

Get to know more men from different sources

I've known some who are like the men you're talking about.
But then I've known well rounded individuals too. They care about sex, but also about a lot of other things.

You say you're not making a blanket statement but your question seems to be based on an assumption that men 'don't care about anything other than sex' when in fact that's what I'm trying to correct:

Not all men are like that.
Many men care for a lot more things than sex.

Ironically many of the men you've seem to have interacted with, probably suffer from the opposite side of the problem I've been dealing with (if you've been following my posts on this thread) - which is letting ego come in to play and deciding how much sex one must have based on how your self esteem and vision for your life is.
In other words, from what I have seen and observed - most of those sex crazy men will want to have as much sex as possible - not for the sake of sex itself, but because it will make them feel like they are 'masculine', 'manly', 'cool'. It really does become a pissing contest at the end of it, even if it's sometimes just in the head of those guys. "I've slept with so many hot women - I am awesome! I'm' having a better life than that sorry loser across the room who isn't getting any". Whether its societal conditioning or anthropological, it's pandering to lower unexamined thinking patterns.


I know you are struggling with what to do with a gender which you perceive to be a collective of mindless animals without control but with the only objective of getting into the pants of an opposite gender - and are wondering how you will find someone when you are quite different from what they're looking for. Here's my suggestion - learn to accept that almost all guys (esp young ones) will have a powerful sex drive - but try and find the ones that have *more* passions than just that. Trust me, the world wouldn't be what it is today, if it wasn't for guys who loved what they did too. And no, I don't agree with Freud when he says 'everything is about sex' including the accomplishments of man in other fields. The best jobs in life are ones you love doing even MORE than sex - the ones that give the feeling of 'flow'.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by striving4peace

Get to know more men from different sources

LOL are you saying i dont know any other men? I've known hundreds of them! Thats why i'm saying this,because out of that huge number of men i've known,the only 2 i can think of who arent obsessed with sex are my family members and i can only say that because i dont talk to them about sex obviously LOL

I've known some who are like the men you're talking about.
But then I've known well rounded individuals too. They care about sex,
but also about a lot of other things.

Well i've known well rounded individuals too,but sooner or later the sex side of them always comes out too.

You say you're not making a blanket statement but your question seems to be based on an assumption that men 'don't care about anything other than sex' when in fact that's what I'm trying to correct:

Well i am trying to beleive men care about other things and i'm sure they do but i just don't get where they are then LOL Because the ones i meet are all about sex. Even when i meet some who seem more balanced,then i find out otherwise.

I know you are struggling with what to do with a gender which you perceive to be a collective of mindless animals without control but with the only objective of getting into the pants of an opposite gender - and are wondering how you will find someone when you are quite different from what they're looking for. Here's my suggestion - learn to accept that almost all guys (esp young ones) will have a powerful sex drive - but try and find the ones that have *more* passions than just that.

Oh,well,believe me,i AM trying! I did meet a guy who did love one thing more than sex...his car! Ugh what's worse! Where are the guys who value friendship with a woman before impatiently jumping ahead to the sex part? (which then becomes the ONLY part). Where are the guys who want to get to know a girls personality BEFORE deciding if he wants to date her? Or my personal "favorite",where are the guys who can talk to you on the internet without asking "got a pic?" first!? ARRGGH i swear if i get asked that one more time i'm gonna send them a close up picture of my rear end!!

[JimOfferman]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

Well i am trying to believe men care about other things

Because the ones i meet are all about sex.

Actually, you're wrong. Beer is more important. Who cares about hooters when one can sip on a cold Mexican instead?

Where are the guys who want to get to know a girls personality BEFORE deciding if he wants to date her?

I'd say that this forum is pretty crowded with that kind of men you seek. Could it, perhaps, be that you're just not looking in the right places?

Also, thinking about sex is only natural. We all do it - even you!

Who cares if the guy thinks about it before the date? Shouldn't his sexual attraction to you be a good sign? I personally don't go on (romantic) dates when there isn't such an attraction, 'cause I know we'll just end up being friends. I cannot manufacture attraction when it is not there, even though I would like to some times...

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by JimOfferman

I'd say that this forum is pretty crowded with that kind of men you seek. Could it, perhaps, be that you're just not looking in the right places?

Well how can i date any men in here,we're spread out across the whole world! And i dont like internet dating,its in it's own world of wierdness. I hate meeting people through the internet now.

Also, thinking about sex is only natural. We all do it - even you!

I am not saying i dont think about it,i think about it A LOT,daily...but there is a difference between someone who wants sex and someone who wants only sex.

