can a straight male watch gay porn and still be straight?

[marklang500]

Ages 6-12 can be influenced into alternative sexual orientations through _________.

You can fill in the blank with as many wrong answers as you like, doesn't make the sentence true.

Ah, but who decides what the right and wrong way to fill in that blank is? Not me, not you.

But we DID agree that there is something that could go in that blank to make it true. It may take a 500 page manuscript written by a collaboration of every psychological professor in the world to fill in that blank completely accurately.

My point is, it is possible. That is enough reason to take this thing much more seriously than bombarding our children with ideas that never occured to them.

You are right, homophobia is a disorder. But I said MY definition of homophobia (I thought we've been through this already..) So I guess since we never coined the new word, I lost to the old switcheroo back to the "hate filled, disorder" version of the word. That's not what I meant.

"Fear of inadvertant, sexual orientation manipulation of children" is what I mean. We really, really need a word for that so the discussion will stop turning ugly, such as the case in Massachusets, by the use of "homophobia", "discrimination", and "hate". None of those accurrately portray the reality of heterosexual parents feeling on this topic.

"Fear of inadvertant, sexual orientation manipulation of children"

If you really care about the world gaining understanding and removing all discriminations against the gay community, you will focus oin THIS fear, and put it to rest through safeguards and minimum ages.

[The David]

The term homophobia is kind of a wild card. I've known gay people who use the term to mean anything they don't like. I've heard straight guys use it in reference to themselves and their dislike of being touched by other guys. The term doesn't seem to have any real clinical definition.

[marklang500]

Exactly. We need a new word that everyone can champion. I don't think the gay community is wanting to promote sexual orientation manipulation either! So I've tweaked the definition a bit:

"To be a ____________ is to be against the inadvertant or purposeful, overt or covert, manipulation of the sexual orientation of people at any age."

This is what I am against. You are against this too, right? I really feel I've found a common ground here! We could practically start a new gay/straight alliance with this as the core foundation and render "homophobia" a thing of the past! I'm serious here. We just need a new term, like "sexual truist" or something...

(notice, by using the word "people" it protects post adolescents the trauma of going through these crazy "boot camps" to manipulate them into hetersexuality, while simultaneously protecting children from "educational" programs that introduce them to homosexual notions before they have even had thier first sexual thought.)

[marklang500]

From Coming to America, Arsenio Hall sez: "Sexual Chocolate, everyone! SEXUAL CHOCOLATE!"

(sorry, I couldn't resist)

[Bharat Keshwala]

Perhaps hes Bi-Curious.

Once is curious, but 2 or 3 times and hes tempted.

In general if a guy sees gay porn hes only Bi if hes turned on by it, if he was totally gay he wouldn't be with you any more?

[The David]

Originally Posted by Bharat Keshwala

In general if a guy sees gay porn hes only Bi if hes turned on by it, if he was totally gay he wouldn't be with you any more?

Lots of gay guys start off with women while they are still sorting things out. This is more likely to be the case if he has never acted out with a guy before. Sometimes they even do what people call a 'cover-up' marriage, kind of like when a straight couple marries because she's pregnant. But if he's happy with a woman, it doesn't matter what we or anyone else calls him. I think Jess is just trying to figure out if he is happy or not. It's pretty obvious he's more than a little curious about the other team.

Mark, I'm still not sure what you're talking about. Are you talking about children having their orientations changed by adults? As in, molested, or coerced through gay-straight-dichotomy propaganda? I don't even know if I'm asking the right questions.

[SomeRandomGuy]

I have to say that I have a very hard time understanding why such an issue is being made from this. To answer the OPs question, does it really matter? If your boyfriend is committed to you, trying to label him as gay, bisexual or straight is irrelevant. If he is committed to you, and you feel confident he is not going to cheat on you then does it really matter why he visited gay porn sites? If you fear he might cheat, then that is a different story. Would it be different, however, if he cheated with a guy rather than a girl? Personally I don't see any difference.

As for the sexuality debate, I don't understand why it is so important to force a label onto someone. I view sexual orientation has a preference, but not a hard and fast rule. What I mean by this is that I am especially attracted to black women. My wife, however, is about as white as is possible. Do I prefer black girls? Maybe. Does that mean I am not attracted to my wife (or anyone who is not black?) absolutely not. I think the same applies to gender. I consider myself heterosexual (I am attracted to women). That doesn't mean it is impossible for me to be attracted to another man.

I know that my views on sexuality are usually not very well received. I suppose I have a very simplistic way of looking at the subject. I just feel that when discussing attraction, gender is of no more importance than race, hair color or any other physical attribute in which one may have a preference. Remember, there was a time, not too long ago, when many whites would have not have even considered being attracted to a black girl as an option. They were heteroracial (i know that isn't a real word) by default. I believe that is what we have seen regarding gender.

