She's cheating on me - please, I need an advice!

[TheColonel]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

It's on your mind; it concerns her; talk to her.

Hell, stop being reactive, man. If you love her, tell her. And tell her first, so that she has that in her mind when you ask her what's going on.

Pretending you live in a Billy Joel song isn't gonna work here.

Real life just doesn't work that way, compadre.

Do you realize you're asking this man to put his last ounce of pride on the line to somebody who has demonstrated - through explicit action - that she doesn't give a damn about him or his pride?

[Michael Chui]

If you'd like to take this to another thread, I'm game for a discussion, Wulfen; but I'll reply here in case this is where it stops.

Originally Posted by Wulfen

You seem to have a good grasp on pyschology and relationships, yet here you give the OP a (IMO) very very misguided advice on how to handle his crisis, and make what seem sinde personal attacks on persons that give advice that opposes yours.

Can you clarify us your thoughs a bit?

Heh. I didn't expect that to get noticed so quickly. So first, no, that wasn't a personal attack: it was a point that the PUA mentality isn't a universally correct worldview, because it assumes that everyone in the world is heterosexual. I actually did go and talk to a gay friend after I made that post and he told me that the techniques were essentially the same, which I can definitely buy. But the point is that there is nothing essentially masculine about the PUA's perspective, and there is nothing intrinsically feminine about the person the PUA attempts to pick up. I think that's missed by people, especially male heterosexuals.

The OP hasn't actually given us enough information for any of us to actually suggest a "correct" way to handle his crisis. I believe this is actually because he doesn't have that information himself. In order to get this information, you have to communicate. You yourself are just as aware as I am that your advice isn't going to help him: he's not PUA material, and he's not going to be anytime fast. Dump and run isn't going to help him: he'll merely become serial until he loses all attractiveness completely. What good is that?

It would be smarter, if you ask me, to actually talk to her, because he has a chance to hear, from her mouth, what she thinks of him, why she thinks her boss is more attractive, and so on. If he doesn't understand it, I wouldn't be surprised if he came back here and asked, at which point you could start explaining How Things Work. If he understands, then he's quite bright. And if he becomes a puppy dog, well, nothing really changes, eh? And he'd also probably come back here. Hearing it directly from her solidifies the point, because it's far harder not to believe it.

No one has any idea what's going on anywhere around this. The only way to fix that is for people to start talking to one another. A dismissal just leaves him stranded and wondering whether he could have done anything.

Originally Posted by TheColonel

Do you realize you're asking this man to put his last ounce of pride on the line to somebody who has demonstrated - through explicit action - that she doesn't give a damn about him or his pride?

Think about it. What is the objective in this situation? Is his objective the same objective you'd have? I think that's clearly not true. He needs her to make a conscious decision between himself and her boss. Granted, we can be pretty sure what will happen, but is his pride really so important? His objective isn't to survive this or to rebound quickly; he needs to know what his possibilities actually are. He needs to learn.

Would it be better to be ignorant, but proud--or capable of handling things better from the start next time, having been humbled once before?

[TheColonel]

"His objective isn't to survive this or to rebound quickly;"

So his objective isn't to survive this?

WTF

[Wulfen]

Originally Posted by Michael Chui

Heh. I didn't expect that to get noticed so quickly. So first, no, that wasn't a personal attack: it was a point that the PUA mentality isn't a universally correct worldview, because it assumes that everyone in the world is heterosexual. I actually did go and talk to a gay friend after I made that post and he told me that the techniques were essentially the same, which I can definitely buy. But the point is that there is nothing essentially masculine about the PUA's perspective, and there is nothing intrinsically feminine about the person the PUA attempts to pick up. I think that's missed by people, especially male heterosexuals.

Very true. In every seduction, there's a seducer and a "seducee". True for gay relationships. True for a salesman and a buyer. This is a very good point.

The OP hasn't actually given us enough information for any of us to actually suggest a "correct" way to handle his crisis. I believe this is actually because he doesn't have that information himself. In order to get this information, you have to communicate. You yourself are just as aware as I am that your advice isn't going to help him: he's not PUA material, and he's not going to be anytime fast. Dump and run isn't going to help him: he'll merely become serial until he loses all attractiveness completely. What good is that?

It would be smarter, if you ask me, to actually talk to her, because he has a chance to hear, from her mouth, what she thinks of him, why she thinks her boss is more attractive, and so on. If he doesn't understand it, I wouldn't be surprised if he came back here and asked, at which point you could start explaining How Things Work. If he understands, then he's quite bright. And if he becomes a puppy dog, well, nothing really changes, eh? And he'd also probably come back here. Hearing it directly from her solidifies the point, because it's far harder not to believe it.

