He doesn't believe in certainty - what should I do?

[Farryn]

Hi This is my first post. I was searching the internet about when to break up with someone, and about uncertainties in relationships when I came by a post in this forum. I was amazed by everyone's thoughtful advice and intelligent insight!! I signed up immediately hoping that I could find help here, and that I could later offer help of my own.

My problem: I've been in a relationship for 5 months with a man who doesn't believe in certainties and who claims not to know what love is. I care about this man alot, but I'm struggling so much with the idea of uncertainty in this relationship!! He constantly says that he doesn't know what he'll want in the future; he doesn't know if he'll want me or if he'll meet someone else; he doesn't know if one of us will move away etc so when I ask him about the future he always says, "I don't know".

I do believe that he cares about me a lot though. He treats me really well, we have great conversations, and I understand why he feels the way he does (his parents were divorced when he was a child).

Recently, I spoke to him about breaking up (this same certainty/uncertainty issue keeps coming up). Now he tells me he loves me (I find it difficult to believe him though), and he still tells me that he doesn't know if we'll be together but that he hopes we will be.

I understand that lots of things in life are uncertain, but I find that reality incredibly depressing! I always feel sad and helpless when I'm reminded that there are no certainties in life. That reality makes me want to be single for the rest of my life; it makes me want to give up.

Should I break up with this man and go back to my delusions of certainty (or, on the opposite end, an entire life without any committed romantic relationship)?? Or should I stay with him and accept the fact that in life there are no certainties?

[Angela]

He's right, you know; there are of course no certainties in life. Relationships do not last forever, neither do desires, and most importantly, neither do our lives. If you're willing to let go of "that's depressing," another way to look at it is "that's thrilling!" Your life lays ahead of you as an exciting adventure, always changing.

However -- from the way you've described this man, it's not so much that he's uncertain as that he's hedging his bets. After five months together, it's reasonable to believe he's able to choose -- yes or no -- to a committed relationship. By never declaring a solid intention in your relationship, he's offloading responsibility for the moment he wants out. He'll be able to honestly tell you "I told you!" Well, honestly, but not really authentically.

If I were you, I'd let him know you're ready for a committed relationship. That you would love for it to be with him, but that you are giving him a loving and free space to choose. If you'd like to keep seeing him even if he says he's not ready to commit, do so, but be sure to tell him clearly and directly that you'll be seeing other men with the intention of creating a committed relationship. And make a point of doing so, even though you may not be in the mood to. In other words, turn the tables. I think better would be to DTMFA, and focus your intentional energy on finding the right courageous, loving man with whom you can forge an adventurous, delicious, committed life, even though you're both aware life can change on a dime.

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Farryn

a man who doesn't believe in certainties and who claims not to know what love is.

I can only offer this: Aqualgidus.org > The Definition of Love with the assurance that I will do my best to respond to any questions regarding it.

Originally Posted by Farryn

Should I break up with this man and go back to my delusions of certainty (or, on the opposite end, an entire life without any committed romantic relationship)?? Or should I stay with him and accept the fact that in life there are no certainties?

Neither love nor any other sustained relationship requires that you both have complete agreement with each other's beliefs. I have two friends, one is a hardcore conservative, the other a hardcore liberal. It's actually quite fun to watch them verbally take it out on each other on political issues. Yet, we all still do things together, talk about other things, and interestingly, when they talk about what needs to be done, politically, they're also in complete agreement.

You can believe in certainty even if he doesn't. Agree to disagree.

[tc33]

Hi Farryn! Allow me to offer a man's perspective. FWIW, I was a "I don't know" guy for many years

You didn't mention your age or the age of your boyfriend, but I'll guess early- to mid-20's. This can be a difficult period for a lot of men. A man must begin to establish himself in the "real world": get an education; begin a career; find a woman & start a family; establish an identity; etc. Of course, men don't usually verbalize these challenges to other people; they simply do the best they can with what they have, or unconsciously decide to not make decisions and see what pans out.

If your boyfriend is as confused/indecisive about everything as you describe, your pressure will probably not help the situation. It may even cause him to begin to resent you to some degree (if he doesn't already). If I were in your shoes, I would see myself as having two choices: back off of the "I want to get married and have kids tonight" approach and help him through his challenges, or dump him and find someone stable that's willing to commit to you.

