Opinions, please

[carenkh]

Do I send this link to handsome married man?

Open-Hearted Life: Truly Open-Hearted

I know if I sit with it, the answer will become clear to me... but I wanted to hear what you smart people had to say!

[{aspiring_to_clarity}]

For me, the realization for myself would have been the point of that post.

From my pov, sending it to him would be a remnant of the wanting, not an expression of love. But, that is me and not you, and I don't know him from Adam.

Good luck figuring it out...sorry I wasn't much help!

(The post was great, btw)

[Angela]

Caren, what do you want to accomplish, honestly, by doing this?

(I am going to re-stress the word "honestly" here, because you may want to look a little deeper than your first response to that question.)

[carenkh]

Well, when I first thought of sending it to him, it would be so he'd read about his hot shoulder being against my back!

Then, it was... so I could share my process with him, let him know where I was. (and I didn't ask myself why)

I love the question, what do I want to accomplish? I'll think about that!

[carenkh]

Annnnddd... I want you to like me! I want you to like me!!

It's how I feel when I share a blog post with anyone: here's something I did: do you like it? Do you like me?

Before I get centered, I mean, that's how I feel.

[Angela]

Yeah, I get that. So here's this guy you say you like and admire very much, and what you are contemplating is generating, let's face it: temptation for this person. Temptation to for him to like you and want to put his hot shoulder against your back. Temptation for this guy whom you like very much, who is not available for a LLTMBR with you because he is in a LLTMBR with another woman. Also temptation for yourself -- to walk down Pain Avenue.

I temptation what you're really up to generating here? Is there something else you could generate that would better express your inspiring way of being?

By the way, I agree with Aspiring that it's a lovely blog post. I just don't think it would be a very lovely bomb to plant in this guy's marriage.

[carenkh]

Well, he knows how I feel already, that part wouldn't be news.

BUT, yeah - temptation. Yep. And no, I don't *really* want to generate that. Before the love/light thing? Yes, I did! Because it was about me feeling validated by him - if he's tempted by me, then I'm worthy. It had nothing to do with him at all!! And I knew that, but was willing to ignore it, to get that gremlin fed.

But, since that experience... no. That's not love, man. That has nothing to do with love.

Except there was this part of myself (I'll give ya three guesses which part! ) that was trying to convince me that sending this to him now, would let him know where I am with things. Why? So he'd see how awesome I was. Why? Well - that's actually for the heart connection. I would want him to get it, so he could feel that love, too.

BUT, the little gremliny part would probably override any of that.

[uberinquisitive]

Originally Posted by carenkh

Do I send this link to handsome married man?

You and the married man and his wife are adults. Whatever you do is your business.

But is this choice the best for your children?

If you have any doubts in regards to how this may affect your children, now or in the future - don't do it.

[Angela]

Originally Posted by carenkh

...if he's tempted by me, then I'm worthy. It had nothing to do with him at all!! And I knew that, but was willing to ignore it, to get that gremlin fed.

He is a really great Mirror Buddy!

How could you tempt yourself in a way that would leave you satisfied and fulfilled? What would be really tempting to you that would generously inspire you? Like: inviting an available attractive man for coffee, maybe? Signing up for eHarmony? Taking yourself out for a massage & facial? Having a day on your own to do nothing but read and eat chocolate? What would really tempt you, if you were not believing the thought, "I am worthless"?

[evacorges]

often we only ask advice because we don't like the answer we came up with for ourselves. I am expecting that to be the case here....

[dancer]

I feel for you, Carenkh. Was in a similar situation myself and it was really tough to walk away. He wasn't married, but there was someone...

If you send him a link, then you risk losing him as a friend. That would be a shame, especially as you have reached a point where you can love him without wanting him.

I really loved your blog post, will go back and read your other posts.

xoxo

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by evacorges

often we only ask advice because we don't like the answer we came up with for ourselves. I am expecting that to be the case here....

Really... I just like to hear everyone on here think. It's brought some clarity that I don't think I would have come to on my own. The "answer" is pretty much what I thought it would be.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by dancer

If you send him a link, then you risk losing him as a friend. That would be a shame, especially as you have reached a point where you can love him without wanting him

Thanks, dancer. But I still want him! He's hot! I just won't act on that, and I won't put myself in a position of... flirtatiousness with him.

@Angela - Hmmm... the boys will be with their Dads for a whole week next week, starting Sunday evening. How can I tempt myself? What a great question. I might take myself dancing, which I have wanted to do, but have been afraid to.

[evacorges]

Certainly a useful thing! I was just adding my 2c

[Angela]

Oh! How I wish I could be there to go out dancing with you!

By the way, have you ever tried English Country Line Dancing (contra dancing)? You can go as a single woman or with a bunch of friends, and I swear, it is SO much fun! For women and men. Kids, too!

[dancer]

Originally Posted by carenkh

Thanks, dancer. But I still want him! He's hot!

