My awesome girlfriend and a terrific weekend + New Forum Rules.

[driven1]

Originally Posted by Brutha

The question is whether you are making them feel bad or whether you are inspiring with sharing a positive story with them.
I think it a much better choice to feel inspired when you read about someones success.

There's something about hearing somebody describe their own success that so often rubs other people the wrong way. Like if mattpd wrote a book about how he got good at meeting women, a whole lot of people would dismiss him as an arrogant jerk who's just tooting his own horn. But if YOU wrote a book about how mattpd got good at meeting women, people would be more apt to believe it.

Ya know, I may experiment with this... If I, myself, did something that I think is really great and can inspire people, I'll try telling it as if my buddy Steve did it.

Originally Posted by Brutha

It's a totally different approach when you ask yourself: "How do I inspire people?"
Then when you ask yourself: "How can I make other people see myself favorable?"

Definitely. And maybe I just don't have the knack for the former. (...YET! I'm open to suggestions!!) I seem to do better by a.) inspiring by example, and b.) letting other people brag about my accomplishments -- preferably when I'm not around. Other than that, I pretty much STFU about anything I'm proud of.

Originally Posted by Brutha

I think that fundamentally the forum would work better if people would think more about the first question than the second question.

Amen, Brutha!

[mattpd]

Yeah good to see not everyone got caught up in my use of language and words, and actually got the message.

I like using the financial analogy, however many hate it as it conflicts with their beliefs, and demonstrates how some people view relationships.

Say this was a financial forum where people talk about money, this forum would be like somewhere people people who were completely broke could vent about their financial issues, and advice would mainly be based around getting yourself out of a highly stressful and difficult situation.

That would be helpful, and important, but it would be better in the long-run if many people posted who were financially independent and people asked them questions and learned from them. These financially independent people could share their strategies, and post positive threads about success, that would inspire.

Some people take a different view of relationships because they think its not as easy to measure success, or that its more a personal journey, or that its luck, or that there is much good to come from a bad relationship. I kind of disagree completely, because relationships are not mysterious, either they make you happy or they don't.

You are never going to stop new people starting off with their bad stories, but there could be more of a positive feel overall. because I think continually reading about crisis can actually reinforce many common beliefs that this is how life is, and amazing relationships are rare.

[striving4peace]

Even if we stick to the financial analogy - what's wrong with broke people coming on board, stating thier situation and asking for advice? I agree, the easiest thing in the financial example would be to tell people the same thing:
start small, accept the situation, set goals, live a little more frugally, work to eliminate your debt, then start savings, then move up to SIP, finally larger investment like equity / commodity / real estate, and diversify assets, automate passive income, retire.

how hard would it be to copy paste that onto every guy who came on board to that financial forum? yet from the grand scheme of things it would even look like a "one solution fits all" would work. It even just might. But people dont always want a mass manufactured peice of advice. And usually the biggest problem people have is taking good knowledge and applying it to thier life. My university's motto was "knowledge is power". I scoffed at it every single time I looked at it, because they got it so arrogantly wrong: the truth is 'APPLIED knowledge is power'.

Like everyone else, I'm also gonna give kudos to the idea that we need more "chicken soup for the soul" stories around here where we can learn from case studies with happy endings. But as someone pointed out, it will tend to come close to bragging unless you tell us how you did it, and how you overcame the obstacles. Intead of hearing "oh i was with jessica alba and driving around in my ferrari" We'd rather hear - "I went from being broke and lonley to alba + ferrari and THIS is how i did it:....."

[Angela]

Originally Posted by mattpd

Yeah good to see not everyone got caught up in my use of language and words, and actually got the message.

Mattpd, as you are an expert in relationship and all, I'm guessing you'll recognize that along with a message comes a meta-message, and also that the use of language and words is the key vessel for transmitting both message and meta-message.

It's an effective thing to look at when you find that people are getting caught up in your use of language and words, and reacting in opposition to your message.

[marinik]

Originally Posted by mattpd

Okay, a new forum rule:

So here I am, I'm going first.

This weekend was awesome.

After so many bad relationships its great to finally be with someone whom time is really enjoyable, and it just flies.

We have this special language thing going where we have about 1,000 private jokes and this includes:

- Putting 'le' at the start of most words and speaking with a French accent
- using limited German to interact
- reciting funny lines from movies that no-one else gets
- using an accent to say vulgar things in public but no-one else can de-code

I'm looking forward to maybe taking a Spanish course together, that will only increase our ability to make the funniest things out of nothing and laugh most of the time we hang out.

