Is viewing porn while in a relationship cheating?

[SomeRandomGuy]

This was brought up in another post Are All Men Prone to Cheating at Some Point. Rather than hijack that thread to discuss the topic, I decided it would be better to start a separate thread.

I see no logical way to associate porn with cheating, unless an agreement has been made between partners specifically regarding porn. I recognize the fact that porn has many negative aspects, but that does not make it cheating. I have always wondered what logic people apply when making the link between porn and cheating, so would love to hear thoughts from those who feel that way.

[Squid]

Is it cheating? Some women feel cheated when their partner views it. In my relationship the viewing of it by each of us is not hidden or covered up. We have agreed that it's not detrimental to our relationship but I don't think that's the case for a lot of people.

The most damaging thing that that it can do, for most relationships is cause the feeling of inferiority. Most women already feel like an unreasonable amount of pressure is placed on them to be attractive, adding a partner that watches pornography regularly sometimes seems to place a burden of competition on the sex life.

Many women that perform in it are beautiful, they have accentuated features and figures that regular women don't possess. Some men can begin to develop unrealistic expectations because of that. It's very hard to be with someone if you don't feel like you can live up to their fantasies or expectations.

I'm mainly addressing the feelings of women because I have never met a man that felt threatened by a woman viewing it.

[Lauxa]

I don't view pornography or masturbation as cheating. Or romance novels, for that matter.

[jfrancis]

I touched on this in the other thread, but I'll have another stab at it. As I see it 'cheating' has to do much more with breaking agreements in a relationship, rather than just sex. Heck, people in open relationships don't even view sex with others as cheating. It's all about communicating your boundaries with your partner.
Sex still seems to be one of the biggest taboos (at least in my culture- the US) so I can see why anything pornish could be viewed as cheating in a relationship. But if both people decide it's no big deal, then it's no big deal. No need to hide or sneak behind anyone's back. The problem comes when one or both parties does think it's a big deal. Often these agreements are unspoken. People have hangups about porn, yet tons of people still view porn, many of them in secret because they fear that they will be judged, and there are plenty of people who are ready and willing to judge. I think that once you start sneaking around on your partner, though, even if it's just to look at porn, it sets a precedent in the relationship. That's when there's a problem - there needs to be communication. Just my opinion.

[pterodactyl]

Is it cheating? Maybe, if it cheats your spouse (and you) out of having a good life and a good relationship. It isn't 'wrong' in my mind because it's sexually 'immoral', but mainly because it is a powerful way of intentionally misdirecting brain chemistry in order to keep one from the scary business of being present.

I won't get into the deeper aspects of why I think routine viewing of porn is not a good idea for anyone. However, it's up to each partner to ultimately make that choice individually and each partner needs to refrain from persuading the other toward his or her own decision. After being confronted with a tearful spouse, a porn viewer often declares he or she will never do it again, but this decision is often made under conditions of heightened emotion (tears, anger, just trying to avoid the shame of being in this kind of argument) and is ill-reasoned. It becomes yet another contract/expectation one must fulfill. Therein lies the potential for deception. Why create that doorway? You can choose something that binds you together or you can choose to push away; porn is just one way, but there are thousands of ways to do that.

[SomeRandomGuy]

jfancis, I think you hit on a key point when you mentioned the unspoken agreement. Traditionally, being in a serious relationship implies an agreement to be monogamous. Most people view sex outside of that relationship as cheating, unless it has been agreed upon previously, since their is the tradition of that implied agreement. I think that either there is no such implied agreement regarding the viewing of porn, or it is at least not as widely accepted. For this reason, it seems that if one partner has a problem with it it should be communicated and an agreement made. Otherwise, how can it be cheating if there is no agreement to break?

This brings me to another point. Can cheating exist without both parties having entered into an agreement? I suspect there are many situations where lack of communication has left one party believing there has been an agreement on a topic, while the other party feels that no such agreement was ever made. If the party who believes there is no agreement does something to go against what the other party believes was agreed upon, is it considered cheating?

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Squid

Is it cheating? Some women feel cheated when their partner views it. In my relationship the viewing of it by each of us is not hidden or covered up. We have agreed that it's not detrimental to our relationship but I don't think that's the case for a lot of people.