Who cares if the guy thinks about it before the date? Shouldn't his sexual attraction to you be a good sign? I personally don't go on (romantic) dates when there isn't such an attraction, 'cause I know we'll just end up being friends. I cannot manufacture attraction when it is not there, even though I would like to some times...

I agree with you 100% about needing sexual attraction,but what makes A WORLD of difference is how he handles himself in the beginning. I can't want a guy if he isn't giving me any time to want him. If someone is throwing themselves at me before i even have time to blink my eyes,i am driven away! If you want something to come to you,dont chase after it,it'll only run away! I dont want a desperate guy,and i dont want a guy who cant even take the time to get to know me first. I dont want a guy who puts sex before personality. Also i cant truly like someone (honest feelings,love,etc) if i dont know him well enough first. I have to get to know his personality first and that takes months. Only then can i truly WANT to be with him (physically too).

[Trezker]

"do they ever care about anything about a woman besides having sex with her?"

Haven't you read about what Steve does with Erin? He can talk with her for hours.
I think for any relationship to be successful you have to be good friends who love to talk to each other about lots of stuff.

As for physical stuff, I like hugs and cuddling at least as much as sex. Just sleeping with someone in your arms is awesome.

Ah, internet relationships. I had one of those, an mmorpg girlfriend. Lasted many months, but it wasn't anything serious since the probability of ever meeting IRL was quite low, it was more of a roleplaying relationship.

[striving4peace]

RockChick26, any relationship or psychology expert will tell you this - and it's kinda obvious and probably redundant - but men are extremely visual creatures - women are not.
Women care a lot more about feelings, the mood, the connection... and i'm not saying men don't, but most of us tend to care a lot less about it. That's the way we're usually wired up. It's mars and venus. It's not a rule of thumb, it's not a blanket statement, but usually that's how it goes.

What you're feeling is not new or unusual - most women feel it too. But I feel a certain amount of education about men and women, and a paradigm shift must occur if you're going to increase your chances at finding the relationship you like.

I'm curious: From what you've said are you trying/hoping to fall in love with someone before having sex with him?

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Trezker

Haven't you read about what Steve does with Erin? He can talk with her for hours.

Well i know relationships like that exist which is why i have this undying hope that i will someday have one. I just lose a little more hope when i'm nearing my 40's and it still hasn't happened yet.

I think for any relationship to be successful you have to be good friends who love to talk to each other about lots of stuff.

Exactly,i totally agree! I don't want to date a guy who cannot be friends first. That's my biggest thing,actually. Unfortunately the problem is,if guys know you want to be friends first,then that becomes ALL you ever are,and they go after girls who will have sex with them sooner. Or i get the guys who don't EVER want sex with me It seems to be the two extremes,either they don't want sex with me or they want it right away,never in between!

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by striving4peace

RockChick26, any relationship or psychology expert will tell you this - and it's kinda obvious and probably redundant - but men are extremely visual creatures - women are not.
Women care a lot more about feelings, the mood, the connection... and i'm not saying men don't, but most of us tend to care a lot less about it. That's the way we're usually wired up. It's mars and venus. It's not a rule of thumb, it's not a blanket statement, but usually that's how it goes.

Yeah i understand this,but like you said,it's not that men don't have feelings,but visual stuff comes first. Well then how do relationships EVER start out where they are friends first? Is that only possible with men who aren't as visual?

What you're feeling is not new or unusual - most women feel it too. But I feel a certain amount of education about men and women, and a paradigm shift must occur if you're going to increase your chances at finding the relationship you like.

Well if you are insinuating that i lower my standards in any way or change what i am attracted to,that just cannot be done. What CAN be done is i can change my vibration to match that of who i want to attract. Basically become what i want to attract. That's partly why i want to get into music for a living because i feel that is where my soul is and my life will move forward and reward me with everything i dream of,once i get over that hill. I can also work on my social skills,thats my other hurdle to get over. But i still have to work on my deal with these "leagues" (if you are familiar with that thread,you know what i mean).

I'm curious: From what you've said are you trying/hoping to fall in love with someone before having sex with him?

Well it doesn't have to be full blown love,all i really need is to establish a good foundation of friendship. You know,actually know the guy for at least a few months before dating so that we can get to know each other as people and not as potential dates trying to impress each other. I rarely go for guys who try to impress me,i go for ones who i can hang out with casually. Where dating isnt even on our minds yet. In my opinion,it gets in the way of getting to know someone. To me there would be nothing on this Earth better than hanging out with a good guy friend,and we fool around playfully and innocently like we always do but this time it sparks something inside both of us,not because it happened but because who it is happening with,and we look at each other and we both realize it,and then we lean in for a kiss and its the best kiss ever because we are kissing with our body and our spirit. Everything is better with feelings. Not forced,just natural feelings gradually building until we both just have to admit it,we're falling for each other!

