An old gay man hit on me at starbucks today...

[Boreas]

An old gay man hit on me at starbucks today. We fell in to conversation and started to talk about family, I asked him if he had a wife and he said he was gay. That is fine with me, it is not like I am going to start back or run away. I worked on my homework and asked him for help. He was kind, helpful, congenial, the works. Then later he asked what time I had to be home, and asked me if I would go back with him to his hotel room! I declined. Then he stayed on a while, which again, I didn't really care about.

Looking back on it, it was horrible, but I don't know why... I think what has hit me most is how I act around women. I am usually the nice guy, very kind and all that...but I think the ones I give more attention to will get this feeling that I might ask them to go out later or something...(though I have never really asked a girl out like that) but that is how I felt with this man. All his kindness and attention, I saw the hotel room invitation coming, and that is just so crushing to me.

Honestly, I just think he was lonely and that he had a good heart...so I don't know why I feel so disgusted by the experience. At the time I felt ok about it, but now I feel like it was horrible... I guess I just need to digest the experience more...I dunno. I think what is hurting me most is now I feel like I can't be kind to people (especially women), because that means I have some subconscious desire to get something back from them, which disapoints me, since I want to be unconditionally good, random acts of kindness and all that, but when I think about it, I am not that way with women my age. :/

[SomeRandomGuy]

What about the exchange do you think is bothering you the most? That you were hit on by a gay man? That were propositioned so blatantly? That you feel like he was only being nice to you because he wanted something? It might be helpful to consider how you would have felt if it were a hot woman instead of this man. Or if he had asked you out to dinner instead of asking you to his hotel room.

[MINDLESS15]

Looking back on it, it was horrible, but I don't know why...

Maybe because it was an akward moment. But stop looking back. It was just an experience with 'that' person. The whole thing that you're not gay just probably enhanced that 'horrible' feeling in you, even though you say you were fine w/that part. Maybe his ulterior motives bugged you more than you thought..obliviously.

I say don't put too much thought into it. Don't feel like you can't be kind to people, you con't being you and so be it if you happen to be nicer to someone that you find yourself attracted to that's the whole point...and not everyone is going to think you always have 'ulterior motives' if you're being nice. They'll probably first off appreciate the kindness, like you did in this case and that's all unless they're attracted to you too then...well..

I am someone you could say will have people come be nice to me for their 'ulterior motives' and I'll tell you honestly it is very easy to pick up from the gut feeling what is going on almost immediately. I could tell when someone is being 'just nice'/kind or if indeed they are looking for something else from me. My bf is extremely good looking and gay guys LOVE him..no joke!..he is always getting hit on and he has had similiar situations like yours but we just end up laughing about it. We have an inside joke, when we're out if we should be separated for some reason(other parts of the store..)he'll come to me and say, I was naked back there!. Meaning someone was being nice in a pick up sorta manor.

I just need to digest the experience more...

You probably do. But don't think on it too hard.

ps: thought at first that I read your post title as:
An old gay man hit me at starbucks today...NOW that would have been an experience to digest.

[Dannyboy1]

I would never approach a woman and immediately ask her to my hotel room. It's rude. It is gross. He obviously does this all the time. He pretty much just wanted to get off. It's not like he wanted to get to know you. He took advantage of your "niceness" and made you feel like a piece of meat. Of course you were grossed out! Don't get down on yourself about being manipulated. You were just being trusting and tried to make the best of it even after he made a disgusting proposition.

[Boreas]

Thanks Mindless, it was good to hear your opinion, and how you can "feel out" when people have ulterior motives, because I would agree with that, and I feel better because I never have ulterior motives...

SomeRandomGuy, in response to your question I think what bothers me most is that I was propositioned so blatantly. And by that I mean it seemed to me that this guy was very sad, lonely, and good hearted, and in some ways I wanted to help, but I guess I didn't know how. Certainly conceding to his advances would have been the worst thing...though maybe girls fall into a kind of pity-trap a lot?... Also, I have also been seduced by a beautiful girl (also Turkish coincidentally!) who was just after sex and I turned her down too, but more because it just seemed sickeningly manipulative on her part, and not because she was lonely or kind hearted... I think she was the kind of girl that had sex in night club bathrooms, but I digress...