Additionally, if my guess is right and you're in your early 20's, what's the hurry? Give the man some time, or find someone older than yourself. If my guess is wrong and you're both pushing 30+, dump him. You obviously have a deep need for a stable, committed relationship, and I don't think your expectation is unreasonable at that age.

Gotta go, I think I hear Santa on my roof...

Tom

[young guy]

Listen your advices,i recall the misery of the past .As a man ,the career is my first choice.So i missed a romantic love,and lost a girl who i love deeply.

[Farryn]

Thank you for your replies! I definitely like the idea of talking to him and letting him know that if he doesn't want a committment then I'll be open to finding one with someone else.

About age: He's 30 and I'm 24.

Thanks too for the definition of love! I wanted to show him haha but I didn't want him to know that I was writing about him.

I can feel myself shutting off a little more every day. I don't think you can build a strong relationship when one person is constantly in the "I don't knows"...

Oh, and thank you very much for offering a different perspective of uncertainty (that uncertainty can be thrilling instead of depressing). I was feeling really low because of the way I was looking at uncertainties in life, and even though I still haven't ridded myself of my previous perspective, at least I know that there's another option that I can work toward believing.

All in all, if I value this relationship I suppose I'll have to talk to him eventually in a constructive (not pushy) way about how I'm feeling... even though with all the shutting down I've been doing I worry that it's too late. If we do talk I'll wait 'til tomorrow though... I'll let Christmas be Christmas.

Thanks again!!

[Michael Chui]

Originally Posted by Farryn

Thanks too for the definition of love! I wanted to show him haha but I didn't want him to know that I was writing about him.

You could just say you found it. It's in my signature, after all, and I've been trying (not really, since the website's not ready) to increase its page rank.

[Brutha]

I wanted to show him haha but I didn't want him to know that I was writing about him.

Why not?
Reading this thread might give him some perspective.

[tc33]

He's 30??? Wow. I would kindly show him the door. Next!

But hey, it's your life. Good luck with that.

[belugagirl]

Wow, this is a tough one to give advice on, partly because we don't know the exact context in which he starts to talk about uncertainties. Is it when you bring up the subject of your commitment? When you talk about possibilities for the future? And how far in the future are you talking about? Are you talking about a vacation to take next summer, or talking about where you'd like to live in five years? Or how big a family you'd like to have someday? If it's one of these later questions, I would suggest that five months may be a bit early to start planning an extended future together. In that case, I wouldn't blame him for not being on board with that type of future-planning yet.

If his talk about uncertainties is more general, giving you the impression that he is skeptical about the possibility of real commitment at any time in a relationship, that's another matter. Then, I think, the issue is less about what "certainty" means and more about what "commitment" means. In this case, have a talk with him about how he feels about commitment in general--not just in relationship to you, but how he thinks relationships work or should work. What does he want? Does he want to, say, get married someday, but he's afraid of making that commitment because he's seen from experience (his parents) that it doesn't always work out forever? Or does he value freedom above commitment, such that he enjoys being with you now, but wants you both to stay together because you continue to want to and not just because you "committed"? Does he wish to be exclusive but not plan for the future? What is commitment to him? And then what is it to you? If you want a different kind of commitment than what he's willing to participate in, then . . . you'd be settling for less than you want by staying with him--or at least staying with him exclusively. I like the idea of telling him what you want and letting him know that if he is not into that degree of commitment, that you will also be dating other men in the hopes of finding one whose idea of commitment is more compatible with yours.

Good luck, whatever you decide, and welcome to the PD forum!

[Isis Kali]

Meh. He sounds committment-phobic. At the age of 30, if he can't be grown enough to be honest, come right out, and say, "I don't feel like settling down. I don't want to leave you dangling. Let's just be casual," then he doesn't deserve to be with you.

Think about it. By waffling, he's holding you up from potentially meeting someone that will give you what you want. You could sit there and wait for him to make up his mind for a long, long time. A lot of guys say that the future is so "uncertain" to cover up for their later infidelity or foolishness. When you confront them, they can say, "Oh, well, I never said that anything was solid/permanent. In fact, I said quite the opposite!"

