Writing a note; requesting advice.

[Syriven]

Okay. Here's the situation (we are all older than 18, just so you know)...

There's a girl (I'll call her Jill) who I've met a couple of times in the past through a couple of friends. In the past, I've been in a serious relationship, but that ended about two months ago. We hung out again recently, again with the same friends, and this time I think I got some fairly strong (positive) signals from her. She knew I wasn't in a relationship anymore, but she also knew I was leaving for college in a little more than two weeks. Right now I have 14 days left until I leave.

During that time we hung out, she mentioned to us (me and the two friends) that she was thinking of "just getting drunk and getting it over with". She was talking about losing her virginity. The two friends didn't think very highly of that, but didn't say so to her. I mentioned that I didn't think it was a very good idea to her, but we dropped it quickly. I've been thinking about it, and I want to say two different things to her: 1. No! Wait until it's special. 2. No! Wait until I have a day off, and forget the alcohol.

I want to say that I feel it's a lost cause to tell her to wait until it's special, but I know part of the reason I say that is because I just want her to myself.

I'm writing a note to her. I'm going to send it to her in cell phone texts, because I only have her phone number. And I'd rather not say it in person or over the phone, because I don't want to pressure her to answer, and I want her to be able to stop listening if she wants to without having to tell me to stop.

So I'm posting the note as it is so far, because I think that the people here have very good and very different opinions, and anything I hear here will probably help me out. Notes to you guys will be in [brackets].

I'm sending you this all in a text so you don't have to reply if you don't want to (yet or at all), and so I can express myself exactly as I want. I've been thinking about how you said you kind of wanted to get drunk and lose your virginity to someone... would you really want to do that drunk, and with someone you don't even know? A part of me wants to say, wait until it's special. But to be honest, the point of this message is this: I was wondering if maybe you could forget the drinking part and do that with me. I like you, and I think you're *really* hot. And I think we could have fun.

Before I continue, I want you to know that you don't have to answer now; if your answer is no, I don't need an explanation; And if you just don't respond to this that's fine, and I'll just assume it's a no. And finally, if it is a no, I promise I won't ask again and it won't be weird if we hang out again before I leave. If you ignore the next few texts out of disgust, i'd completely understand. Now, having said that...

I think we could have a lot of fun together--whether it's just one night, more than that, or less than that. This is going to sound cocky, but I think I'd probably be better than the average guy for what you were talking about. I'm not talking in terms of skill (I'd have a biased opinion on that); I'm talking more about the fact that I'm going to actually care whether you are having a good time. If you wanted to stop, I'd stop. If you said yes then decided you had to change your mind, I'd be fine with that, and not be bitter. Primarily we'd have fun, and only if we were having fun would we have sex. It would be such a shame for *anyone's* first time to be treated like a chore or a goal.

I'm really worried you are horrified at how blunt I'm being. But I think it's worth the risk. Worst case scenario is we don't talk for the remainder of the time I'm here, I leave for college, and soon these texts won't matter to either of us anymore. And hey, in the end, you still know I thought you were attractive. Best case scenario: we have some fun. You mentioned you were playful, and so am I. We don't have to plan to have sex; we could just plan to hang out in a private place, and whatever happens, happens. We could rent some movies, if you wanted. It would be a huge lie if I said I wouldn't be hoping for sex, but even if I leave with nothing more than a massage, I'd be happy. [We gave each other massages (with shirts off) that time we hung out. I'm sure she liked it and I know I did]

I guess that's all I have to say, now that the size of this message is enough for an email. Again--if you say no (either by saying no or never mentioning this), that's fine. I don't need an explanation unless you want to give one. And I promise it won't be awkward if we hang out, whatever your answer is. And if your answer is yes--I don't think you'll regret it.

So, that's that. I'm not sure what kind of responses to expect, but the more the merrier.

[TonyToneTone]

DO NOT DO THIS!

I REPEAT, DO NOT DO THIS!

Do this instead, take her out to a cool club, have a drink with her and see where it leads. Don't give her this whole talk, it's not necessary. In fact, don't even mention anything about her losing her virginity. Just go out with her, build up attraction, kiss her at some point throughout the night and take her back to your place. That's it.

If you can, just invite her straight to your place to hang out and have some drinks and see where that leads.

