"you're better when you're drunk"

[5IROB]

i wish i could disagree with that statement. so tonight i met up with some of my best friend's friends his work that were at a friend's house party a few nights ago. anyways we're just sitting in a room and everyone's just chilling and bantering random nonsense. i felt stifled as hell, i couldn't think of anything to add to the conversation. i then started to rationalize inside my head that they're just talking about random stuff that isn't of any importance so there's no point in talking. which I know is bullshit because when i'm drunk i'm a "free-flowing waterfall" . i dont run out of things to say and i am bringing the party to the social interaction.


you know how when people describe a person when they're drunk as "he/she is more aggressive/outgoing/happy", etc. people would probably say I'm a completely different person. i go from an extremely shy introvert to an extrovert.

I just don't know how to get into a drunk-like outgoing state when I'm sober.

The thing is, I just began drinking socially this year and before that I just assumed I'm a shy person and that's just the way I am genetically. However when I actually started drinking I realized it's really not the way I am and I should be outgoing and fun all the time. Those two qualities should be part of my core personality.

Anyway I think I have enough leverage on myself to stop reading self-help and actually take action and do something. . Tomorrow I will go to the mall and start my journey by saying "hello, how are you" to 20 different people to desensitize myself from social pressure and learn social skills. right now I am not really concerned about getting a girlfriend, just getting the social skills so I can feel comfortable in all social situations.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Just out of curiosity, if "they're just talking about random stuff that isn't of any importance" why do you want to be involved in the conversation? If when you are sober (and thinking clearly) you don't want to be involved in the conversation, why do you want to make changes to make you want to be involved in meaningless discussions?

[5IROB]

Originally Posted by SomeRandomGuy

Just out of curiosity, if "they're just talking about random stuff that isn't of any importance" why do you want to be involved in the conversation? If when you are sober (and thinking clearly) you don't want to be involved in the conversation, why do you want to make changes to make you want to be involved in meaningless discussions?

isn't all rapport/small talk with people meaningless? there is no significance to the conversation but it's just a way to pass the time away and have fun. while everyone was laughing I felt nervous because as time passed, i didn't say anything, and felt more and more compelled to start talking as time went on. I don't want to be the guy who just sits in the corner and doesn't say anything.

when I was buzzed/drunk I had no trouble just saying stuff that wasn't of any importance but did show people that i'm a fun/interesting guy.

So what should I say next time? "Sorry, I just don't want to get involved in this useless babble you guys are talking about"? I just want to liberate my inner social self because I really think that is my true self and when I rationalized that i shouldn't get involved in the conversation because it's meaningless, it's just an illusion that my ego constructed as an excuse for not talking.

[Steve Pavlina]

What you really need are more compatible friends who naturally want to discuss topics you consider interesting and important while you're sober.

Seeking out more compatible, growth-oriented friends will help you grow too.

Building social courage and learning to relax and have fun with people is great, but eventually you'll want to use those social skills to make friends who challenge you instead of hanging out with people who only care to discuss trivialities.

[SomeRandomGuy]

Steve basically said what I was getting ready to say, although he put it much better than I would have.

[Dannyboy1]

Originally Posted by Steve Pavlina

What you really need are more compatible friends who naturally want to discuss topics you consider interesting and important while you're sober.

Seeking out more compatible, growth-oriented friends will help you grow too.

Building social courage and learning to relax and have fun with people is great, but eventually you'll want to use those social skills to make friends who challenge you instead of hanging out with people who only care to discuss trivialities.

I know exactly what he's talking about. It's not the type of conversations that's the point. The point is he's much looser and funnier and isn't bogged down with mental filters when he drinks. THAT'S the feeling he wants to have sober. I know. I was the same way when I was younger. What I learned is, you have to put yourself in that frame of mind without the alcohol and the only way to do that is to practice joking around with random strangers as much as you possibly can. Just keeping in mind that it doesn't matter if you weird them out sometimes because you'll never see them again. Practice practice practice... After a while, it'll become a habit and you'll be able to throw yourself into that state of mind anytime.

[5IROB]

Yes, thanks for the advice Steve. What you say is definitely correct, but I just want to be able to vibe with anyone in any situation. Just being able to have a fun interaction with the checkout girl at the supermarket, the bank teller, some weird-looking guy on the bus, an 80 year old woman at the park, is a skill I want to have and will accomplish by pushing past my fears and trying to start a conversation with anyone I come into contact with throughout my day.