Fair enough. You have a point here. TheColonel's point of view, and mine as well, are of a "though love", a "wake up and smell the rats" attitude. Yours is more of a "communicate and learn what was wrong with your attitude".

The main problem I see with your approach is that if he asks the girl what did he do wrong, she's not gonna say someting in the lines of:

"You were not man enough and I had sex with someone who gave me more emotions that you"

No, instead she'll say something in the lines:

"It's not you, it's me"

To protect his feelings. Girls, as a general rule, prefer good feelings over hard, cold truth. That's why they say "I consider you as a friend" instead of "You don't have the qualities I seek in a sex partner".

But you have a point in that our harsh advice might be, well, too harsh I am thinking about a way to trasmit the same message in a more subtle way, so that more guys like the OP can "wake up", but I'm still pondering on this.

Think about it. What is the objective in this situation? Is his objective the same objective you'd have? I think that's clearly not true. He needs her to make a conscious decision between himself and her boss. Granted, we can be pretty sure what will happen, but is his pride really so important? His objective isn't to survive this or to rebound quickly; he needs to know what his possibilities actually are. He needs to learn.

Would it be better to be ignorant, but proud--or capable of handling things better from the start next time, having been humbled once before?

The emphasis on "He needs to learn" is mine. I think you hit the nail on the head there. In what we differ is in how to learn. I think what he needs to do is understand that he was not giving this girl what she needed, and he was being desperate, needy, jealous and had oneitis, all unattractive qualities.

I think we can explain him why he did all of this and why is it all wrong, from an objective perspective. But your approach might have value too.

You are a smart guy, Michael, you know how to push people's buttons and that's a very useful skill to have. The thing I see is that you prefer to somehow "guide" them slowly by pushing those buttons, so that they can see the light in the end, while I prefer a more blunt, crash-course approach, "take it like a man" discourse. I'll ponder about this, it might be worth to tackle a side approach sometimes if in the end the guy is going to learn more.

[Aiox]

real_username :

Man, I read this stuff and I want to shake you till your eyes rattle:

>>I want her. Only her in my life. I really know she's the one. I feel it. I know it. And if this ends, it's better for my life to end.... at the age of 25 this would be sad.... I can't be cool about that.

>>I just want her back in my life. But know for sure that she's "mine".

>>But I need her, want her.... oh you don't know her. She's the most wonderful human being......

You need to grow a spine and fast.

She's the most wonderful human being...... - Agh! Wake up man, she's banging your boss's brains out.

She is history. It is finished, accept it totally. You could never trust her again. Everytime she's late for something, you'll wonder. Everytime she makes an excuse, you'll wonder. That is no way to live. You'll eventually end up in a very dark and twisted place. Eject now.

Terminate this so-called relationship immediately, and as TheColonel admirably states, "Make it quick and surgical. Do not get into a discussion about anything."

Perfect advice. Dont act mad, dont act hurt, dont talk about it with her, dont let her direct anything in any way. Deep six it and move on. Avoid her like the plague, but not mad or hurt, just indifferent, like she's lint on your sweater.

I've had it happen to me years ago and yeah, it sucks when someone does stuff like this to you. But be a man about it.

And sorry to the non-confrontational minded folks around here, but I'd have to take issue with the boss (assuming he knows you guys were a couple).

I definately would find another job. Would be foolish to think you could be around these people after this.

[Wulfen]

And now, some thoughts for the original poster. You need to open your mind a little bit, and deprogram yourself from the lies that society has told you:

1 - Some people cheat

Some people cheat. Some guys cheat. Some girls cheat. Not all of them, but a fair bunch of them.

Some people have an internal moral compass that prevent them from cheating no matter what. Some guys have these morals, some girls have these morals. Many don't.

I've met girls with an astouding moral compass. My best friend's current girlfriend was attracted madly to him since the very beginning. But she totally refused to cheat on her boyfriend of that time. And my friend is a very cool guy, very phisically attractive and with good "game". He is as good as you can get a guy. Her boyfriend was much worse. But she didn't cheat.

Instead, she made my friend wait a little, she dumped her boyfriend and started going out with my friend. She didn't cheat at all, but the other guy lost the girl anyway.

So don't think that because you find a girl that have high morals, that you'll keep her no matter what.