[Syriven]

Okay, I hear you loud and clear.

Here are the responses I immediately think:

I've never been to a club before. Partly I feel it's "not my style" but I also know that it's just a bit outside of my comfort zone.

If I had more time, I wouldn't be writing a note spilling my guts. I'd be waiting for us to hang out again with friends, and then bring up the possibility of us hanging out, just me and her.

I'm not rejecting your suggestion, just offering my arguments against it. And don't worry, I'm not going to send a letter like that without thinking hard about it beforehand.

[pharmboy]

Originally Posted by TonyToneTone

DO NOT DO THIS!

I REPEAT, DO NOT DO THIS!

Do this instead, take her out to a cool club, have a drink with her and see where it leads. Don't give her this whole talk, it's not necessary. In fact, don't even mention anything about her losing her virginity. Just go out with her, build up attraction, kiss her at some point throughout the night and take her back to your place. That's it.

If you can, just invite her straight to your place to hang out and have some drinks.

I second this piece of advice. I believe that you would scare the poor girl off by all of the writing. Now is not the time to be intellectual; she certainly wasn't going to be about losing her virginity. I am also wondering if she really meant what she said or was kidding with her girlfriends.

[Syriven]

Originally Posted by pharmboy

[...]I am also wondering if she really meant what she said or was kidding with her girlfriends.

One of us (I don't remember who) asked if she was serious, and she said yes.

[TonyToneTone]

Originally Posted by Syriven

Okay, I hear you loud and clear.

Here are the responses I immediately think:

I've never been to a club before. Partly I feel it's "not my style" but I also know that it's just a bit outside of my comfort zone.

If I had more time, I wouldn't be writing a note spilling my guts. I'd be waiting for us to hang out again with friends, and then bring up the possibility of us hanging out, just me and her.

I'm not rejecting your suggestion, just offering my arguments against it. And don't worry, I'm not going to send a letter like that without thinking hard about it beforehand.

Hey Syriven,

I was just going by my own experience. Of course do whatever feels right for you.

You have her number. Send her a text, "What's up for tonight?" or "I want to see you tonight". Instead of writing her that story, send a text, and set something up with her.

In this situation I really believe that the lack of time is a factor that is on your side. You have the reason to be ballsy, gutsy, and move at a faster then normal pace.

[Syriven]

Originally Posted by TonyToneTone

Hey Syriven,

I was just going by my own experience. Of course do whatever feels right for you.

You have her number. Send her a text, "What's up for tonight?" or "I want to see you tonight". Instead of writing her that story, send a text, and set something up with her.

In this situation I really believe that the lack of time is a factor that is on your side. You have the reason to be ballsy, gutsy, and move at a faster then normal pace.

I'm sitting here, trying to think of why I would send the huge text as opposed to a simple "Are you busy tonight?" and honestly I can't think of anything off of the top of my head... I still cling to the idea of sending the huge one for some reason, though.

[TonyToneTone]

Originally Posted by Syriven

I'm sitting here, trying to think of why I would send the huge text as opposed to a simple "Are you busy tonight?" and honestly I can't think of anything off of the top of my head... I still cling to the idea of sending the huge one for some reason, though.

It's because it will wrap up for you this whole situation in just one go. You'll have let out all the emotion you have regarding this situation. For her though it will be one GIANT ass text and may or may not make sense.

[funchy]

First off: IMO the message won't get you what you want. It's too forward and assumes an awful lot, and if she's as innocent as I'm imagining, it will put her off.

I'm not sure I understand your motives. You want to get laid and perhaps bragging rights that you got the 'cherry' of this hot girl? I could be wrong but it seems like you're not as interested in her as a girlfriend, yes?

Jill is an insecure, scared young lady. She values her virginity enough to hold onto it this long. But the fear of how scary the first time will be is wearing on her, so she's tempted to "just get it over with" and sleep with whoever. Clearly it means alot to her.

