My social life is a mess

[LordSappington]

So, I somehow stumbled upon this website, and I've been impressed about the level of insight that many of you have regarding personal development. I've always been a big proponent of having personal projects, whether it is to learn an instrument, get into shape, or whatever. One thing that has alluded me for the past 25 years is the social aspect. I apologize for the length of this, but I have a lot on my mind.

Lately, I've been feeling intensely lonely. I'm a graduate student currently working towards my thesis. Most of my coworkers are older than me in one way or another. Although I do enjoy working with them, I can't really relate with any of them since most of them are married and have children, even the ones my age. The lunch room talk pretty much involves people talking about their kids, and actually many of them do so in their native tongue, Chinese. That's grad school for you, I guess.

But what about the other graduate students in my program? When I first came to grad school, I was determined to make new friends. I bought How to Win Friends and Influence People and studied it intensely. During orientation, I kept a list of all my classmates who I had met and a little tidbit about their lives that I could remember, and I sought out anyone I had not met yet. Within a week, I had learned a tremendous amount of about 120 of them. But once orientation ended, I found that people were starting to form social circles, and I was generally excluded from them. So I decided to befriend those students who I worked closely with (we were paired up for some classes). I picked those I had a fair amount of contact with, and I would invite them to do things. They always would decline with a seemingly legitimate excuse, which in retrospect, I think was their way to saying, "I don't want to be friends with you." By the end of first year, I had a few friends, but when it came time to organize into mandatory study groups, I didn't have anywhere to go. I had a few friends, but no one particularly close. I ended up just filling in an empty spot.

So fast forward a few years later, and I'm still in the same rut, but worse. I had managed to branch out a bit, but I discovered that many of my friends are getting married or in serious relationships. While they used to hang out with me, maybe once a month, they now don't ever do anything with me and often don't even answer the phone when I call, or decline whatever I want to do because they're either hanging out with other people or their significant others. I spend most of my Friday and Saturday nights alone or calling around to find someone to talk to.

So I decided to take charge and meet new people, and it's been a failure. I tried a frisbee league, but I soon realized that those people were far too invested in the sport (playing 4-5 times a week) for me to relate, and I also injured myself, making me unable to play for at least a year. I mustered up the courage to go to some local young professionals groups alone, but I had almost universally unpleasant experiences with them (at my first meeting of one group, everyone else referred to me as a child and backhandedly insinuated I was too stupid to get into graduate school; at another, someone I was talking to suddenly said, "I'm bored" and walked away in the middle of the conversation; in another group, people would literally walk away from me the minute I said "hello").

I'm quickly running out of energy to keep this up, and certainly running out of organizations to give a shot. I thought at first that the main problem was me, but I've heard from several people that the residents of this city are snotty and off-putting; in fact, I recently found out that my parents left this place for precisely this reason. Lately now, I find myself overwhelmed with so much anxiety in approaching people that I don't even bother when I go out.

My dating life is terrible. I haven't had a girlfriend for years, and my attempts to date have been abysmal failures. I simply don't meet single people in my life, and my friends say they don't know any single people. When I do meet them, I'm not attracted to them or they're not attracted to me. I tried the online thing, but those girls were incredibly flaky and wouldn't even show up for dates. I did have one reasonably positive online dating experience, but after a few very fun dates, she suddenly decided she didn't like me and pretty much told me to go away.

So I tried the online thing to meet friends. That's been a pretty bad failure. I did make one good friend, and she invited me to hang out with her friends, and things seemed to be going well. They even invited me to hang out with them at New Years! I was so excited, but after I went to the party, they never invited me to any parties again. I asked them why, and they said I didn't look like I was having fun (I felt a bit out of place, and it's hard to open up around a tight-knit group of new people). So, now I'm not part of their group anymore.

Meanwhile, my best friend of 10 years, whom I used to talk to every week, suddenly stopped returning my phone calls and e-mails. We didn't get into a fight or anything. I wasn't dumping my problems on her like a therapist. I guess, she just didn't want me in her life anymore.

So needless to say, I got somewhat depressed. I went to the doctor, and she gave me some Lexapro. I referred myself to a therapist, and I felt somewhat optimistic that she could me, but after a few sessions she had to refer me to someone else because she was moving away. I met with the new guy, but I became really turned off because I felt he was trivializing my problems. At the last session, he said, "Well, if you ever need someone to ♥♥♥♥♥ to, give me a call." I don't think he understood that I didn't want someone to just listen; I really need some insight, some plan to make things better.