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

I would never approach a woman and immediately ask her to my hotel room. It's rude. It is gross. He obviously does this all the time. He pretty much just wanted to get off. It's not like he wanted to get to know you. He took advantage of your "niceness" and made you feel like a piece of meat. Of course you were grossed out! Don't get down on yourself about being manipulated. You were just being trusting and tried to make the best of it even after he made a disgusting proposition.

Thanks Dannyboy, I think this more or less echoes my thoughts, and it did seem like he does this kind of thing a lot. It did take him 20-30 minutes to ask me to the room, just for the record, and while I am setting the record straight, since people might wonder, he was Turkish, and maybe in his 70s, and I am 26, so it is not like I am a teenager or anything. I am in Frankfurt to learn to speak german, and that is where all this went down. Even though it is a big city, I think I am still going to try be kind, though I have got more straight faced over time, and much harsher with ignoring people who hand out fliers or ask me to sign up for a magazine. In a way this guy hitting on me also all seems like big city nuisances that makes people in cities somewhat less friendly than people in smaller towns.

Also, thanks for all the responses, it is helping to talk this out...

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Boreas

SomeRandomGuy, in response to your question I think what bothers me most is that I was propositioned so blatantly. And by that I mean it seemed to me that this guy was very sad, lonely, and good hearted, and in some ways I wanted to help, but I guess I didn't know how. Certainly conceding to his advances would have been the worst thing...though maybe girls fall into a kind of pity-trap a lot?... Also, I have also been seduced by a beautiful girl (also Turkish coincidentally!) who was just after sex and I turned her down too, but more because it just seemed sickeningly manipulative on her part, and not because she was lonely or kind hearted... I think she was the kind of girl that had sex in night club bathrooms, but I digress...

Based on this, I don't see any reason for you to feel like you need to change the way you act around people. As long as you are just being nice to people and not blatantly propositioning them it doesn't seem that you should make them uncomfortable.

[Boreas]

Word to that! Thanks! I don't think I can stop being kind, but I think the point here might be to get enough sophistication to sniff out times people only want to use you and know how to cut things off in a good manner, that maintains ones own dignity, maybe I did that, or maybe I could have done that sooner? Yeah..

[MINDLESS15]

Glad to be able to pitch in my two cents.

BTW...I have had that gross feeling linger a tad after been approached and blatantly propositioned in such ways..it definitely does make you think..'ya, that was not cool! Or like that legally blonde movie quote "As if!!"

But again it's something you brush off. And again try not to assume or steotype there after due to those kind of experiences or behavior. And I do find myself being more cautious I guess..yes, always trusting that gut feeling.. I applaud and appreciate guys like you and Dannyboy because it could be a great looking guy and he could pull out all the nice cards and if he blatantly propostitioned like that I would still be greatly offended. And like you mention about that 'turkish girl'...it doesn't matter gay, straight, male or female that kind of forwardness is just rude.

Go on with your kindness...

[sbdiane]

As a woman, I just can't but think to myself, welcome to our world.

[missing]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

I would never approach a woman and immediately ask her to my hotel room. It's rude. It is gross. He obviously does this all the time. He pretty much just wanted to get off. It's not like he wanted to get to know you. He took advantage of your "niceness" and made you feel like a piece of meat. Of course you were grossed out! Don't get down on yourself about being manipulated. You were just being trusting and tried to make the best of it even after he made a disgusting proposition.

I wouldn't be so harsh. Yea, he wanted to get off. He wasn't hiding it either, even though he didn't come out and say straight what he wanted. It was rather obvious. I mean the guy came to him and said "nice shoes, wanna f*ck" would that make the OP feel any better? I mean how did the older guy hurt the OP? He "forced" him to have a nice conversation? Yea maybe it occurred with less than honorable intentions but so what. This is just how some of the gay community works; it's a lot more straight forward than what men deal with when approaching women. Guys scope out someone with their "gaydar" and move in. Sometimes the gaydar is wrong. It happens. It's happened to me before; a simple "no thanks I'm just not into that" generally gets them off your back. Human's should be allowed to initiate sexual encounters with other humans, even if they are total strangers. If the person makes clear they are not interested, and the initiation continues, then it starts to become an issue. Like the female poster above stated, women deal with this all the time. They manage; so can a guy.