You asked our opinions. I'm a woman, and I can sympathize with what Jill is going through. I've got to be honest. As a woman I'm not sure I like your text or your intentions. Jill is waiting for the right moment and for the right guy to come along; someone who respects her and who won't make a scary moment even scarier. Forgive me for saying this, but it sounds like you're scheming a way to get her to put out for your own reasons and may not have her best interests at heart. Therefore you are the WRONG person to be asking her for it, and it's not justifiable with saying it's "helping her". (in my opinion at least-- others are welcome to disagree)

Your prowess in bed is not what a scared virgin girl needs. It won't mean anything to her, and your forwardness between the sheets may scare her further. You may also find youself quite disappointed in the experience, since it sounds like you are very experienced and she quite obviously is not.

This is a 'good' girl who sincerely sounds like she's waiting for a meaningful experience. If you want a good time, my advice is to hook up with someone else (i.e. someone who's been around the block). If you want a chance at a relationship, go call her and ask her out to dinner or drinks or something, and patiently see where it goes. It sounds like she's a wonderful young lady, and you might be missing out on a change at a great relationship by just rushing into things.

[JimOfferman]

I wrote this letter and sent it...

Well, mine wasn't exactly this letter, but it had the same kind of utterly misguided type of content.

Boy did I feel dumb after posting it!

My advice: print it out, roll it up and then use it to knock some sense into yourself!

I know you mean well, as did I, but trust me when I say: this is not the way.

Here's what I would send now:

"Hey you!

Wanna hang out some time?

x,
Jim."

That's all you need to say!

[Syriven]

Originally Posted by funchy

First off: IMO the message won't get you what you want. It's too forward and assumes an awful lot, and if she's as innocent as I'm imagining, it will put her off.

I'm not sure I understand your motives. You want to get laid and perhaps bragging rights that you got the 'cherry' of this hot girl? I could be wrong but it seems like you're not as interested in her as a girlfriend, yes?

Jill is an insecure, scared young lady. She values her virginity enough to hold onto it this long. But the fear of how scary the first time will be is wearing on her, so she's tempted to "just get it over with" and sleep with whoever. Clearly it means alot to her.

You asked our opinions. I'm a woman, and I can sympathize with what Jill is going through. I've got to be honest. As a woman I'm not sure I like your text or your intentions. Jill is waiting for the right moment and for the right guy to come along; someone who respects her and who won't make a scary moment even scarier. Forgive me for saying this, but it sounds like you're scheming a way to get her to put out for your own reasons and may not have her best interests at heart. Therefore you are the WRONG person to be asking her for it, and it's not justifiable with saying it's "helping her". (in my opinion at least-- others are welcome to disagree)

Your prowess in bed is not what a scared virgin girl needs. It won't mean anything to her, and your forwardness between the sheets may scare her further. You may also find youself quite disappointed in the experience, since it sounds like you are very experienced and she quite obviously is not.

This is a 'good' girl who sincerely sounds like she's waiting for a meaningful experience. If you want a good time, my advice is to hook up with someone else (i.e. someone who's been around the block). If you want a chance at a relationship, go call her and ask her out to dinner or drinks or something, and patiently see where it goes. It sounds like she's a wonderful young lady, and you might be missing out on a change at a great relationship by just rushing into things.

Bragging rights is not part of my motivation. Of course I want to get laid, but I swear a large part of my motivation is for her first time to be with someone that at least cares that she's having a good time. If she gets drunk and has sex with some random guy, there's a chance he just won't give a **** whether she's okay with what's happening or not. I don't want that to happen.

When I mentioned that I might be "better than the average guy" what I meant is that I would make sure she was having a good time. Not because I'm good in bed, but because I care about her as a person. If I do send that note (which is seeming less and less likely) I'll make that more clear.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I say go for it. Assuming that you aren't planning on asking her out then you have nothing to lose in this situation. If she says no, doesn't respond, thinks you're a creep, etc then you end up in basically the same situation as you are in now.

I do believe that your intentions are what you say. I agree that she will be much better off losing her virginity to you than some random guy she met at a bar while drunk. On the other hand, she would be worse off losing her virginity to you than waiting for someone special.

I think that your approach is much more up front and honest than asking her out on a date or to hang out with the thought of trying to get her in bed. Since it sounds like you have no intention of having a relationship with her I would worry that trying to date her to get her in bed would only lead her on, with the possibility of her developing feelings for you. Your approach reduces that risk, which could be good for both of you.