Perhaps, it is a matter of the universe giving you a hint of what is to come! Go out dancing, next week.

[Angela]

When you say you want him, what is it you want? To have sex? To be your man? To have him validate you by being your man? Just to look at his hotness and enjoy it? To feel connected to him? To keep him locked in your basement? What?

[carenkh]

I had a friend mention Contra dancing just the other day! She said, you get touched, you flirt, you hold eye contact. I've done it before & enjoyed it, but have been resistant because it's like... that's what divorced people here do, ya know? Oh, wait - that would be me, wouldn't it? How funny. I'll need to look at what that's about. I just don't want to be cliche... because I'm so much cooler than that!

I was thinking salsa dancing. LOL

I *do* think - there's a part of this that's about me getting in touch with that whole love vibe, ya know? I hadn't consciously practiced that in a while, and along came this man... It was like an "in". A reminder. Oh, yeah! Love! I remember that!

[Angela]

Well, I'm in a LLTMBR but never been married and I love contra dancing, and I loved it when I was single, too. It's fun because you don't get stuck with one partner, you keep switching up and dancing with everybody, all the men and all the women, and it's so fun to meet and re-meet, and make eye contact with everybody! That doesn't happen everywhere you go.

And the part where the guy takes you in his arms and swings you, looking deeply into your eyes... I LOVE that part! At first it made me feel self-conscious and blushy, but it became such fun practice to just be swung and look boldly, too!

Plus I think it helps you grow new brain synapses.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by carenkh

I had a friend mention Contra dancing just the other day! She said, you get touched, you flirt, you hold eye contact. I've done it before & enjoyed it, but have been resistant because it's like... that's what divorced people here do, ya know? Oh, wait - that would be me, wouldn't it?

You're divorced? How did that feel to go through that?

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

You're divorced? How did that feel to go through that?

Well - I wasn't really feeling a whole lot at the time, to be honest. Except: must get out, must get out, must get out, must get out, must get out...

It's been difficult looking at that while I do the work w/Angela, looking at how "I'm not here" impacted my marriage -- well, I'm not there!! We were both kind of "dead" in the relationship...

Right now, I'm glad to be not married any more. The boys miss everyone being together, that's for sure. That's hard to look at, as well.

Hey - why you makin' me FEEL all this stuff?

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by carenkh

Well - I wasn't really feeling a whole lot at the time, to be honest. Except: must get out, must get out, must get out, must get out, must get out...

It's been difficult looking at that while I do the work w/Angela, looking at how "I'm not here" impacted my marriage -- well, I'm not there!! We were both kind of "dead" in the relationship...

Right now, I'm glad to be not married any more. The boys miss everyone being together, that's for sure. That's hard to look at, as well.

Hey - why you makin' me FEEL all this stuff?

I just wanted you to think about what you would be putting the married man's wife and children through.

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by Dannyboy1

I just wanted you to think about what you would be putting the married man's wife and children through.

I *know*. That's one reason why I haven't been over at his house, calling all the time, etc. It's very easy to forget that when I'm on the spin cycle, though. It's all fantasy-land good sex and excitement in my head. I think "I'm not here" plays a part there, too - if I'm not here, I'm not having any kind of impact on those around me.

I do think, if he didn't have those boundaries he has... I'd be in trouble!

[Tigerlilly]

I loved the blog post. I love when something comes straight from the heart and feels so authentic. Still, like the others here I'd vote against sending him a link to it.

You said he already knows how you feel about him. Well, being told once is enough. If he wants to connect with you on any level, it's up to him to accept the invitation you already handed out.

And then, do you really would like him to come hither in any way at all, while he's still in a relationship, marriage or not? Hiding in the closet at least clashes with my idea of healthy self-respect and honest living, so I wonder whether or not you'd really find the happiness you're looking for in there.

Loving is a good thing, there's nothing wrong with love. It has already inspired you to write this beautiful blogpost. It will inspire you and energise you to do lots of wonderful things and change everyone's life in touch with yours for the better -including his- if it's truly love you feel.

In that know yourself, keep your feet on the ground.

Unconditional love is for saints and the truly enlightened among us; as long as you do not crave for the lifestyles of Buddha, Jesus, or Mother Theresa you might be sure that it's not expressing true unconditional love your craving for connection is all about.

Unconditional love needs nothing, not even connection, cause it knows it's always there. Unconditional love is the most self-sufficient state imaginable and one most of us only reach in flickers of inspiration.

Be clear about what it is you really got in mind focusing on this particular guy, which I believe is just good old-fashioned love, with breakfasts in bed and walks barefoot in the park, simply the whole bundle of imaginable earthly happiness.

Let go of this one guy in particular and focus on receiving your heart's desire instead. Like it was written in another thread, maybe the Universe will still bring you this one, maybe someone else, but in any case it'll bring you the right one for you if you only let it.