I think it is unfair of parents to shelter their kids and teach them that the only option is to be attracted to someone of a certain race. Likewise, I think it is unfair of parents to teach their kids that the only acceptable relationships are heterosexual. When I have kids, I want them to grow up knowing who they are. I have spent the past decade trying to find myself, after growing up in a very traditional conservative family. I do not want to see my kids go through the same thing in any area of their life; including sexuality. I plan to expose my kids to as many options as possible in all areas of life; including religion, sexuality, morality, etc. so they can choose the path that is right for them.

[Parthon]

Marklang: I can see where you are coming from in terms of wanting to raise your children:

If children's sexuality can be influenced by the culture around them, then a pro-gay teaching in a school could be confusing and potentially harmful to those children who are inherently hetrosexual, as much as a pro-hetro message would be for any child that's inherently gay. A parent would also want to remove that influence and give the child the best method of choosing for themselves.

This isn't just about sexuality too, it's about parents being able to choose what's right for their kids, vs kids choosing for themselves, vs what they learn in school. How can we say we value freedom to choose, when we have any messages at all?

[ZeeZoy]

You either 1) need to learn some new tricks for the bedroom or 2) find yourself a new boyfriend.

The last thing you want is to sleep with a man who sleeps with a man because of increased risk of contracting STD's. So, either get good enough to keep his mind from wandering or get rid of him.

Cheers!

[Acting Like Godot]

Originally Posted by ZeeZoy

The last thing you want is to sleep with a man who sleeps with a man because of increased risk of contracting STD's. So, either get good enough to keep his mind from wandering or get rid of him.

Yup ... That would be as bad as sleeping with a man who sleeps with another woman, and for the same reason - the increased risk of contracting STDs.

[robertanthony]

Are Your attitudes heterosexist???
Take This Test & Find Out!!!

The Heterosexism Enqurier - The "Are my attitudes heterosexist???" Test

[marklang500]

robertanthony wrote: Are Your attitudes heterosexist???
Take This Test & Find Out!!!

The Heterosexism Enqurier - The "Are my attitudes heterosexist???" Test

That was entertaining, but BS. It was actually loaded with anti-heterosexual sentiment. For example, toward the end it lumped racism and child molestation in. Yeah, we heterosexuals are an evil bunch!

It also defined homophobia as "the overt expression of fear, hate, or dislike towards homosexuals". So again, I need a new word, because that doesn't describe me at all.

28. Do you organize social events in a manner which welcomes people of all sexualities?
a. Yes (0)
b. No (3)
c. Never gave it any thought (3)

So, not only am I penalized 3 points for answer B, but I am ALSO penalized for answering C! Ridiculous!

If you have asked, or wanted to ask, a similar question to someone who is not heterosexual, check. (3)

This is a main point getter, wanting to talk about it. Apparently, gays and lebians are supposed to be able to pass all kinds of new legislation but the heterosexual people aren't allowed to ask questions.

My favorite BS is the use of the word "heterosexist" as some sort of transitional term between being pro-homosexual and homophobic. Not perfect, but not as bad as homophobic. It's a cute play on words to make "hetero" into a non-politically correct term.

I am so tired of this discussion. Seems like whenever I come close to getting my point understood (and it takes pages and pages to do that...) someone comes along and throws a stone to send the pendulum swinging again. So much for finding common ground!

The David wrote: Mark, I'm still not sure what you're talking about. Are you talking about children having their orientations changed by adults? As in, molested, or coerced through gay-straight-dichotomy propaganda? I don't even know if I'm asking the right questions.

What I'm talking about mainly, is the introduction of homosexual media and teachings in our grade schools. It is a real problem if you are a _________. (new word needed)

"To be a ____________ is to be against the inadvertant or purposeful, overt or covert, manipulation of the sexual orientation of people at any age."

You kinda act as though you just want to be left alone and have equality. Really, I'm fine with that! But then gay/lesbian organizations start pushing thier propoganda into the early education system! Then I fight against it, and suddenly I am a hater! I am NOT hater.

I simply beleive that it is possible to manipulate the future sexual orientation of children through media exposure and curriculum.

No one will ever be able to change that perception in me, so I will always fight against early homosexual education. I am for equal rights, I am against discrimination. But apparently gay/lesbian groups won't be happy until heterosexual parents teach thier children how great it is to be gay! And this, coming at a time in thier life when they are building friendships with the same sex, learning how to socialize, and "girls are gross". It's very confusing for a kid that is still at this stage of social development.

