I just don't understand what I'm doing wrong..

[jetpack]

On paper, it seems like I should have it all. In reality, I can't get past the rare first date and find it very difficult to meet or connect with men or women.

Where I'm at in life: I'm in my mid 30's, single, maybe 6 or 7 in looks, run a very successful internet business, live in a big old house and am active and healthy. Career wise, I make many times what people in my area make, and do it 4HWW style. I live in a small town, am generally well liked, but do have a few close friends (who always seem busy with their own life).

However, on the relationship front, I haven't had a gf in 5 years. I've dated a few girls over the years, but can't keep them no matter how hard I try. I also have no idea why they leave, as they stop returning calls after 1st or 2nd date.

It's even harder to find dates in the first place. People my age are generally married with kids by now, and younger girls consider me quite old. I'm also pretty bad at approaching new people. All in all, nothing I've tried works, and I'm completely at a loss why.

I admit that I generally don't show my wealth, partly because I really don't want a girl to like me just for my money... However, I have no problem spending money with the right girl.

So, the question is, with the right amount of time and money and attitude what would you do in my position?

[ns123]

Here is what I hear about you:
I have money. But I can't get a good woman, why?

Besides money, a home, all the material things, what about you would attract the woman of your dreams? What about your personality would make you desirable to the woman you are looking for?

Do you even know what she "looks" like? Describe the woman of your dream's personality. Maybe these women don't hang around because you are sending the signal they are not "it" and they leave?

I read a post from Erin where she sat down and wrote and prioritized the qualities that she wanted in a man. Like, her top 10. Maybe you should do the same - it may help. Once you do that, you should look at creating the conditions (within yourself) that will make you desirable to a person like that.

Based on your post, there doesn't seem to be any one reason. There's not enough information to tell.

[Call me Boges]

Man you need to get some SWAGGER going, aka MOJO!

You have everything BUT the attitude thats required to succeed with females.

I cant help you because I have no bearings on what you are like as a person. It could be anything. Maybe you have bad breath? Honestly its hard to say why you are failing.

Serious question : Are you good in bed?

For many women that is a make or break situation. You need to know how to sexually arouse and please a woman and keep her on her toes in your everyday life.

Also its about MARKETING. You are a product that you are trying to sell to these women. You need to find the niche. Like the above poster said. Figure out what type of girl you are looking for then try and frequent the places you believe this type of females hangs out at.

[TonyToneTone]

Guys, do you need help meeting women? I just started a thread about this.

You need to change your image of you in the relationships department. Do the imaging and affirmations portion that I subscribed. Right now you're very negative in this one area of your life when the reality is, you have everything it takes to be VERY successful.

By the way, being in your mid30s is not old at all. My friends who are in their early 40s get hit on then most anyone I know. It's all about how you look and carry yourself.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by jetpack

I can't get past the rare first date and find it very difficult to meet or connect with men or women.

Why do you reckon that is? What do you think you do that interferes with your ability to meet and connect with people? What happens?

[Tuumble]

Originally Posted by ns123

I read a post from Erin where she sat down and wrote and prioritized the qualities that she wanted in a man. Like, her top 10. Maybe you should do the same - it may help.

I'm not sure Jetpack wants a man like Erin so a top 100 might not do any good let alone a top 10.

Besides Steve is already taken.

[Pace]

Originally Posted by jetpack

I'm also pretty bad at approaching new people.

I used to be social phobic, but when I became more social, I found it much easier to meet new people and date.

So here's my suggestion. Stop worrying about dating, and instead focus on meeting new people. Men, women, whatever -- just practice making friends and enjoying people's company. Most successful romantic relationships start out as friends or friends of friends rather than meeting in some other way. Also, even more importantly, becoming a more social person makes you more attractive. It makes you easier to get to know, and that opens up many more opportunities for new relationships of all sorts -- romantic, friendships, even business.

I know it's hard to stop worrying about dating when that's the problem you're trying to solve, but in my experience it only works when you're not focused on it, because then you're perceived as desperate, which is a turnoff.

