what values are there in girls acting like girls and boys acting like boys.

[Orange]

Does anyone else here see the whole girls acting like girls and wearing girls clothes and boys acting like boys and wearing boys clothes as a big farse!?
I was wondering if there is more reasons behind it than peoples unopeness and social conditioning..
what do you think?

[yossarian]

Some people enjoy it. Simple as that.

I like to play roleplaying games for instance - World of Warcraft or D&D - I like to pretend to be a wizard or a Jedi or Hobbit in a video game. I think it's fun.

In the same way, I think it can be fun to "play" a girl or a boy here on Earth. You don't have to if you don't want to. We all have the choice to choose what is fun for us. I mean, you can't easily change your anatomy and hormones, but you don't have to be a "manly man" or a "feminine woman" if you don't want to. Be what is fun for you.

You call it a "farse" and that is exactly right! All the world is a stage, and all the people merely players! Some people get so immersed in their role that they forget it is only a play!

[Orange]

Originally Posted by yossarian

Some people enjoy it. Simple as that.

I like to play roleplaying games for instance - World of Warcraft or D&D - I like to pretend to be a wizard or a Jedi or Hobbit in a video game. I think it's fun.

In the same way, I think it can be fun to "play" a girl or a boy here on Earth. You don't have to if you don't want to. We all have the choice to choose what is fun for us. I mean, you can't easily change your anatomy and hormones, but you don't have to be a "manly man" or a "feminine woman" if you don't want to. Be what is fun for you.

You call it a "farse" and that is exactly right! All the world is a stage, and all the people merely players! Some people get so immersed in their role that they forget it is only a play!

Thank you very nice reply.

[spookie149]

I've heard that some guys like girls in skirts or dresses, looking more feminine. When I am needing a self-esteem booster I will dress up more "feminine" because I feel more attractive.

I prefer guys looking clean cut in a dress shirt and pants. Maybe it gives off the signal if he looks after himself, he'll provide?

[jeff3]

Originally Posted by spookie149

I've heard that some guys like girls in skirts or dresses, looking more feminine. When I am needing a self-esteem booster I will dress up more "feminine" because I feel more attractive.

I prefer guys looking clean cut in a dress shirt and pants. Maybe it gives off the signal if he looks after himself, he'll provide?

There are many cues given off by both sexes that are only detected unconsciously, that's why sometimes you "just know" that someone is safe,dangerous,easy, ect...these subtle cues are manifestations of our core vibration. Gender roles are the most obvious cues and are very much a part of most every civilization and if you go against them you'll effectively cut yourself off from the % of society that adheres to them. It's fine to do what you want, just don't expect others to play along unless they are "into that", and certainly don't try to force them to accept aberrations from the norm.

[Akashic_Librarian]

I think its essential for a society to work. Boys and Girls have to have separate and easily distinguished qualities. These include, personality traits, clothes, jobs, etc...

[Orange]

Originally Posted by Akashic_Librarian

I think its essential for a society to work. Boys and Girls have to have separate and easily distinguished qualities. These include, personality traits, clothes, jobs, etc...

essential?
Personality traits: So, for men that would be being tuff and strong and women would be to be weak and like fluffy things?
what essential valuea are there in that.. same with clothes.. why would it be a good thing to seperate genders by wearing certan clothes... seems a bit weird to me..
AND JOBS!
Everyone knows girls and boys can both do the same thing, thats just silly!

[funchy]

It's because boys and girls are truly different, and I mean not by genitalia.

Men and women just naturally (generally speaking) have different roles and different preferences. It's not a conditioning thing because some of these things are constants across cultures and time periods.

Watch small children play, especially ones who haven't yet been put in school and been shaped by friends. They will select toys they like, and no amount of reasoning will convince a 4 yr old to stop playing with dolls if she really wants them. While it's true culture shapes the details of how women and men express these differences, some things are just universal.

[Akashic_Librarian]

Orange did I say men have to be tough? Or girls fluffy?

No.

I wasn't necessarily talking about values we have now.