The most damaging thing that that it can do, for most relationships is cause the feeling of inferiority. Most women already feel like an unreasonable amount of pressure is placed on them to be attractive, adding a partner that watches pornography regularly sometimes seems to place a burden of competition on the sex life.

Many women that perform in it are beautiful, they have accentuated features and figures that regular women don't possess. Some men can begin to develop unrealistic expectations because of that. It's very hard to be with someone if you don't feel like you can live up to their fantasies or expectations.

I'm mainly addressing the feelings of women because I have never met a man that felt threatened by a woman viewing it.

You have outlined some of the very real negative implications to a relationship of viewing porn. I am sure that many women have had their self esteem impacted greatly by porn. I also suspect that some men have had the same issues, since male porn stars tend to be more than the average man can measure up to (both in performance and physical attributes). I don't believe that porn in itself is inherently bad, but it can definitely have negative consequences in certain situations. I guess the question is, does making your partner feel bad about themselves equate with cheating?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

I guess the question is, does making your partner feel bad about themselves equate with cheating?

You can't make your partner feel bad about hermself. (S)he has to agree to it. So no.

But if you are acting in bad faith (behaving in a way that disregards or disdains his/her feelings), then you're not doing yourself or your relationship a whole lotta good -- you're not really in a loving, long-term, mutually beneficial relationship (LLTMBR).

[Rose of Cairo]

I agree with jfrancis here, cheating is breaking the rules of a relationship behind your partner's back, no matter what those rules are. If a rule in your relationship is that you don't shower on Sundays, and you secretly shower on a Sunday while your partner's still asleep, then you're cheating. If in your relationship it's ok to have sex with your partner's best friend (or to watch porn), then if you have sex with your partner's best friend (or watch porn), you're not cheating.

I guess problems occur when the rules are unspoken and not congruent with how the people involved really feel about it.

Squid's post reminded me of one of my past experiences so much! Several years ago I had a boyfriend who used to watch porn regularly, and I definitely had a problem with it.

At that time I didn't really like my body and my boyfriend often criticized it harshly, too. I knew he found me too fat, too white, etc. In those porn movies he was watching on the other hand, most women had nearly perfect bodies. Most of them were very young, they were thin, pretty, with perfect breasts, etc. I thought he found them way more attractive than me. I definitely saw porn as a concurrence, and there was just no way I could rival them.

Plus those movies were obviously made for men to identify with, mostly showing the girls. Knowing that my boyfriend looked at them, got sexually aroused by them, masturbated and imagined he was having sex with them really felt like he was cheating on me. It hurt me a lot, in fact it made me sick of jealousy!

Another reason why I found it so unfair is that those movies were so unrealistic. I have no comprehensive knowledge of pornography, but from what I've seen, what happened in those movies would be quite boring for most women in real life. Those girls scream and act as if all this were totally great, when in fact they merely get f***ed. In real life, sex is a bit more complicated and women have higher demands. My boyfriend often got upset at me when he didn't succeed in satisfying me sexually, and what I thought then was "hell yeah, in those movies you watch it's a lot easier, huh?"

I think porn propagates a completely distorted image of sexuality, especially of female sexuality. It's like an unrealistic "made easy" version. Those girls also never have their period, they never have PMS, they have no emotional needs, they're always perfectly epilated and shaved, and so on. How can a real life girlfriend with an average body, with daily life stress and a sexuality that may appear complicated to an inexperienced guy keep up with that?

Sorry for going off-topic and for getting a bit emotional about that. Looks like it needed to get out!

[ssandra]

Of course porn is more "perfect" than real life, and not very realistic.

But on the other side: So are all the romantic movies / books that "we women" like to watch and expect our partners to live up to (romantic candle light diner, deep talks about feelings during soccer matches, grand gestures etc)...

As long as both sides (the porn watching side and the romantic movie watching side) realize that they are watching a fantasy and not real life, and they appreciate real life for what it has to offer, there should be no problem.

[sixx1984]

I agree with Rose of Cairo, it depends on what the rules are in your relationship.