If instead you focus on genuinely enjoying people's company, people can get to know you without dating you, and that's a much more comfortable situation.

I hope this advice finds you well. (:

EDIT: Oops! I completely failed to respond to this:

Originally Posted by jetpack

In reality, I can't get past the rare first date and find it very difficult to meet or connect with men or women.

What difficulties do you have? What obstacles do you find when you try to meet people or connect with them?

[mattpd]

I train guys around the world with this exact problem all the time.

The main problem is that you are thinking about dating the wrong way.

You thinking about dating logically, like looking at yourself from a 'on paper" point of view, thinking about getting a girlfriend, not being able to hold onto a girl, kind of like dating is a process similar to getting a job, or getting a girlfriend has something to do with having an house, or the money you make, or your job or something.

Let me tell you, dating, and pickup, is not a logical process at all, its a primal, instinctual and emotional process that has little to do with those things. Those more logical things may help if you already get the emotional triggers stuff down, but really most of the guys I know who are totally amazing about women are actually pretty broke.

Your main issue reading your post is that you are not dominant enough. To be good with women you generally need the ability to approach, and touch women properly to have any chance. Often you need to be downright bossy and a fairly persistent to push through the layers of resistance women tend to have.

When I think about dating, and 'pickup', I think about it as a physical thing. Many guys when they visualize how to do it, or what dating or approaching women is like, they think they walk up and start talking, like dating is a conversational thing. Sure you need to do that too, but in my brain pickup is pretty much entirely a physical thing. Your success all comes down to how you touch her.

In fact, many successful guys get women who like them, but really if you miss windows of opportunity or you get attraction from girls but you fail to pull the trigger women will lose interest. The more socially popular the women the smaller the window of opportunity, and the quicker you need to respond.

When I started getting good at this, and am now at the stage where it is really easy for me, and I really get overwhelmed with the amount of girls who like me, it surprised me how fast this whole process occurs, and how less-formal it is. Guys seem to go way too slow generally, and think that its like a job interview or something, and they are just generally way too serious, and the thing they talk about like, pow.

Matt
Dating Tips for Men: EXPOSED

[jaamkie]

the thought 'why do they avoid me? why can't I keep a girl?' are probably getting in your way- if you're thinking it, you're probably suggesting it by quietly begging for affirmations and hints that she likes you. This is one of the quickest ways to drive off a woman. Somehow it subconsciously suggests that you don't consider yourself good enough for the girl, or that you're going to suffocate us, or something... much better to do the reverse- make us wonder a bit at first, be friendly and polite and flirtatious but not too serious; don't grope us but also don't be afraid to touch us when it feels right.

If you were coming off as 'just friends' they'd probably answer your calls and you just wouldn't get anywhere romantically; so I'd bet it is a matter of doing something that seems creepy/clingy/weird- too serious too quickly, or making her feel like you might want to buy her affection instead of deserve it. I'd suggest you do go look for female 'just friends', and practice treating them respectfully, as equals, and then ask for some dating advice once they get to know you.

[Trezker]

Originally Posted by jetpack

maybe 6 or 7 in looks

From the free chapter of Steves book. A 7 is just a 1 in disguise. If you don't rate yourself as a 10 you're not satisfied, you're just a 1.

You need to get comfortable with yourself, find inner peace.

[jetpack]

Here is what I hear about you:
I have money. But I can't get a good woman, why?

That's certainly what I'm trying to say at all. And, I've think I've said the opposite, that I try not to use money to buy affections and try not to flaunt it. I've worked on all the qualities that I think are important in a man. And, well, I've had these problems before I made any money, so I really don't blame it.

You have everything BUT the attitude thats required to succeed with females.

Yes, well, if it's only about that, then I certainly don't have it. While I personally don't think that's everything, I do need to work on it.

What do you think you do that interferes with your ability to meet and connect with people? What happens?

