Help with girls

[rho]

Hey everyone, I'm a first-time thread starter, long time lurker. I'll try to make this as succinct as possible.

I have an issue with girls. I'm 27, male, and I've never had a girlfriend. It's not that I haven't wanted to. I was very shy in my teenage years and early twenties, and only recently have I become somewhat outgoing. I've struggled with a mild speech impediment since I was 10 which contributed to my shyness. Anyway, long story short, there's a girl in one of my classes that I'm interested in, but when I talk to her (ie initiate conversation, answer her questions, etc) I become very nervous and have a difficult time making conversation. This kind of behavior is pretty standard for when I'm talking with a girl I find attractive. Put me next to someone I'm not attracted to, and I'm witty, chatty and relatively outgoing (initiating conversation for example). When I'm talking to someone I'm attracted to, it's a huge effort to just make conversation. I find myself thinking afterward "why did I say that? That's not like me".

I'm writing this to ask for help. Even if things don't work out with this girl, I'd still like to address this issue. I've made confidence-boosting changes in my life in the past month such as cutting out video games, jogging 3 times a week and doing calisthenics. These changes have helped with confidence, but I'm not sure it's the root of the problem. Anyway, any constructive input would be greatly appreciated.

Oh! Also, it has occurred to me that I might be too focused on the outcome, which could cause anxiety. Still, it is difficult to detach from wanting a positive outcome.

[AlexG]

I've been there in my early 20's.

I know what you are going through.

You won half the battle but addressing that you need to work on this. The rest is going to take alot of dedication and hard work.

You are on the the right track with exercising and improving.

I'm about to send you a pm with a list of website that has helped me. I hope you can find some value in them.

[Nicketas]

Learning to attract women is simple and it really only takes a few seconds to spark attraction. And no, not with any specific steps or techniques.

The real work is involved in developing your masculinity, maturity, emotions, natural personality, and sense of a mission in life, etc.

In other words, you have to integrate every part of your psychology and the only way to do that is to know exactly how, without any guessing games Whatsoever. Ever.

Here's a tip:

Practice saying "No" more often in your life. Go out one day and say no to YOURSELF and to OTHER PEOPLE about EVERYTHING YOU ENCOUNTER.

Center yourself.

Notice how you feel.

Then approach a hot girl the next day.

Pop Quiz: What is the one word that describes exactly what sexually attracts women all the time?

Hint: For Men, Beauty is always Attractive. For women it's _____

PM me for the answer. I'll only offer it if you actually want it.

And it does not involve wearing funny outfits, going to clubs, new age, or raising your arms to the sky on a ski slope (though I hear this can be fun).

[songwriter]

I'm been there... and I am there somehow cause I still never had a girlfriend. Though I've changed a lot.

Advices???.... to be honest, no advice received here for me has worked out. And I receive all kinds of advices, so many that I started feeling guilty for so many people trying to help. I actually started this kind of topics in this board "How to get a love partner?"

All I've got to say is fight, fight, try and try. Face it, persevere, and you are not gonna like the outputs and the situations, and the failures but do it anyway, if not you're gonna be sad of being in the same situation and not trying anything... unless you are never attracted to anyone...

And be patient.

[AndreiR]

hey, Rho!

I feel for you man. The best thing you can do is not to feel bad about your impediment, and act in spite of it. Remember the Scatman? He even turned it into an asset!

As for approaching girls, try to have a few 2 x 4 cards ready: write on card #1, "Hi! What's your name?", write your name on card #2, and write "what's your phone number?" on card #3. (and possibly "let's go for a coffee" on card #4, though I wouldn't -- better to call her for the coffee)
When you feel that you can't find your words in those key moments, pull up one of the cards. It has the added effect of being fun and trust me, you'll set yourself apart from other guys, which is always a positive in a girl's eyes.

Have fun with it!

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by rho

Hey everyone, I'm a first-time thread starter, long time lurker. I'll try to make this as succinct as possible.

I have an issue with girls. I'm 27, male, and I've never had a girlfriend. It's not that I haven't wanted to. I was very shy in my teenage years and early twenties, and only recently have I become somewhat outgoing.

I can tell you I was in the same boat when I was younger. What I did was go out with a buddy or two and they would pick out a girl and bet me I couldn't get her number. The more we did this, the better I got. Women love humor. Don't take it seriously if you don't come across. Just keep trying. After a while I got so good it was unbelievable. One of my favorite and easiest ways to get a woman's attention was to look at a woman until I caught her eye, then I'd look back and stick my tongue out. Makes them laugh every time. Seriously... it's just desensitization - getting yourself comfortable with talking and not worrying about how you come across.