Meanwhile, the Lexapro was making me a mess. I went from feeling mildly crappy all the time to feeling terrible. I ended up sleeping 12-14 hours a day. It ended up screwing up my vision, so I was having trouble reading, and I kept on falling asleep at work. Eventually, I stopped it and I returned to my mildly depressed, but at least functional, self.

So I started going to a new therapist, and things were OK with her. But the thing that got me was when I asked, "Well, what can I do to make new friends?" and she said to keep on doing what I'm doing. I wasn't looking for reassurances that I was doing the right thing. I know that going out and trying is better than sitting at home and feeling sorry for myself, but it simply wasn't working. I would go out and wander around aimlessly, talking to a few people, getting snubbed two or three times, and end up wandering home and feeling worse. I guess she didn't understand that.

So, right now, I have very few local friends, and many of them are moving away in a few months. Medications haven't really done much for me. Therapy hasn't help very much. Forced socialization, it seems, just makes me more anxious as I fail miserably. One of my old college friends says that I need to have positive social interactions at some people to reinforce that they can be positive, but I have yet to have that happen.

Things have gotten so bad, that I've found myself involuntarily withdrawing from people, feeling completely unable to carry on a basic small talk conversation or just being a complete jerk for no reason other than I feel bad. I'm growing tired of people telling me to be myself (clearly that is not working). I'm sick of being alone and tired of having poor and mediocre social interactions.

So, wise Internet people, what the hell do I do? Is there some sort of plan I could implement to fix this? I apologize for the lengthy post, but I hope it paints a clearer picture of where I am and where I want to go.

[Yellow]

I sympathize with you LordSappington. I am sorry you have to deal with this

Can you try visiting your home town or where you did your undergrad for a while? Any place where there are people you know? I think you need a change of place. I can understand that you can't leave your masters in the middle, but maybe take a week or 2 off and visit family and/or friends from before?

Also, I think you should be very proud of yourself for being persistent about this. I was impressed after reading your post about how persistent you are.

Also, how much longer will it be before you can move out of that town permanently?

I am sure you will find some good advice from people here.

[LordSappington]

Originally Posted by Yellow

Can you try visiting your home town or where you did your undergrad for a while? Any place where there are people you know? I think you need a change of place. I can understand that you can't leave your masters in the middle, but maybe take a week or 2 off and visit family and/or friends from before?

I'm heading back home for Thanksgiving in a few weeks. I've always found home to be very stressful, since I really don't have very many friends there anymore, as most people have moved away (my former best friend was one of the last holdouts; she's still there, but I don't feel comfortable contacting her anymore). I feel like my parents treat me like I'm a child when I stay with them (I'm the baby, and I think it will be like this for most of my life). I've been where I'm at now for so long (7+ years), visiting my parents doesn't seem like home anymore. Nevertheless, it will be nice to eat some good food and not have to worry about work, bills, etc for just a few days.

I actually stayed in the same place for graduate school as my undergrad, and all of my friends from there have left. Believe me, if I had the money to take a little vacation, I would. I recently attending one of my old college roommate's weddings and reunited with my college friends (we've actually stayed in touch pretty well even after 3 years). It was wonderful, but it sort of made me sad because I don't have the luxury of those types of people anymore.

Also, how much longer will it be before you can move out of that town permanently?

I wish I knew. I guess I should've been more explicit that I'm in a PhD program, quite a long one. It averages around 8 years, although for some people it takes longer and some people it takes shorter. I've been pressuring my mentor to speed things along, but I'd say realistically, I have at least 4-5 more years before I move away.

[pterodactyl]

Hi, Lord Sappington (lol at the name),

So I've been through much of what you described: the grad school gauntlet, in a tough program where my lab was Chinese and I spoke about two words of the language, trying to make friends in an unfriendly city, the whole friends leaving and getting married and no longer taking your calls thing, etc.

My first thought after reading your post is that you are likely literally sapping energy from people. If you notice, you ARE able to make friends-- it's that you cannot keep them. You are driving people away after a while for some reason and, if you aren't offensive in your personal hygiene and appearance or if you are otherwise not overtly annoying, I think it may be that you are seeking to obtain something from them, to fill a gap in yourself, rather than looking to give. When you are desperately needy for something, that thing eludes you. However, when you are able to find peace alone, when you are happy just living your life whether others are around you or not, and when you are relaxed in yourself, you attract people. When I meet people who are essentially friendless, it really shows, as they suck and sap the life out of me. You need to find a way to generate energy, positivity and spirit in yourself, and then broadcast that out into the world. I don't know specifically how you can do that-- it is up to you to find your passion and then share that passion with others.