But whether I agreed with porn or not, I personally don't think porn is cheating. I find porn such a hilarious concept that it cracks me up to know that he actually gets turned on by that stuff. Honestly, porn makes me laugh. It's so ridiculous and far fetched. My partner watches it on his laptop and I always know when he's watching it because if I walk into the room it's a mad panic to close the page down. It's funny.

I think it helps that he never compares me to those women. I know he loves me for the way I am, flaws and all. I don't have big boobs or a ripped body, but I have something that I bet many porn stars don't have - a personality!

No, I think unless your man (or woman!) is addicted to porn and it is causing serious issues in your relationship, then just let them have their "fun".

[JimOfferman]

I don't think watching porn is cheating. If you feel hurt because your partner watches porn, then that is your problem, not that of your partner.

That said, I fail to see the appeal of watching porn. Watching paint dry is more entertaining, if you ask me. It's like sports: the fun is in the doing, not the watching (at least in my opinion).

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I agree with jfrancis here, cheating is breaking the rules of a relationship behind your partner's back, no matter what those rules are.

Yeah, the thing is, it's so easy to actually generate rule-breaking in a relationship -- we're taught to do it -- and we're taught HOW to do it -- from the time we're tikes. One really good way to generate rule-breaking is to make rules.

Let's say I tell my boyfriend, "Look, I have a rule: no boyfriend of mine is allowed to look at porn (or take a shower on Sunday )." Even more powerfully, perhaps I have that rule but I never articulate it, which is oh, so common in relationships! Porn is a great example of those unspoken rules -- which sound like, "If he really loved me, he wouldn't need porn," or "She should just KNOW not to email her old boyfriends." When your partner is ordered (or senses that (s)he is considered to be in debt to you) to fall in line with your rules, what do you think is likely to happen? Resistance, maybe? Rebellion? Secret porn and clandestine sunday showers? A-yup. No freedom = no love.

Plus, these rules and debts are inauthentic, because they have no authentic consequences, usually. Even if you say, "If you watch porn, I'm leaving you," it's not as if you're granting freedom. Rather, if he watches porn, you're sentencing yourself to resentment and wrong-making and pain, normally. You may bite your lip and leave him and tell yourself, "well, he made his bed and now he has to lie in it," but what you're actually generating is lots of resistance, even in your departure. You carry that resistance with you into your next relationship ("how can I ever trust my new boyfriend not to do the same thing?!?"). More often, you end up not even taking the actions of your stated consequence; you just remain in the relationship, seething.

From my extensive experience, I've noticed that rules and debts are powerfully erosive forces in relationships. I advocate letting go of them.

Which is not to say I advocate not having agreements in relationship, and living up to them as a matter of integrity and generosity. And having agreement does not necessarily equal having rules and debts.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by ssandra

Of course porn is more "perfect" than real life, and not very realistic.

But on the other side: So are all the romantic movies / books that "we women" like to watch and expect our partners to live up to (romantic candle light diner, deep talks about feelings during soccer matches, grand gestures etc)...

Yes, I do feel a little sorry for the guys who watch the UK version of "Pride and Prejudice" with their girlfriends. There's just no living up to Mr. Darcy.

[marklang500]

I agree that both partners need to have an honest exchange about what it means.

You can't make your partner feel bad about hermself. (S)he has to agree to it. So no.

But if you are acting in bad faith (behaving in a way that disregards or disdains his/her feelings), then you're not doing yourself or your relationship a whole lotta good -- you're not really in a loving, long-term, mutually beneficial relationship (LLTMBR).

Angela, this isn't the first time you've brought up this notion. However, I think that MOST people in the world, (the ones that don't blog about how relationships should work or analyze thier thoughts and feelings from the outside-in) are incapable of "choosing to not feel bad about themselves" when the person they love chooses to get off to images of big-breasted, hard-body hotties.

But then again, that goes back to the honest exchange before hand.

So if someone reading this is in trouble with thier partner for watching porn, then don't use this thread as an excuse to say, "see? It's not bad that I watch porn, it's bad that you get so upset!"

That's what Angela meant by "behaving in a way that disregards or disdains his/her feelings"

As far as the word "cheating" goes. It just depends on what you and your partner consider "cheating". Biblically, it is cheating (new testament). I think that is because it would, in most cases, cause problems in the relationship. This is evidenced by the large number of relationships that have been ruined by porn.