[Angela]

I think you are right about your outcome insight. Is your current outcome to get a girlfriend? Or to get a date, or have sex, or something like that? What would success look like?

It's difficult to not fix on an outcome, yes, but what if you were to adjust your desired outcome to something that is inspiring both to you and to the girl? What I mean is "getting a girlfriend/getting a date/having sex" is not necessarily going to be all that moving for a woman, and my guess is that the desire is somewhat stressful for you, too, right? How about inventing an outcome that has everyone winning, everyone inspired? Like maybe: creating connection, being generous listening, presence, or generating love in the conversation (I mean Big Love, not just sexual or romantic love.) Just take it one conversation at a time -- if you successfully create connection or presence in one conversation, then you triumph! Actually, I fondly remember many conversation in which men have done that. And the reason I'm with my current sweetheart, Danger Man, is that his purpose is To Capture Intimacy and he certainly accomplished that with me the first time we spoke.

Does that help at all?

[rho]

Alex and Niketas: Thank you both for your PMs. Thanks also for the links.

AndreiR: Thanks for the ideas. I've improved my speech over the past few years that I hardly stutter at all now. I mainly have a difficult time saying my name, which generally holds me back from introducing myself to people. The cards idea was good, but I don't think it would help. Reading out loud can be problematic at times.

Dannyboy1: I really liked what you said, especially the idea of sticking my tongue out at a girl. What a great ice breaker!

Angela: I'll have to do some more soul searching. I think the thing in the back of my mind is "getting a girlfriend". I will definately try to alter my paradigm. Your post really resonated with me.

I saw that girl in class again today. We talked a bit, worked on some problems together, but nothing really clicked. Later, in the lab, me and my lab partner (who I am not interested in but is attractive) basically joked and laughed our way through the entire 3 hour lab. It was such a contrast, the ease of one interaction compared to the other. I am like that with everyone in the class except that one girl. It's frustrating. It's a pattern that's happened before.

[AndreiR]

I didn't mean reading the card, I meant just showing it to her

[rho]

Here's a quick update. Since the 22nd, I've tried what Angela suggested (shifting my focus to a different outcome). My new focus was just being friendly/creating a connection. I've also tried to view the whole thing as "she's not the only good looking girl, there are many others like her. If there's not a connection, no biggie".

I saw her at school again today. Neither of us made any effort to talk to the other. Then, after class, we were both getting on our scooters in the parking lot, and I asked her about her bookbag. She answered in a few sentences and that was that. I became really nervous, again. After wishing her a good weekend, I drove away, frustrated. My stomach was doing summersaults.

This was another frustrating experience, but whatever. It's only bad if I don't learn from it. Next week I will try to partner up with her in the lab, which should lend itself to some conversation. Sometimes I wonder if I'm trying with someone who isn't interested, but that outlook seems self-defeating. Comments?

[The Cloud]

Ask her out to do something as a person. Forget about defining your relationship with her and create one. This isn't about impressing her, it isn't about being funny or smart or confident. It isn't about any of that BS. What it's about is you being around somebody that you want to be around. That's it. Forget about getting a girlfriend, when you're ready for one I'm sure it'll happen. If you don't want to be around her, then don't do things with her. If you want to be around her, then do things with her, and don't worry about consequences because you can't avoid them anyways. The worst that can happen is that it won't be fun.

And you won't believe how much easier it is to ask a girl out when it's just for fun.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by rho

I saw her at school again today. Neither of us made any effort to talk to the other. Then, after class, we were both getting on our scooters in the parking lot, and I asked her about her bookbag. She answered in a few sentences and that was that. I became really nervous, again. After wishing her a good weekend, I drove away, frustrated. My stomach was doing summersaults.

You need to practice with strangers. It's like exercise. You build your skills while desensitizing yourself to your unfounded fears and doubts. Stop putting this person on a pedestal. That's the perfect way to drive her away. She's just a person like everyone else. There are many many many people like her... nice, pretty, etc... It's fun to feel the "somersaults" but if you're too goo goo, she's going to be weirded out. If she's pretty, she's probably got a lot more experience in talking to people than you do. She probably won't want to be a mentor, so you have to work on getting comfortable in your own skin. If you want to be gregarious, etc., you have to practice. And, not just on women. People in general. Lots of people.