If she was really serious about wanting to "just get it over with", then you may be offering her something that she will consider helpful. I agree that it is better for her first time to be with someone who cares about making the first time enjoyable. There are guys who would jump at the chance to take her virginity, but would not be doing so with her enjoyment in mind. For many people the experience of their first time having sex has a lasting impact on how they view sex throughout their life. So if you can make it enjoyable for her, that is definitely a good thing.

Having said that, it seems like a long shot that she will take you up on your offer. As long as you are aware of that, and are prepared to deal with the results of your offer (whether she takes you up on it, turns you down, freaks out on you, etc) then I don't see a problem with you giving it a shot.

Whatever you decide, update us on how it works out.

[mattpd]

Haha never write that note.

Just because you were thinking of writing a note, and actually wrote one out in preparation, I'd hazard a guess that you have no chance to sleep with her anyway, even if you want to. A guy who would consider writing a note, is not usually going to be the sexiest man or most socially popular in town if you know what I mean, its a beginner mistake.

You may know or meet a girl you think is 'easy' but actually getting her into bed is a completely different thing.

The only option is to let her know how you feel through the way you touch her. Verbalize as little as you can about how you feel about her or what you want to do, just let me figure it out by the way you touch her.

You really don't have much of a chance here either way I'm kind of thinking, sorry.

[Syriven]

Originally Posted by mattpd

Haha never write that note.

Just because you were thinking of writing a note, and actually wrote one out in preparation, I'd hazard a guess that you have no chance to sleep with her anyway, even if you want to. A guy who would consider writing a note, is not usually going to be the sexiest man or most socially popular in town if you know what I mean, its a beginner mistake.

You may know or meet a girl you think is 'easy' but actually getting her into bed is a completely different thing.

The only option is to let her know how you feel through the way you touch her. Verbalize as little as you can about how you feel about her or what you want to do, just let me figure it out by the way you touch her.

You really don't have much of a chance here either way I'm kind of thinking, sorry.

That seemed kind of... unnecessary. I appreciate the advice, but could have done without the assumptions. I'm pretty sure the assumptions about me are wrong, in any case.

[Silent Lucidity]

The note does clarify your intentions, in that you let her know you don't want anything beyond the mutually beneficial sexual experience. However that might turn her off, especially if she was hoping for more than sex. Hence all the guys' advice to just be light-hearted about the whole thing, hang out, and see where it goes.

If she is already very attracted to you, and does just want sex, sending a note won't kill it, in terms of wordy-ness. She most likely would appreciate that you took the time to express yourself, but then, there are other equally effective ways to express yourself as Syrvin suggested.

Think of how this experience may impact her as well as yourself. You seem like a good guy, and a considerate person Best of luck whatever you decide.

[Syriven]

Thanks to all of you for your advice. I've decided to wait a little bit longer to send that note, if I ever do. Me and a group of friends (not the friends she knows) hung out tonight, and I invited Jill along. She said she couldn't, but unprompted she told me her days off and said if anything was going on on those days, she'd be up for it. So I'm going to try to set something up for Friday, and just see how that goes.

Thanks again guys. This really helped me think through this, and convinced me that sending that note is a risk that seems unnecessary. Maybe later, when I'm more sure of her attraction to me, it will be okay for that note. But not now, for sure.

[mattpd]

Originally Posted by Syriven

Thanks to all of you for your advice. I've decided to wait a little bit longer to send that note, if I ever do. Me and a group of friends (not the friends she knows) hung out tonight, and I invited Jill along. She said she couldn't, but unprompted she told me her days off and said if anything was going on on those days, she'd be up for it. So I'm going to try to set something up for Friday, and just see how that goes.

Thanks again guys. This really helped me think through this, and convinced me that sending that note is a risk that seems unnecessary. Maybe later, when I'm more sure of her attraction to me, it will be okay for that note. But not now, for sure.

Yeah, its sounds like you are young.

Which is awesome.

You don't have decades of wrong beliefs, bad experiences and messed up ideas to unwire and reprogram.

Its a major advantage, get it right now, and you are sorted forever.

[TonyToneTone]

Originally Posted by Syriven

Thanks to all of you for your advice. I've decided to wait a little bit longer to send that note, if I ever do. Me and a group of friends (not the friends she knows) hung out tonight, and I invited Jill along. She said she couldn't, but unprompted she told me her days off and said if anything was going on on those days, she'd be up for it. So I'm going to try to set something up for Friday, and just see how that goes.