I have to also say that his coming out and saying he loves you just when you're about to bounce isn't the best thing, either. Sounds manipulative. He's giving you juuuuust enough to keep you with him. A lot of things like that are about control, on some level.

If a man wants to be with you, he'll be with you. All the way. Full stop. Especially at his age. Don't let anyone control you by dangling the promise of fulfillment in your face.

(Sorry if I sound like a Bitter Betty, but I've had this sort of thing happen to me, and no good woman deserves to be continually trifled with. Give someone the respect of being upfront, genuine, and resolved in your stance!)

[Eli]

It sounds to me that he has affected by the breakup of his parents even if he won't admit it. If U want be his life long therapist and hope to change him then I would say stay. But if you want a life of meaning then I would say pick up and say goodbye. Be good to yourself. Peace.

[Dating Specialist]

Well, there are "uncertainties" in life that give you the thrill, excitement and anticipation to look forward to. Because life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what it is unless you open it up, and eat it!

On the flip side of the coin, there're these "uncertainties" that speaks of the unwillingness to make decisions, to commit. We aren't fortune tellers, so we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. But we do know that by choosing to be with someone we love, its a certain thing that you'll see him the next day, that it's a certainty that he'll be there when you need him to be around, that it's a certainty that you both want this relationship to work out, and eventually entering into a more certain things call marriage.

Sometimes people freak out and don't dare to make decisions, choices and commit to the decisions and choices out of fear. But if it seems to apply to every aspect of his life, then there's something not very right with him I'm afraid!

To me it's a warning sign. By ignoring those warning bells, could you in any way be abetting his indulgence in not having to make a decision throughout his life? That's not how love is supposed to be, in my opinion.

[Matthew Shea]

I have to agree completely with Isis. The whole certainty vs. uncertainty thing sounds like a coverup for a fear of commitment. I'd tell him something on the order of "I've been thinking about this "certainty" thing and have decided I'm unwilling to tolerate it any more. I'm looking for commitment here. If you're willing to provide that, fine, otherwise I want out." In other words, force his hand. Chances are he'll want to break up and you'll be free to move onto someone who more closely matches your goals in life. If he does decide to commit, you'll have gotten what you wanted too, but don't let him weasel his way out of it in the future.

[Keith]

It seems to me that formalising commitment is a bit overrated. Take the ultimate example - marriage. If two people genuinely love each other and want to be together, do they really need a ceremony and a piece of paper to legally bind them together? Conversely, will that law and that piece of paper hold together people who don't want to be?

The idea of formal commitment seems a bit damaging and insulting to me: it's like saying "I don't trust you to stay with me of your own volition, so I need some sort of insurance".

If you both feel the need to make some grand expression to say "Hey world, we're in love!" that's different. But a need to bind your love in chains lest it escape?

Another thing that often happens is that, once a relationship is rubber-stamped people tick a mental checkbox that says "In a good relationship" and, with that task done, they start taking the relationship for granted. IMO, a relationship where two people choose, on an ongoing basis, to stay together because they value each other is going to be a more considerate relationship than one where people stay together because they're 'hitched'.

I know my opinions on this matter are a bit non-standard and I'm not necessarily very mature , so please disregard if this isn't applicable to your situation.

P.S. I'd be interested to know if this gentleman's reluctance towards certainty applies to all areas of his life, or just to relationships.

[Holistic Star]

It's 5 months in, he's 'uncertain about the future', you're unhappy with the relationship. (otherwise why are you posting?) You know this isn't a great relationship.

You're 24! Get out there and have fun. Not necessarily dating, but having fun and start working out what you want out of life. Look back at your post and look at how much space you give to analysing his feelings and motivations. What about your life? Where do you want to be in 5 years time? (Is it to be pushing 30 and still with someone who doesn't know what love is?)

I just want to clarify that I'm not telling you to dump him if you don't want to. But have a look at how you spend your time. If a lot of it is spent with him feeling uncertain or alone thinking about him feeling unhappy, start tipping the balance to focusing on your life and being with friends and getting out there. Your 20s are a fantastic time of life - you'll never have those years again. Use them wisely!

