Having an awesome relationship and life

[mattpd]

This is mainly in reference to women, but its still important for men. A common trend is that women will mostly post about relationship issues, and men about dating issues.

I went to a seminar and the presenter said that up to 80% of our personal happiness is based upon our personal relationships. Not sure where he got those figures from, but it sounded smart. That could be the person you are intimate with, your family and/or friends, or lack thereof.

The biggest problem with our relationship and dating skills is that we are never really taught them. So at school we learn math, but not how to get a girl/boyfriend, and how to make smart decisions. Its no wonder that most people experience lots of terrible experiences with our personal relationships.

Its possibly our most important skill, and we never learn how to do it properly.

In my personal opinion the key to having an awesome relationship, and with that a pretty awesome life, is really self-improvement. As you improve yourself the quality of your relationships will improve. I constantly see women in particular trying to fix or improve their husbands, without a strategy on self-improvement being first and most important.

As you improve yourself, you will improve the quality of your reality, and you will increase your standards and skills, and the self-confidence and self-belief, and the self-acceptance, to make smart decisions. The idea of constant and gradual improvement of yourself is key.

Being coached, reading books, improving yourself, and getting better at communication skills, reading books on relationships, and generally being more secure in yourself and your ability to find someone else easily is critical. Having an awesome lifestyle, and improving your physical appearance is key.

Also, continuing this process once you get into a relationship is important. So many people only seem to be on a massive self-improvement journey when single, or when newly single, but get comfortable when they get into a relationship. This is a good way to have a bad sex life and bad relationship.

As you get more independent and improve yourself you become more attractive, and you care less about trying to fix the other person and you kind of either begin to have such an enjoyable personal reality that you stop caring about your partner not improving, and simply motivate through example, rather than verbally, which is the best way.

I've found also waiting until you really sort your stuff out before getting into a relationship is key, and being good at breaking up also. Having a low tolerance for losers, and being good at dating are great life skills. Never enter a relationship if you have really bad or addictive habits, that represent self-esteem issues.

Removing the need for validation from your partner is important as is letting them live their own journey, and not triggering their ego. Having fun together is critical, and avoiding being painful. They say most nagging is caused by having a boring life, so having challenges in your life is important.

Only dating compatible people is important, and taking your time, and getting experience is really important. So is being smart. Smart with not lying to yourself or living in denial. I've met people who cling to a dumb dream.

So the key is really to improve yourself, constantly. It will take a while, but the quality of your reality will improve. As a personal coach I coach lots of women, who are into personal development and the main cause of angst in their life is their husband or boyfriend. Its weird because when I coach men, they rarely bring up relationship issues, its more about getting a girlfriend, or making more money or something.

So I've drawn a few conclusions on why women in particular have so much stress and unhappiness in respect of their relationships.

Firstly, its almost as if on a core level, they enjoy the drama. Even if the relationship sucks, there is something that fulfills a primal need for drama, and problem solving. They get addicted to the pain of the situation, or the pain of relationship problems.

Secondly, I'm a member of several forums, and one on dating, its weird how women tend to spend 80% of their time in the 'relationships' forum and only 20% on the dating forum. Women are intrigued by relationships on some level, and tend to focus more on improving their relationship or fixing it, than improving their dating skills.

There is almost like a core belief that finding the right guy is hard so you need to date anyone, and then improve it. Rather than dating loads more to increase your chances of finding the right one. Women seem to seek a cure rather than prevention. I really believe most relationship problems are caused by not dating enough.

Also, I've noticed that a switch occurs when you have sex with a woman. So women will tend to date guys who are good at getting them into bed, because its almost as if when sex happens there is a bond for women, and they get attached on some level. This doesn't really occur so much for men.

Also, women can have this weird sense of commitment when it completely obvious they are dating a complete loser. They will endure years of pain, for what? There is some weird thing where they just put up with it, and try everything they can but leave. Its like their personal happiness is way down the list of priorities.

There is also this mindset women tend to have that a relationship is like building a house. And this makes them reluctant to 'throw it all away'. I sort of see a relationship as a journey, like a holiday or trip, and its an experience, rather than something tangible. I think this helps me in my relationship, rather than seeing self-sacrifice or personal hardship as bricks in a house.