Stop trying so hard, as that has not gotten you where you want to go, and doing what you have been doing while expecting results is insanity. Start focusing on what you can give, just by being yourself. What gifts do you have? What kind of help or advice can you give others? How can you help? Foster an unobtrusive and helpful attitude. Don't try to make friends but be around and observant and when others need help be the first to step in.
Volunteer to help people who truly need it. Be as giving and loving as you can be. Even though it is lonely, give love to yourself as well. I recommend reading "The Four Agreements" and "The Mastery of Love" by Don Miguel Ruiz. The latter was especially helpful to me when I was going through a time where I felt friendless.

You are not friendless; you just haven't found your tribe yet. Work on loving yourself and the people around you without expectation.

[justforaday]

Changes come when you really, really get fed up of being depressed..

For example: I was depressed for 4 years or sth and one day my body and mind said me you can´t live like this for the rest of your life, you have to move yourself, make changes..

1) I think you should think less, because i have been in that situation before..think less and just let yourself feel what you feel..
If you feel that you get along with someone and you see that others answer to your converstation then they really are interested in you...

2) Look around and watch what kind of people are around you, are they the same like you wanna be. I think that youre living in a wrong place, you have to move and move untill you find your place, im in that same position, people around me are bad and all they think about is drinking... think where you wanna be, learn about other places maybe youll fit somewhere else, but most of all at first give up searching, people come to you, but in an unexpected time... i found myself a friend...

3) its all about who YOU like, what kind of people you like, and when they dont like you you dont like them somehow...i figured it out myself...

4)you have to be somehow interesting for yourself, do many things be versatile or sth...

[LordSappington]

Originally Posted by pterodactyl

Stop trying so hard, as that has not gotten you where you want to go, and doing what you have been doing while expecting results is insanity. Start focusing on what you can give, just by being yourself. What gifts do you have? What kind of help or advice can you give others? How can you help? Foster an unobtrusive and helpful attitude. Don't try to make friends but be around and observant and when others need help be the first to step in.
Volunteer to help people who truly need it. Be as giving and loving as you can be. Even though it is lonely, give love to yourself as well. I recommend reading "The Four Agreements" and "The Mastery of Love" by Don Miguel Ruiz. The latter was especially helpful to me when I was going through a time where I felt friendless.

Alright, here's a situation I've found myself in numerous times. I have nothing to do tonight. I know there's a party going on with a blanket invitation for anyone in the grad school to show up. I know that none of my classmates or friends will show up because they all have better things to do. A year ago, I would just stay home, but I'm tired of staying home. So I go.

I show up to the party early, because there are very few people there and they're easier to talk to. We have our bland introductions, and then people wander off to mingle. Fast forward to an hour later. There is loud music. Some people are dancing. Some people are playing beer pong. Although I've met some people, I don't really know anyone particularly well. I wander around and try to talk to people, but they seem bored. Eventually, I run out of things to say and go home early. I see someone a week later and say hi and they don't even remember meeting me, even though I know a lot about them.

In this situation, what the hell can I offer people? I try to carry on an interesting conversation, but it seems that people are often not interested in me. I try to steer conversations away from me and back to them, but eventually they get bored and wander off to get more beer.

I have found that this is the situation where I meet most people my age. It's a terrible place to make friends, but that's where the people are. Yeah, volunteer organizations are great, but you'd be surprised at how many of those organization events resemble exactly what I described above.

[pterodactyl]

Again, you are looking to gain or obtain something and they can see or sense that. It does not matter what environment you're in if you are there looking to get and you have nothing in return to give. I was recently at a party where I knew very few people there. I wound up starting a conversation with the person who looked most interesting to me, and instead of mundane small talk I started talking about something meaningful right away. This piqued her interest immediately, and we wound up in a deep discussion that others overheard, became interested in, and soon we had the entire room involved. In that instance I was not looking for attention or to simply socialize or make a friend. I was not looking to be the center of attention. I did not care how she perceived me. I would have had a great time wandering around snacking, drinking wine and looking at the host's artwork. I just felt like I had some ideas to share and wanted to do that.

When you are in a new environment, around new people, do you feel 'full' of energy that is bursting out of you, wanting to share thoughts and ideas? The common denominator in your stories is that people become bored of you within a short time of meeting you and wander away. Now either everyone in your environment is boring or you are boring them. If you are a low-energy person (likely given your environment) you may be unintentionally draining others rather than giving them your energy.

For the sake of curiosity, what's a typical conversation with a new person like, sentence for sentence? Maybe there is something in your conversation that is lacking that I might be able to pinpoint.