And to pretend that it can't happen is just putting your head in the sand.

Now, I imagine there are PLENTY of gay/lesbians that don't activley lobby gay material for kindergarteners, and many that may also be against these things. If you are, then stand up and agree that it is wrong to endoctrinate children into sexual orientations that differ from who they are!

(See how fairly I wrote that?)

The only challenge ahead then, is defining where the line should be drawn.

(BTW, thanks Parthon, I really am trying to be honest AND fair. Thanks for seeing past the "homophobic" facade that these discussions can never seem to shake!)

[SomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by marklang500

Now, I imagine there are PLENTY of gay/lesbians that don't activley lobby gay material for kindergarteners, and many that may also be against these things. If you are, then stand up and agree that it is wrong to endoctrinate children into sexual orientations that differ from who they are!

How do you know that your children are heterosexual? You are encouraging gay and lesbian parents to say it is wrong to endoctrinate heterosexual children into becoming homosexual. Do you also agree that it would be wrong for you to attempt to endoctinate a homosexual child into being heterosexual? If so, how do you justify not allowing your child to be exposed to the concepts of homosexuality since you can't possibly know for certain that your child is not homosexual. At the early ages your are referring to, I doubt that the children know what their orientation is. As you said, young boys often think girls are gross. That doesn't sound very heterosexual to me, although I think it would premature to make a determination like before the child has had an opportunity to develop his/her sexuality.

[marklang500]

I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me here.

Do you also agree that it would be wrong for you to attempt to endoctinate a homosexual child into being heterosexual?

Sure.

If so, how do you justify not allowing your child to be exposed to the concepts of homosexuality since you can't possibly know for certain that your child is not homosexual.

I justify not allowing it because allowing it runs the risk of sending the opposite message. Better safe than sorry, for either side.

At the early ages your are referring to, I doubt that the children know what their orientation is.

Agreed!

As you said, young boys often think girls are gross. That doesn't sound very heterosexual to me

You don't understand stages of development. To label kindergarten boyish views that "girls are gross" with the label "not very heterosexual" is just silly.

although I think it would premature to make a determination like before the child has had an opportunity to develop his/her sexuality.

Agreed!

The point is, in my opinion, you shouldn't teach a class of 25 kids all about homosexual relationships during a period of life that sexual relationships don't exist, and in fact homo-friendship relationships are the focus! Don't you see how that can be very confusing?

I was extremely homo-friendship in grade school. I became heterosexual in adulthood.

Now if you want to take this to the next logical step, we would have to stop teaching heterosexual relationships too. Please note, however, that "where do babies come from" will still be taught, because it is simply a fact. It can still be taught in the absence of the discussion of relationships.

I really like where this idea is headed. Do you? If you don't then please explain why.

[SomeRandomGuy]

As I was reading the last response I was formulating my reply, which was going to include, "Maybe we should not be allowing heterosexual relationships to be taught to our children as well". You beat me to that point.

I would be much more comfortable having neither heterosexual nor homosexual relationships taught than having only one or the other. However, that seems very impractical to me. To achieve this teachers would have to avoid any mention of hetero relationships, which would mean no stories, reports or even math problems involving husbands/wifes, mothers/fathers, boyfriend/girlfriend, etc. As long as any mention is made to those heterosexual relationships, I would expect equal mention to be given to homosexual relationships. Otherwise, all kids are being taught only one side of the sexuality equation. I just can't see a practical way to avoid all mention of heterosexual relationships in schools. Not only would schools have to ban Romeo & Juliet, but some might argue that Jack & Jill should be banned as well, as silly as that might seem.

[Parthon]

That's the tricky part. It's the difference between educating children about the world and pushing an ideaology on them. While you could show children all the different kinds of relationships, hetero, homo and in between, it would have to be done in such a way that doesn't portray a leaning. Saying Jack and Jill are married is fine, saying that it's the way people should be is not fine. Saying that boys liking boys or girls liking girls is fine, but if you make a big deal about the fact, it will send the wrong message. Give the kids the facts, but let them make up their own mind. Also: tolerance and acceptance aren't facts either, but they are a good start for behaviour, the big question is how do we teach acceptance of others without pushing agendas?

Perhaps we don't even mention sexuality before puberty, and just teach unity and acceptance. Would that work?

[SomeRandomGuy]

That seems reasonable to me. If kids can be exposed to all viewpoints on an equal basis, without having any particular viewpoint pushed on them, then I don't see an issue.

[marklang500]

Actually, "relationships" themselves would have to have a minimum age of like 6th to 8th grade. Then you could start the:

While you could show children all the different kinds of relationships, hetero, homo and in between, it would have to be done in such a way that doesn't portray a leaning.