The real question to ask is, why are you using porn? Is your sexual need not being met? If you are using porn to meet a need that your partner isn't meeting, then it is cheating. It would be a better idea to work out the problem of sexual needs then to turn to alternative source. Using an alternative source to have your needs met is cheating. Is it cheating for a woman to have lunch with a co-worker that compliments her in ways that her husband doesn't? Possibly. And that could lead to a worsening of the problem. It is better to work out with her husband the things that she is needing for fulfilment.

[Pequod]

Originally Posted by Rose of Cairo

I think porn propagates a completely distorted image of sexuality, especially of female sexuality. It's like an unrealistic "made easy" version. Those girls also never have their period, they never have PMS, they have no emotional needs, they're always perfectly epilated and shaved, and so on. How can a real life girlfriend with an average body, with daily life stress and a sexuality that may appear complicated to an inexperienced guy keep up with that?

So true. 99% of porn consists of 2 people selected on the size of some of their body-parts (How is that for putting it nicely ) that do some mechanical motions without the tinyest connection. That is not only a turn-off for most women, but for men too.

And yet, I have to admit that there is a certain appeal to it, even though in real life I cannot stand that kind of sex (Have too much experience with it I guess ). It's just the appeal of letting your imagination running wild, stimulated by a film, without the practicalities of the smells, periods, wishes and needs of your SO.

By the way, if one can refrain from watching, I really recommend that. Your body doesn't need it in any way and I've noticed that this feverish stimulation disturbed my mind much more than I ever expected. I call porn nowadays "mind poison".

If you're watching porn and want peace of mind, this is the most effective "30-day trial" I can recommend: to refrain from porn or any other form of mental sexual revery. You'll be surprized!

Back to OP:
On a practical level: Why not talk about it with your SO, share your feelings on the subject and make an agreement about it if you want?

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

I'm laughing at myself right now because I was brought up demonizing porn and in the early times of my relationship pretty much dreaded the thought that my boyfriend might be watching it. I even forbid him from going to Hooters! I felt a lot like Rose described. And to a point I still agree that it's possible for porn to be detrimental to people because of the idealized, stylized, aggrandized image it presents...girls (and guys) should be hot, always willing and will scream in extacy (with hardly any effort at all).

But as time went on and I gained confidence in myself, I began to give up all my rules. The Hooters one went out the window long ago. Looking back it was rediculous! And having the rules did put strain into the relationship. Like I said above I still see porn and strip joints and further down the line prostitution as detrimental in various ways. Many people are exploited and hurt in the process. But porn does not equate cheating anymore in my mind. The problem arises as another poster said when there are unspoken beliefs and requirements about porn in each partner's mind. And, when porn is used in place of a loving sexual relationship between partners or in an attempt to make someone feel less. We are responsible for our own feelings, but it is nice to be in partnership with someone who takes them into consideration.

The main point I'm badly making is to decide for yourself and be honest and open with your partner about what you expect.

[jfrancis]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

This brings me to another point. Can cheating exist without both parties having entered into an agreement? I suspect there are many situations where lack of communication has left one party believing there has been an agreement on a topic, while the other party feels that no such agreement was ever made. If the party who believes there is no agreement does something to go against what the other party believes was agreed upon, is it considered cheating?

I had to read this over a few times just to be sure I was getting all the agreements lined up.
I would have to say no, it isn't cheating. The person who 'broke' the unknown agreement had no way of knowing. If I felt cheated in this situation, it would be because I was making an assumption about what should happen in a relationship, and that just spells trouble. I might feel hurt by his actions, but I wouldn't hold him responsible for that hurt. I would, however, take the opportunity right then and there to communicate that belief. You have to be CLEAR with your partner in matters like this, because we all come from different backgrounds, and something I might think is a "given" in a relationship might not be so for my S.O.
That being said, I think that there are some things which are generally held as taboo in a given culture, and to avoid an ouchy situation, I think it's best to communicate with your partner first before you venture out into those grey areas.
Did I get your question right, by the way?