[LordSappington]

A typical conversation.... that's a hard one. I'll try to recreate the most recent conversation I had at a party. So I had just finished a conversation with someone and was standing around trying to figure out what to do next when one of the hostesses grabbed my hand, grabbed a nearby girl's hand, and taped us together. She then informed us that, to encourage people to mix, she was doing this to random people (I think we were the only ones this happened to). To put this into context, this was a party mixer between two different programs at the graduate school.

Me: Uhhh... hello, person I'm now taped to. I'm XYZ.
Her: Hi. I'm QRS.
Me: So, what program are you in?
Her: I'm a first year in the program of medicine. What about you?
Me: I'm a fourth year in (my program).
Her: Oh, so you work in a lab. What are you studying?
Me: I work in (so and so's lab) studying (stuff I study). My project focuses on (specific topic I study). So, how are you liking first year?
Her: It's hard but fun.
(awkward silence)
Me: Not that I'm not enjoying talking to you, but how long are we supposed to stay taped together? This is a bit uncomfortable.
Her: Yeah, let's take it off. (peels off tape)
Me: You're lucky that you don't have much hair on your arms.
Her: Did that hurt?
Me: A bit, but I'll get over it.
Her: Anyhow, I'm going to get some more beer. See you around.

That's a pretty typical conversation in a mixer environment, except in my experience, graduate students are actually a bit in specific details of my work than the average person I meet; if I detect that other person is interested in that, I go into a lot more detail. For most people, I try to keep it short because, seriously, no one wants me to go into a long treatise about what I study. Lately, when people ask me questions about myself, I give a brief answer and freeze up and let the conversation die. I don't know why; my mind just goes completely and utterly blank.

I find that my social anxiety makes it nearly impossible for me to approach people in a non-mixer environment such as outdoor festivals where everyone is hanging out with their group of friends. I really have no idea how to force myself to do that, so when I do, the conversations are usually much briefer and much more awkward.

So, instead of that admittedly boring conversation, should I keep a list of interesting topics on hand and abruptly change the subject? "So, I read somewhere that the banana will be extinct in 5-10 years / they cured AIDS in someone with a bone marrow transplant / the New Kids on the Block are touring again." Is there some open ended question I could ask to get them to talk about whatever their passion is? And once we get talking, how do I transition from a one-off conversation to a friendship?

[eskimo]

LordSappington, I think pterodactyl's spitting out some wisdom here. People generally don't want to be around those who drain them. Is there a void in your heart that you need to fill?

If you're doing something or around people you have a genuine passion for or interest in, then you will naturally generate and bellow positive energy that will attract others who are tuned into the same frequencies.

In my case, I love basketball and music. When I'm playing a pick-up game with my buddies or worshiping to Hillsong in my church, I light up those around me and the room. During these times, my energy is so powerful it literally connects and binds everyone together and lifts their spirits and confidence.

When I'm doing something I don't really care for, like conversing with someone I'm not interested in (because they're speaking defensively, uttering superficial nonsense, trying to control/dominate me - basically not really making an attempt to open up and connect with me), then I shut down and, instead of giving positive energy, I may instead drain theirs if I remain speaking to them.

You just have to find those activities / people that you have a genuine interest in. And they may not be what you're used to or comfortable with.

And with your conversation with girls, there may be a spiritual component to the dialog you haven't figured out yet.

[eskimo]

Originally Posted by pterodactyl

Hi, Lord Sappington (lol at the name),

So I've been through much of what you described: the grad school gauntlet, in a tough program where my lab was Chinese and I spoke about two words of the language, trying to make friends in an unfriendly city, the whole friends leaving and getting married and no longer taking your calls thing, etc.

My first thought after reading your post is that you are likely literally sapping energy from people. If you notice, you ARE able to make friends-- it's that you cannot keep them. You are driving people away after a while for some reason and, if you aren't offensive in your personal hygiene and appearance or if you are otherwise not overtly annoying, I think it may be that you are seeking to obtain something from them, to fill a gap in yourself, rather than looking to give. When you are desperately needy for something, that thing eludes you. However, when you are able to find peace alone, when you are happy just living your life whether others are around you or not, and when you are relaxed in yourself, you attract people. When I meet people who are essentially friendless, it really shows, as they suck and sap the life out of me. You need to find a way to generate energy, positivity and spirit in yourself, and then broadcast that out into the world. I don't know specifically how you can do that-- it is up to you to find your passion and then share that passion with others.

Stop trying so hard, as that has not gotten you where you want to go, and doing what you have been doing while expecting results is insanity. Start focusing on what you can give, just by being yourself. What gifts do you have? What kind of help or advice can you give others? How can you help? Foster an unobtrusive and helpful attitude. Don't try to make friends but be around and observant and when others need help be the first to step in.
Volunteer to help people who truly need it. Be as giving and loving as you can be. Even though it is lonely, give love to yourself as well. I recommend reading "The Four Agreements" and "The Mastery of Love" by Don Miguel Ruiz. The latter was especially helpful to me when I was going through a time where I felt friendless.