Specifically, don't center your efforts in searching for some mirage of "loyal girl". You won't find it except by chance, because all girls will of course appear to be loyal (as guys do, of course). The only way to find if a girl is actually loyal is that you are so good of a catch that she could cheat on her bf with you, but she doesn't. But when you reach that level you won't care about loyalty anyway.

2 - People don't cheat if they are fulfilled

This is very true. If you fulfill all the emotional and physical needs of a girl, she has no reason to cheat. If that is the case, she'll cheat only if she's a freak.

But you need to learn how to handle women and how to properly fulfill them. And being desperate about not losing her is not exactly the best way to do this, if you get my drift.

You need to learn how to be a man: self-confident, being a challenge, leading the interaction, controlling your emotions, sexing her properly, and so on. At this moment you're very far away from that so you need to learn a lot.

3 - You shouldn't care anyway

This is the big A-HA!: you shouldn't put your self-esteem in the hands of other people, be it your girlfriend, your boss or the pope.

If you let her cheating bring you down, that means she has the power of stirring your emotions. You're emotionally dependant on her. And as you don't have control of your own emotions, you're not masculine enough, so you're less attractive to her eyes.

A masculine man, on his gf cheating, would first not lose controls of his emotions, and do one of these things:

a) dump her on the spot as TheColonel says and go find a better woman.

b) acknowledge to her that you know she's cheating, that you don't mind much, and that from that moment onwards you are both in an open relationship and that you will do the same, then immediately go sleep with several other women.

Of course to be able to successfully pull b), i.e. not bluffing, you need to know how to pickup girls, so most people here are recommending you a).

The option of:

c) forgiving her and act as if nothing happened

will only show her that you can let her get away with anything she wants. So first she'll lose attraction for you and later she'll do a bigger offense or dump you anyway, as TheColonel said.

--

Ok, I hope this post is more understandable and less harsh than the previous ones. I hope the original poster gets a couple ideas from here. Regards,

[ahimel]

real_username:

I think you're agonizing too much over making the "right" choice. What's true is, if you choose to forgive her and stay, the relationship will work... or it won't. If you choose to leave, or she leaves you, you'll find another relationship... or you won't. Life will go on. So I would try making the decision based on what you want instead of what you "should" do, like there's an examiner sitting just out of sight, waiting to mark down your decision with a red pen.

There is nothing, fundamentally, that you can do to "make" her love you, make her stay with you, and make her stop cheating on you. Those decisions are out of your control; you have to accept that, for the moment and possibly forever, your girlfriend is someone who cheats on you.

Given that information, what do you want to do? What decision will maximize your happiness? If you choose to stay, then you've made your decision. You've decided that the girl is worth it, and you don't get to whine about her cheating. If you choose to leave, then you've made your decision. You've decided that your pride is worth it, and you don't get to whine about the difficulties. Either way, once you've made the decision deep down, you can look her in the eye and know that it's really you telling her what you're doing, not fear of the moment or mindless bravado.

No one can make that decision but you. I don't think that staying is necessarily weak and spineless. It takes far more strength to love someone despite their faults than it does to walk away. But the reason it takes strength is that their faults will hurt you -- and this fault will hurt you more than most. You have to know and accept that. If you can take on that pain for another's happiness, then kudos to you. But if you take on that pain simply out of fear (fear of losing her, fear that you're not good enough for a relationship, fear that you can't find someone else, fear that kicking her out will be too hard) then I'll have to go with the macho braggarts and say that you're a coward and a doormat.

Good luck either way. And, despite my harsh comments above, PM me if you want to whine.

[real_username]

Hi again boys and girls,

I've been in really hard couple of days :-(. Turns out it's not what I supposed it was. I probably "exagerated" the situation in my head. There's never been a message "I love you" in her phone. Others like "kisses", etc were there. And she explained to me that she had always found him attractive (as I mentioned in my first post) but has always kept her "feelings" for him strict... never allowed herself to anything more than a conversation. Or at least tells me so, and she's always been honest with me - even when I haven't liked it. Turns out that he is allowing himself such behaviour only in text messages.... has never done something like that in their conversations live.
She's a wonderful girl. And just when I thought it was going to be OK... and we were settled, something happened. Or many things happened. I kept being sad yesterday, although we talked alot, discussed me, and she told me she loved me and will always love me....First, suddenly at lunch she started crying and told me she couldn't continue that thing to me. It's because her family is poor and she's very proud to accept and help from outside (including me). And she started a second work two-three months ago. And started thinking about her education too - she wants to study jazz singing, or something close. And told me before that, at this stage of her life, a relationship is so hard for her to maintain. After all the problems (her family has lots of debts), and intentions (studying, changing her life for better) she told me that she couldn't afford herself to pay the attention I deserved. And that she'd try to do it... but I have to be patient. And I agreed.
That was a couple of months ago.
Yesterday when she started crying, she told me that probably it's better not to continue to ruin my life..... and kept crying all day long. We talked a lot. I've always tried to be supportive at anything she chose to do. Now I'm uncertain what will happen. We haven't decided to put an end to out relationship. But she didn't put much hope in me after out talk. I want her in my life. That's what I want. I want her to accept me and help her in anything