Although have to admit some dark side in me finds Angela's idea here a pretty appealing alternative as well...

Originally Posted by Angela

To keep him locked in your basement?

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by Tigerlilly

And then, do you really would like him to come hither in any way at all, while he's still in a relationship, marriage or not? Hiding in the closet at least clashes with my idea of healthy self-respect and honest living, so I wonder whether or not you'd really find the happiness you're looking for in there.

Well - not a secret one. When I told him how I was feeling - which was really, just a "when we hug, my thoughts go places" - I was hoping he'd say, "Wife and I have an open relationship! Why don't we get to know one another?" I don't really want to be someone's dirty secret.

Unconditional love is for saints and the truly enlightened among us; as long as you do not crave for the lifestyles of Buddha, Jesus, or Mother Theresa you might be sure that it's not expressing true unconditional love your craving for connection is all about.

I disagree. When I had a spiritual awakening - almost 20 years ago! - I made the decision then and there that what I wanted was to unconditionally love everyone. Everyone. That was my goal and my practice. In those ensuing years, I have sometimes forgotten that entirely! Ram Dass talks about cycling into and out of the drama of life, being on that wheel. Very true for me. But I circle back around, and remember: oh, yeah! Unconditional love! And my heart opens a bit more.

If it was only for saints and the already enlightened, why would I even try? Life is life, baby. I am already a saint. I love the practice of living a dedicated life, while in the world. Bodhichitta all the way. You do not have to be separate from the world to attain enlightenment.

Be clear about what it is you really got in mind focusing on this particular guy, which I believe is just good old-fashioned love, with breakfasts in bed and walks barefoot in the park, simply the whole bundle of imaginable earthly happiness.

Actually - that doesn't sound so great to me. That's not what I wanted. Before or after the light & love became apparent to me. I missed Angela's "What do you mean when you say you want him?" post - thanks for quoting it! And I haven't looked at the answer to that. But I didn't want that.

Let go of this one guy in particular and focus on receiving your heart's desire instead. Like it was written in another thread, maybe the Universe will still bring you this one, maybe someone else, but in any case it'll bring you the right one for you if you only let it.

Thank you for this. I am bristling at the thought that I'm looking for any "right one". Right now, I don't want to be in a LLTMBR - or, I don't think I do! But I wonder what I was looking for, with this? Lots to ponder. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Tigerlilly]

Originally Posted by carenkh

Actually - that doesn't sound so great to me. That's not what I wanted.

I am bristling at the thought that I'm looking for any "right one". Right now, I don't want to be in a LLTMBR - or, I don't think I do!

These thoughts really stuck out to me and had me frown.

You have shivers running down your spine when he's close, you say you want a true soul connection, to love unconditionally, but you do NOT want simple things like breakfast in bed and walks in the park??? Not with him or anyone else, cause you're not looking for the right one? (What I meant by "the right one" was someone who loves you and whom you love, so the two of you can be as happy as piggies in the mud together.)You don't want to be in a LLTMBR?

To be honest, I sense self-denial behind your words, and I also think it's a lack of self-esteem that has you want to love unconditionally and be able not to expect anything in return.

I think everyone on earth wants to be loved in return, to give and to receive love. It's as natural as needing air to breathe. And it is natural to have desires and wish to have those fulfilled within a relationship. Maybe you don't crave for cozy breakfasts in bed, maybe not with this guy, but you must crave for some of the simple stuff with someone, you are human.

And then what about this: What is less asked for from another human being, to ask for a breakfast in bed or to ask for true, open-hearted connection?

[Brien]

To be honest, it seems kinda creepy. Imagine if the genders were reversed in this situation, if Caren was a man coming onto a married woman in this way. Is it easier to see it as creepy then?

[carenkh]

Originally Posted by Brien

To be honest, it seems kinda creepy. Imagine if the genders were reversed in this situation, if Caren was a man coming onto a married woman in this way. Is it easier to see it as creepy then?

But I haven't come on to him, except in my mind.

I'm curious what, specifically, you find creepy.

[NightSpirit]

Caren, the person you need to look after most in this is yourself.

You have told this man you find him attractive and he has already told you he is not interested in pursuing any involvement with you. If he wanted to get to know you better, he would be doing that now on his own. To send him links about your love for him might be seen as annoying or pitiful and might hinder your friendship with him, especially if he shows it to his wife.

You may flatter him into some kind of involvement with you if you keep trying. The more things you do along these lines, the more you will become invested in having him and the lower your standards will become. If you are this far into him from brushings and hugs, what happens to your control if you do have sex? If all you want is romance, good times and sex without a relationship, plenty of single men want that also and nobody gets hurt.

If you really love this man, and I don't think you know him well enough to say that for sure, then don't bring him down or help him become what he doesn't want to be. Change what you do and start avoiding him and your feelings will go away in time.

[carenkh]

Thanks, NightSpirit - that's a great summary of this thread, and my process, so far!