You are not friendless; you just haven't found your tribe yet. Work on loving yourself and the people around you without expectation.

pterodactyl, just out of curiosity, did you feel a drain in your energy when you read LordSappington's post?

[LordSappington]

Originally Posted by eskimo

LordSappington, I think pterodactyl's spitting out some wisdom here. People generally don't want to be around those who drain them. Is there a void in your heart that you need to fill?

When I posted this, I was very, very lonely. I knew that many of my friends were spending their times having fun, enjoying the night with loved ones, partying or chilling with their group, and I was sitting at home alone with no one to talk to. It was dark, it was cold, and I felt an overwhelming sense of despair. I had a rough week, and all I wanted to do was enjoy my weekend.

But when I'm not feeling terribly down and depressed, I don't feel a tremendous void in my life. I don't feel like I *need* a girlfriend or anything like that; I used to feel like that, but not anymore. But I really miss my old college friends or people like them. I want to feel like I'm a part of a community again, and I want to be with people where I don't need to necessarily be on my best behavior to be accepted. I don't want to have to worry about what I'm doing on Friday night or if I have plans for New Years. I want to have people who I can reliably ask to go to a concert with or go hiking or just sit and watch a movie. I want to have meaningful conversation with people, and 10 minutes later, discuss how much life would such when the Cavendish banana goes extinct.

Right now, my life feels, well empty. Primarily because I have no one to share it with, and it would nice if they could reciprocate. Two weeks ago, I arranged my first entire musical piece for the guitar. No one to play it to other than my teacher. Yesterday, for the first time in a long time, I did something that made someone's day, and perhaps changed their life. But there was no one around who even cared to hear about it...

I don't think any of those things are particularly desperate or clingy. I think they're the natural desires of all people to really have a clan that they're a part of. But of all the people I know, I haven't been able to find those connections in this city.

I went on a vacation with some random people my age a few months ago, and I did meet two people who I connect with pretty well. One even phoned me twice last week, even though she lives on the other side of the world. But there's no one like that here.

It would be so easy to blame my location or others for my frustrations. I think the people here are cliquish and unfriendly, and I've heard several people say they get that vibe as well. I suspect my life would be much better somewhere else, but right now, that's not an option. But at the same time, I think that a tremendous amount of it is me. Everyone else appears to be doing pretty well for themselves. Relationships involve two people, and it seems that the only consistent feature of all my failed ones is me.

[eskimo]

^ Well, have you thought about joining a church?

Churches are made up of people who, like everyone else, have their issues and vices, but if the church has good leadership, then the people will at the least try to live the righteous life based on love and service to others.

Many contemporary churches have groups for young adults (young professionals, college ministry) that are based on a solid spiritual and relational foundation and the people in these groups may generally be less pretentious and more welcoming.

If you feel a constant emptiness inside, being connected to a good church will help you feel fulfilled.

Good luck my friend - and the next time I read one of your posts, I want to see that your name has been changed to LordGivington!

[LordSappington]

Unfortunately, I'm an atheist. There aren't churches for us. However, after much resistance on my part and harassment by an old college friend, I have been trying to connect with other people who share my religious background even though I don't believe it. It hasn't worked too well, but not for the reasons I expected.

It wasn't that I wasn't a believer; it turns out that many of the people don't care about that. Most of them grew up in this city, went to school together, and I simply am not welcome into their cliques that have been established since high school; I've heard a couple of other people--including a town native--complain about this particular group as well. The ones who moved here, usually did it for school and are almost universally law students, and I simply have very, very little in common with them. Also, there is a really big hook-up culture and the social events tend to focus on that, making the entire thing unpleasant and drama-filled and feeling like high school all over again. No, thanks.

I'm still trying though. I've found a few somewhat smaller groups that are better than the others, mostly of people who moved here. Some of the people seem nice, but our brief interactions really haven't developed into anything meaningful. Hopefully I can change that soon, but it's hard when I only see the people every few months.

By the way, my name has nothing to do with how I feel. I took my name after a street nearby. I always thought the Sappington sounded like some guy descended from British aristocracy with some stuffy name like Lord Malcolm Sappington III. I just think the name sounds silly.

[Dan.Linehan]

Originally Posted by LordSappington

Unfortunately, I'm an atheist. There aren't churches for us. However, after much resistance on my part and harassment by an old college friend, I have been trying to connect with other people who share my religious background even though I don't believe it. It hasn't worked too well, but not for the reasons I expected.