[garentee]

Originally Posted by The Cloud

Ask her out to do something as a person. Forget about defining your relationship with her and create one. This isn't about impressing her, it isn't about being funny or smart or confident. It isn't about any of that BS. What it's about is you being around somebody that you want to be around. That's it. Forget about getting a girlfriend, when you're ready for one I'm sure it'll happen. If you don't want to be around her, then don't do things with her. If you want to be around her, then do things with her, and don't worry about consequences because you can't avoid them anyways. The worst that can happen is that it won't be fun.

And you won't believe how much easier it is to ask a girl out when it's just for fun.

As always great advice from The cloud.

[rho]

The Cloud: That is some great advice. People in my life have said something similar to me before, but I've always doubted it. I'll definately be trying to put it into practice this week. There are things I want to do (wait for her outside class, for example) but I hold back. It's become apparent to me that my current way of doing things isn't serving me. Instead, it's actually hindering me.

Dannyboy1: I have been practicing with many, many people, and I am steadily improving. Even since this winter, I've noticed huge improvements. It's encouraging, but it'd be a lot nicer to have surpassed these difficulties altogether. Do you have any tips on how to go about not putting this girl on a pedestal? I've been doing it for so long (not just with her) that it's like second nature now. I do it without thinking.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by rho

Dannyboy1: I have been practicing with many, many people, and I am steadily improving. Even since this winter, I've noticed huge improvements. It's encouraging, but it'd be a lot nicer to have surpassed these difficulties altogether. Do you have any tips on how to go about not putting this girl on a pedestal? I've been doing it for so long (not just with her) that it's like second nature now. I do it without thinking.

It's probably going to take you going through a relationship with someone else before you can understand she's not everything you think she is. You have to realize relationships are not all cotton candy and wet dreams. She's going to get pissed at you, you're going to get pissed at her (unless you put her on a pedestal in which case she'll walk all over you because she doesn't respect you when you can't see her faults), she's going to so stupid things and react unreasonably, you're going to act like an idiot... That's what you need to realize. She's got plenty of faults and so do you. Remember growing up with your family? Was it all rainbows and kittens?

I put this girl on a pedestal for years. Once I was in another relationship that was good, I looked back and thanked God I never got into a relationship with her. We would have killed each other. Does any of this help?

[rho]

Yes, it does help. However, I think you're right about needing to be in a relationship before reaching that realization. I've heard all those things you just said, but there's a difference between hearing it and actually knowing it. I'll try to focus on what you said, I guess. Maybe if I concentrate on it for long enough, it'll sink in.

I actually had a similar experience earlier this year. I met a cute, smart, funny girl at school and over time became attracted to her. Enter pedestal. However, it disintegrated once I realized that we had some serious incompatibilities. While I don't think we would have killed each other, it certainly wouldn't have been all puppy dogs and rainbows.

[songwriter]

You sound like me, not so long ago. All I can say again is that the road is gonna be long... it's a skill you have to gain. It's not something bout your personality but a skill like playing an elec guitar is.

This has been one of my greatest mistakes, focusing in me... what's wrong with me? maybe I'm not confident, good-looking, funny, outgoing, kind, smart???

That doesn't matter at all, it's only a skill. Actually the strangest kind of guys have girlfriends anyway, cause they got the skill, even if they're morons, cruel, silly, ugly, sheep-minded... it doesn't matter.

It's only trying and trying, and not looking inside yourself. And it's gonna be a long time filled with dissapointments. No trick works but experience. Those tricks are for people who already have had girlfriends and relationships but not for late starters.

[rho]

Today went a lot better. Over the course of the weekend, I kept my mind focused on what The Cloud and Dannyboy1 had said. Today, I followed her out to the coffee shop during a break and stood behind her in line. I initiated conversation and we chatted for a bit. It was very natural and normal. I feel like I've reached a peace about the whole thing, at least for today. My goal now is to keep this feeling going with every attractive girl I meet, instead of falling into the same old routine. I would still like to talk to this girl more, so we'll see how it goes.

[rho]

Well, things have been going better, way better than usual. The conversations between us have finally found their stride, and it's been smooth sailing for the past few days. I've found it difficult to focus on keeping things light and fun, without bringing the whole girlfriend thing into the picture. Still, I can feel my outlook changing. It's so much more natural to interact with good looking girls when I view them as ordinary people instead of potential girlfriends.

I found out today that the girl I had a hard time talking to is currently living with a boyfriend. In the hours after I found out, I felt a huge emotional release, and I've felt exhausted since. I interpreted this as a release of attachment to the outcome, which worried me since I thought I was done with attachments. I'd been interacting just fine, but apparently it was still there. Does anyone have any alternative interpretations of the emotional release, or tips on removing attachments?