PS I'll second the fact that he is manipulative in that he suddenly tells you he loves you when he senses that he is losing you. Start to slip back into feeling secure with him and all of a sudden he won't know what love is again.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[madgeylou]

Originally Posted by Angela

He's right, you know; there are of course no certainties in life. Relationships do not last forever, neither do desires, and most importantly, neither do our lives. If you're willing to let go of "that's depressing," another way to look at it is "that's thrilling!" Your life lays ahead of you as an exciting adventure, always changing.

However -- from the way you've described this man, it's not so much that he's uncertain as that he's hedging his bets. After five months together, it's reasonable to believe he's able to choose -- yes or no -- to a committed relationship. By never declaring a solid intention in your relationship, he's offloading responsibility for the moment he wants out. He'll be able to honestly tell you "I told you!" Well, honestly, but not really authentically.

If I were you, I'd let him know you're ready for a committed relationship. That you would love for it to be with him, but that you are giving him a loving and free space to choose. If you'd like to keep seeing him even if he says he's not ready to commit, do so, but be sure to tell him clearly and directly that you'll be seeing other men with the intention of creating a committed relationship. And make a point of doing so, even though you may not be in the mood to. In other words, turn the tables. I think better would be to DTMFA, and focus your intentional energy on finding the right courageous, loving man with whom you can forge an adventurous, delicious, committed life, even though you're both aware life can change on a dime.

great advice.

sounds to me like this guy has one foot in the boat and one foot on the shore and likes it that way. if you want to sail off into the sunset, he's not your man. time to go fishin.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Keith

It seems to me that formalising commitment is a bit overrated. Take the ultimate example - marriage. If two people genuinely love each other and want to be together, do they really need a ceremony and a piece of paper to legally bind them together? Conversely, will that law and that piece of paper hold together people who don't want to be?

Hey, Keith; I understand your points. A formal commitment doesn't necessarily require government intervention or the "piece of paper." I think what Farryn (and lots of people) would like in a relationship is a declaration: "I'm for you, and you're for me -- let's give this our best go." You mentioned trust, and it is important that each partner make a formal declaration of what the other can expect in order for trust to flourish. A person really does put her/himself at some risk, emotionally and physically, when they enter a romantic relationship, and it makes sense to determine the terms of the deal. Maybe they won't last till death do you part, but at least each should enter the partnership with good faith, and be able to strongly rely on each other's word, as if it were their own. That's the best sort of partnership.

It's not so much about declaring "we're in love!" - that's the easy part, and won't last. The power comes in saying "We're a team!" and making each other's lives better out of that wild-ass synergy.

What do you think? Isn't that something you'd want for yourself?

[Keith]

Personally, 'declaring commitment' strikes me as a special case of imposing 'shoulds' on yourself, and I don't trust 'shoulds'. They tend to get you internally warring between what you 'should' do and what you think is right. IMO, if you can't feel a strong connection, then the words "Sure, I commit to you" aren't going to make a difference - and if you can feel it, then the words are redundant. But I'm a romantic.

I stand by what I said, but I'm no longer convinced it applies to Farryn's situation.

Farryn's description indicates that, even ignoring the issue of formal commitment, she has strong reservations about the quality of the relationship. IMO that's the crux of the matter.

Farryn, I suspect you've answered your own question in the way you've phrased it. IMO, commitment's a red herring. Set it aside for a moment and ask yourself - do you really want to spend (say) the next 5 years of your life with this guy?

[Angela]

Keith Romantico: I understand your not wanting to put "shoulds" on yourself, and I'll bet Farryn's amoroso would pound his fist on the table and say "Exactly!" about your concerns.

And here's why declaring a commitment in any relationship -- lover, boss, yourself -- has value: because it creates Power.

It's not about "shoulds." It's about a conversation: "I've made this commitment, how much will it cost me, and how much will it cost the other person, if I break it? What is negotiable in light of new developments? How would I feel if she reneged on me?" And if you resolve your questions with a win-win attitude, you make your relationships stronger, your future gains more likely, your sense of accomplishment strengthened, and you create freedom, love, and power. You don't have to compromise your values to do that.