Don't know what to do. Haven't eaten almost anything in the last couple of days. Even my thinking is so messed. Probably even the post above is messy.

p.s. Again yesterday with three of the salaries from her new job she could save some money to pay some of the debts. And when she payed them it turned out that she didn't have to - there have been more urgent and threatening payments. The payment she made wasn't important at all. And this is a whole lot of money in the country I live in (about 400$) and such quantity isn't easy to save with our standard of living.

p.p.s And a couple of days ago there's been a flood in their apartment. From a fault in the washing machine. Her mother came back yesterday and she's almost crazy now - the flood ruined important documents, important memories.... And her mother haven't stopped blaming her for these (payment + flood) since yesterday.
My girlfriend is now at her home, crying almost all the time, not wanting to see me and blaming herself for all the problems, that happened, for ruining her mothers life and mine too...

Any advice would be welcomed! I really don't know what to do from now on. All I want, again, is her. In my life. I think I can trust her enough! And be the MAN for her. As I'm sure she's THE ONE for me!
Help!

[TheColonel]

R_U,

I don't think you honestly want my advice.

Good luck to you.

[real_username]

Originally Posted by TheColonel

R_U,

I don't think you honestly want my advice.

Good luck to you.

I honestly seek advice. I really want myself to put things in order. Of course with her in this order. Please, I know I probably sound unstable, etc, but I need advice.

[msd]

Originally Posted by TheColonel

R_U,

I don't think you honestly want my advice.

Good luck to you.

Ditto that. R_U, I wish I could help you but I won't be able to give you any advice you want to hear. I really hope things work out for you

[TheColonel]

Alright, then.

A few posts back, Wulfen says that girls will often say:

"It's not you, it's me"

To protect his feelings. Girls, as a general rule, prefer good feelings over hard, cold truth. That's why they say "I consider you as a friend"

You just quoted your girlfriend as saying:

she told me that probably it's better not to continue to ruin my life.

And a bunch of other stuff that amounts to the same thing. Don't you get it? She's trying to slide away gently, compadre.

If you stand up, take a deep breath, and be a man about it, you might actually gain her respect.

Just say "I'm sorry this isn't working out. I want to help you, but I've had enough. Maybe we can be friends."

And that's it. Walk out, for God's sake. She will be caught off guard, and she'll see a side of you that she didn't know existed. She will now see you in a new light - strong, confident...decisive.

You won't do this though. I'd bet money on it.

Funny thing is, you're just hanging around right now waiting to see what happens. Hoping. Crying. Whining.

If you don't take charge of this situation, the situation will take charge of you.

That's all I've got to say to you.

[Cron]

Hi Colonel. I don't think RU is refusing your advice, I think he is refusing to accept the reality of the situation.

RU, unless people are pissed off, very few human beings like saying things that might be hurtful to others. Instead they will phrase things in a non-hurtful, but less true way. It isn't about you, it just makes them feel better. I think that just happened to you.

I think, ss predicted by others in this thread. that your GF got tired of you and broke up with you.

If you want to avoid this kind of misery again in the future go by what you see, not just what people tell you......especially with sex,dating, and romance.

It is over and I think you are better off......if you heed that lesson.

You should look for a new job, limit your exposure to her, accept that that you will temporarily not feel happy, and that you should keep busy.

I can't emphasize that last point enough. That and finding someone new ( when you are happy again ) is the best way to get over a break up.

[belugagirl]

R_U,

If--and it's a big IF--she actually meant everything she said about how she can't invest the time and she's ruining your life and all that . . . clearly she is not in the proper frame of mind for any decent relationship. She is (currently at least) messed up and needs to get right with herself before she is relationship material. You need to end the romantic relationship.

If you wish to be there for her (as a friend) while she works things out for herself, that is dicey. It may be a constant enticement to you to fantasize about getting back together with her romantically--which may very well NOT happen. If she is feeling as needy as you are, a platonic relationship may not remain platonic, and then you are right back in the toxic place you are now. I don't recommend "staying friends." It's dangerous. But it _could_ work, I suppose, though it's rare. If you can't bring yourself to separate from her entirely, then it's better than your relationship staying as it is.