[metamorph]

Originally Posted by missing

I wouldn't be so harsh. Yea, he wanted to get off. He wasn't hiding it either, even though he didn't come out and say straight what he wanted. It was rather obvious. I mean the guy came to him and said "nice shoes, wanna f*ck" would that make the OP feel any better? I mean how did the older guy hurt the OP? He "forced" him to have a nice conversation? Yea maybe it occurred with less than honorable intentions but so what. This is just how some of the gay community works; it's a lot more straight forward than what men deal with when approaching women. Guys scope out someone with their "gaydar" and move in. Sometimes the gaydar is wrong. It happens. It's happened to me before; a simple "no thanks I'm just not into that" generally gets them off your back. Human's should be allowed to initiate sexual encounters with other humans, even if they are total strangers. If the person makes clear they are not interested, and the initiation continues, then it starts to become an issue. Like the female poster above stated, women deal with this all the time. They manage; so can a guy.

I am with you on that one.

The OP is an adult and not a minor as I initially asumed. I have been hit on by guys, and, yes, it feels weird first. But to be honest, "having no problem with someone being gay" means in my eyes to allow them to express their sexuality as long as this is lawful. If an attractive woman hadhit on the OP in this way, he may have been flattered. And, I agree with sbdiane, this is what women go through all the time. And if you have had the experience you can, as an adult, unmistakingly communicate that you are not interested. This applies to women and men. I also think that you can still be nice, if you maintain a fine line of assertive separation. One gay colleague I spoke to about in the past, said "simply do not look them into the eyes for too long and you'll be fine". And this is true for men and for women.
As a guideline, just treat them like you would be treated by a woman who likes you but is not interested sexually in you.And then be a little bit more obvious, because we guys are a little bit more obtuse than women, aren't we...

[metamorph]

Boreas, the last post was really only my opinion on being hit on by gays. I do empathise with your reaction and can relate to it. I only hope you will not let this experience draw you away from people. THe very best.

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by sbdiane

As a woman, I just can't but think to myself, welcome to our world.

Thank you for saying it first! Yes, this is exactly the kind of situation that
women find themselves in all the time and never think to mention it.

[Lauxa]

I don't think it was what he did that really bugged you but something about your reaction to what he did. I get the feeling that you are replaying this over and over in your mind, and you are just not liking some reaction you made or something you did or said.

What I would do is to go back over the experience and see what it is that was lacking in your reaction. In other words, what quality did you NOT express but you wish you had?

What did you lack in this experience?
- comfort?
- smoothness?
- niceness?
- confidence?
- directness?

Once you identify what it is that you were missing, try to re-play the experience in your mind but with yourself having the desired quality. Remember, your brain does not distinguish between a real experience and an imagined one. So in that respect you really can fix the experience just by imagining it differently, and then you can attract more situations in which you will exhibit that same quality and reinforce its presence in your life.

Good luck!

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Lauxa

I don't think it was what he did that really bugged you but something about your reaction to what he did. I get the feeling that you are replaying this over and over in your mind, and you are just not liking some reaction you made or something you did or said.

He's upset he didn't stand up for himself when the guy turned out to be a pig.

[Liveformx64]

This is pretty simple.

Would grandpa have sat and had a chat with Boreas if he had not wanted sex? Now you could argue otherwise, and there is no way to prove it, but I would argue that granpa was out on the prowl for a little loving, and if he wasn't looking for a little nookie would have never invested in a conversation.

Now look, there is little doubt that someone who engages in such self destructive behavior is hurting on the inside, but Boreas, this wasn't your battle to fight. You were manipulated, and the persons intentions weren't transparent.

Boreas, look at it this way. The great thing about all of this is you could learn from this guy. I am talking mainly about the disingenuous actions he played out, and this time you happened to be on the receiving end. As you commented earlier, you have used this "super nice" guy tactic to try and convince women to like you. Although your motives may not be what you believe to be bad, is that still not manipulation?

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

Boreas, look at it this way. The great thing about all of this is you could learn from this guy. I am talking mainly about the disingenuous actions he played out, and this time you happened to be on the receiving end. As you commented earlier, you have used this "super nice" guy tactic to try and convince women to like you. Although your motives may not be what you believe to be bad, is that still not manipulation?

He doesn't walk up to a woman, convince her he's a nice guy, then twenty minutes later ask her to let him give it to her. You really can't compare the two.

[Liveformx64]

On a Certain level I definitely agree.

Depending on how you feel about the act of sex, I think Grandpa may have been more sinister in his intentions, But doesn't both stories boil down to trying to convince someone you are something that you are not for self gain?