Sure there are -- Universal Unitarian and Quaker are two off the top of my head. I'm atheist too, and I don't personally go to church, but I can see that being good advice.

Looking back through your life, when did you feel like you fit in the most? Who are the top three people that you have amazing conversations with, and where are they now?

[Dan.Linehan]

You also might want to check out toastmasters. It seems this sort of thing is almost what it was made for..

[crescive]

Originally Posted by LordSappington

A typical conversation.... that's a hard one. I'll try to recreate the most recent conversation I had at a party. So I had just finished a conversation with someone and was standing around trying to figure out what to do next when one of the hostesses grabbed my hand, grabbed a nearby girl's hand, and taped us together. She then informed us that, to encourage people to mix, she was doing this to random people (I think we were the only ones this happened to). To put this into context, this was a party mixer between two different programs at the graduate school.

Me: Uhhh... hello, person I'm now taped to. I'm XYZ.
Her: Hi. I'm QRS.
Me: So, what program are you in?
Her: I'm a first year in the program of medicine. What about you?
Me: I'm a fourth year in (my program).
Her: Oh, so you work in a lab. What are you studying?
Me: I work in (so and so's lab) studying (stuff I study). My project focuses on (specific topic I study). So, how are you liking first year?
Her: It's hard but fun.
(awkward silence)
Me: Not that I'm not enjoying talking to you, but how long are we supposed to stay taped together? This is a bit uncomfortable.
Her: Yeah, let's take it off. (peels off tape)
Me: You're lucky that you don't have much hair on your arms.
Her: Did that hurt?
Me: A bit, but I'll get over it.
Her: Anyhow, I'm going to get some more beer. See you around.

That's a pretty typical conversation in a mixer environment, except in my experience, graduate students are actually a bit in specific details of my work than the average person I meet; if I detect that other person is interested in that, I go into a lot more detail. For most people, I try to keep it short because, seriously, no one wants me to go into a long treatise about what I study. Lately, when people ask me questions about myself, I give a brief answer and freeze up and let the conversation die. I don't know why; my mind just goes completely and utterly blank.

I find that my social anxiety makes it nearly impossible for me to approach people in a non-mixer environment such as outdoor festivals where everyone is hanging out with their group of friends. I really have no idea how to force myself to do that, so when I do, the conversations are usually much briefer and much more awkward.

So, instead of that admittedly boring conversation, should I keep a list of interesting topics on hand and abruptly change the subject? "So, I read somewhere that the banana will be extinct in 5-10 years / they cured AIDS in someone with a bone marrow transplant / the New Kids on the Block are touring again." Is there some open ended question I could ask to get them to talk about whatever their passion is? And once we get talking, how do I transition from a one-off conversation to a friendship?

From your sample convo, I sense that your awkwardness and feelings of discomfort lead YOU to push people away. Yes, I think you should abruptly change the topic to whatever interests you, the cavendish banana extinction is EXTREMELY interesting AND quirky enough to be funny! It's a great conversation piece! If the person doesn't know about it, fill them in!

[Brutha]

So I had just finished a conversation with someone and was standing around trying to figure out what to do next when one of the hostesses grabbed my hand, grabbed a nearby girl's hand, and taped us together. She then informed us that, to encourage people to mix, she was doing this to random people (I think we were the only ones this happened to).

Basically the hostess thought that she can help you to get into a conversation with a girl you didn't know and you found it uncomfortable and asked the girl to end it.

Is there some open ended question I could ask to get them to talk about whatever their passion is?

"What is the greatest passion in your life?"
It's not about tricking the other person, but about being genuine and asking the other person the thing you are interested in.

[LordSappington]

Originally Posted by Brutha

Basically the hostess thought that she can help you to get into a conversation with a girl you didn't know and you found it uncomfortable and asked the girl to end it.
"What is the greatest passion in your life?"
It's not about tricking the other person, but about being genuine and asking the other person the thing you are interested in.

Yeah, the conversation was dying, and I decided to end it before she did. I'd say the majority of the time, it's the other person who ends it early because they get bored or really never wanted to talk to me in the first place. I've learned that a large part of conversation is learning when to eject. No one wants to stand around and look stupid.

If someone asked me what my passion was, I think I would be freaked out. It sounds like an interview question ("If you could eat dinner with any historical figure, alive or dead, who would it be and why?"), and I think you have to build up from small talk to that. Perhaps my problem is that my conversations start out small and never go anywhere.