[Pequod]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

Yeah i understand this,but like you said,it's not that men don't have feelings,but visual stuff comes first.

Yes, that's true so what is the problem?

Men get their validation mainly from sex
Women get their validation mainly from love and connection.

So if a man sees a woman, he sees her first as a sexual being, and secondly as a social being.
If a woman sees a man, she will first see him as a social being and only later as a sexual being.

That's why they say:"A man loves the woman he sleeps with, and a woman sleeps with the man she loves"

It's just different biological wiring. In the end, for a good relationship man and woman need to click both in sexuality and in love and connection. There is just a difference in being, but no need see it as problematic.

[striving4peace]

Originally Posted by Pequod

Men get their validation mainly from sex

No wonder I've been having problems accepting myself

[JSB]

Originally Posted by Rockchick26

...It seems to be the two extremes,either they don't want sex with me or they want it right away,never in between!

This is the tricky bit. It's easiest to become friends with guys who like you, but aren't attracted to you, because if the attraction is there, they want to be more than friends.

So guys who are attracted to you want sex, dating, whatever. They don't want to wait "months", because it's too much hassle, or they think you're playing games, or it's just easier to go for someone else they are also attracted to you. They probably don't know you well enough to want to wait for you.

Guys who know you well and value you as a friend are likely not attracted to you in the first place. If they were, why would they torture themselves by being "just friends"? The guy friends who have crushes on you probably come across as needy or desperate, so you don't want them.

You need a friend who slowly falls for you over time, as you do for him. Or, you need a boyfriend who is patient and understanding. (Obviously, you know all this already.)

Are you physically affectionate with the men you date? Even if you don't want sex right away, are you cold and blocked off, or open and warm? There are plenty of men out there who will wait for sex, but very few (non psycho-stalkers) who will persevere in the face of (apparent) cold disinterest.

Is there something you are doing to drive men away, perhaps unconsciously? An unrealistic expectation or demand you are putting out there, or a "difficult" behavior? I'm not accusing, just asking. Most men will prefer not to wait a long time for sex, but there are plenty who are willing to do so, even if it feels like a bit of a sacrifice.

I wonder if you are attracting/pursuing the wrong kind of man, or if you are unintentionally driving away those who are a good fit for you.

You can certainly find a good man; you're obviously thoughtful and bright, and you've written that people find you physically attractive. You may just be stuck in a negative loop that needs to be broken. Have you asked friends or family you trust how they perceive your behavior re: dating? Right now, your view is from the inside out, and it might be helpful to get some third party feedback to understand how others see the situation.

[Parthon]

I have to agree with what JSB and everyone else is saying.

This is some straight-up, whacked-out crazy talk! :P

You want a guy who you've just met to like you for you, but get to know you before he finds you sexually attractive, but at the same rate you do. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. Most guys will decided if a girl is attractive or not within 10 seconds of seeing her, and it will stay that way. If you want a guy to slowly become attracted to you, it's not going to happen. I agree that you will want to avoid the overly eager ones, but even then, the guy you will want as a boyfriend will be physically attracted to you to begin with. Otherwise, you have the choice of a male who is: repressed, a great liar, and/or just not attracted to you. If you meet a guy who is attracted to you, wants to get to know you better and is open and honest, then yeah, he will admit that he wants to have sex with you. It won't be all he cares about, but he will mention it. How guys show they are willing to get to know a woman before sleeping with them is by not pressuring them for sex, strange as it sounds. But, also remember that guys having a much higher sex drive might not consider constantly asking as pressure, but you might.

In the end, it's not about changing who you are, or about giving up your values. They are important to you and to dismiss them would be detrimental. The idea is to learn the rules of the game and how to play. Just like music, where you have to learn notes, scales, keys and chords to be able to play, there are similar rules in life, unwritten but ubiquitous rules that govern how people interact. If you don't want to learn and follow those rules, then in the arena of romance you'll sound just like that 5 year old kid randomly plucking guitar strings and making an awful racket. People who are in happy relationships were either really lucky, or, more likely, learnt the rules. Luck cannot be relied apon, but there's always learning and work to get there.

There are many, many friendships that become relationships, but in every case, the guy and girl would have found each other attractive even before they were friends. Most of the time the friendship would have just happened by chance, and then evolved into love. It's great when that happens, but it's also very rare.

For me, I find myself in the same position though. I want to meet a girl whom I can cherish and honour, someone to share hopes and dreams with. Not just another person, but a companion to be with, together. In the end, it's what every intelligent person really wants.