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by jfrancis

Did I get your question right, by the way?

You did. Your response was pretty much the same thing I was thinking on the subject. I wonder how often this creates problems in relationships, though. Without proper communication it seems very easy for situations to arise where one partner feels cheated based on an assumption they made about an agreement that the other partner never made.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Pequod

Back to OP:
On a practical level: Why not talk about it with your SO, share your feelings on the subject and make an agreement about it if you want?

Thanks for the advice. It is good advice. I would like to clarify, however, that I wasn't posing this question because it applies to me personally. My wife and I have done basically what you suggested, so we are each clear on how each feels regarding this such as this. Communication on these things definitely makes things easier. I started this thread to spark a discussion on the matter because someone had stated in another thread that porn was cheating. I disagreed with the statement, so decided to start a thread to discuss that rather than hijacking the other thread further.

[tcbechtold]

I believe it is a form of cheating. However, if both parties in a relationship agree that it is "okay" for the other to stimulate themselves independently using "porn" as their medium, then that is the essence of a relationship and communication. If it is going on without the other knowing about it, then there might be things missing in that particular relationship that should be addressed. If a partner's needs aren't being meant within the relationship or that partner's appetite is bigger than what the other partner is willing to provide, then just communicate openly if the relationship is at that level. If your "sneaking" around and you know in your gut you shouldn't be doing something, that's usually an indicator that it is wrong as in the case of utilizing porn inside a relationtship without your partner knowing, i.e., cheating. Consider the other person's feelings if they found out about the extra activities; inadequacy, hurt, low self-esteem or "cheated" our of your attention.

[WordKeeper]

I have a different take on it - I think it is a kind of cheating but I think it is cheating yourself in a significant way. This is what I mean.

The most powerful value of sex in a committed relationship is the profound physical intimacy that goes far beyond the physical. But pornography has a way of short circuiting that intimacy and creates a physical act that has nothing to do with all the other really powerful stuff.

The physical drive is so powerful that once the other stuff has been short circuited it is very difficult to reroute it - not unlike the process the brain goes through when a person partakes of opiates.

That to me is the great "cheat" of pornography. It gets the physical sexual response but it alleviates all the other and then the addictive quality of it drives from that physical rush - divorced from the depths of true intimacy.

What a loss.

[funchy]

Depends on the views, values, etc of the other person. If it was really hurting or upsetting the other person, then I would say put the porn away. If you're lying about it, it IS a problem. If you're lying plus spending $19/minute on a phonesex line when your family can't buy groceries, you have a HUGE problem.

I personally see nothing wrong with it, provided it's not detracting from the relationship. Now if he's ignoring me to go read Huster and pet the trouser snake behind a locked bathroom door, then I have an issue. I'd say... unlock the door and let me watch... and stop taking my magazines without asking.

[ssandra]

Originally Posted by WordKeeper

I have a different take on it - I think it is a kind of cheating but I think it is cheating yourself in a significant way. This is what I mean.

The most powerful value of sex in a committed relationship is the profound physical intimacy that goes far beyond the physical. But pornography has a way of short circuiting that intimacy and creates a physical act that has nothing to do with all the other really powerful stuff.

The physical drive is so powerful that once the other stuff has been short circuited it is very difficult to reroute it - not unlike the process the brain goes through when a person partakes of opiates.

That to me is the great "cheat" of pornography. It gets the physical sexual response but it alleviates all the other and then the addictive quality of it drives from that physical rush - divorced from the depths of true intimacy.

What a loss.

I agree that porn is different from real life sex. Just as one-night-stands are different from having sex with your soul mate, or SO, anyway a person you really love.

I would never give up the last to have one of the first of course. But if both agree, why not have both?

Do you still think that is bad? I do not get a rush from porn, I like it, it is different and since variety is the spice of life, it makes my sex life with my husband better. Because it is different... :-)

[niche]

Porn is cheating in my relationship because it makes me feel bad about myself. It may not be cheating in another person's relationship. I believe it is relative to the partners in the relationship. Also, I read something on Post Secret that was kind of funny about this situation. It said something like the female finally watched porn with her boyfriend and is now dissatisfied with his size. So this could be a downfall of porn as well.