Most of the stuff I've read suggests that you first elicit values from someone based on what they talk about and then get into those heavier discussions. Is there some sort of fluffier way to elicit values? I've found conversations much easier in people who work in jobs that help other people (teachers, social workers, therapists, doctors) because I can ask them about what their future goals are in terms of their career. But even that is trite and somewhat boring.

So, I'd like to see how one of you would handle the above conversation and how you'd take the conversation from fluff to substance. Keep in mind that this girl was ~21 years old, it was a Halloween party, and we're all graduate students. Btw, we did discuss our respective costumes for quite a bit, but I edited that part out because, well, eventually, it all ran out of steam.

[funchy]

It sounds like you're not really in control of the interactions, when they start/end, or who they're with. Do you feel like you're just a passive person? Or do you just not know how to lead the conversation at times?

[LordSappington]

Originally Posted by funchy

It sounds like you're not really in control of the interactions, when they start/end, or who they're with. Do you feel like you're just a passive person? Or do you just not know how to lead the conversation at times?

Over the past 2 years, I have developed the ability to start interactions. I still have trouble doing it in many situations, but if I'm feeling friendly and relaxed (I'd say about 40-50% of the time), I can start conversations with lots of people without much stress (the other times... well, that's for a different day to discuss). People have told me that I'm a passive person in many aspects and I have difficult speaking up, especially if I have to speak up and over someone else who is louder. I definitely do not know how to lead the conversation.

People tell me that I think too much about this and I should just let conversations happen. I personally think that is terrible advice since the problem seems clear to me that simply letting conversations happen without any sort of direction is a recipe for failure. You can only talk about fluff for so long before the other person becomes bored, and it's been my experience that most of the time, the other person really isn't interested in talking to me when I first approach them, and I have about 1 - 2 minutes to convince them that I'm worth their time. Just because everyone else can subconsciously and smoothly guide them, doesn't mean I can.

[angies]

From reading the post, I think you need to expand your life beyond studying. Do you have any interests or hobbies? Do you travel, Do you read any books other than study books? Do you play any sports, watch any movies? What do you do for fun? all these life activities makes up the whole person of who you are.

If you don't do any thing for fun, you can't relate to other people about what they do for fun. If the only thing that you can converse intelligently about is your study then no wonder you always run out of thing to talk about. If you have not got any thing that interesting to talk about, what about asking people what interest them and then show genuine interest in what they tell you. May be you can pick up on what you need to do to slowly build up your new persona.

One of my friends used to be so timid, and then she made the point of trying to be more sociable. She changed her dressing style not so much to be more fashionable, but brighter, funkier and more fun. She joined up with the fun girls at work for lunch. Because it always is in a group, she often did not have to say much but just listen and make the occasional comments. Because she is such a lovely and friendly person, nobody mind having her around. After a while she becomes part of the whole group, she talk what we talk and sometimes we can't even shut her up.

[LordSappington]

Originally Posted by angies

From reading the post, I think you need to expand your life beyond studying. Do you have any interests or hobbies? Do you travel, Do you read any books other than study books? Do you play any sports, watch any movies? What do you do for fun? all these life activities makes up the whole person of who you are.

I do have a life beyond studying, although it's not much of a social life. I take guitar lessons and am pretty serious about it. I go to the gym 4 days a week and now swim 2-3 days a week. I used to play Frisbee with two different leagues, but I injured myself and had to stop. I ride the bus to work and read history books which are not remotely relevant to my school work. I volunteer pretty regularly on Saturday mornings. Sometimes I volunteer with other young professional groups, although they have surprisingly few opportunities to do so. I show up at various social happy hours for a variety of groups of people my age, but I'm usually alone and don't know anyone there, making it hard to really break into the group. I go to a set of free concerts once a week, alone. I used to invite people I was interested in befriending, but now I don't because no one ever took me up on the offer. I can generally keep myself busy during the week, albeit without any company. But Fridays and Saturday nights are just killer for me.

[angies]

You poor thing. You sound so lonely and the people around you sound so mean. I am not sure what you have done to them to deserve such hostility. I am a very outgoing person and I find it easy to be in many social situations. I always try to be friendly to people who are a bit more shy than me to make them feel more comfortable in difficult social situations. And often after an initial confidence building period, the person would become less shy and will open up more and learn to be more sociable.