Same thing with a love relationship. Within the context of a commitment, you're telling each other: "I promise to approach our lives with an eye to both of us winning together."

Believe me, in a caring relationship, such declarations of commitment will NEVER be considered redundant by a woman!

[Michael Chui]

I'm just responding to Angela, here; I didn't bother to re-read Farryn's original post. My response to her is already there.

Originally Posted by Angela

And here's why declaring a commitment in any relationship -- lover, boss, yourself -- has value: because it creates Power.

That's wonderful; power by who over what?

Originally Posted by Angela

"I've made this commitment, how much will it cost me, and how much will it cost the other person, if I break it? What is negotiable in light of new developments? How would I feel if she reneged on me?"

So this affirmation of a commitment is a series of questions doubting the future of the commitment?

Originally Posted by Angela

Same thing with a love relationship. Within the context of a commitment, you're telling each other: "I promise to approach our lives with an eye to both of us winning together."

Even if that means not winning at all? What if winning involves separation? Putting on a pair of blinders where there is no victory but a victory together does not sound, to me, like a wise strategy. But it sounds nice on an epitaph.

Originally Posted by Angela

Believe me, in a caring relationship, such declarations of commitment will NEVER be considered redundant by a woman!

I really hate it when people take it upon themselves to be spokespersons for 50% of the world.

I'm a very commitment-shy person. Why? Because I know I might be wrong. I know this doesn't apply to everyone; many are stubborn and dead-set. Some people can believe no wrong about certain others, and will voluntarily die defending a criminal. Fine. I can respect that, even if I must disagree with it. Sorry, it's not for me.

I'm not afraid of social commitments: I merely don't believe in them. They are, in my opinion, stupid, stagnating, and stultifying. That people are so insecure about themselves that they must be secure of some other person will stick with them is horrifying. How have we trained our children, that they are afraid of disagreeing with the world, of taking the road less traveled?

I realize, you might say: we're not talking about herd mentality. But I think that's missing a point. A commitment is a safety net, a security. If the contract is broken, you receive a compensation for the loss. If the rest of the world goes wrong, you can rely on this old dependence, this fall-back. No, it isn't herd mentality, because that has to do with large groups of people.

But the psychological mechanic is the same: you can't stand on your own.

[Angela]

Hi, Michael. I feel like I pushed your button, and I'm sorry if my post rankled you. Please know that I'm only outlining the value of commitment as I have learned to enjoy it -- not demanding that anyone else commit!

Here are my answers to your questions:

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

power by who over what?

I'm not interested in power-over. The power that I have in making a promise with integrity is power for myself.

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

So this affirmation of a commitment is a series of questions doubting the future of the commitment?

No. A declaration of a commitment is a declarative sentence. "I promise to...." The series of questions part comes during the course of a relationship, whereby you negotiate how to best live out your promise for everyone's highest good, within the context of your promise. For instance, say you're committed relationship includes the intention to be sexually faithful, and sometime along in your relationship one of you is presented with a temptation to have sex with someone else. That would be a good time to ask questions first of yourself, and next with your partner if appropriate, like the ones I've listed. The answers might mean a total renegotiation of the entire commitment, and that can be a good thing.

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Even if that means not winning at all? What if winning involves separation? Putting on a pair of blinders where there is no victory but a victory together does not sound, to me, like a wise strategy. But it sounds nice on an epitaph.

It's the good faith that makes the difference, with each committed to the highest good for both partners. Yes, winning might involve separation. I get the feeling you think I'm saying everybody should mate for life, with no chance of parole. I'm not. I'm talking about vital, constantly evolving growth -- not marriage and till-death-do-you-part, as you would have seen from my previous posting in this thread. Blinders? I don't understand why you would infer that. On the contrary, I'm talking about open, constant communication and awareness.

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

I really hate it when people take it upon themselves to be spokespersons for 50% of the world.

Perhaps I should have used a smilie -- I only meant to take it upon myself to be a light-hearted, winking spokeswoman for 50% of the world.

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

I'm a very commitment-shy person. Why? Because I know I might be wrong........you can't stand on your own.