But I still believe there are things boys should be, and things girls should be.


Yes: SHOULD BE.

[oBakasan]

Hah, I find it ironic that I stumbled upon this post while wearing a dress.

And I may fundamentally disagree with you, Akashic, but I admire your dictatorship leanings.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by funchy

Watch small children play, especially ones who haven't yet been put in school and been shaped by friends. They will select toys they like, and no amount of reasoning will convince a 4 yr old to stop playing with dolls if she really wants them. While it's true culture shapes the details of how women and men express these differences, some things are just universal.

It is also true, however, that no amount of reasoning will convince a 4 year old boy to stop playing with dolls if he really wants to.

[Mind Institute]

Originally Posted by Orange

Does anyone else here see the whole girls acting like girls and wearing girls clothes and boys acting like boys and wearing boys clothes as a big farse!?
I was wondering if there is more reasons behind it than peoples unopeness and social conditioning..
what do you think?

Personally, I believe we are more similar than different. However, modern press, TV, and the media and science in general have been on a long expedition now to prove how different we are. HOWEVER, we tend to focus on the outside, on visible factors that please our visual culture.

As yossarian said, we choose to wear certain masks and act them as if there was no other way. Somehow, we like to deprive ourselves of choices and then complain about it...

The question for me becomes how can we shape a future of one tree when we are building a present of toothpicks with repelling magnets in them?

[ragtag]

There was a really interesting episode of Taboo on National Geographic channel that deals with gender and gender roles in different cultures. Such as crossdressers and transexuals in Thailand, India and Samoa. What's interesting in Samoa is that some boys there are raised and dressed as girls from the time they are children, part of their culture I guess.

I also read somewhere about a study on typical feminine and masculine traits, such as women in general being better at synonyms, and how they related to the work people do. It turned out women in a male dominated field such as engineering, had a more masculine brain and men in fields like nursing, a more feminine one. Of course, it's hard to tell if this was the case before they chose a career or a result of the work they did.

I think we shouldn't be too strict on gender identity and that the lines between male and female in some cases are not as clear cut as we like to think, and when we are confronted by this it scares us or freaks us out. Which is why many have so strong reaction to transvestites and transgender people. People have a need to define them as either this or that, which is unfortunate, because life has many shades of gray.

We need to let people be who they are. So forcing a boy to do masculine stuff like play soccer and play with cars, when he would rather have tea parties with his dolls, is in my opinion wrong.

As a side note, I've also read studies show that people who have a good portion of both masculine and feminine traits in their personality, do better in their work. Presumably they have an easier time connecting with both male and female coworkers and customers.

[SomeRandomGuy]

@ragtag - I could not agree more. I believe that the gender differences have more to do with society than with nature. I think it is unhealthy for society to dictate what boys should do and what girls should do. I have seen too many cases of little boys being yelled at by their fathers because they wanted to play with dolls or some other girly thing. I believe that people should be allowed to be themselves, not forced into a mold of what society thinks they should be.

[aelle]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

@ragtag - I could not agree more. I believe that the gender differences have more to do with society than with nature. I think it is unhealthy for society to dictate what boys should do and what girls should do.

Hear, hear.

To the OP: there is an advantage for society at large to maintain gender roles (for the same reason society has an interest in maintaining racial and class roles) : keeping the status quo. When it comes to individuals, though, I agree with you that complying with gender roles (except in punctual situations like mentionned in this thread) doesn't do much and doesn't lead to personal growth.

[Jarreddo]

I'm a guy(hell, I'm 6'3" and covered in body hair) and I still wear skirts, walk with a bit of a sway, etc. In my opinion, there's nothing better than the combination of masculine and feminine energies. Why limit yourself? Explore both sides. Sometimes I'm full of masculine feelings, and sometimes feminine. If I could, I would become entirely female from time to time, though certainly not permanently. Explore your options and don't be afraid of looking silly. If someone feels better in the opposite gender role, or in another gender role that's somewhere in between, there should be absolutely no problem with that.