In the right settings, I think I can connect with people pretty well. Like talking with friend's friends at a party. Shifting gears and going into flirty or pursuit mode would be were I start to disconnect. I always seem to miss any deeper connection when talking with people.

instead focus on meeting new people. Men, women, whatever -- just practice making friends and enjoying people's company.

Well, I do try to meet more friends. However, becoming friends with girls I could be interested in seems a lot different. In the past, one of my best friends, a girl, I was interested in romantically. However, she only seems to date complete jerks, and I was always stuck as 'just a friend'. Either I was
never in a position to make that leap, or it's too big a leap for me.

you're probably suggesting it by quietly begging for affirmations and hints that she likes you. This is one of the quickest ways to drive off a woman

I'm sure that's one of my problems.

[Orange]

maby the whole dating model isnt right for you?
maby whats for you is being friends first then letting it develop into somthing else?

[Angela]

Originally Posted by jetpack

In the right settings, I think I can connect with people pretty well. Like talking with friend's friends at a party. Shifting gears and going into flirty or pursuit mode would be were I start to disconnect. I always seem to miss any deeper connection when talking with people.

No, what I was asking was: what do you think you DO that causes the disconnect. You mentioned it happens with men as well as women, so probably it's not just the flirty/pursuit mode in which it happens.

Your answer, above, is kind of the oblivious person's answer -- "well, this always seems to happen, I don't know why!" But you are not oblivious, even though you might assume that role at times. From a perspective of being 100% responsible for your life -- it is 100% you and 0% them -- what are you actually doing (or thinking, or creating in conversation) that generates disconnect?

[mattpd]

Reading stuff like this and going out on a Saturday night I really appreciate how totally awesome evolution is.

Now I'm on the right side of the evolution coin, I love it, when I was on the wrong side of it I hated it.

Evolution explains why less than 5% of males have the opportunity to replicate as often as they like, while 95% of males get maybe 5-10 real serious genuine chances their entire life with different women, more than likely they marry one or more of those, and have children, but ultimately often settle unhappy, or not near their full potential.

I just find it so easy to take women off guys like the original poster. Completely clueless about attraction, their techniques are just awful.

You get these guys that are totally confused by dating. They think they are a good catch, they think they are not too bad, but continually come up empty handed with dating, and when going out trying to meet women, simply because they have no idea at all about the 'real' game.

Evolution just weeds these guys genes out of existence.

I saw one of these guys tonight. He's worth 40 million dollars, and cannot pickup to save his life. Instantly I saw he was totally seeking approval by his behaviour, and this makes him totally unattractive to 99% of women, and he'd be the type of complain that he totally does not understand dating, or women.

Some common themes of guys who fail on the evolution scale:

- suffer anxiety in social situations
- too much in their head
- think too much
- think too much about themselves
- too internally focused rather than learning from their outside surroundings
- not dominant enough
- simply weak at touching women, and being bossy enough
- think about dating logically and analytically
- think about attraction from a superficial level not an "emotional" level
- less than 1% improvement in skills per month
- feels an entitlement with women, not a go out and get it attitude with women
- always operates at 80%, not 100%

I don't mean to be 'mean' to the original poster.

But it kind of reminds me of this time I met a bartender.

I went to a bar to see my friend who was the manager. He wasn't working, so I hung out there, and got on well with the bar tender. She was cool.

After she finished I went back to her house, and there were a big group of people there, her friends, and her flatmates, and their friends.

I noticed a guy who really liked the girl I met. He obviously was in the friends zone, you know, trying to be a nice guy, doing lots of stuff for her, while she must have dated "jerks" lol.

Anyway, as the night progressed people left the party. People kept leaving until it was just me, the bartender, and this guy in the friends zone. He must have realized the attraction between me and the girl, so he finally started trying to make a move, which she rejected.

He said "can I sleep on the couch like I always do?" and she said "no" lol, so he said "but that means I have to sleep in my car", and she said "okay", he was totally expecting her to say to sleep on the couch.