I don't want to get women off-side by writing this, its just that I see so mnay women in unhappy relationships, and most of the time they are amazing women. Amazing women who make bad decisions. Amazing women who lack the confidence, or self-belief to leave or build the reality they deserve.

[oBakasan]

Very informative, thank you for posting that.

[harmonica]

Thanks for the advice. I especially like the metaphor about relationships being more like a vacation or a journey than a house.

[ns123]

Originally Posted by mattpd

I sort of see a relationship as a journey, like a holiday or trip, and its an experience, rather than something tangible.

I would feel very hurt is my husband thought our relationship was like a holiday or a trip, because, holidays or trips always end. And often, they are too short. I obviously don't share the same views as you in this regard, and if my husband shared these views, I'd look elsewhere for someone who has the same views as me in this area.

I don't think I know anyone in my circle of friends that feels this way about relationships. But then again, I surround myself with people whose values reflect my own.

Good luck on your holiday.

[robc]

Originally Posted by mattpd

Also, I've noticed that a switch occurs when you have sex with a woman. So women will tend to date guys who are good at getting them into bed, because its almost as if when sex happens there is a bond for women, and they get attached on some level. This doesn't really occur so much for men.

You've pretty much described in your post how men are logically minded and how women are emotionally minded - that is the core difference between the sexes.

You have described how men think about it, sex is just sex, bing, bang, boom, you're in & out of there, I had fun, it was pleasurable, see you later 'gator. On the logical side (how men tend to think), it's just sex - that's it.

Women who date men and have sex with them, trust men enough to share that special part of them, that's the emotional component to women and yes women get attached to men in that process - being physically intimate with someone requires trust that you don't get hurt, especially on the women's part - they want to feel safe & comfortable during this process otherwise why would they do it? When you can trust someone enough to have physical intimacy with them for the first time and then repeatedly afterwards, that trust fosters the emotional connection. It leads to other thought processes, ie. sex sometimes leads to procreation, continuation of the species, families, etc. That's the subconscious component in women - there's nothing wrong with that, we're all here today because of that thought process.

If women didn't have this component to them (I wouldn't say it's a bad thing either, i think it's a good thing), women would be having sex with every man on the planet without a care in the world and not worry about getting pregnant, having kids without having families, etc. That kind of thought process would probably affect other areas of life as well.

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by robc

You've pretty much described in your post how men are logically minded and how women are emotionally minded - that is the core difference between the sexes.

I fail to see how that demonstrates that claim.

Men are often more competitive than women. A guy might get really upset if he loses in table tennis, and get really happy if he wins. A woman might not care so much whether she wins or loses. It's just a game, flip flop and you're done and hopefully had fun with it.

For a man, his automobile might be something that he will invest much time in and care seriously about. For a woman, it might just be a tool that can get you from A to B. Which one is a more "rational" standpoint? I know of some guys that have speakers in their cars that are worth double the amount of what the car is worth, and they aren’t more interested in music than the average person. How ”logical”.

My point is that men and women are emotionally invested in different things.


Guys care as much about feelings as Gals

[Lauxa]

Good points Elrond! It does seem to me as a woman that men are more interested in "proving" they are more "logical" than women.

But I also agree that most women want a high level of trust in a relationship before they have sex. Maybe it is partly because women are afraid of being labeled as sluts or whores. Maybe it is because women have more at stake because they will be the ones to "bear the fruit" of the actions. In any case, once that sexual commitment is made, it is hard for some women to back out of the relationship.

[sheffy4]

Firstly, its almost as if on a core level, they enjoy the drama. Even if the relationship sucks, there is something that fulfills a primal need for drama, and problem solving. They get addicted to the pain of the situation, or the pain of relationship problems.

Secondly, I'm a member of several forums, and one on dating, its weird how women tend to spend 80% of their time in the 'relationships' forum and only 20% on the dating forum. Women are intrigued by relationships on some level, and tend to focus more on improving their relationship or fixing it, than improving their dating skills.