Wrong about what? You make choices, you make mistakes, you make corrections, you learn, you adapt. Nothing wrong about anything you can do with that. Sometimes it involves pain and disappointment. That's life. As for the standing on your own, I think the best committed relationships are the ones in which each person is committed to being a strong individual partner, not a leaner.

When you enter a commitment thinking you can make a person stay by your side forever and "complete" you somehow, that's born of insecurity and I agree that that's not a healthy way to go -- although some people need to live that out in order to learn something. But two people saying to each other, "let's give it our best shot to live our lives with love together!" is powerful (not power over!) because love is something you generate, not something you get.

By the way, Michael, I am talking about any commitment you make with integrity, not just romantic ones. Commitment has value. But it's not a requirement, and I'm not saying you "should" make any commitment. It's one choice out of many many, and timing is key!

In my opinion, I think long-term romantic commitment is best postponed till you're at least 30. Especially for women.

[Cassie]

Farryn, I'm in an eerily similar situation as you, except I've been with my guy for almost a year now. He's 31 and I am 26.

When we make an emotional investment in someone, we want to know it's reciprocated. For my own values, the purpose of dating is to find that special partner to settle down and eventually join my life with. We are undeniably a team.

Reading your post made me realize I'm settling for much less than I should be. I love this man very much, but he's way too wishy-washy.

His loss, I suppose.

I'm going to have a talk with him tomorrow and let him know I'll be seeing other people in pursuit of someone who is not afraid of commitment. Either it will razzle him into seeing what he has is too special to let go, or he should be fine with it, in which case I'll not stop myself from accepting dates from others.

Either way, I'm done putting my heart out there for someone who is putting minimum effort into making our relationship work.

When you love someone, you know. Anyone who sacrifices that out of fear is a fool, in my eyes. I'm also willing to accept that it may just not be right for him either.

I'd suggest watching your man's actions very carefully. They speak volumes, and bare more weight than words. I'd advise listening to your gut instinct about this.

Relationships are ultimately supposed to be an oasis of peace and support. Don't settle. You deserve the world.

[Michael Chui]

editing to add a Disclaimer: I've been in a bad mood tonight. At this point, I've got the entire response written up, so I figure it's okay to just submit it, but I might be more... vitrolic than I want to be. I'll edit it tomorrow or the next day if I find parts that are really bad. My apologies in advance.

Originally Posted by Angela

Hi, Michael. I feel like I pushed your button, and I'm sorry if my post rankled you.

I have had a lot of experience, in the past, with relationships and their nuance. Most of my friends see me as a cross between a knowledgeable person and an impartial one, meaning I end up in the role of an advice dispenser in cases of conflict. So, when problems arise, guess who gets told a story?

As a result, and because I am naturally an abstract thinker who likes to interweave everything he knows into a single theory, I have blended and looked and studied and prodded and tweaked relationships as deeply as I could, motivated in part by curiosity, but more out of a desire to never again see the grevious pain my friends suffer.

Originally Posted by Angela

I'm not interested in power-over. The power that I have in making a promise with integrity is power for myself.

Power is, by definition, power over something, and equally, is power wielded by someone or something.

Originally Posted by Angela

I get the feeling you think I'm saying everybody should mate for life, with no chance of parole. I'm not. I'm talking about vital, constantly evolving growth -- not marriage and till-death-do-you-part, as you would have seen from my previous posting in this thread.

I was responding directly to a single post, so yes, I may definitely have missed a previous post that would have given me a fuller understanding of your position.

But, near as I can see, you make a distinction between a relationship and a committed relationship. The former can end, whereas the latter is forever (or till-death, depending on your flavor of romance).

Originally Posted by Angela

Perhaps I should have used a smilie -- I only meant to take it upon myself to be a light-hearted, winking spokeswoman for 50% of the world.

But you're not a qualified spokesperson, unless you're speaking on a subject that is an inherent part of being a woman, and I'd be pretty surprised if you could come up with a non-biological topic which you could talk about on behalf of all women.

Originally Posted by Angela

Wrong about what? You make choices, you make mistakes, you make corrections, you learn, you adapt.