Its like we have a bubble and we are communicating on such a similar level much of the time, and we have our own special language starting to develop together. Time seems to fly, and pretty much anything becomes fun and funny.

I think we share a dry sarcastic sense of humour and the ability to laugh at almost nothing. So this weekend I laughed soo much it was awesome.

Reading your posts in the Wow, it almost seems like everything I read here is wrong. thread, I got the impression that you had it nailed, that you always found the right girl and that you can help people do this also by overcoming all heir inhibitions in going out there. So now we see a totally different picture you painted. You are finally in a good relationship – so you had a lot of bad ones?????

By the way - Good for you. But a little humility would not hurt.

[driven1]

That's exactly what I mean: hack, hack, hack...

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by mattpd

I like using the financial analogy, however many hate it as it conflicts with their beliefs, and demonstrates how some people view relationships.

Say this was a financial forum where people talk about money, this forum would be like somewhere people people who were completely broke could vent about their financial issues, and advice would mainly be based around getting yourself out of a highly stressful and difficult situation.

That would be helpful, and important, but it would be better in the long-run if many people posted who were financially independent and people asked them questions and learned from them. These financially independent people could share their strategies, and post positive threads about success, that would inspire.

After re-reading this post I think I am starting to see where a lot of the disagreement stems from.

It seems that many people (myself included) like the fact that users can post their issues, questions, etc and invite feedback from everyone. This allows feedback to come from all different angles, including people with personal experience overcoming the same issue, people who have avoided falling into the same problem, people who have helped others overcome those issues, etc. The OP then has the ability to sort through the advice and determine which are applicable to their situation and which they should not apply. Sure there are times when bad advice is given, but the OP can decide that for themselves. I find that advice is much more valuable when there are varying pieces of advices (sometimes that are contradictory) and the person seeking advice is able to determine which advice is good and which is bad (rather than having someone else tell them specifically which piece of advice they should follow). I guess this is related to my theory that people need to be exposed to both the good and bad in all situations and decide their path for themselves; otherwise the chosen path isn't really their path.

On the other hand, it seems that there are others (such as matttpd) who would prefer to see people post positive experiences in order to establish a level of authority on the topic, then allow people to pose questions to those authorities. I see no problem with people posing questions directly to an individual, if they feel that person can better answer their question than the other forum members. I do think, however, that this would limit the range of advice given. If the authority happens to be wrong (or just has wildly different beliefs than the questioner) then the advice given is bad, and no alternative advice is given. There is no way to know if the person is really an authority. Someone could make up this awesome success story and then claim that they are even better at relationships than mattpd (maybe they say they have never been in a bad relationship, have dated tens of thousands of amazing women, and can pick up any woman they want in a matter of minutes). We would really have no way of knowing if this person was really an authority. The only way to know if this persons advice is actually good is to judge each piece of advice given, rather than just accepting it because it is from an authority. That is actually what I think should be done with every piece of advice received on any forum.

One of the things I really like about forums such as this one is that the users determine the content and even the "feel" of the forum. I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the users of this forum have chosen the way in which they prefer advice to be sought and given.

For those authorities who wish to use this as more of an advice column, perhaps rather than try to change the forum you could start your own thing. Maybe start a blog where you can tell your readers all of your amazing success stories. Then allow readers to pose questions to you, which you answer as part of your blog. You could even identify other posters here you feel are qualified to give advice and invite them to serve as guest advice givers on your blog. It seems that something like this would allow this forum to remain as the users have developed it while still giving the authorities a way in which to dispense their advice without worrying about people with different viewpoints (aka bad advice givers) getting in the way.

[ns123]

SomeRandomGuy,

You are right on the money! I totally agree with what you said.

I also agree with mattpd's advice that posting positive stories would be beneficial - because they can be comforting, or inspiring. I don't agree to his tone, but I agree to his message that positive threads have a benefit too.

I have suggested that those who wish to dispense advice from a position of authority should start their own forum too. So I'm right there with you.

Right now though, I find much value in the advice here already, and much value in the forum as it is. That's not saying it can't change, but I don't like the "only speak if you are an authority" condition that has been proposed.