[driven1]

Originally Posted by 5IROB

Just being able to have a fun interaction with the checkout girl at the supermarket, the bank teller, some weird-looking guy on the bus, an 80 year old woman at the park, is a skill I want to have and will accomplish by pushing past my fears and trying to start a conversation with anyone I come into contact with throughout my day.

Yeah, speaking as a former shy fellow myself, you're spot on: this is a skill that makes daily life so much more enjoyable. It just takes practice to develop, as with any skill. Start easy. Start with "hired guns" -- bartenders, servers, bank tellers... basically any service people that are paid to interact with you. They chat with people all day and can easily help carry the conversation. Move up to strangers in the checkout line, people next to you at the bar, etc. Work your way up. People are fun!

This may be something for later, as it took me a WHILE before I got to this point, but I wanted to share: I take the frame that I'm going to try to make every person I interact with that day feel a little better about themselves. Everybody. From the fast food cashier I'll never see again to my boss who I see almost daily. It's not about me, it's about them. But, being a Nice Guy at heart, it makes me feel really good about myself, because I'm putting real smiles on a lot of faces, turning people's bad days into good ones. (It's gotta be genuine, though, or you'll come across as condescending and get a negative reaction. Also, attractive women will often assume you're just trying to get into their pants, so I generally change things up and "mess with" them in a playful way -- try to get them to verbally "spar" with me.) I couple this overt "niceness" with alpha body-language, subcommunicating that I'm strong on the inside, that the kindness is FOR THEM, not just to get people to like me.

(I've noticed that most people do the opposite: they go through the day trying to feel better about THEMSELVES, often by hacking on other people, stealing others' self-esteem to add to their own, or by bragging/promoting themselves, looking for validation from other people. When you let this behavior go, you're subcommunicating that "My self-esteem is already at '10'. I don't need to steal yours." Conversely, in general, the more a person insults others or promotes themselves, the lower their own self-esteem actually is.)

There's a lot more to it, but it's basically: Stop defending or promoting your own self-esteem and start building other people's. I hope that makes sense, cuz it's a pretty abstract concept. Anyhow, I've been doing this consciously for two months or so, and the results have been very positive.

[Holistic Star]

Originally Posted by driven1

I take the frame that I'm going to try to make every person I interact with that day feel a little better about themselves. Everybody.

That's fantastic. I really like your attitude! Thanks for the reminder!

[MaxLight]

Excellant post driven1.

Also going to the mall as you suggest yourself 5IROB to talk to people is a good pro-active way of taking on this problem. I would be interested to hear how you get on. Did you read the book "the game" btw or in general any books/videos etc from the pickup community. That is exactly the type of exercise they recommend to give you greater confidence talking to girls.

At any rate I find most of the time if I clam up in a conversation it's because I care too much about what the other person thinks of me, or...
what I think the other person thinks of me.

Usually if I clam up it's because my natural flow of conversation has been interrupted as I become momentarily conscious of the other persons thoughts about me. Or I think "I'm doing well here, better not mess up" and that's it, I'm then in my mind and not myself and my conversation stops flowing.

The solution is not to care what other people think of you. I have worked on this trait a lot recently, it really is a cornerstone of awareness, and I have no trouble talking to people now.

The steps you and driven1 say are both good for learning to not care about what other people think of you. One other thing I found helpful is to think about or meditate upon the idea that other people are just as scared of you as you are of them, everybody wants YOUR approval...and anybody who doesn't will appear extremely confident and relaxed and you'll be able to talk to them anyway.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

[moriez]

Originally Posted by 5IROB

I just want to be able to vibe with anyone in any situation. Just being able to have a fun interaction with the checkout girl at the supermarket, the bank teller, some weird-looking guy on the bus, an 80 year old woman at the park, is a skill I want to have and will accomplish by pushing past my fears and trying to start a conversation with anyone I come into contact with throughout my day.

I can indentify with your issue a 100%. Im curious to know how you progress on this. Keep us posted.

[Nasir]

Don't worry about being a "social butterfly." There is no need to talk all the time, and there are good reasons not to.

Example: When someone is expressing a degrading opioion of someone else, and others start to join in, you'll feel inclinded to express negativity also. But you avoid the heard mentality, and keep your mouth shut on the subject.

Let others talk. Listen. Talk only when you have something to say. Don't look for things to talk about. Empty your mind, & ideas will come on their own.

[Elrond]

Originally Posted by Nasir

Empty your mind, & ideas will come on their own.

Brilliant. If you worry too much, it will just close the floodgates of creativity.