There is almost like a core belief that finding the right guy is hard so you need to date anyone, and then improve it. Rather than dating loads more to increase your chances of finding the right one. Women seem to seek a cure rather than prevention. I really believe most relationship problems are caused by not dating enough.

Mattpd!
You've made a sharp observation about gender differences, but I believe your conclusions could use some tweeking.
Women don't dig the drama any more than men do. The reason women focus so much on relationships and are always trying to solve problems with their friends/coworkers/boyfriends/husbands/family members is that women very often judge themselves by the quality of relationships they have.
Women are "supposed" to be good at nurturing, helping people, being loving, all that stuff, so we are always trying to live up to this (unspoken) responsibility we have as women. That's why if a relationship is going down hill, the woman often feels out of control and desperate to fix it: if her relationships fail, she's a failure. This is why women don't always leave losers. Any failed relationship undercuts her value as a woman.
I'm not sure if it's just how our society raises women to be, or if it's biological, or both; it may not be politically correct, but I believe it's true for most women.

[sheffy4]

Originally Posted by ns123

I would feel very hurt is my husband thought our relationship was like a holiday or a trip, because, holidays or trips always end.

Umm... Yeah. Everything ends. I don't think that knowing this fact would decrease any value your husband has for you or the relationship. In fact it probably has the opposite effect.
Does being aware of death make you care less about life? No! It makes you want to savor it even more, every day, every second!
I definitely like the idea of relationships as a journey.

[ns123]

sorry to cause confusion. I meant that holidays or trips seem short to me. So if some one said, hey, a relationship to me is a holiday, I would hear, relationships are short term.

I mean, really, what would you prefer?
Love is a journey.
Love is a holiday.
I like the first one. Sounds more... like a path to walk, instead of a short term diversion.

Yes, it is quite obvious that most things eventually end - like our physical experience on earth eventually will end. I wasn't thinking that. But thanks for pointing that out as a possible element of confusion.

[Parthon]

I prefer "Love is an experience!"

I might have it wrong, but the underlying message is that women have a larger tendency to get attached to their relationship than men. (Men are probably too busy getting attached to their toys and stuff. ) Bad relationships can, and should, be terminated, but often they aren't, because like matt said, women see them as an investment, like building a house. A loser boyfriend though is like building a house on sinking sand, no matter how many bricks you put into it, even if it's a 5 story mansion, it's probably doomed to fail. There is the rare case of maybe, rarely, one in a billion style chance of fixing the foundation and in this case it would be fixing the guy. The problem with that though, is that you are trying to change someone else, which is almost impossible, and it's just easier to start with a better foundation by finding a better guy.

Women could benefit from a change in perspective if they are in these situations. They could see dating as a try before you buy system, and really get to know if a guy is a good foundation for a relationship. A woman who is good at dating could get to know a guy really well, and figure out if he's suitable for a long term partnership or not. I think lack of the right skills and scared of being alone stops them from doing this.

Also, if you think this is only about dating you are wrong, notice how most people do this about jobs as well. They aren't picky about which job they get. They stay in a job for long periods of time even though they hate it and walking away from a job is easy. Getting a job requires skills which noone really develops, but some people are just great at getting different jobs. Plus there are those people who have a new job every 3 months. The problem is not with the job, but with people getting attached to their job. It's how they end up working in fast food for 5+ years, because they can't move on. People are terrified of being jobless because of the lack of money, which is understandable, but when you move on you can get a job fairly easily, if you approach it right and use the right skills to get a new job.

Dating and relationships are almost the same in that regard. If you are stuck in a dead end relationship with no hope of promotion, then it's time to go to some interviews and see if you can get a better one perhaps?

[blueflame]

I don't know if men being more logically minded about sex is necessarily true. Several of the men I have dated have been far more emotional about sex than I am (I'm a woman). I actually had one tell me that he didn't want to have sex unless it was an emotional experience (I think largely because he was afraid of having sex with a woman who was untrustworthy and would use it to hurt him later), and I had to continually stop in the middle of sex to make sure he was alright cause he got so emotional (mind you, this was also the same time I was losing my virginity, I should have been the emotional one lol ). I think guys pretend not to care about a lot of things, or focus on certain other things more than females do, but I'm not sure how much of this results from social conditioning or their physical gender.