You are also, from my perspective, not in the proper state of mind for anything resembling a healthy relationship. No, we don't know her. And we don't really know you. But the kinds of things you're saying--it's been pointed out to you already on this thread--indicate a VERY unhealthy attitude toward this relationship. I can respect you writing your heart to us. I, too, have been confronted with the fact that I cannot have the person I so painfully wanted once (or twice . . . or more). Many, many of us know the feeling. But the thing is, you have to recognize that it's a FEELING. In order for you to get your mind and heart healthy again, you have to realize at least in your mind that what you _feel_ is just that: what you feel. But because of your extremes of emotion here, you cannot trust your feelings to indicate what IS or what WILL BE. In your state, you cannot see the truth of the situation, which is: this relationship is _not_ a quality one, even if the people in the relationship have some very desirable qualities.

You've sought our advice. We're giving it. If you respect our judgment, and you know that you cannot think clearly right now, trust us: this relationship--as it is--must end for you to be happy again. What happens later--whether you find someone else, whether you both grow SEPARATELY and find each other again when you are READY for a quality (i.e. honest and trusting and stable) relationship, or whatever--you cannot know and you will torture yourself trying to predict or plan. You must . . . let go of THIS relationship, work on yourselves, and be content not to know or control what will happen in the future.

Good luck. May you find the strength you don't know you have.

[boris]

Originally Posted by real_username

And told me before that, at this stage of her life, a relationship is so hard for her to maintain. After all the problems (her family has lots of debts), and intentions (studying, changing her life for better) she told me that she couldn't afford herself to pay the attention I deserved.

Man, that's BS. No one is that unselfish. What she means is she does not want to be with you anymore, just sweetened.

This could be caused by guilt - if she actually cheated on you (her explanations does not seem very convincing to me).

Se is trying to play the victim, so she does not look like the villain.

Just a thought: She likes your boss a lot, he likes her too (the 'kisses' in the text messages). Is it that hard to actually believe she cheated on you?

[Jaben]

Warning adult content (I'd rate it R)
Homebase - Movie About How PUA Handle Being Dumped - Google Video

[Lychee]

R_U, you need a break. This has taken a toll on you mentally and emotionally and continuing this relationship (which is already on some shaky ground) will not help you. You must step back and evaluate what just happened and what will happen now.

I still can't ignore this:

Getting "kisses" in a text message is not a good sign. Did you see what she sent? Did she tell her boss not to do it anymore? If she did, either through phone or in person, do you think he would continue to persist? He is not the only one allowing himself such behavior. She let this happen.

Now she suddenly pulls up this excuse about problems that are going on in her life? Problems that were present months ago? She is using this as an excuse to break up with you.

It's about respect, R_U. Someone who loves you will respect you. Break up with this girl and find someone who will appreciate your love.

[yacapo]

I know this is the last thing you wanna hear, but my opinion is that you should just forget her. Confront her about the messages and forget the relationship. You cannot make someone want to be with you. If she likes your boss, you won't be able to change that.

Be a man about it. What I mean by that is that you should have a mature discussion with her about this. Tell her you just want to know the truth and if that's who she wants to be with, then that's fine, but you just don't want to be lied to.

That's what I would do, anyway.

[wolfgang]

Wanting advice from an Internet forum? Please find someone real to talk to. There are lots of opinions on your situation that may not actually be fitting your case. I'm afraid for you that people responding to your problem as if they are experts in relationships and know your situation throughouly and although are wishing to help may actually be boosting their egos at your exspense.

I know you have writen what you can but how many responders are telling you something you can actually use or will actually use? They are telling you what they think they would do in your shoes. YOU are in your shoes, not any of us. Are you really going to decide to do something based on responses here? You need help finding out how you want to handle this not being told how to handle it, don't you think?

Some say dump her right away (actually lots say that) in the name of growing a spine - but if you go do what this post says to do you are having another version of spinlessness - being lead by a bunch of strangers on the Internet. There's something ironic about advice that says "be a man" but also "I'm going to tell you what to do". Of coarse I could just be coping out since I don't want to be responsible if you take my advice and it is bad for you. Although I do agree you need to keep mindfull of not throwing away your power - as we all do and what you are going through is some sort of loss of feeling empowered. Not that you can control her but you can control your responses and choose and feel empowered instead of being lead around by opinions here or your intoxicated and tramatized state.