Before 6th grade, no mention of relationships at allcould be made:

Math problems could say things like "a man and a woman buy a bag of 7 apples...." given equal time to "two men share a pizza with 8 slices..."

But you couldn't use things like "Two men buy a house with $200000..." because buying a house is pointing toward a relationship that sharing a pizza is not. You could use "Two people buy a house for $200000..."

Before 6th grade, I guess we just need to treat "relationships" in school with the same treatment that we've given religion in school. None allowed.

It is very do-able. The rules would have to be very strict, highly enforced. It would be difficult, but hey, this is a difficult situation that is leading to violence that needs to stop.

[philm]

VetTechJess,

Hope things are well with you.

All this doesn't mean your BF will cheat on you & go have sex with a man, but it shows you something & You might have a bit of soul searching to do.

Bluntly, your BF is scared of revealing to you he has an urge to watch mens bum and men having sex in each other bums. There's something about this he finds pleasurable or perhaps he's got a job in the pipeline as a male porn star. Its not wrong. Its just his urges at play.

If we look at a mans bum and go 'Mmmmm thats nice' its not a bum we're attracted to. It's the pleasure we attach to it, 'me' in bum and the future possibilities, be that sexual or romantic or other unconsious urge brought about by our past habits. Otherwise we'd just ignore it or think oh that's a mans bum, so what.

More importantly, can you really put his lies, his fears, aside, trust him not to cheat with a man and move on & what will you do IF he really does, deep down, have sexually desire men as well or instead ?

Take care VT & you'll always be OK no matter what : )

[robertanthony]

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[hollowman]

Personally i think a straight guy would find it repulsive to watch gay porn.

Anyway to be fair, its safer to give him the benefit of doubt.

Perhaps you may detect less passionate sex or lower sex drive in him (when having sex with him). If you do, then you may start worrying...

[RT Wolf]

Original Poster:

Women tend to have higher erotoplatiscity than men. That is, women, at least in some studies, got turned on by watching both man-man, man-woman and woman-woman porn. So...odds are, original poster, you're prolly a little bit gay yourself if you explored things a little bit.

Kidding aside, as a highly conscious individual, I would suggest you explore your feelings of resistance. How do you feel about him being possibly bi-curious or gay? Why do you feel that way? (You don't have to tell us). If you are able to summon the selfless compassion (and its hard), you may be supportive with him and tell him that if he needs to explore his sexuality, its ok. You may also have to accept that this relationship may end because of his explorations, however, you will both probably be better off in the long run. He might explore his urges and decide he's bi, or gay, or he may find he is completely straight. In either case, its better for him to figure it out and to feel like he is supported. If he turns out to be straight, hooray, if he turns out to be gay and you are unwilling to let go, then you'll be in a relationship with an unwilling or hesitant partner, and that's no fun.

So, explore your feelings. Consider the following sources:

The Power of Now
Personal Development - UrbanMonk.Net
Awareness and Resistance
Tolerance Is Resistance to Love

Good luck!

PS Based on his resistance to wanting to talk about it and my knowledge of straight males (from studies and personal experience--they don't tend to watch gay porn), I have concluded that he is probably exploring this area, whether out of personal interest (in which case, wait and see if it happens again) or because he might be compelled ot do so (in which case, the above applies). Either way, the self-exploration is a good idea for you and for your growth.

[Scipio]

Why does it matter if he watches gay porn or not?

I don't see how it would change anything in your relationship.

Try thinking about him as your boyfriend, neither gay nor straight. He is what he is. He's attracted to you, and that's all that's really relevant and matters as far as this topic goes. I think in this situation, the biggest problem is with you and not with the boyfriend. The problem consists in introspecting on your beliefs and finding out why this bothers you so much.

[Pawr]

Don't sweat it, it's not that big of a deal. It sounds like he quite obviously is bi-curious. Doesn't make him gay all of the sudden. Who knows what he is suppressing? I would advise you to read on the Kinsey scale:

0 Exclusively heterosexual
1 Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
2 Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3 Equally heterosexual and homosexual; bisexual.
4 Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5 Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
6 Exclusively homosexual

Kinsey scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Michael Chui]

This seems like a good time to point out that the thread is 4 months old.

[RT Wolf]

^ Hahahahaha. Good catch. Even I missed it.

[Alexjstrandberg]

Yeah he's gay. With gay men it's mostly black and white with getting turned on by two men having sex. If he gets turned on by watching porn and chatting with other gay men then he falls into that category.

Two things:

1. He can't be taught to be straight. Can't teach a gay dog straight tricks

2. It's not your fault. Most times women will take a situation like this on their shoulders but you didn't cause this to happen.