It was winter and it was freezing, and he got to sleep in his car, and I got to sleep in her bed. It must have been hell for him. It was at that moment I understood evolution, and dating.

You either go in hard and you take ****, or you get rejected, or you are soft, wimpy and get what you are given. You are either dominant and get what you want, or you play the nice card, or act 'confused' or think possessions will get you women.

You either sleep in the car after putting in 6 months of work, or you **** a girl in her bed after 2 hours.

You either complain about the system, or you make the system work for you.

I kind of love non-dominant males.

They kind of like pre-heat the oven before the real action takes place.

[Parthon]

Excuse me for being blunt, or not, but I see you as boring, shallow and rather ordinary. Your friend who likes jerks probably likes them because they are interesting.

What hobbies do you have besides work that are interesting. Do you go rock climbing, snorkling or anything like that. Have you wrote a book or played the piano? Are you into 17th century french literature?

Also, do you create an air of aliveness and exploration around you? Are you someone people would like to get to know better, or do they think they've gotten all of you in the first pass, even though they probably didn't?

I would not say work on being more interesting, but in looking at those things that you find interesting and work on putting more of them into your life. Everyone's got a secret list of things that they wish they could do that are exciting, use that as a basis.

[Call me Boges]

Originally Posted by mattpd

Reading stuff like this and going out on a Saturday night I really appreciate how totally awesome evolution is.

Now I'm on the right side of the evolution coin, I love it, when I was on the wrong side of it I hated it.

Evolution explains why less than 5% of males have the opportunity to replicate as often as they like, while 95% of males get maybe 5-10 real serious genuine chances their entire life with different women, more than likely they marry one or more of those, and have children, but ultimately often settle unhappy, or not near their full potential.

I just find it so easy to take women off guys like the original poster. Completely clueless about attraction, their techniques are just awful.

You get these guys that are totally confused by dating. They think they are a good catch, they think they are not too bad, but continually come up empty handed with dating, and when going out trying to meet women, simply because they have no idea at all about the 'real' game.

Evolution just weeds these guys genes out of existence.

I saw one of these guys tonight. He's worth 40 million dollars, and cannot pickup to save his life. Instantly I saw he was totally seeking approval by his behaviour, and this makes him totally unattractive to 99% of women, and he'd be the type of complain that he totally does not understand dating, or women.

Some common themes of guys who fail on the evolution scale:

- suffer anxiety in social situations
- too much in their head
- think too much
- think too much about themselves
- too internally focused rather than learning from their outside surroundings
- not dominant enough
- simply weak at touching women, and being bossy enough
- think about dating logically and analytically
- think about attraction from a superficial level not an "emotional" level
- less than 1% improvement in skills per month
- feels an entitlement with women, not a go out and get it attitude with women
- always operates at 80%, not 100%

I don't mean to be 'mean' to the original poster.

But it kind of reminds me of this time I met a bartender.

I went to a bar to see my friend who was the manager. He wasn't working, so I hung out there, and got on well with the bar tender. She was cool.

After she finished I went back to her house, and there were a big group of people there, her friends, and her flatmates, and their friends.

I noticed a guy who really liked the girl I met. He obviously was in the friends zone, you know, trying to be a nice guy, doing lots of stuff for her, while she must have dated "jerks" lol.

Anyway, as the night progressed people left the party. People kept leaving until it was just me, the bartender, and this guy in the friends zone. He must have realized the attraction between me and the girl, so he finally started trying to make a move, which she rejected.

He said "can I sleep on the couch like I always do?" and she said "no" lol, so he said "but that means I have to sleep in my car", and she said "okay", he was totally expecting her to say to sleep on the couch.

It was winter and it was freezing, and he got to sleep in his car, and I got to sleep in her bed. It must have been hell for him. It was at that moment I understood evolution, and dating.

You either go in hard and you take ****, or you get rejected, or you are soft, wimpy and get what you are given. You are either dominant and get what you want, or you play the nice card, or act 'confused' or think possessions will get you women.

You either sleep in the car after putting in 6 months of work, or you **** a girl in her bed after 2 hours.