I know you are hurting and so is she and maybe this thread is helpful just to have another "somebody" to spill your guts to - so that's good and encourage that you do if you have no other real people that can listen. And all the "advice" can be viewed as possible choices. I know it's hard to think clearly where you are but you also need to talk to real people that know you and can listen and ask you things in an exchange. It's good to hear you are talking with her.

Well, that's what I think after reading this thread.

[Polonius Funk]

Originally Posted by real_username

And be the MAN for her.

Just be sure that she's not walking all over you or taking advantage of you.

And also, even if you break up with her, YOUR LIFE WILL GO ON. You are a seperate entity. You may feel sad, you may cry...you may look back on it 5 years from now and realize that the relationship was bad.

I'm reading a lot from you about how you are dedicated to meeting her needs...but is she meeting yours? I don't see much in your messages about how she is dedicated to you. "Love" is more than selflessly dedicating yourself to somebody else. "Love" is when they return it with just as much dedication. You may love her, but I'm not so sure she's as dedicated to you. She's not dedicated enough to NOT flirt with another man, that's for sure.

I'm sure that you're a good, selfless person. Unfortunately some people seek good, selfless people to be something safe to fall back on. She may not be *conscious* of taking advantage of you.

But look at yourself in the mirror and say "I will continue to have a life even without her." See how it feels. If your initial reaction is emotional turmoil, then you're too wrapped up in her and not thinking of yourself as a seperate person.

[TheColonel]

Originally Posted by wolfgang

Wanting advice from an Internet forum? Please find someone real to talk to. There are lots of opinions on your situation that may not actually be fitting your case. I'm afraid for you that people responding to your problem as if they are experts in relationships and know your situation throughouly and although are wishing to help may actually be boosting their egos at your exspense.

I know you have writen what you can but how many responders are telling you something you can actually use or will actually use? They are telling you what they think they would do in your shoes. YOU are in your shoes, not any of us. Are you really going to decide to do something based on responses here? You need help finding out how you want to handle this not being told how to handle it, don't you think?

Some say dump her right away (actually lots say that) in the name of growing a spine - but if you go do what this post says to do you are having another version of spinlessness - being lead by a bunch of strangers on the Internet. There's something ironic about advice that says "be a man" but also "I'm going to tell you what to do". Of coarse I could just be coping out since I don't want to be responsible if you take my advice and it is bad for you. Although I do agree you need to keep mindfull of not throwing away your power - as we all do and what you are going through is some sort of loss of feeling empowered. Not that you can control her but you can control your responses and choose and feel empowered instead of being lead around by opinions here or your intoxicated and tramatized state.

I know you are hurting and so is she and maybe this thread is helpful just to have another "somebody" to spill your guts to - so that's good and encourage that you do if you have no other real people that can listen. And all the "advice" can be viewed as possible choices. I know it's hard to think clearly where you are but you also need to talk to real people that know you and can listen and ask you things in an exchange. It's good to hear you are talking with her.

Well, that's what I think after reading this thread.

1st of all Wolfgang, even if he finds somebody "real" to talk to, will that person ever know all the facts? I've gotten plenty of crappy advice from "real" people my whole life. And I've gotten good advice from "imaginary" people on the internet.

2nd, he asked.

3rd, the details may be different, but I think RU's problem is an ancient one. Anyone who's ever been dumped, cheated on, or treated badly can relate - and might have some real insight.

This is an example of 'learning from the mistakes of others.' And we all know what's going to happen, if it hasn't already. He will choose to learn the lesson himself, just like I did, and just like almost everyone else does.

Telling someone to 'go find somebody else to talk to' isn't any better than giving them an opinion based on the facts they present. You're trusting that this poor guy will go find a qualified counselor. That's a pretty risky assumption, IMO.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by yacapo

Be a man about it. What I mean by that is that you should have a mature discussion with her about this. Tell her you just want to know the truth and if that's who she wants to be with, then that's fine, but you just don't want to be lied to.

Good advice here. Just be aware that even if you could have a mature discussion with her, she might not be ready, be able, or want to...despite what she says outwardly.

[wolfgang]

Originally Posted by TheColonel

1st of all Wolfgang, even if he finds somebody "real" to talk to, will that person ever know all the facts? I've gotten plenty of crappy advice from "real" people my whole life. And I've gotten good advice from "imaginary" people on the internet.