Also, don't "reply" to this post. You can say you read it, but don't answer to it. I've noticed that when I read what people have said and "respond", I've only just "dealt with" the subject, I haven't really absorbed it. When I can't or don't respond, then the messages I read linger longer. Instead of spending the minute writing a response, just reread it and think about the message. See what else you can gain from it.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Pequod

Yes, that's true so what is the problem?

Men get their validation mainly from sex
Women get their validation mainly from love and connection.

So if a man sees a woman, he sees her first as a sexual being, and secondly as a social being.
If a woman sees a man, she will first see him as a social being and only later as a sexual being.

That's why they say:"A man loves the woman he sleeps with, and a woman sleeps with the man she loves"

It's just different biological wiring. In the end, for a good relationship man and woman need to click both in sexuality and in love and connection. There is just a difference in being, but no need see it as problematic.

Where did you hear this!? This couldn't be farther from the truth,in my experience. When men have sex with a woman before anything else has developed,what do they do? They NEVER CALL BACK! That's why they always say women should never sleep with a man so quickly because she is allowing herself to be used for sex. If a man knows a woman will put out quickly,then she becomes either a **** buddy or a one night stand. I've never heard of a man falling in love with a woman after having sex with her on the first date. In fact i've never even heard of a man dating a woman with a relationship in mind,after having sex immediately. When you show someone what you want,that's how they're going to treat you. So i am not going to show men that i'm an easy screw buddy,cuz that's all i'd be to them.

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by JSB

So guys who are attracted to you want sex, dating, whatever. They don't want to wait "months", because it's too much hassle, or they think you're playing games, or it's just easier to go for someone else they are also attracted to you. They probably don't know you well enough to want to wait for you.

I wish men were more like women this way. See when i meet a guy i am attracted to,i would wait YEARS! And i have,i waited 15 years for my best male friend to like me back,he even said we'd end up together "someday"...LIAR!

Guys who know you well and value you as a friend are likely not attracted to you in the first place. If they were, why would they torture themselves by being "just friends"?

Well i guess i am more tolerant to this "torture" then,since i am willing to wait years LOL

The guy friends who have crushes on you probably come across as needy or desperate, so you don't want them.

My guy friends NEVER have had a crush on me. They've all either turned out to be gay or already had girlfriends. I've never once had a male friend who was straight and single.

You need a friend who slowly falls for you over time, as you do for him. Or, you need a boyfriend who is patient and understanding. (Obviously, you know all this already.)

Yeah. Preferrably i'd like the first option LOL I had a boyfriend who was patient and understanding and he waited over a year until i was ready to have sex (although we did fool around in other ways,a few months after we met). But the whole time i felt like i was just there to please him. Nothing was pleasing me. I realize now i didnt really love him (or even like him all that much) so maybe thats why i was never truly ready to fool around. I just feel like i don't want something right away,i have to build up my feelings which help me want it,and if i feel forced to do that too quickly,it ruins the whole thing for me. Maybe it's the thrill of the chase that i need,although i would want it to be more like he isnt running from me but we just take a bit longer to hook up.

Are you physically affectionate with the men you date? Even if you don't want sex right away, are you cold and blocked off, or open and warm? There are plenty of men out there who will wait for sex, but very few (non psycho-stalkers) who will persevere in the face of (apparent) cold disinterest.

No i am not cold and blocked off,i hug,hold hands,cuddle,i just dont want to kiss or get sexual until i'm ready because i know once you kiss,then its like a snowball effect and it just picks up speed and goes faster from there! So in order to be ready when that happens,i need time to make myself want it,so i don't like to kiss guys until i'm ready. But the problem is,most of them kiss me anyway,knowing this,and then it totally ruins it for me and i start to feel like they were just after one thing the whole time. So when i tell a guy i like to make the first move and i dont want to kiss until i'm ready and then he goes and does it anyway,BIG NO NO! To me those are the types of guys who would force me into sex if i didnt want to do it.

I wonder if you are attracting/pursuing the wrong kind of man, or if you are unintentionally driving away those who are a good fit for you.

Well most men are the wrong kind of man for me I mean,i need a guy who can be friends first and who lets me make the first move (after a few months),and from the sounds of it there aren't too many like that. Also keep in mind how picky i am,and the odds go down real fast. It's no wonder i'm single.

Have you asked friends or family you trust how they perceive your behavior re: dating? Right now, your view is from the inside out, and it might be helpful to get some third party feedback to understand how others see the situation.

Other people tell me i'm just too picky I already knew that though. But i dont see how that is anything i can help. I am not going to suddenly find someone attractive who is the complete opposite of what i like (which would be 90% of guys then). I also am not going to change my morals (the whole waiting thing,needing to be ready,etc.)