[Brutha]

Definitely. And maybe I just don't have the knack for the former. (...YET! I'm open to suggestions!!) I seem to do better by a.) inspiring by example, and b.) letting other people brag about my accomplishments -- preferably when I'm not around. Other than that, I pretty much STFU about anything I'm proud of.

I know it isn't easy, but you could start by practicing.

Sit down, ask yourself:
What could I write about to inspire people?
Open a thread and write to inspire.

I know that it's a challenge, but in the end this forum is about personal growth.

Bonus Points:
Join toastmasters and use personal stories to give speeches to inspire.

[mattpd]

I think I have an acute sensitivity for a positive, or negative, mental attitude.

Like I'll meet someone and without realizing it consciously I'll assess their mental attitude, as to whether its positive or negative, and I'll have a process of analysis about it. It happens below the conscious level, and then it becomes conscious.

Like, I'll meet someone and my brain has a way of telling me out of the last 10 sentences they say, how many are positive and how many are negative.

I'll actually make friends solely based upon this factor. If someone says between 5 and 10 negative sentences, I will simply remove them from my reality.

I told off one of my friends for this last night.

We go out to a bar, and this is his dialogue:

1. I don't really like this place
2. There are not many girls here
3. The girls are pretty tall
4. This place is not very good
5. Look at that girl, she is fat

So its no wonder that he creates a reality for himself where people dislike him, he has crisis after crisis in his personal and business life, and he seems to have no luck at all.

I tell him this, so he tries then to fake a positive mental attitude by saying fake positive things, he really doesn't believe.

Let me clear, you create your own reality!

So a forum where everybody is spouting negativity is not really acting helping at all when you look at the bigger picture. It has nothing to do with your awful boyfriend, or your messed up sex life, or your annoying ex-wife, and actually focusing on that negativity can actually make it worse.

I'm not saying that venting, and this forum plays an important part in the healing, and getting it out process is bad, but really the core problem is really being negative and creating this reality for yourself.

I just see loads of negative mental attitudes here. Loads of people who are focusing on their problems, and the bad stuff that happens, and having extremely negative dialogue.

Especially with relationships and dating you really do create your own reality. Like I get a guy who talks negatively about the process and his reality will completely stink, and I get a guy who talks positively about the whole process, and his reality is awesome. And they are very similar.

So all these threads about problems, they are not about the problems at all, there are core issues that are causing the problems. Stuff like low self-esteem, and bad beliefs, and negative mental attitude.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by mattpd

...really the core problem is really being negative and creating this reality for yourself.

I just see loads of negative mental attitudes here. Loads of people who are focusing on their problems, and the bad stuff that happens, and having extremely negative dialogue.

And who is creating all this negativity? Yup, YOU, you powerful guy, you!

I see loads of positive mental attitudes here -- loads of people who are pulling for each other, loads of honesty and directness, big boatloads of love and compassion, huge loads of heart.

[Brutha]

I told off one of my friends for this last night.

We go out to a bar, and this is his dialogue:

Is that anything different than what you are saying?
1. The people here are giving the wrong advice.
2. The people here a negative.
3. This forum is a hive for victims.

[driven1]

I'm with mattpd here, but I'd even go further (as I said in another thread): I think it ALL boils down to a person's self-esteem. If a person is hating, they're trying to grab self-esteem from others. And vice-versa -- if a person is spreading love, they have TONS of self-esteem and don't need to hoarde it. I see it as a sort of commodity, almost like currency -- only much, much more valuable. Actually, I've come to think that maximizing one's self-esteem is what life is all about. (And how appropriate that self-esteem is probably THE MOST IMPORTANT core criteria for a guy trying to meet women.)

Most of my friends are positive (which, IMO, equals high self-esteem), but if I'm with somebody and they start going negative on other people, I simply say "Stop hating." or a more joking "Daaaamn! Look at you, bein all 'Hate, hate, hate...'" (ala Dave Chapelle's "Playa Hater's Ball") Ya know, sorta check them. Of course, I expect the same from them if/when I go negative. If they KEEP ON and KEEP ON, then yes I'll cut them out of my life.

As an aside: I really think people need to understand and acknowledge the difference between how somebody gives advice in a personal development forum and how people act in day-to-day real life. For example, it might be entirely accurate and appropriate to answer an online problem/question with "You have low self-esteem." ... whereas you would NEVER say that in real life. Quick way to bruise an ego and lose a friend!

I just wish we could drop the insecurity here and simply take advice as constructive, rather than as a personal attack to be bristled against.