Yes RU could get bad advice from anywhere. There’s no way to gaurentee a “in real life” person would know all the facts either – but there’s a better chance. Maybe Internet sources are OK just as well. I just find it easier to talk to a friend that's known me for a while as opposed to posters. When you talk to someone in person there's a chance to exchange, I think, that's all I'm saying. In person (or even phone calls) you can also get a better sense for how someone is coping, how bad the stress is and provide empathy. You know, talk to your mother kind of thing. I'm not saying RU needs to stop posting - I even encourage this internet forum in this respect. It just seems like RU needs lots of help.

2nd, he asked.

RU - I know you asked for help here or advice. It's my advice to make sure you talk to people in person that may know you better so as to have a support system that might be more reliable and long term. Not that some posters aren't reliable here but it's my hope that friends in real life can offer even more support. In a way to get all the help you can find. But also this forum has no contract to actually provide support to you other than our desire to help. Friends on the other hand are, by definition, there for you. And if you go the route of paying a counselor that's a contract that provides reliable support.

3rd, the details may be different, but I think RU's problem is an ancient one. Anyone who's ever been dumped, cheated on, or treated badly can relate - and might have some real insight.

This is an example of 'learning from the mistakes of others.' And we all know what's going to happen, if it hasn't already. He will choose to learn the lesson himself, just like I did, and just like almost everyone else does.

It did seem like posters where feeling frustrated that RU was not following advice given – why would that be? For RU to benefit from this thread we have to help him discover his lesson and make sure he gets it from where he's coming from. That’s a tall order even though other people can say – “been there, done that and this is what I did”. Hopefully the advice is touching him and helping – which I’m pretty sure there is a benefit for RU. Someday I may post a personal issue and expect as much.

Telling someone to 'go find somebody else to talk to' isn't any better than giving them an opinion based on the facts they present. You're trusting that this poor guy will go find a qualified counselor. That's a pretty risky assumption, IMO.

I’ll still say it is better to tell someone to find someone to talk to. That’s a huge suggestion that can help a lot. Talking to people is a great way to work out something. Sure forums are a version of talking to someone but what I’ll suggest, RU, is you find people in addition to using this thread. I think a counselor could help even more. I’m thinking the issues are larger than an Internet thread can effectively help with (although this thread is an immense help, I’m sure). I really advise trying to find lots more help. It’s not risky it’s smart to find more help.

RU – However it can be hard to find great counselors and you have to pay them. Sometimes work places have employee assistance programs that are free for some initial counselor visits (if only you are lucky to have access to such a program). I know we all are wanting to help (my assumption) by responding here and that alone provides comfort – that there are other’s listening to you. I would say the same thing to help evaluate “in real life” qualified counselors - make sure they aren't trying to help you while being mostly motivated by being impressed about themselves instead of actually helping you learn something about what you are going through.

Any advice you hear is up to you to see if it fits and if you can apply it. It’s often a bad move to make big changes when you are emotional and advice ideas here say to make a big change – break up. Maybe that’s right for you – what do you think? Have you really considered that solution? I know it’s yucky to think you need to move on, but how yucky is it to stay? Do you want to share her with others? I’m also noticing she is pushing you away at the same time as having her life go through nutty things regardless of any relationship issues and it’s too bad she doesn’t have a solid feeling that a relationship is a source for her to help deal. What’s up with that? You don’t have to decide anything right now, I’d say, but it would be good to consider all the options and feel them out for yourself. Sometimes the other person will choose something and then your options also change. Hang in there.

[Radical]

From your first post it seems quite simple to me. She liked your boss, but thought him unavailable and so she settled for you (no offense). Then when your boss became available, she ditched you like a bad smell.

You need to realise that there is more to life than one lousy cheating girl. You just have to move on like everyone else. Life is too short to waste it wallowing, and you are certainly not the first person to have had their dreams dashed.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Wulfen

"I had sex with someone who gave me more emotions that you"

Wulfen, is that a PUA thing? I love it! I also like "wake up and smell the rats."

[Flame]

IMHO:

Re: your relationship--

My impression from your last long post is that this girl is drama-prone, and you've played the hero trying to help her out. Even if it she isn't physically cheating yet, which is unlikely, she's emotionally attached to the other guy. You deserve better.

There is a reason you're not getting the answers/solutions you want on this thread. You aren't ready to face the realities of your situation, which is **completely understandable** given your affection for this women and your emotional turmoil. You probably feel that no one has been in your exact situation. That is true, but it doesn't negate the great advice above from people who have been in very similar situations. Please try to understand that. Since these people here don't know you or your girl, this advice is more objective than friends who don't want to hurt your feelings.