[Holistic Star]

Oxytocin is a huge component of why women 'fall in love' after sex.

Oxytocin is the love hormone, it is released in the female brain during orgasm.
It makes an otherwise so-so man, seem like the love of your life!*

Ever heard of Beer Goggles? Sex creates Oxytocin Goggles!

(It is also released in large quantities during childbirth and breastfeeding and helps mother and baby bond together).




*Obviously doesn't always happen.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by mattpd

This is mainly in reference to women, but its still important for men. A common trend is that women will mostly post about relationship issues, and men about dating issues.

One reason for that is that men and women tend to have a different perspective and language on "relationship," I think. Women tend to feel like they are "in a relationship" as soon as they begin relating to someone, romantically or not, whether it's with a man, woman, or child; men, I think, hear the word "relationship" as "committed monogamy." Being related and being in a committed monogamous relationship are two entirely different things.

Sometimes women mix them up, yes -- and hope and fool themselves into thinking they're in a committed monogamous relationship when what they're really doing is relating. And sometimes men mix them up, too -- and think they're relating just because they're in committed and monogamous. And the vice-versa happens, too!

I've seen plenty of men agonize over whether or not to "cut their losses" and end an LLTMBR that's not working, just as women do. That oxytocin thing Holistic Star mentioned (addictive love) and also limiting self-beliefs ("I'll never have sex again!" "(S)he is the only person who could ever understand or love me!") often override our innate sense that we are infinitely powerful, abundant, and joyful. Oops!

All that said, I think women AND men would have much more love, freedom, and joy in their love lives if they let go of what we've been taught so strenuously: that romantic relationships are there to make you happy, satisfied and fulfilled; and you can't be happy, satisfied, or fulfilled until you're in one. That's a stinky load of poo.

Date for fun! Not to *have* a relationship. Even if you think you *have* a relationship, you don't really *have* a relationship.

[Daphne Lim]

Wow, that was a detailed post with lots of food for thought. I agree that women tend to take relationships more seriously than men do in general, because our relationships define who we are for the most part whereas men compartmentalise more and define themselves by much more than their relationships eg work, sports, hobbies.

Another difference may be that women understand ourselves by who we are, by BEING a certain person. and relationships are a big part of that. Men tend to understand themselves by what they do, and you can't DO a relationship so they focus on things they can do instead, like work.

[Silent Lucidity]

What a great post! I agree that women should date more before choosing to be in a relationship with someone. There are probably many reasons we don't. There's a biological tendancy to pick one person out of a group who seems like the most suitable mate. The initial attraction, chemistry and emotional connection helps us decide. And men, you can change how you act and cause a woman to be more attracted to you. There are textbooks on this stuff. Once we're dating that person, time with other people becomes less 'meaningful' we'd much rather be with the one person, put in the time with them, to make things the best they can be with them, why? Because if feels good! Feels great to be in a loving, exciting, fun, connected emotional place with another person!! So if you've already got one good one, why would you need more??? When that energy could be put into the one man who will most likely work out.... Then once we have sex, yes, that little 'I neeeed you' switch gets activated. That is biology, not choice.

Sex is supposed to activated the man's protective-provider hormones too by the way.

Keep in mind the man's biological clock is far slower than the woman's, it takes about a year for the man to start feeling as committed as the woman after starting to have sex.

So the way to get around this, as a woman is to fight your instincts, date more men at once, be casual, and don't have sex until you are ready to have that switch flipped.

We get the most deep fufillemnt from meaningful emotional connection with others. It's not about how society sees us in terms of sucessful or failed relatonships. It's just, that is what's most satisfying to us.

However, the idea of dating more people to find the best on with which to buiild the foundation, yes, that's very very good and very very true

Now, we know woman are supposed to be the 'selectors' in the dating game, as we have limited rescources, (eggs) but then with the biological clock difference between men and woman, it would seem that the men end up 'selecting' the woman they want, as they just don't get as serious as quickly, so they can be more rational about what they want.

What are your thoughts on that?

As an aside as a woman I'd love to have a career coach. That's what I want most right now, as that will fix my 'social status' so I can attract the right man and have better 'relationships'. lol.