You either complain about the system, or you make the system work for you.

I kind of love non-dominant males.

They kind of like pre-heat the oven before the real action takes place.

you are on the money bro

[jetpack]

Are there any non PuA trying to make a buck or LoA people here? I'd rather get some constructive advice than a virtual smackdown.

[Brutha]

I'd rather get some constructive advice than a virtual smackdown.

You come here and suggest that having a lot of money should make it easier for you to get a girl.

You get here practically to different kind of smackdowns of your mindset that doesn't work.
One is the loving Angela style smackdown:
You are responsible, take 100% responsibility and don't make excuses.

Then you have mattpd's more harsh smackdown based on a few PUA ideas.

Your problem of not understanding why you are getting the results you are getting lies in using a ineffective mindset.
There a few different mindsets that are constructive but to help you someone has to first smackdown your present mindset, since that mindset creates your problem.

If you have read Steves book, try another mindset:
You do you rate yourself in applying truth to your relationships with woman?
You do you rate yourself in applying love to your relationships with woman?
You do you rate yourself in applying power to your relationships with woman?

[Parthon]

jetpack: You are boring, be more interesting, do more interesting things.

[Jim11]

You need to figure out for yourself what you're doing on the first date or two to put them off. I honestly don't think we can tell from posted information, although it is possible that being timid and lacking social confidence is a contributing factor.

I have never followed the above advice of being "dominant or appearing bossy" with women, and I have never had a problem attracting them. This is not my style at all and IMO may be a valid method for some, but is definitely not necessary.

For me I think the following character traits seem to be what's attracted people to me:
- strong self-confidence and the ability to speak clearly and appear decisive.
- excellent listening skills and a genuine interest in getting to know the person I'm with. Try just enjoying the person's company, learning about THEM, and not thinking about the person in terms of long-term potential.

I also think it is unnecessary to take up hobbies that make you "appear interesting" such as rock climbing. Unless you actually want to and enjoy rock climbing, why would you do it. Seems dumb and fake.

Be yourself, have confidence, make moves when you feel it's right (don't be a wimp), etc. Don't think about your past failures in dating. Just go out there and think of the date as what it is, ie: an opportunity to get to know someone new without specific future expectations or "returns on your invested time"

Get the money ideas out of your head completely. If you don't look like you just woke up from a 10 hour sleep in the subway you'll be fine.

[jetpack]

Ok, maybe I'm in the wrong mindset. But frankly, most of you come off as pretty hostile, and I'm certainly regretting coming here. I was hoping for some intelligent conversation on the topic, based off the forum title.

I think many of you have overly fixated on the mention of money in my post. I'm not a millionaire or anything and I don't feel like one either. It's more that just relative to the poor people in my area, I feel blessed with a successful career. And while I have in the past attributed a successful career with ease of getting women, I do realize that's not the case.

Yes, I am very logical and I'm not giving that up for no chick. However, I don't think "boring" is the problem. I've barely begun to tell you about my life, so, I don't even feel I need to defend that.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by jetpack

most of you come off as pretty hostile
I'm certainly regretting coming here.
I was hoping for some intelligent conversation
many of you have overly fixated on the mention of money
Yes, I am very logical and I'm not giving that up for no chick.
I've barely begun to tell you about my life
I don't even feel I need to defend that.

NOW we're getting somewhere -- you're starting to give us an idea about why you have difficulty connecting with people.

I agree that calling you boring and an evolutionary dead-end was harsh. But it looks to me like you have the feeling that we are generally "against" you, when I think the opposite is actually true. Even Mr. Boring and Mr. Evolution, I think, just wanted to knock something through your skull that it's difficult for you to see. Rather than getting defensive, you might find some value in looking for your inner truth about what they're saying. It's not too hard for anyone to find some aspect of his life that is boring or working against his genetic longevity, but doing so doesn't mean you have to take it on as the root cause of your issue, and it sure doesn't mean you have to defend yourself against it.