But in correcting, you break the commitment. That's what a commitment is: staying the course, not making changes to it. Consider: I make a commitment to this girl. Then I discover she likes to murder people while having sex with them. As far as I'm concerned, I've (almost certainly) made a mistake, and I would very much like to break the commitment.

Originally Posted by Angela

By the way, Michael, I am talking about any commitment you make with integrity, not just romantic ones. Commitment has value.

So am I. Commitment has value; that's why they are so treasured in business. Nearly every contract demands a legally-enforced commitment to ensure that the employee sticks around and produces value. And this is exactly the same commitment that is eventually represented by the marriage contract.

Consider this question: would you ask a friend for a commitment? Why is a partner different?

[Angela]

Michael, you seem quite determined to be right and to make me see how wrong I am about committed relationships. I think I understand how you feel, and have felt similarly in my life; in this thread I've outlined how entering commitments has worked well for me and people around me. Your arguments (and vitriol) lead me to believe that you feel oppressed somehow by my opinions. That's not my intention. I certainly wish you great freedom and love, however you go about creating it.

I spent some time responding to your points and my computer just boofed out and I lost it all! That gave me a moment to see that pursuing this conversation with you isn't likely to help me create freedom or love! So I'm going to sign off on this thread unless I come up with something productive to add later.

To Farryn and others who struggle with commitment issues: best wishes! I hope to read about your successes and struggles. Danger Man's going to feed me breakfast now.

[mtrimpe]

Farryn, I would like to do some projection of my own situation onto the statements of your boyfriend.

I have said those exact statements a while ago myself. I'm still in that relationship and now, over a year into it, I find myself finally being able to consciously formulate what my intuition was saying all along and it is this:

"I love you. I love you as a person and I will always hold that love dearly. When I look at your and my path in life however, I feel that we will need to walk our own separate ways for quite a while before we could ever really be together as independent people. I still have a lot of lessons to learn and so do you and I feel deep inside that I won't be able to learn all my lessons if I stay with you. This doesn't mean I want to leave you right now. I would love to have you in my life for a while, because I think there still are many lessons we can learn from each other. After that though, our paths will need to part and who knows, perhaps fate will bring us together in the end, perhaps fate will prevent us from parting, but I can't tell you if that's the case or not."

I don't know if this applies to your man but if it does, forcing him into commitment you will only delay the inevitable and will force your relationship to end in a break-up instead of a friendly parting. If this does indeed apply to your man, I would like you to ask yourself this:

Can you mentally embrace the concept of being in a good relationship of which both parties know that in all likelihood it will end sometime in the future?

If you can, you will allow him to do one VERY important thing. You will allow him to show his love for you without having to feel guilty about letting you believe that it's going to last forever. You might be surprised at how much love that still is....

[Dating Specialist]

Originally Posted by Angela

Michael, you seem quite determined to be right and to make me see how wrong I am about committed relationships.

So Angela, does this mean you already have an answer to your question?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Dating Specialist

So Angela, does this mean you already have an answer to your question?

Which question is that?

[Dating Specialist]

Originally Posted by Angela

Which question is that?

Oops! I'm sorry. I made a mistake. Please ignore my post.

Silly me

[Farryn]

there were a couple women who said they were in the same situation as me, so I wanted to provide a follow-up now that I'm back on the site (back on because he and I broke up and now I feel free to be me again... can't believe I let myself lose me!).

We live to love and to be happy; that's it. If you want a man (or woman)who's certain about you (if that'll make you happy), go get him (or her)! Don't wait for some confused person to realize how amazing you are. Live your life fully and happily until it brings you in line with someone who thinks you're as amazing as you know you are. And you sure as heck better think he or she is amazing too! Otherwise, leave it alone, because it's not fair to be reckless and dishonest with anyone's heart.

I spent WAY too long in the relationship with the uncertainty guy (6 months was 5 months too long!!). I now feel angry with myself that I didn't leave him sooner. And I regret that I hardly left on my own terms.

Thanks for the words of encouragement from everyone. I should have listened to those of you who advised to leave him. If there is anyone else in the same situation, walk away with your head high while you still can. You deserve so much better than an emotionally impoverished person who can't see the value in love and committment.

Farryn
xoxo