[Daffy Duck]

It is up to you and your partner to decide if porn is cheating.

As for me, porn is a waste of time. A boring waste of mental energy. I'd rather spend that time with my partner enjoying real sex, or be working towards another fulfilling goal.

Porn is like a McDonald's hamburger. Sex with my lover is like an expensive steak. Why would I ever bother wasting my time in McDonalds?

[JSB]

I don't think porn is cheating, any more than masturbation and fantasy is cheating. I do think porn can be unhealthy. It's the sexual equivalent of junk food --- it's not good for you, a little bit now and then probably isn't terrible, but regular consumption is bad for you.

We are programmed to respond to sexual stimuli, just as we are programmed to crave sweet food and fatty food. Our natural "sweet tooth" probably developed to attract us to fruit, and our natural desire for fats developed to attract us to high energy food that could help us get the calories our ancestors needed.

Modern junk food takes advantage of these inbuilt triggers, and when there's a cheap, abundant supply of high fructose corn syrup, hydrogenated fats, and other processed pseudo-food, our inbuilt survival instincts drive us to eat ourselves into an early grave.

Likewise, sexual desire obviously kept us breeding and ensured the survival of the human species.

Tens of thousands of years ago, the average male in a tribe of 40 to 100 people may have encountered only a handful of physically attractive women in his entire life. Modern advertising ensures that he is now bombarded with a never-ending variety of digitally enhanced airbrushed images of exceptionally beautiful women perhaps a hundred times a day. Once again, an inbuilt survival mechansim has been "hacked" to the detriment of our Mr. Everyman.

(I'm not excluding women, but the visual sexual response seems a bit more powerful in men. [Heterosexual] Men instinctively tend to be attracted to cues of fertility --- the appearance of youth and health --- whereas women instinctively tend to be attracted to cues of social power --- also used in advertising, but not as easily represented in a single image. Of course women are also physically attracted to beauty, but perhaps to a slightly lesser degree.)

Just as a McDonald's addict will turn away in disgust at a plate full of healthy fruits and vegetables, a porn addict will always be dissatisfied with a real, human, "flawed" partner. I imagine he (more often than she) would eventually become dissatisfied with a porn starlet once he had to deal with her normal human flaws, or once he became bored and started craving variety.

So, porn may not be that bad if watched sparingly, with the understanding that it's all ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and fantasy, but it can be very addictive to some people, so use it with care.

[crescive]

Um, I don't think porn is cheating. I watch porn all the time, I'm a female. I never watch it with my partners, it's purely for my own entertainment. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. He can watch porn all he wants, I know our sex is great, every single time after we have sex we just collapse into each other, cuddling and feeling a wonderful spiritual union, and just lay there talking about how great the sex was. Him watching porn does not make me feel like our sex life or that I am inadequate, that is just absurd. If women feel that way, it should be something that is discussed and both partners should try to reach an understanding, I think it is absurd to jump to such conclusions of hurt or betrayal over it.

[crescive]

I don't know why it's not letting me edit my post but I wanted to say anyone can be sexy, it's not about what you look like but it's a state of mind, and ALL sexually empowered and confident women are sexy!

Believe it or not there are porn actors and actresses in ALL shapes,sizes and ages, and that men are actually a lot more forgiving of physical flaws than us women.

[spookie149]

My ex and I got into an argument about his viewing of porn after his sex drive took a nose dive. Tears were shed, and after many heated discussions we worked out a few things:

1) He said he wasn't attracted to those girls as people. Just their bodies. Watching them helped him get off more easily. Which, as a guy, is apparently almost a daily necessity. This made me feel only a smidgen better.

2) I associate sex with intimacy. Because I only have sex with one other person, I view sharing my sexual side as a very intimate experience. When he watches someone else, it takes away from that intimacy.

3) In the end we decided he could watch it, but I didn't want to know about.


Interestingly, I have watched porn on my own and towards the second half of our relationship we would sometimes watch it together.

I hear from men how much they're attracted to beautiful women, and I have started seeing porn as a way of dealing with these sexual impulses with out physically hurting their partner. As for my ex- he is not the cheating type and did love me quite dearly. But perhaps this biases my opinion of it.