Do you find yourself getting defensive and assuming ill intentions from people in "real life"? That is a good way to disconnect, that's for sure. Or do you find yourself feeling overwhelmed by criticism by new acquaintances? Maybe you feel like you need to protect yourself from having weaknesses or flaws discovered? Or maybe it's something else entirely? What I'm saying is, and this is true for all of us, not just you: if you are feeling stopped or ineffective in some area of your life, like romance, it is 100% you, and 0% them.

So again I ask: what do you think it is that you are doing that has you feeling disconnected? Not us; you. Can you see anything?

p.s.... I just have to say... if you find yourself clinging to logic at the same time you're getting flirty, chances are that is going to come off as somewhat boring to many women -- and mattpd is right, it's not going to much further your chances at begetting.

[mattpd]

Originally Posted by jetpack

Ok, maybe I'm in the wrong mindset. But frankly, most of you come off as pretty hostile, and I'm certainly regretting coming here. I was hoping for some intelligent conversation on the topic, based off the forum title.

I think many of you have overly fixated on the mention of money in my post. I'm not a millionaire or anything and I don't feel like one either. It's more that just relative to the poor people in my area, I feel blessed with a successful career. And while I have in the past attributed a successful career with ease of getting women, I do realize that's not the case.

Yes, I am very logical and I'm not giving that up for no chick. However, I don't think "boring" is the problem. I've barely begun to tell you about my life, so, I don't even feel I need to defend that.

yeah being too logical can certainly hurt your chances with women. I certainly train loads of logical guys, scientists, computer programmers, engineers, doctors, they seem to have similar ways of thinking, and this is helpful in some areas of their life, but makes dating hard.

First of all they talks about facts too much, they are not good at talking about feelings, or inner processes, or being open. Their conversation tends to simply be boring.

Also, they can tend to not enjoy the subtleties of dating, and sexual tension. The guys are great with women tend to actually enjoy the uncertainty, all the different steps, the tension, the intrigue, the figuring things out by chance, the not know what is going to happen, and the mystery of meeting a new person. Many people actually totally hate this!

The other thing is that they can be too serious. Dates are like job interviews, their questions are just way too intense, and they seem to carry over their logical seriousness from their job. If you could record me on a date, and realize how fun, carefree, and downright silly I am, it would shock.

I'm glad my advice really hit you, hopefully you can switch from complaining about not having what you want, to going out into the world and TAKING what you want.

[Parthon]

I agree with you there matt. I work in the IT field and I would say 90% of the guys are too logical and get extremely nervous and clam up in social situations. For them it's a problem they can't solve and cant' figure out because it's too random. In fact, social situations fall into regular patterns quite a lot and being smart can be a real help if the person gets rid of the need to have everything figured out. Social situations something to have fun with and enjoy, in fact, I would say that is the whole purpose of social situations.

If you are dating just to succeed in getting a partner, you are doing it wrong. It's also about having fun, enjoying yourself and just playing around with it all.

[SomeRandomGuy]

One thing that stands out to me as I read your post is that perhaps you are having trouble getting past the 1st or 2nd date because you are dating women who are not a good fit for you. Your post doesn't say that is the case, but it seems one possible reason you are not getting to the 3rd date. My guess is that as these girls get to know you they realize you aren't compatible, so decide to end things. I doubt that this is an indication of something negative about you, instead it may just be an indication of incompatibility.

I would suggest reevaluating where you are meeting women. It may be that the places where you meet women are not places where compatible women are very likely to be. For example, I would never dream of trying to meet someone in a club or bar, because I don't consider going to those places to be fun. While it is possible I could meet someone there I have a lot in common with, it is more likely I will meet a truly compatible person at a photography class or camping/hiking section of a sporting goods store.

It seems to me that most people fall into the quantity vs quality trap when picking somewhere to try to meet new people. In my opinion, however, it is worthless for me to meet 100 people who I have nothing in common with. I would much rather meet 1 person who enjoys the same things I do, has the same values, etc.