The point I am trying to make is, being anyone but yourself is counterproductive in trying to find a suitable partner. I have spent thousands of hours trying to make relationships work that if I was being true to myself and who I am, would have never even started let alone drug out for a year of trying to "make" things work.

Maybe the moral of the story is, if you have to hide your eventual intentions. Maybe you shouldn't be doing them.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Liveformx64

On a Certain level I definitely agree.

Depending on how you feel about the act of sex, I think Grandpa may have been more sinister in his intentions, But doesn't both stories boil down to trying to convince someone you are something that you are not for self gain?
Maybe the moral of the story is, if you have to hide your eventual intentions. Maybe you shouldn't be doing them.

You can still be yourself and flirt with someone. No one would ever get together if they didn't "try" to get together. It's true you should always be yourself, but even in nature animals do things to show off to a potential mate.

[SomeRandomGuy]

It could be argued that what this man did is much more honest than what most people do while trying to pick someone up. The man did put on a show of friendliness, but we don't know if that was just to try to get what he wanted or if he is a genuinely nice and friendly guy. At least he was up front about what he wanted, in a relatively short period of time. I think that all too often people pretend to be interested in someone for more than sex, when sex is really all they want. In the end, one or both of the people involved end up disappointed at having invested so much time just to find out they aren't on the same page. In this situation, the OP invested little time on this guy before find out his true motivation and moving on. Sometimes I wonder if the up front and honest approach might not be better than all the games people play in the dating world.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

It could be argued that what this man did is much more honest than what most people do while trying to pick someone up. The man did put on a show of friendliness, but we don't know if that was just to try to get what he wanted or if he is a genuinely nice and friendly guy. At least he was up front about what he wanted, in a relatively short period of time. I think that all too often people pretend to be interested in someone for more than sex, when sex is really all they want. In the end, one or both of the people involved end up disappointed at having invested so much time just to find out they aren't on the same page. In this situation, the OP invested little time on this guy before find out his true motivation and moving on. Sometimes I wonder if the up front and honest approach might not be better than all the games people play in the dating world.

You can argue anything, that doesn't make it right. Why not just have him go up to every person he finds attractive and say "I want to **** you." Maybe in some imaginary world in your mind this would work, but not in the real world. What he did was invasive, abrupt, and skeevy.

That said, you don't have to be affected by it. Step back and realize this is an energy you don't need in your life, remove yourself from the situation, and focus on the now.

[metamorph]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

Why not just have him go up to every person he finds attractive and say "I want to **** you." Maybe in some imaginary world in your mind this would work, but not in the real world. What he did was invasive, abrupt, and skeevy.

Well, you could argue that everybody does exactly this. While few say it verbally, both men and women communicate this with their eyes, smile, body language or whenever. If you can read the non-verbal signs, you realize that really "sex in everywhere"...

I guess, we do not really know what was said verbally or non-verbally between the OP and Grand-Pa, but he did volunteer sexual information about himself. He could simply have said he was single. So, if a complete stranger small talks with me and volunteers he is gay, I would make it clear verbally and non-verbally that I am not interested witout being rude.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by metamorph

He could simply have said he was single. So, if a complete stranger small talks with me and volunteers he is gay, I would make it clear verbally and non-verbally that I am not interested witout being rude.

That would have been acceptable.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

You can argue anything, that doesn't make it right. Why not just have him go up to every person he finds attractive and say "I want to **** you." Maybe in some imaginary world in your mind this would work, but not in the real world. What he did was invasive, abrupt, and skeevy.

That said, you don't have to be affected by it. Step back and realize this is an energy you don't need in your life, remove yourself from the situation, and focus on the now.

I didn't say it should be done that way, but I do think it is a much more honest approach. We have been socially conditioned to think that such a direct approach isn't acceptable, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't work under different societal expectations. If someone is interested in me only for sex I'd much rather they tell me that than pretend to be interested in something more (friendship, romantic relationship, etc). Obviously that isn't what most people would prefer, so the direct approach the guy employed was not well received.

[metamorph]

I think the question if this was sexual harrassment or not is really subjective. I go for not making myself a victim, and if people manage to offend me (within the law), this is really my problem to work with.

If I allow women to flirt and escalate with me, I should at least not complain if gay guys try to do the same with me.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by Boreas

... I have some subconscious desire to get something back from them...