Re: your overall happiness and well-being--

If you do want to keep this girl, or attract someone "better," you need to work on yourself-- your confidence, SELF-RESPECT, and outlook on life in general. You say your life isn't worth living w/o her in your life. While that might stroke her ego (and make it easier to take advantage of you), it won't make a woman respect you or want to be with you for the long term. You would benefit from seeing an objective 3rd party in person (eg. a counselor or life coach) to start taking steps toward making your life seem worthwhile, independent of another person. If you don't believe in therapists or life coaches, check out the dozens of PD threads on this forum for tips on getting the most out of your life and relationships. If you can realize your potential and take pride in yourself, no matter what obstacles you face in the future, **you won't ever feel as hopeless as you do now**.

You will never achieve LASTING HAPPINESS & A FULFILLING RELATIONSHIP if you continue to let your worth be defined by someone else.

I wish you the best.

No matter what happens with this girl, I hope you will revisit this thread when "the storm has cleared" b/c you may get more out of this thread when your emotions aren't overwhelming you.

[Shaden]

Just get rid of her.

From the sounds of things you're giving this girl a lot of your time and energy. Stop for a moment and ask yourself what YOU would do if you gave yourself that time and energy. Would you use it to do something you've been putting of for a while? Read a book? Go for a quiet walk? Quit and get your dream job? Find a nicer boss ? Whatever it may be, just take some time to write down your ideas and go out and do it.

I think the problem is that you're being either used or played. This is something some nasty girls can accomplish sometimes - find a nice compassionate, pleasant young man and turn his own nature against him. In the case of being used I would break the relationship off but remain friends with her as she probably needs what emotional support you can give her. BUT from the sounds of things she is playing with you. In this case, break it off and never regret it.

You can be as compassionate and caring as you like but never, ever under any circumstances allow yourself to be used or played because you will be drained my friend both emotionally and psychologically. You need to take time out for yourself.

Another possibility is that you're addicted to the drama of this relationship. If that's the case then fine. But always remember that a dramatic relationship is not a soulful one and a soulful one in the long term is the best kind as you will both benefit and be benefited by the opposite party.

I wish you the best of luck. I was in this similar kind of sticky situation barely a month ago. I too was as emotionally involved as you are. I made the choice to turn my back on her and I have never looked back. For about a week I went through some serious emotional and physical relocation. I would just walk around my college sighing all day and ignoring my friends. But it passed and because I went through it I am a stronger more able person today. This relationship has pushed you beyond your limits, but when you relocate yourself after it - and I promise you that you will - you will find yourself with a completely new perspective on life, as well as so much more strength

'What doesn't kill me only makes me stronger'

I wish you the best of luck

Wolfgang, TheColonel - you both have points but the fact that RU has a social life outside these forums would suggest that he is recieving advice both from this forum and his friends therefore making your arguments fairly redundant.

[StevenA]

Originally Posted by Cron

That is the take home lesson.

Women want strength. That doesn't necessarily mean muscles, money, or power. Women can see a multitude of qualities as strength. Once she sees that she doesn't have to respect you consciously or not, you will look weak to her, you will cease to be attractive to her and she will leave.

Wow. This just helped me out immensely. I'm 19 and have been in a relationship for almost 3 years and my girlfriend has been becoming more and more condescending and unsupportive towards me as I became more and more bottled up with resentment. I read your post this morning and it just kind of clicked in my head an hour or so ago and I immediately called her to lay out some boundaries and told my girlfriend that her reactions have been unacceptable. She cried and said sorry and I almost relented, but I just repeated myself again, told her she could call me later if she wanted to discuss anything else, and hung up.

I feel great. I feel strong. Thanks, Cron! (Rhyme was not intended )

[borisg]

Sorry to hear about your heartbreak. But be thankful. Thankful that you found out now that she is not the person for you. It is obvious she has been having an affair with your boss. You need to be strong enough to admit this to yourself. Forget about confronting her, or your boss. The only person involved in this problem is YOU!! It is your problem that you continued to see a person that admited to YOU that she was very attracted to YOUR boss. When I was going through heartbreak there were several articles by S. Pavlina that helped me out...mostly I needed to put things in perspective...I did.. I think you need to start seeing your pain from different perspectives.. there is nothing for you to fix or make right here. come on now man...stop wasting time like I did.... see now what took me months to see.... accept it now, forgive in time, forget never, and learn from this...because it is only a lesson..

[real_username]

The thing is done. We're broke! I'm dead inside. I want to die!

Cannot write more. Will try in a couple of days - if I'm still alive.

Thanks again!