Thanks again guys. This really helped me think through this, and convinced me that sending that note is a risk that seems unnecessary. Maybe later, when I'm more sure of her attraction to me, it will be okay for that note. But not now, for sure.

Sounds like she is interested. Good luck! and PS - Don't write that note FOR ANY REASON

[Syriven]

Originally Posted by TonyToneTone

Sounds like she is interested. Good luck! and PS - Don't write that note FOR ANY REASON

The chances of me writing that note right now are slim, but there's still a very small chance I'll decide it's the best way to do it, depending on how Friday goes.

And I forgot to say--any thoughts or advice in the meantime are still appreciated.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by mattpd

Haha never write that note.

Just because you were thinking of writing a note, and actually wrote one out in preparation, I'd hazard a guess that you have no chance to sleep with her anyway, even if you want to. A guy who would consider writing a note, is not usually going to be the sexiest man or most socially popular in town if you know what I mean, its a beginner mistake.

You may know or meet a girl you think is 'easy' but actually getting her into bed is a completely different thing.

The only option is to let her know how you feel through the way you touch her. Verbalize as little as you can about how you feel about her or what you want to do, just let me figure it out by the way you touch her.

You really don't have much of a chance here either way I'm kind of thinking, sorry.

Yeah, and maybe what little chance he did have ...

You just helped to undermined his faith in himself and his chances with this girl etc etc ...

I wonder what motivates some of these PUA gurus, or whatever; are they here just to bolster their own egos? (by sustaining an US vs THEM dynamic .... we have it ... you don't).

[mattpd]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Yeah, and maybe what little chance he did have ...

You just helped to undermined his faith in himself and his chances with this girl etc etc ...

I wonder what motivates some of these PUA gurus, or whatever; are they here just to bolster their own egos? (by sustaining an US vs THEM dynamic .... we have it ... you don't).

In my experience, men tend to work well with being told they can't do it.

And women tend to work well with positive encourage and re-inforcement.

Forget where I read that, I think its true.

[Jamie]

I don't know Matt. I guess we're all different; but you may very well have something there. I guess it depends on the individual, how they respond to that kind of thing. For me, I can see myself responding either very well (i.e. f**k you, I'll show you), or very badly (i.e. you're right, I am crap).

I also didn't want to sound like I was knocking you, you (and plenty of others here) have given great advice to other guys.

I'll butt out now; apart from to say to the OP, I thought the note was a dumb idea too; kinda thing I would have considered in the past.

I figure men are more prone to rationalise and use logic, as reasons to do or not do stuff; but that note, could just freak a girl out, by making her think too much (putting her in her head).

[robc]

Originally Posted by TonyToneTone

Hey Syriven,

I was just going by my own experience. Of course do whatever feels right for you.

You have her number. Send her a text, "What's up for tonight?" or "I want to see you tonight". Instead of writing her that story, send a text, and set something up with her.

In this situation I really believe that the lack of time is a factor that is on your side. You have the reason to be ballsy, gutsy, and move at a faster then normal pace.

When you show these traits, women will find you more attractive - it shows you are confident, dominant, and she will probably warm up to you even quicker.

I think she's waiting to hear from you - you have nothing to lose, go for it.

[MINDLESS15]

DON'T SENT IT.
"we are all over 18...just so you know.."

Good thing you mentioned that because this kind of thing does seem very high schoolish.
But take it from some one that has gotten texts like that in the past from guys(&not that I am this dumb girl blurting out that I want to get drunk and have sex)but guys that thought it would be cool to reach me in some way w/ a semi-self indulged Shakesperian mini script(ok I'm insulting Shakespear here sorry)...it's def NOT A SMART IDEA for you to send this.

You mention that you are someone that would actually care for her 'having a good time'...hell you're talking about a girl who wants to get out, get drunk and lose her virginity to some stranger.. 'such class'... seems if she wants to be in a drunken stuper whilst...she's obviously not to concern on really 'having a good' time, she'll probably won't even remember it. So this text idea of yours it way over the sentiment.

If anything, do what Tony adviced. She seems like she'd be a club girl(talking like that with ideas like that)..and if she really is serious, it will just simply take some serious physical flirting and a kiss here and there and well...