That's the part that jumped out at me, Boreas. You've got a belief about yourself that's surfacing now, and that's great! Because when you see it clearly, it's power over you is dissipated.

You have a desire to get something out of people you're kind to. What is it exactly you're trying to *get*? I suspect that it's something like validation that you're good enough or worthy or attractive. When you are kind to people, do you notice you don't always exactly feel free? That desire to *get* ties a knot in your hose.

Interestingly, when someone has an unconscious "I'm not good enough" type of self-belief, there are people who will zero in on that and exploit it, like this guy at the coffee shop. I'm not saying he's a bad guy or victimizer, necessarily; it's just that complementary self-beliefs tend to attract each other. He was also trying to *get* something from you -- and it wasn't just sex. Same with the women that you'll attract when you're run by a limiting self-belief -- you'll tend to attract women with whom you can be co-reactivators.

I suspect that the horribleness and disgust you feel about this incident is the reactivation of your old pain.

Imagine being free in the world to be boldly kind and to gratefully be present to and accepting of kindness, with no fear, no anxiety, no suspicion or dark feeling in the pit of your stomach. How would that be for you?

[Boreas]

Originally Posted by Angela

That's the part that jumped out at me, Boreas. You've got a belief about yourself that's surfacing now, and that's great! Because when you see it clearly, it's power over you is dissipated.

You have a desire to get something out of people you're kind to. What is it exactly you're trying to *get*? I suspect that it's something like validation that you're good enough or worthy or attractive. When you are kind to people, do you notice you don't always exactly feel free? That desire to *get* ties a knot in your hose.

Interestingly, when someone has an unconscious "I'm not good enough" type of self-belief, there are people who will zero in on that and exploit it, like this guy at the coffee shop. I'm not saying he's a bad guy or victimizer, necessarily; it's just that complementary self-beliefs tend to attract each other. He was also trying to *get* something from you -- and it wasn't just sex. Same with the women that you'll attract when you're run by a limiting self-belief -- you'll tend to attract women with whom you can be co-reactivators.

I suspect that the horribleness and disgust you feel about this incident is the reactivation of your old pain.

Imagine being free in the world to be boldly kind and to gratefully be present to and accepting of kindness, with no fear, no anxiety, no suspicion or dark feeling in the pit of your stomach. How would that be for you?

Angela,
That is a beautiful point and in many ways I think it is right, I think in the end what hurt me most was not having this guys approval, and I also think that you are right in that I tend to be super nice not so much for sex, but for approval and possible reciprocation of ideas and appreciation... and yet it seems like being super nice is exactly the wrong thing to do for this result... what is the alternative? to just be myself? That is certainly more of a challenge than being super nice, and might also lead to the same result, but I guess I will feel better about it....

[akky]

haha thats actually kind of funny. you've got to relax about that. stop thinking about it and its repercussions so much.
3 years ago my best friend told me he had a thing for me. It was really weird and at first i tried to be really good about it and everything. After a while though i turned into a total jackass and stopped talking to him and when i did nothing good ever came out of my mouth or actions. Im in my last year of school now so i had to keep meeting him throughout. Basically what im saying is, is that this turned out to be one of the best learning experiences for me. While your situation is completely different from mine, there's still something to learn from it. you cant force yourself into having those thoughts of kindness. BUt you can work on it and i'm sure that somehow this will help you do that.
There's nothing wrong with the way your feeling about yourself right now. It;s completely normal.
Hope this helped in some way.

[missing]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

You can argue anything, that doesn't make it right. Why not just have him go up to every person he finds attractive and say "I want to **** you." Maybe in some imaginary world in your mind this would work, but not in the real world. What he did was invasive, abrupt, and skeevy.

that's just your subjective analysis, which is a good thing for anyone to have, but it doesn't necessarily correlate to what's right or wrong in the real world™. If somebody finds a human asking another human to have sex with them straight out "skeevy" (or whatever negative term you want), perhaps that says more about the person who feels that way, rather than the act itself. That's ok though, because the negative feelings are an opportunity for learning. I've gone through the same thing re: feeling weird when approached by gay guys. I was bothered they would make me feel weird and found it rude. But when I looked deeper I realized the negative feelings were stemming from my ego, and had nothing to do with the gay people approaching me.

Personally I think the gay guy was simply following Steve's advice:

The Most Direct Solution to Any Problem