But we cannot change other people, the only way we can improve your situation is for you to change yourself. I suggest s few thing that you can do:

1. Change your dressing style to be a bit more conforming to your peer group. Yep superficial I know but that how us human being works in social condition. We tend to group with people who are similar to us. If you don't care what people think and do your own thing and be happy with it than fine. But in this case I think you are not happy with the situation. So try it out it may not be as bas as you thought. It can be really fun. It sort of is easy for me because I am a girl and I like dressing up. For guys it's probably more effort involved than fun. But it's worth it trust me.
2. Read a number of book on how to improve your conversation skill. I have read a few and trust me there are good ideas in those books. and practice, practice, practice.
3. Be brave to put yourself in awkward situations and try out those newly learned techniques. If you get rejected don't get it to heart just brush it off as another lesson learn and move on.
4. Do not reject other people first because of your fear of rejection. After all there is no big investment here on your part other than the willingness to be friendly and have a pleasant conversation. If people don't want to talk to you just think of it as their loss. Do learn from what you do wrong and improve on it next time.
5. Lighten up and do not take yourself seriously. Do not afraid of awkward moments. Just make fun of it if you can feel the tension in the air. Say something stupid like to lighten up the mood. Watch funny movies, they lift your moods, and give you lots of hint for funny conversation. I like Seinfield and Two and a half men. There are many one liners that you can use. Eventually you will be able to think of your own funny lines. But for now just copy other. Just fake it till you make it.
6. Ask other what you have done wrong so you can improve on it. Don't take it as rejection when people tell you what you do wrong. Lots of the time people won't say why they just don't want to hang out with you. For those who do tell you, just thank them for their kindness and try to see if it something that you can change. Sometime people feel releuctant to tell you in person so email is a great tools for this kind of questions. No awkwardness if they don't want to answer.
7. Do be willing to change. For things that you can't change like your look, height, eye color etc. then accept it, for anything else that you can change like your weight, your hygiene, your dressing, your knowledge etc. Do change.
8. Absorb like crazy information around you. One day you be surprise how knowledgable you become. Read newspaper every day to get uptodate news of what happen around you and the world. These give you great amount of conversation. If you run out of things to say. just mention the latest news "Hey did you hear about that story in the news today", "how terrible that things like that would happen" etc. Don't worry if it does not happen overnight. Just keep on reading, the infomation will sink in and one they will just flow out of you so natually.

Good luck. You can do it.

[allen080105]

I used to be like that. Then I bought a copy of The Secret and it completely changed me. The movie itself didn't really help me that much until after I listened to Rhonda Byrnes commentary.

She was basically saying to feel good. She said to write a list of everything that makes you feel good and try to do what's on that list as much as possible. Whenever you get mad/angry/overwhelmed/stressed, hurry up and get back to that list. You really have to think about it because its probably not things like video games that might give you a temporary high and then when you turn it off you feel like you've wasted time and feel guilt. What happened with me was that I started to naturally shed all the things that were making me angry/overwhelmed/stressed/mad. I guess I had no choice seeing as I was only doing things that felt good.

I'm saying all this because if you feel lonely, you're only going to attract more loneliness. Have you ever noticed the people that lead conversations seem like they need love the least? that's not an accident. They genuinely feel good. I used to always wonder why the girls that hit on me always seemed so lonely now I know. It was because I felt lonely and I attracted more lonely people

[seeker5]

LordSappington,

You've obviously done a lot of studying and research on this subject. You don't seem to be shy, and you seem to be willing to be courageous in this subject. You seem to know the "if x do y" type of stuff.

However, I have the feeling from reading your posts that it was all mechanical - that there was no heart in it, and that it was all outside-in stuff. That you focused just on the skill aspect of how to say stuff, what to do, instead of the inner aspect of yourself, of your inner being. That's a popular approach (focusing on the skill aspect) and one many people in this thread suggest.

However, since this approach isn't working for you, have you though of trying a completely different approach? That is, work on yourself from an inner perspective, instead of working on your skills set. As Steve writes in his book - your relationships with others is a reflection of your relationship with yourself. So forget all the "skills" and instead work on loving all parts of yourself. Work on digging up disempowering beliefs and replace them with empowering beliefs. Work on sending out love to yourself and to others, imagine feeling connected, feel connected to others without talking to them. Work on having an amazing absolutely lovely time alone so that when you meet others, it's not to meet your need, but it's for you to share a part of yourself with them as a gift.

Two weeks ago I went hiking, on what I now call a love hike. I went purposely by myself into nature with the purpose of sending out love all through my body and love to others I would encounter. I was able to feel so deeply connected with myself and to others, it was amazing, the love flowing was amazing. As a result, that entire week, I felt so much more connected with people then I normally would have been that it was amazing. Conversations sprung up much more naturally, easier, and I connected with others so much better, got invited to more events naturally and deepened my friendships with some of my classmates.

Just a suggestion from a fellow grad student on a similar journey to expand his social life as you're on.