[Rockchick26]

Originally Posted by Parthon

Just like music, where you have to learn notes, scales, keys and chords to be able to play, there are similar rules in life, unwritten but ubiquitous rules that govern how people interact. If you don't want to learn and follow those rules, then in the arena of romance you'll sound just like that 5 year old kid randomly plucking guitar strings and making an awful racket.

I feel the opposite as you do,if i reply to a message,that means it sparked something in me and i want to delve farther into the discussion. By not replying,you wouldn't even know if i had even read your post! So,here's what i have to say about this part about the music...i 100% disagree,because you don't have to learn music in order to play it. I can play any song by ear within minutes,on the piano and i cant remember which keys are which. Most musicians are self taught. You dont have to know the rules to play the game,you can make up your own rules (when it comes to music,anyway...it's rather encouraged).

There are many, many friendships that become relationships, but in every case, the guy and girl would have found each other attractive even before they were friends.

Well once again,it didnt happen that way for me. I seem to be an exception to all the rules you are throwing at me LOL And if i can be an exception,others can be too. When i fell in love with my best friend,i was not attracted to him when i first met him...it took a few years and then after we started hanging out on a regular basis,it took about 2 months. If that can happen that way for me,it can happen that way for someone else. And what about when people undergo a physical change? (new hairstyle,lose weight,wear makeup,dress different,etc) That could also make someone see somebody in a new light. I am not asking for them NOT to find me attractive right away,though,i am just asking that they respect me and not want to use me for sex.

For me, I find myself in the same position though. I want to meet a girl whom I can cherish and honour, someone to share hopes and dreams with. Not just another person, but a companion to be with, together. In the end, it's what every intelligent person really wants.

Exactly! That's why i feel more intelligent than most of the guys i meet.

[evevera]

Originally Posted by PokerEnthusiast

David21, I feel exactly the same way. Everything you described about yourself and your feelings is the same for me (even down to the age ).

Everyday that I go to school I see couples that are happy together and showing their affection for each other. When I see attractive girls with their boyfriends I sometimes ask myself - "Why can't I be that guy?" or "Will I ever be with a girl like that?" or "I hope I can have those experiences while I'm still in college"

Most of the time I just blame it on "bad luck".
-Bad luck because whenever I've met a girl in one of my classes that I was attracted to I find out that she has a boyfriend. We end up just being friends and then after the semester is over I barely see her anymore.
-Bad luck because I'm never at places where I can meet new girls. None of my friends are people that go out to nightclubs so I don't have a chance to ever go to a club to meet girls. Nobody I know ever has parties where a lot of new people get together so I'm not able to meet girls at a party like that.

I know it's stupid to think this way because I know that all of this can be changed through my actions and the way I choose to live my life. It's just like in poker: It's not the about the cards that you are dealt but the way that you play them. There's nothing wrong with the cards I was dealt(my life), I just don't know how to play them the right way(I'm not doing what I should be doing to improve my social life).

And you can give me advice like:
-"Try to make new friends that are interested in the same things you are"
-"Put yourself out there more and even though you don't have friends to go with you to a club or a party; you can still go by yourself and meet people" or
-"Don't be afraid to get rejected by people. It's part of the learning process and over time you will learn that rejection is not that bad"
-"Join toastmasters"
-etc
but the problem is I already know that this is what I have to do improve my social life - I'm just too stubborn to do it and too scared to even try. I would rather believe in this illusion of bad luck that have and keep telling myself that my luck is going to change. Haha... I say things to myself like "Yeah don't worry, next semester you're gonna meet new people that are gonna be the type of friends you want and you're gonna meet a really nice girl-the one you've been waiting so long for". But this is just me waiting for things to happen for me. The truth is - it wont happen for me unless I do something about it.

Try Internet Dating That's what its good for... You can seek out the ones that share the same values /beliefs as you too. Much easier.

University isn't really a great place to meet boyfriends/girlfriends. Because if you break up, you're going to have to stand seeing them around the place all the time.

Also, just about every quality girl is going to be taken (almost), and 90% of people in relationships are NOT happy. You just need to approach the ones you want to date from a NON-friend angle. Don't be the I-only-see-him-as-a-friend guy. YOu can get out of that by flirting, building sexual tension in conversations and all that other jazz.

Most guys don't do this. If they get creeped out and tell you to stop cos they have a boyfriend, that's fine, you won't get them anyway no matter how much you flirt with them. But that doesn't mean you have to stop, just look at it as a part of your personality. They will enjoy the attention.